General DMC 5 Discussion

[Vergil95]

Vergil is pretty cool now, I like him as he look... Also twins brothers change tought time in real life, just take a look as some real life twin

 

[tehrugger]

Vergil is pretty cool now, I like him as he look... Also twins brothers change tought time in real life, just take a look as some real life twin

I'm pretty sure identical twins stay identical throughout their lives. Unless one gets plastic surgery or something.

I suppose the "corruption changed Vergil's face" thing is acceptable.

 

[ef9dante_oSsshea]

Who else would like to see Vergil create or give Nero an actual devil arm in the future

Not yamato, but maybe another katana

 

[tehrugger]

I'd like to see Vergil get a Devil Sword Vergil.

 

[ef9dante_oSsshea]

Lmao , you still on that eh

 

[Vergil95]

I'm pretty sure identical twins stay identical throughout their lives. Unless one gets plastic surgery or something.

I suppose the "corruption changed Vergil's face" thing is acceptable.

No they didn't, they look similar but still change during life since people tend to have different life and different experience that shape your body, vergil and Dante look similar but different in dmc 5 because their life shaped them... Real life twins change
Just look at the olsen twins, they were identical as teen, but now they are different even if similar...

Also vergil and dante are very similar almost identical in dmc 5 but expression and different life shaped their face
Look what happened if you change their respective hair... I mean they are almost identical but vergil look a bit more younger whitout The beard while dante look a bit older, but in the end they are almost identical

Also I know real life twins in my town I know them since I was a kid and now they look different, one of them as a long beard, the other had none, they are different in look and expression in face and even the face is a bit diffent now...

 

[ef9dante_oSsshea]

Am I the only one who thinks Dante rocks the slicked back hair better than Vergil in that last pic

And it suits him lol

 

[Goldsickle]

My nephew is always asking random questions about everything.
He asked me how come Vergil doesn't have a beard.

 

[Goldsickle]

Payline forces lying down enemies to stand up.
On one hand, it's annoying because it means Scudo Angelos can resume guarding but on the other, it forces an Antenora to snap out of its "revenge mode" whenever it's knocked back.

 

[Vergil95]

Vergil never grew a beard, so he probably shaved every time... Also vergil is a more "clean" and precise person than dante XD , probably dante didn t care about his look to much while I think vergil is the opposite

 

[berto]

Took me a little bit to get used to the photorealistic style

It wasn't the photorealistic look that I disliked. Aside from Dante's leg looking noticeably too short the implementation of photorealism isn't bad.

I've read somewhere that Itsuno was asked about that

It was Prd. Walker. He mentioned that they wanted to make it look like his time in hell had changed him. I read that a while back. It's not that, either. I don't dislike it because there was no explanation to it or anything like that. That they slip one by us or that it might've been a thoughtless move.

As I said in another thread, he looks like a guy dressed up like Vergil.

That's one way of looking at it. To me, though, it's like they took Vergil's look from DMC3 and went for that while they took Dante's look in DMC4 and went for that and they just don't add up.

I'm pretty sure identical twins stay identical throughout their lives. Unless one gets plastic surgery or something.
I suppose the "corruption changed Vergil's face" thing is acceptable.

No, it's true. Studies have shown that identical twins can change drastically over the years. Smoking, drinking and drug habits, diets, health, exercice and a number of other external factors can change a twin's look. These changes can range from curls of the hair, height, weight or even more drastic characteristics. Though it's common enough to be a thing it doesn't happens to every set of twins or triplets. Some change drastically, others just enough to be noticeable and others remain 'identical.'


My issue isn't with the why, the how or that's it might've been for no reason. I don't like that they did it at all because it removed so much from the characters, the 'poetry,' if you will, of them being identical twins.

There was a lot of romance to the fact that they were identical. In terms of narrative and symbolism it a added a great deal to their characters and to perceptions of the other. It added a layer of depth to them, which is gone now. I know it doesn't count but in my head I always wondered if when they each look at themselves in the mirror they saw the other rather than themselves. Well, no, the answer is no, no they don't and if they did they don't anymore. You can't look in the mirror, take you hand and move your hair to see that part of yourself that is long gone.

