How strong is Nero?

[ef9dante_oSsshea]

No disrespect but to think Nero is dmc3 Dante level is ludicrous

Dmc3 Dante at full power would be one shotted even by stamina drained and weakened Dante and Vergil at the end of their fight in 5

My guage on how strong nero is at the end of v is around fruit urizen level

But he has pure raw strength as a boost in that singular category

 

[Vergil95]

No disrespect but to think Nero is dmc3 Dante level is ludicrous

Dmc3 Dante at full power would be one shotted even by stamina drained and weakened Dante and Vergil at the end of their fight in 5

My guage on how strong nero is at the end of v is around fruit urizen level

But he has pure raw strength as a boost in that singular category

I don't thinks so, dmc 3 dante was as strong as dmc 3 mundus, it was stated in the dmc 5 novel... In the novel mundus say that he was only able to defeat vergil because he was weakened by his confrontation whit dante, but if Vergil was at full power he would have manage to kill mundus easily... So dmc 3 dante is powerful...

You are giving to much power to dt Nero, remember that nero only defeated regular boss in both dmc 4 and dmc 5, he never faced strong foe as the savior, mundus or full power vergil, he was only able to stand against vergil because vergil was severally weakened by dante in dmc 5 and because vergil was holding back on purpose... Also every time nero was facing a stronger opponent like the savior and urizen, was always defeated and almost killed and needed dant help to get away of near death situatiin

He cannot be as powerful as fruit urizen, since in his normal state Nero only manage to deliver a scratch at first form urizen, whit dt he only gained more power but its ridiculous to think that he surpassed sin dt dante and fruit urizen...

I think that dmc 5 dt nero is as powerful as dmc 3 dante at the end of mission 20... In dmc 3 dante faced even more stronger foe than Nero in dmc 5... Also nero had to use devil breaker to reach a decent level of power while dmc 3 dante doesn't need anything to defeat his enemy only his weapon... Whitout the devil bringer and devil breaker nero would not have been able to defeat any of the boss in dmc 4 and 5...

Nero had reached a complete dt on dmc 5 like dante in dmc 3, so they are on equal power...

 

[ef9dante_oSsshea]

First off Dante in DMC3 had a dt based on devil arm

Nero in 5 had no devil arm or bringer , his dt is superior to Dante in DMC3

Secondly the Devs stated clearly , Nero post DMC4 is equal to Dante post DMC3

So unless in the gap Nero stayed the exact same strength since the end of 4 , and the new Dt gave him no power

Then he is not on par with Dante in 3 and i and loads more believe him to be way above Dante in 3 , in 5

Maybe not urizen fruit level but above Dante DMC4 for sure in my and others opinion

Saying he is dmc3 level is a massive lowball



I respect your opinion, but I disagree whole heartedly

 

[Vergil95]

First off Dante in DMC3 had a dt based on devil arm

Nero in 5 had no devil arm or bringer , his dt is superior to Dante in DMC3

Secondly the Devs stated clearly , Nero post DMC4 is equal to Dante post DMC3

So unless in the gap Nero stayed the exact same strength since the end of 4 , and the new Dt gave him no power

Then he is not on par with Dante in 3 and i and loads more believe him to be way above Dante in 3 , in 5

Maybe not urizen fruit level but above Dante DMC4 for sure in my and others opinion

Saying he is dmc3 level is a massive lowball



I respect your opinion, but I disagree whole heartedly

This are just opinion and assumption... Nothing official...
But for me i seriously doubt Nero is near dmc 4 dante, o dmc 1 dante power level...

Just different opinion of course

 

[Carlos]

I don't thinks so, dmc 3 dante was as strong as dmc 3 mundus, it was stated in the dmc 5 novel... In the novel mundus say that he was only able to defeat vergil because he was weakened by his confrontation whit dante, but if Vergil was at full power he would have manage to kill mundus easily... So dmc 3 dante is powerful...

Not.... quite. Mundus in DMC1 (original DMC) is a bit more powerful than Vergil in DMC1. You killed DMC1 Vergil, not once but twice. By the end of DMC5, we all learn that Nero is about 5 times more powerful than Dante and Vergil combined. I mean, he zaps into the battle between the two, HOLDS both with his WINGS for pete's sake. He even slaps Dante with that same wing.

