Force Awakens SPOILER Discussion

[Jak]

Stormtrooper TR-8R or Trey Tor (i don't think that his official name but that's what everyone is calling him)
was the best part of the movie for me

"sees someone with a light saber"

BRING IT ON!

and he was going to win the fight before he got shot
total badass

i really hope he survived i love this guy

i'm not too keen on the new star wars universe lore, but in the original continuity, stormtrooper armor was touch enough to withstand most blaster shots...but the way TR-8R bit the dust, i'm confident that he's dead

 

[Chancey289]

@xMobilemux
"Feminist Mary Sue", what?

Just because she's a female character? And she's not a Mary Sue.

I hear a lot of people calling Rey from The Force Awakens a Mary Sue just because she's "overly skilled" using her force powers and such, and I don't agree with that. I mean for one, did everyone forget how Luke just got in to an x-wing for the first time and blew up a Deathstar for example.

When I think of a Mary Sue, I'm not really thinking of an overly skilled character. I'm thinking of the perfect character that warps the fictional world around them. When the character has the universe bending to their will. Having powers incompatible within the rules of the established universe just because the character is cool.

Rey is skilled (because who wants an untalented main character) but not to an unusual extent. She doesn't bend anyone's characterization to accomodate her or break's the universe's rules to. Which to me is the truest sign of a Mary Sue. If you just ignore this criterion, then every action hero ever basically becomes a Mary Sue making the term meaningless.

Rey does some stuff, but of course she will. She's the protagonist. No one would be saying this if she was a dude I'm betting. It's like any female character who can walk home in the rain without drowning will be called a Mary Sue at some point.

 

[xMobilemux]

Luke learned about the mind control when Obi Wan did it to those Storm Troopers and needed to learn how to use a saber when he was on the Falcon, he managed to use the force well enough for the Death Star destruction, but it wasn't until the 2nd movie when he could use the force well enough in that snow cave with the monster and even then he struggled for a few seconds to get the saber in his hands.
Then when he finally faced Vader he got his ass handed to him and had to undergo training with Yoda, it wasn't until the 3rd movie when he was finally a decent Jedi and then finally became a true Jedi once he defeated Vader and the Emperor.
Luke went from a little whiny kid to Jedi Master throughout the course of the 3 original films.

Rey manages to scare Kylo Ren by reading Ren's thoughts using the force, own the Mind control trick on a guard in less than a minute with no knowledge of it unlike Luke did and defeat Ren in a Saber battle, all within the last 3rd of The Force Awakens.

Rey went from normal raider girl to owning the force and dominating a saber duel in one 3rd of one movie.

Not to mention Finn was pretty much useless as Rey was able to fly the Falcon, work out all the technical stuff on the Falcon and so on while Finn was just being useless.

Rey may not be as Mary Sue as everyone on the internet as everyone is saying, but I do think she's made too damn perfect for one movie, or maybe she just seems so perfect because Finn was so freaking useless. But anyway, I just hope the next 2 movies do her better.

 

[Dark Drakan]

Luke learned about the mind control when Obi Wan did it to those Storm Troopers and needed to learn how to use a saber when he was on the Falcon, he managed to use the force well enough for the Death Star destruction, but it wasn't until the 2nd movie when he could use the force well enough in that snow cave with the monster and even then he struggled for a few seconds to get the saber in his hands.
Then when he finally faced Vader he got his ass handed to him and had to undergo training with Yoda, it wasn't until the 3rd movie when he was finally a decent Jedi and then finally became a true Jedi once he defeated Vader and the Emperor.
Luke went from a little whiny kid to Jedi Master throughout the course of the 3 original films.

Rey manages to scare Kylo Ren by reading Ren's thoughts using the force, own the Mind control trick on a guard in less than a minute with no knowledge of it unlike Luke did and defeat Ren in a Saber battle, all within the last 3rd of The Force Awakens.

Rey went from normal raider girl to owning the force and dominating a saber duel in one 3rd of one movie.

Not to mention Finn was pretty much useless as Rey was able to fly the Falcon, work out all the technical stuff on the Falcon and so on while Finn was just being useless.