Adding to that, you can make the case that since they were identical twins they were once one and the same person, one soul split in two. Monozygotic twins are one sperm and one egg that from two babies. During the process the cell divides into two sometimes you even have twins separated at a different, further, stage of development. Twins inside of twins is a thing. Thus the argument that they were once one.

I should probably clarify about that whole 'part of yourself' I was referring to two paragraphs up.
This is an excerpt from the Trinity of Fates DVD Book:
- The battle where Dante and Vergil place themselves on opposite sides is a battle with one's other self. Dante and Vergil are each other's shadows, and at the same time each other's light. The relationship between Dante and Vergil is such that each of their selves are formed due to the other's existence.

As it states there, Dante was Vergil's other's other self and Vergil was Dante's. How they had the same face added to that. When confronting, it wasn't their brother they were each facing but rather themselves. Now, not so much, not really. Now it's clear who is who, hair in whatever direction. Before, since they are each other's shadow, the argument could be made that when they fought they weren't trying to kill the other; Dante wasn't trying to kill his brother, he was trying to kill that part of himself he hates and Vergil wasn't trying to kill his brother but rather that part of himself he hates. Both are, were, two sides of the same coin. The one who embraces his humanity and the one who embraces his demonic heritage and both hating the other aspect of themselves. Opposites but the same. The other's light and shadow. Well, hey took that out. I hate that they took something so symbolic and so damn near defining out of them. You can argue that a lot of the things I said still apply, even if they no longer have the same face, but it's not as meaningful anymore. It's not as poetic. Besides, they don't even look that much alike anymore. If I didn't know they were brothers I'd never would've guessed for myself.

 

[Vergil95]

It wasn't the photorealistic look that I disliked. Aside from Dante's leg looking noticeably too short the implementation of photorealism isn't bad.


It was Prd. Walker. He mentioned that they wanted to make it look like his time in hell had changed him. I read that a while back. It's not that, either. I don't dislike it because there was no explanation to it or anything like that. That they slip one by us or that it might've been a thoughtless move.


That's one way of looking at it. To me, though, it's like they took Vergil's look from DMC3 and went for that while they took Dante's look in DMC4 and went for that and they just don't add up.


No, it's true. Studies have shown that identical twins can change drastically over the years. Smoking, drinking and drug habits, diets, health, exercice and a number of other external factors can change a twin's look. These changes can range from curls of the hair, height, weight or even more drastic characteristics. Though it's common enough to be a thing it doesn't happens to every set of twins or triplets. Some change drastically, others just enough to be noticeable and others remain 'identical.'


My issue isn't with the why, the how or that's it might've been for no reason. I don't like that they did it at all because it removed so much from the characters, the 'poetry,' if you will, of them being identical twins.

There was a lot of romance to the fact that they were identical. In terms of narrative and symbolism it a added a great deal to their characters and to perceptions of the other. It added a layer of depth to them, which is gone now. I know it doesn't count but in my head I always wondered if when they each look at themselves in the mirror they saw the other rather than themselves. Well, no, the answer is no, no they don't and if they did they don't anymore. You can't look in the mirror, take you hand and move your hair to see that part of yourself that is long gone.

Adding to that, you can make the case that since they were identical twins they were once one and the same person, one soul split in two. Monozygotic twins are one sperm and one egg that from two babies. During the process the cell divides into two, thus the argument that they were once one.

I should probably clarify about that whole 'part of yourself' I was referring to two paragraphs up.
This is an excerpt from the Trinity of Fates DVD Book:
- The battle where Dante and Vergil place themselves on opposite sides is a battle with one's other self. Dante and Vergil are each other's shadows, and at the same time each other's light. The relationship between Dante and Vergil is such that each of their selves are formed due to the other's existence.