You are giving to much power to dt Nero, remember that nero only defeated regular boss in both dmc 4 and dmc 5, he never faced strong foe as the savior, mundus or full power vergil, he was only able to stand against vergil because vergil was severally weakened by dante in dmc 5 and because vergil was holding back on purpose... Also every time nero was facing a stronger opponent like the savior and urizen, was always defeated and almost killed and needed dant help to get away of near death situatiin

He cannot be as powerful as fruit urizen, since in his normal state Nero only manage to deliver a scratch at first form urizen, whit dt he only gained more power but its ridiculous to think that he surpassed sin dt dante and fruit urizen...

This was all made redundant and minuscule by the end of DMC5. If Nero had unlocked this new form of his (the one in the boss battle epilogue), he would have been able to fight Urizen by himself, but neither Dante or Vergil understood how powerful Vergil was, so they treated him like a little demon that don't understand.

Keep in mind, the form that Vergil took in DMC5 Boss Battle (epilogue) was semi-demon. Pay attention to the battle, rather than the scene. He goes in and out of Demon form quite easily.

Vergil even acknowledged knowing that his son is as powerful or even more powerful than both of them combined. He even said they'll fight one day, and said he'll beat Nero. Keep preachin' Vergil, because your son just slapped Dante a new one. And, we're talking about the Dante with these kinds of powers...

I think that dmc 5 dt nero is as powerful as dmc 3 dante at the end of mission 20... In dmc 3 dante faced even more stronger foe than Nero in dmc 5... Also nero had to use devil breaker to reach a decent level of power while dmc 3 dante doesn't need anything to defeat his enemy only his weapon... Whitout the devil bringer and devil breaker nero would not have been able to defeat any of the boss in dmc 4 and 5...

Nero had reached a complete dt on dmc 5 like dante in dmc 3, so they are on equal power...

So, I'll just say this: Nero is stronger than Vergil (holding back or not), and Dante combined.

 

[Vergil95]

Not.... quite. Mundus in DMC1 (original DMC) is a bit more powerful than Vergil in DMC1. You killed DMC1 Vergil, not once but twice. By the end of DMC5, we all learn that Nero is about 5 times more powerful than Dante and Vergil combined. I mean, he zaps into the battle between the two, HOLDS both with his WINGS for pete's sake. He even slaps Dante with that same wing.

This was all made redundant and minuscule by the end of DMC5. If Nero had unlocked this new form of his (the one in the boss battle epilogue), he would have been able to fight Urizen by himself, but neither Dante or Vergil understood how powerful Vergil was, so they treated him like a little demon that don't understand.

Keep in mind, the form that Vergil took in DMC5 Boss Battle (epilogue) was semi-demon. Pay attention to the battle, rather than the scene. He goes in and out of Demon form quite easily.

Vergil even acknowledged knowing that his son is as powerful or even more powerful than both of them combined. He even said they'll fight one day, and said he'll beat Nero. Keep preachin' Vergil, because your son just slapped Dante a new one. And, we're talking about the Dante with these kinds of powers...

So, I'll just say this: Nero is stronger than Vergil (holding back or not), and Dante combined.

Nero was able to slap dante and vergil because they were both tired, since they fight each other before in a mortal battle, vergil was holding back during mission 20 in dmc 5... Infact as soon as dante and vergil get on their feat they were easy able to punch Nero in the face...

Nero just entered during the middle of a battle just like jester did during dmc 3 in mission 12, jester was able to defeat both dante and vergil and also lady all by himself but only because they were weakened, and jester is probably one of the weakest demon in dmc 3, but I m nt going as far as to say that he is more powerful than dante and vergil combined only because he defeated them in dmc 3 mission 12, it was only lucky to find them weakened by their confrontation ... Nero did the same thing, he entered during the middle of their battle and was able to defeat both dante and vergil because they were not at full power..