Rey may not be as Mary Sue as everyone on the internet as everyone is saying, but I do think she's made too damn perfect for one movie, or maybe she just seems so perfect because Finn was so freaking useless. But anyway, I just hope the next 2 movies do her better.

Not a lot is actually known about Rey or Kylo Ren at the moment and their level of training. A few theories are suggesting that she could have been one of the younglings being trained by Luke (possibly also his daughter) and does have jedi training or at very least she is hugely force sensitive but maybe underwent some mind wipe to protect her identity. Her name might not even really be Rey according to some, this was merely the name she took as it was a variation of the one on the side of the pilot helmet she had. It actually belonged to Captain Dosmit Ræh of the Tierfon Yellow Ace.

Although a lightsaber requires training, she was pretty useful in hand to hand combat with her staff and not exactly unskilled as such. Kylo was also injured by Chewies Bowcaster shot, which was previously throwing stormtroopers around like confetti and in mental turmoil after his 'moment' with Han. Kylo wasnt fully trained either and pretty raw potential also so who really knows the extent of both of their training currently. Will be interested to see how this is expanded upon in the next movies.

 

[Chancey289]

Rey manages to scare Kylo Ren by reading Ren's thoughts using the force, own the Mind control trick on a guard in less than a minute with no knowledge of it unlike Luke did and defeat Ren in a Saber battle, all within the last 3rd of The Force Awakens.

Rey went from normal raider girl to owning the force and dominating a saber duel in one 3rd of one movie.

Not to mention Finn was pretty much useless as Rey was able to fly the Falcon, work out all the technical stuff on the Falcon and so on while Finn was just being useless.

Rey may not be as Mary Sue as everyone on the internet as everyone is saying, but I do think she's made too damn perfect for one movie, or maybe she just seems so perfect because Finn was so freaking useless. But anyway, I just hope the next 2 movies do her better.

Rey is apparently really Force sensitive and has something up with her that hasn't even been revealed yet.

But as I was saying, when it came to the mind trick she failed the first couple of times. And she's shown in the movie to have some extensive knowledge of the Jedi mythos and the Force talking to Han.

She also was able to at least hold her own in a saber battle with Ren because for one, she's from a very harsh planet where she has obviously learned to defend herself, is Force sensitive, and was fighting an injured Kylo Ren who is also not a Sith lord, but an out of practice apprentice.

Hell, I'm not sure anyone knows the specifics of how the Force works, but Luke was able to block blasters and do all kinds of Jedi stuff just because he was force sensitive, so yea that's a factor. Don't give me some bs that she pulled this out of the blue when Luke pretty much did just that.

She's not perfect, she's just a main character who does stuff! I may not even be really a Star Wars person but this criticism against Rey is all kinda BS that I feel probably wouldn't be brought up if she was a dude. I still don't understand why you called her, and I quote, "feminist Mary Sue".

 

[LordOfDarkness]

This is something that has been bugging me too. Everyone is so quick to label Rey as "Mary Sue", it's like they dismiss all other points that don't show her as being perfect.

Believe it or not, there is a reason she may be good at using the force, and one we don't know about - Midichlorians; tiny microscopic life forms that allow force sensitive individuals to use the force. I'm not sure if anyone is aware, but you can just naturally have a high count of these Midichlorians living on you - which I'm guessing the higher the count, then supposedly the greater you can become at using the force. Since it's something that can happen naturally from birth, there isn't really anything to suggest Rey wasn't simply born with a high Midichlorian count.

Even if we don't go with that 'theory' as a way of suggesting why/how she was so good at using the force, we can still look at things she did that I'd say were less than "perfect". Remember when she jumps into the Millennium Falcon, and her and Finn are escaping from those ships? Well, Rey doesn't exactly 'shake' that ship off of her, like she told Finn she was going to do. Actually, it was Finn that shot it down; without Finn in that situation, nobody would have shot it down. Oh, and then there was the time when they first met Han and Chewie. Whose idea was it to close both of the doors on those bad guys? It was Rey's. What happened instead? She released those creatures (forgot the names). That was probably (well not probably, it was) the worst thing she could've done. Hardly perfect I'd say. Also, if she was meant to be so great, how comes all she does is go and hide near the end until she meets back up with Finn and Solo? It's not like she took on any Stormtroopers or anything, not like they do in all of the other Star Wars movies.