As it states there, Dante was Vergil's other's other self and Vergil was Dante's. How they had the same face added to that. When confronting, it wasn't their brother they were each facing but rather themselves. Now, not so much, not really. Now it's clear who is who, hair in whatever direction. Before, since they are each other's shadow, the argument could be made that when they fought they weren't trying to kill the other; Dante wasn't trying to kill his brother, he was trying to kill that part of himself he hates and Vergil wasn't trying to kill his brother but rather that part of himself he hates. Both are, were, two sides of the same coin. The one who embraces his humanity and the one who embraces his demonic heritage and both hating the other aspect of themselves. Opposites but the same. The other's light and shadow. Well, hey took that out. I hate that they took something so symbolic and so damn near defining out of them. You can argue that a lot of the things I said still apply, even if they no longer have the same face, but it's not as meaningful anymore. It's not as poetic. Besides, they don't even look that much alike anymore. If I didn't know they were brothers I'd never would've guessed for myself.

Well I think that's the point, they became different in every form now that time passed, also vergil embraced his humanity its no longer the opposite of Dante, its a complete different person and can finally now detach from his brother and no longer leave in the shadow, he is his own persona now, he lived a complete different life from his twin

 

[Foxtrot94]

There was a lot of romance to the fact that they were identical. In terms of narrative and symbolism it a added a great deal to their characters and to perceptions of the other. It added a layer of depth to them, which is gone now.

Adding to that, you can make the case that since they were identical twins they were once one and the same person, one soul split in two.

To be perfectly honest, all this sounds more like overthinking and reaching on your part than actual intent. Sounds more like you made the whole identical twins thing a bigger deal than it really is, romanticized it too much and so this change bothers you more than it should.

No offense of course.

 

[berto]

I forgot to mention. It's a bit of a side note, but do y'all know how many strange twin related stories there are? Separated at birth but leading practically the same life. Unique twin language. One dying or being injured and at the same time, thousands of miles away the other either dying in a similar manner or showing the same signs of trauma. Strange psychic connections, like telepathy or powerful empathy between the two of them. Having children on the same day. There are a lot of stories, real stories, about the strange bond twins share. Imagine adding something as supernatural as demonic blood to that equation. I always thought that was a missed opportunity but I get the feeling that's no longer a possibility.

Well I think that's the point, they became different in every form now that time passed, also vergil embraced his humanity its no longer the opposite of Dante, its a complete different person and can finally now detach from his brother and no longer leave in the shadow, he is his own persona now, he lived a complete different life from his twin

Yeah, I gathered, that's why I dislike it, because they lost that bond in every way imaginable. Not just the symbolism but that trait that united them so strongly. Now they could just as well be two random dudes. Now, their relationship is so whatever. Their importance to one another has become more trivial and their rivalry less profound. Their hate for each other is less profound. Now it's all very superficial and straightforward. It wasn't just about being opposites, they were never just opposites. Whatever love and hate they posed for the other is no longer present.

To be perfectly honest, all this sounds more like overthinking and reaching on your part than actual intent. Sounds more like you made the whole identical twins thing a bigger deal than it really is, romanticized it too much and so this change bothers you more than it should.

No offense of course.

You ever watch Talladega Nights?

Anyway, I didn't romatisize the whole thing. That whole thing about being each other's 'other self,' each other's shadow and light and their very being being formed by the other's existence is official and it's a huge source of my thoughts and interpretation on their character and their relations to each other since around 2008, when I read that translation.

 

[Foxtrot94]

That whole thing about being each other's 'other self,' each other's shadow and light and their very being being formed by the other's existence is official

Sure is but seems to refer more to their thoughts and ideals rather than their physical appearance, unless it's specifically said in some other extract. Sounds like you projected that part into it hence why I said it's you reading too much into it/reaching.

 

[Vergil95]

I

I forgot to mention. It's a bit of a side note, but do y'all know how many strange twin related stories there are? Separated at birth but leading practically the same life. Unique twin language. One dying or being injured and at the same time, thousands of miles away the other either dying in a similar manner or showing the same signs of trauma. Strange psychic connections, like telepathy or powerful empathy between the two of them. Having children on the same day. There are a lot of stories, real stories, about the strange bond twins share. Imagine adding something as supernatural as demonic blood to that equation. I always thought that was a missed opportunity but I get the feeling that's no longer a possibility.