For me Nero could be as powerful as dmc 1 dante start

Also i was talking about dmc 3 vergil and dmc 3 mundus... In dmc 5 mundus say that vergil would have defeated him easyli if he was not been weakened by the battle whit dante during mission 20, this is possible because mundus didn't restore all his power at end of dmc 3 but only half of it... By the event of dmc 1 he manage to restore his full power that's why he his more powerful than nelo angelo

Vergil aknowlaged nero power but never say That he is more powerful, nero probably had a lot of inner power but for now is not even comparable to Dante and vergil...
It's like goku and Gohan, goku always aknowlaged his son power even during the frieza saga when goahan power were not even comparable to goku super sayan power

 

[Foxtrot94]

but I m nt going as far as to say that he is more powerful than dante and vergil combined only because he defeated them in dmc 3 mission 12, it was only lucky to find them weakened by their confrontation

Just a little correction (that doesn't have anything to do with the point you were making but still). That wasn't luck. Arkham planned all of it from the beginning. Guiding both Vergil and Dante (the latter in Jester form) into the circular chamber so that they could battle and weaken each other was all planned.

 

[Vergil95]

Just a little correction (that doesn't have anything to do with the point you were making but still). That wasn't luck. Arkham planned all of it from the beginning. Guiding both Vergil and Dante (the latter in Jester form) into the circular chamber so that they could battle and weaken each other was all planned.

Yeah true, it was all arkham master plan, thank you for the correction

 

[Carlos]

Nero was able to slap dante and vergil because they were both tired, since they fight each other before in a mortal battle, vergil was holding back during mission 20 in dmc 5... Infact as soon as dante and vergil get on their feat they were easy able to punch Nero in the face...

*snorts* It's supposed to be tongue-in-cheek, it was supposed to be funny. It went over my head, too, but that's what it was intended to be.

Nero just entered during the middle of a battle just like jester did during dmc 3 in mission 12, jester was able to defeat both dante and vergil and also lady all by himself but only because they were weakened, and jester is probably one of the weakest demon in dmc 3, but I m nt going as far as to say that he is more powerful than dante and vergil combined only because he defeated them in dmc 3 mission 12, it was only lucky to find them weakened by their confrontation ... Nero did the same thing, he entered during the middle of their battle and was able to defeat both dante and vergil because they were not at full power..

I think that was the plan by Arkham. So, I discount that whole scene. But once they got the footing, and got the feel for Arkham, they kicked his ass. (lol, what'd you expect, Arkham?)

For me Nero could be as powerful as dmc 1 dante start

T'was what I was saying!

Also i was talking about dmc 3 vergil and dmc 3 mundus... In dmc 5 mundus say that vergil would have defeated him easyli if he was not been weakened by the battle whit dante during mission 20, this is possible because mundus didn't restore all his power at end of dmc 3 but only half of it... By the event of dmc 1 he manage to restore his full power that's why he his more powerful than nelo angelo

I know you were talking about DMC3 Vergil/Mundus. I'm saying that Dante DMC1 killed Mundus at near full power, making Nero just as powerful, if not/or more powerful - just as I was saying in my original post.

Vergil aknowlaged nero power but never say That he is more powerful, nero probably had a lot of inner power but for now is not even comparable to Dante and vergil...
It's like goku and Gohan, goku always aknowlaged his son power even during the frieza saga when goahan power were not even comparable to goku super sayan power

You got a point there. By the time Goku and gang returned from the chamber, Gohan got even more powerful than intially thought, I think you're onto something there.

 

[Vergil95]

I know you were talking about DMC3 Vergil/Mundus. I'm saying that Dante DMC1 killed Mundus at near full power, making Nero just as powerful, if not/or more powerful - just as I was saying in my original post.

Dante was able to defeat mundus because he used the sparda dt and later he was able to defeat him thanks to Trish help despite mundus was heavely weakened .. I don't think that dante would have been able to defeat mundus alone...

I don't think that dmc 5 nero would be able to defeat mundus at full power without someone help

 

[Foxtrot94]

But once they got the footing, and got the feel for Arkham, they kicked his ass.

Bro. Kicked his ass? After they "got the footing", Arkham easily dodged their combined execution attack and sweep-kicked all 3 of them and tossed them out of the rising platform like ragdolls.

Vergil95's point stands. Battling weakened characters ain't a good metric to judge one's strength. A full strength Dante or Vergil would have destroyed Arkham just like a full strength Sin DT DMC5 Dante or Vergil would wipe the floor with DT Nero.

 

[Carlos]

Bro. Kicked his ass? After they "got the footing", Arkham easily dodged their combined execution attack and sweep-kicked all 3 of them and tossed them out of the rising platform like ragdolls.