You can't just say Rey was such a flawlessly perfect character, not when you've got Kylo Ren who does similar amazing feats, as to which nobody says "Oh man, wasn't he just a little too good in the movie?". It works both ways, Rey and Kylo are only just beginning to learn what they can achieve. Nobody questions how Kylo - not even a Sith Lord, yet - can do half the things he's doing, which to me doesn't sit right. The criticism should work both ways, because it seemed pretty equal to me.

 

[mrrandomlulz]

Spoiler

 

[berto]

 

[Sparda's rejected son]

Well Mr. StormTrooper you've now joined the ranks of Darth Maul. A minor character that is much, much bigger than originally created.

 

[AgentRedgrave]

Well to be fair, I've heard the theory that Rey may have actually been trained in the force when she was younger, she simply doesn't remember being trained.

A lot of people also assume Kylo Ren is a poor duelist since Finn and Rey (neither having used a lightsaber before) were able to wound him (the latter even managed to best him), few factors.

1. Kylo Ren was already wounded after he was shot in the stomach by Chewie
   
2. While both Finn and Rey are very inexperienced with lightsabers, they aren't inexperienced fighters in-general. Rey we saw could hold her own in a fight with a staff, and Finn, well he was a stormtrooper, maybe Finn was trained with one of those riot batons like TR-8R was?
   
3. Snoke himself said it, Kylo Ren's training at this point in incomplete

As for Rey's parentage, well a lot of people think she's Luke's daughter, some think Han and Leia's daughter (which would kinda make sense, since Kylo Ren is basically Jacen Solo, why can't Rey be Jaina?) or even Obi-Wan Kenobi's granddaughter (Obi-Wan had a son or daughter? But it would be kinda fitting Obi-Wan Kenobi's granddaughter vs Darth Vader's grandson)

Really though, most people assume Rey's a Skywalker/Solo/Kenobi mainly because it was said not having a surname was intentional for the character. Now to be fair, they could just be because well.....as Rey herself states in the trailer "I'm no one", she's got no family, she's all alone, they could have just meant that....No one believes that for a sec do they?

 

[Jak]

seeing the movie again...it's not as bad as i made it out to be. but i will say that i still am not a fan of how rey's character was written. and, i know everyone's gonna say "we gotta wait for the next two movies to explain this or that" but just here, and now. i see a character that isn't that well written. everything works out or her. and people like to say that she's using the force. and yes, the force does heighten one's senses, and overall capability...but if that's the case, why was luke, in star wars episodes 4 and 5 a loser who SUCKED AT EVERYTHING? he was the son of the most powerful force user ever, and he had trouble lifting his lightsaber out of the snow 3 feet away from him. that irked me a bit, but if it can be explained away in a future film, then fine. i'll just have to wait and see what happens.

as for finn...i dislike him the more i see the movie. he's no JARJAR, but he's damn close.

 

[LordOfDarkness]

@AgentRedgrave: You also overlooked Kylo Ren's mentality going into the final battle. Your mindset is also a great factor in how well you perform physically, and since he wasn't all there mentally...well, you can see why he lost.

 

[AgentRedgrave]

@AgentRedgrave: You also overlooked Kylo Ren's mentality going into the final battle. Your mindset is also a great factor in how well you perform physically, and since he wasn't all there mentally...well, you can see why he lost.

This is also true

 

[Demi-fiend]

 

[Demi-fiend]

 

[Jak]

gonna watch the movie to see if i have a better experience with it this time around. hopefully i do.

 

[V's patron]

I saw it on the plane ride two weeks or so ago and I enjoyed it immensely. I did wish Finn was a dude who joined the First Order of his own free will only to realise how wrong that was rather than being taken at birth and brainwashed but eh its still worked.

 

[Jak]

so far, i'm not that into it. it's FINN. he's jarjar. and it's really annoying (which sucks because john boyega is a really good actor and i would rather see him do something else).

 

[Demi-fiend]

Tru dat.