Yeah, I gathered, that's why I dislike it, because they lost that bond in every way imaginable. Not just the symbolism but that trait that united them so strongly. Now they could just as well be two random dudes. Now, their relationship is so whatever. Their importance to one another has become more trivial and their rivalry less profound. Their hate for each other is less profound. Now it's all very superficial and straightforward. It wasn't just about being opposites, they were never just opposites. Whatever love and hate they posed for the other is no longer present.


You ever watch Talladega Nights?

Anyway, I didn't romatisize the whole thing. That whole thing about being each other's 'other self,' each other's shadow and light and their very being being formed by the other's existence is official and it's a huge source of my thoughts and interpretation on their character and their relations to each other since around 2008, when I read that translation.

I think their bond stay present, dmc 5 story is bades on that, but in the end the twins thanks to nero decided to put aside this stupid rivalry and fight togheter...

 

[berto]

Sure is but seems to refer more to their thoughts and ideals rather than their physical appearance, unless it's specifically said in some other extract. Sounds like you projected that part into it hence why I said it's you reading too much into it/reaching.

If you want specific examples of the two being identical from an official source there is that, though I'm not sure why that's even in question.

In the art book 3142 one of the people who worked on DMC3 talked about how in that opening scene there is a part where you can't tell who is who. There is a close up of both their faces and it's hard to tell which is which. That was very much intentional. They even specifically gave their hair the same length to make that scene work out like that.
Then there's this:

 

[Vergil95]

If you want specific examples of the two being identical from an official source there is that, though I'm not sure why that's even in question.

In the art book 3142 one of the people who worked on DMC3 talked about how in that opening scene there is a part where you can't tell who is who. There is a close up of both their faces and it's hard to tell which is which. That was very much intentional. They even specifically gave their hair the same length to make that scene work out like that.
Then there's this:

Infact they are identical in dmc 3 but not now after more than 20 years passed from dmc 3 and they changed... They are indistinguishable in dmc 3 but in dmc 5 they are slightly different... Also this quotes in the manga doesn't want to mean that they are the same person

 

[Foxtrot94]

There is a close up of both their faces and it's hard to tell which is which.

Yes, I remember that part. However I'd argue that it was meant to be played more as a scenic dramatic effect rather than something that has actual deep significance when it comes to their relationship.

The scans you presented are the more convincing point, IMO. And even there, the fact that they're physically identical is only briefly mentioned, giving me no reason to think that it has the huge amount of significance you seem to attribute to it.

To me, in the entirety of the DMC story, the fact that they're brothers, rather than twin brothers, is what held the most actual meaning, if you know what I mean. The latter always came across as a scenic, "visually dramatic" device to me, so to speak. So one can argue that yes, it has its impact but in presentation more than anything else.

 

[Vergil95]

Yes, I remember that part. However I'd argue that it was meant to be played more as a scenic dramatic effect rather than something that has actual deep significance when it comes to their relationship.

The scans you presented are the more convincing point, IMO. And even there, the fact that they're physically identical is only briefly mentioned, giving me no reason to think that it has the huge amount of significance you seem to attribute to it.

To me, in the entirety of the DMC story, the fact that they're brothers, rather than twin brothers, is what held the most actual meaning. The latter always came across as a scenic, "visually dramatic" device, so to speak. So one can argue that yes, it has its impact but in presentation more than anything else.

Well the fact that they are twin is important, since in dmc 3 they put in the way of mgs 1 were liquid and solid are twins who are identical but opposed in goal... But in dmc 5 this is no longer the case since they changed and they are now different persona... Also they always explicit the fact that they are twins and not simple brother, even in dmc 5 they say they are twins, the fact that they were the same was important in the series, the fact that they changed in 5 give more importance to this since now they are they own persona separate one from the other and non longer living in the shadow of each other, they finally broke the brother rivalry