Maybe I remember that ending a little differently. [EDIT: Yeah, embedded below, at the 9:35 mark.] Hm. I guess he left as the joker character, and allowed them to open the demon world. And lady killed him after. I think Arkham got off easy on that part, but whatever... he got the worst end of the stick when lady shot him point blank.

Vergil95's point stands. Battling weakened characters ain't a good metric to judge one's strength. A full strength Dante or Vergil would have destroyed Arkham just like a full strength Sin DT DMC5 Dante or Vergil would wipe the floor with DT Nero.

And t'was my point, too. And they actually did, eventually do it at full power when Arkham turned into what he thought was the true power of sparda. He misused it, yes, but does not change the fact.

 

[Goldsickle]

As shown with Lady, humans can train hard enough to take on demons and may be able to go toe-to-toe with Dante, even for a short while.

Before Nero awakens his Devil Bringer and Devil Trigger, I'd say he's already a powerful human, at least at Lady's level.
Dante shrugs off getting stabbed but as Nero shows in a cutscene of Mission 6 in DMC4, getting stabbed is implied to be a serious thing and even he was surprised that his stab wound healed.

He is already strong as a normal human and will only get stronger with completely embracing his Sparda bloodline and getting a full Devil Trigger.
Does that make him stronger than Dante and Vergil?
That's hard to say but him being a strong human fighter by default is worth mentioning.

The thing that bothered me is that we never get to see human Credo in action.
Being the general or something for the Order knights, I thought he'd be at least above Lady's level as a normal human.

 

[Vergil95]

As shown with Lady, humans can train hard enough to take on demons and may be able to go toe-to-toe with Dante, even for a short while.

Only because dante allowed them to go toe to toe whit him... He would have oblitered lady whit a finger in dmc 3 if he wanted

 

[Goldsickle]

He would have oblitered lady whit a finger in dmc 3 if he wanted

Totally not the case, due to the fact that Lady was an actual boss fight and not just in cutscenes.

Whenever possible, the series tries to translate the boss's threat level into gameplay.
Like how Urizen can be overwhelming to a new player with zero upgrades or how Arkham got a HP buff, to make it necessary for Vergil to step in and pitch in the damage.

In gameplay, Lady's threat level is what you'd expect.
You can totally defeat her but you can get yourself killed if you get careless and underestimate her too much.

 

[Vergil95]

Totally not the case, due to the fact that Lady was an actual boss fight and not just in cutscenes.

Whenever possible, the series tries to translate the boss's threat level into gameplay.
Like how Urizen can be overwhelming to a new player with zero upgrades or how Arkham got a HP buff, to make it necessary for Vergil to step in and pitch in the damage.

In gameplay, Lady's threat level is what you'd expect.
You can totally defeat her but you can get yourself killed if you get careless and underestimate her too much.

Gameplay doesn't count in most of the cases, even a normal enemy can kill you if you get careless but doesn't mean they are equal to Dante... Gameplay cannot be taken in consideration...

Infact in every cutscene in dmc 3 dante simply play whit lady, he laugh when fighting her and simply walk or play game, even after her boss battle dante simply walk and doesn't shoot her... This mean that lady prove zero treath to him

 

[Goldsickle]

Gameplay doesn't count in most of the cases,

"Most", "some" but not "all".
Like I said, there's a reason Lady's encounter is a boss fight and not just a cutscene.

Infact in every cutscene in dmc 3 dante

Not all.
Lady shot Dante's head up close without Dante dodging and based on how ****ed Dante was, he didn't see it coming.
Lady's ability to deflect bullets with her gun is on both cutscene and gameplay, where she will nullify Dante's shots by firing back during the battle with her.
Sure, you can start nitpicking some story/gameplay inconsistencies left and right but I think the Lady examples are quite fair.

even after her boss battle

Well, duh.
You just depleted her HP, so of course she was weak from all that.

 

[Vergil95]

"Most", "some" but not "all".
Like I said, there's a reason Lady's encounter is a boss fight and not just a cutscene.


Not all.
Lady shot Dante's head up close without Dante dodging and based on how ****ed Dante was, he didn't see it coming.
Lady's ability to deflect bullets with her gun is on both cutscene and gameplay, where she will nullify Dante's shots by firing back during the battle with her.
Sure, you can start nitpicking some story/gameplay inconsistencies left and right but I think the Lady examples are quite fair.


Well, duh.
You just depleted her HP, so of course she was weak from all that.

The developer just want her to be a boss fight but not because she is equal to Dante... That boss battle cannot be take in consideration... Even jaster boss fight can put you in danger but this doesn't mean he is equal to Dante, since jester is probably the weakest demon in dmc 3... Cerberus himself can kill you easyli but we can clearly see in the after boss baltte cutscene that dante didn't even brake a sweath to defeat him... If gameplay had to be taken in consideration than dante should be able to destroy every weak enemy whit just a single shoot or he should be able to destroy every wall whit his sword... Yamato should be able to cut trought everything and kill every enemy whit just a single hit but that doesn't happen for obvious reason, gameplay it's meant to be played, some part if not most part cannot be taken in consideration while talking about story and character power...

Yeay lady shoot dante in the head but dante didn't even care about that, he simply didn't think that lady would have shoot him because if she shoot him she would have fall, thats why he didn't se the shoot coming... Dante simply took the shoot but doesn't care about it, he could have taken another thousand shoot in the head... After the shoot dante was upset because he was trying to save lady and she shoot him instead of thanking him, not because the bullet was a treath to him...

The fact that dante and lady bullet touch each other is probably because dante shoot the bullet in a manner that they cannot kill lady but only touch her oncoming bullet instead...

In this cutscene is clear as day that dante is far superior to lady and only joke whit her... Lady fight to kill dante while dante is simply playing game whit her...
Also in this same cutscene you can clearly see that lady shoot first and than dante shoot at the bullet she is firing...

Also gameplay doesn't count because as I was saying before even a simple enemy can kill you in 3 hit at the start of the game, but we clearly see that dante can take many attack from enemy whitout even bothering it in the first game cutscene...

In the anime lady and trish combined power were not even able to scretch Abigail, they need dante help to kill him, so Its pretty ridiculous to say that lady power are equal to Dante or that she can put him in danger, since there is no single moment in cutscene in Wich lady put up a treat to Dante...
Also in the anime Trish and Lady fight but you can clearly see that Trish is playing game whit her and doesn't want to kill her while lady put all she have to fight Trish... So lady is not even comparable to Trish, let alone dante...

dante face off against stronger opponent in dmc 3 while lady only fight simply demon and always need dante help to defeat more powerful demon like in the anime...

We are comparing a simple human beings whit the legendary son of sparda dante, a being who was able to defeat opponent like mundus the demon king, Abigail and argosax, this last one whitout even breaking a sweat... For how strong lady can be for a human, there Is no way that he can be put in dante league, or that she can even prove a treat to him, the only enemy that were a treat to Dante in the entire series were mundus, vergil, and abigail, the last one only because dante get careless against him...
Lady is just zero treat to Dante

 

[Goldsickle]

not because she is equal to Dante

I never said she was Dante's "equal".
Don't put words in my mouth.

We are comparing a simple human beings whit the legendary son of sparda dante,

You just can't stop yapping because you're a hypocrite who told me we should respect other people's opinions but here you are, always flagging me whenever I say something you disagree and won't rest until you have changed my mind with poor arguments.
You saw Lady and Dante's interactions in one way, I saw it differently.

End of story.

I will continue walking the earth believing that Lady is a considerable threat to Dante.
Deal with it.

 

[Vergil95]

I never said she was Dante's "equal".
Don't put words in my mouth.


You just can't stop yapping because you're a hypocrite who told me we should respect other people's opinions but here you are, always flagging me whenever I say something you disagree and won't rest until you have changed my mind with poor arguments.
You saw Lady and Dante's interactions in one way, I saw it differently.

End of story.

I will continue walking the earth believing that Lady is a considerable threat to Dante.
Deal with it.

OH my God dude are you serious? I was just saying my point of view like normale people do, but as soon as someone share his opinion you always went mad, you are out of you mind, I'm going to report what you just write because you always offend without motive...

In my previous post I simply say what I think about lady and dante comparison whitout offending you but you started offending me out of nowhere, I think the other group member can confirm what I'm saying....

I can't belive what I just read, dude relax you are too overdramatick