DLC Ideas.........
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Kam
Wall of text crits you for 600
bear in mind, it's completely not canon. While kamiya did create both devil may cry and bayonetta (and the character Eva) he lost rights to the IP by the time he made bayonetta. This is just an easter egg that, while never proven wrong, probably won't be proven true either unless the next guy to write devil may cry decides to pick it up.
I do like the explanation though
Stylish Nero
We Dem Boys!!
Kam
Wall of text crits you for 600
if that's what you wanted to hear, why did you disagree with me the first time I said it was unofficial? The explanation is plausible, and no amount of ****posting will ever change that. If any post does eventually prove me wrong, it won't be from a post like yours just now.
Stylish Nero
We Dem Boys!!
Well by then the argument wasn't official and my reaction to that comment was more of if anything countering the possibility of Eva being a witch if Kamiya was in charge or not.
If Capcom or PG ever decides to make Eva a witch or make it canon I will still say bullsh*t or the very least call asspull and I gave you my reasons why.
Kam
Wall of text crits you for 600
you've had 3 pages to give me your reasons why, right now. You don't get to keep your reasons to yourself and then repeatedly declare yourself "the winner" of an argument. That's now how discussion works.
Either contribute or sit quietly in the peanut gallery
Demi-fiend
Metempsychosis
Stylish Nero
We Dem Boys!!
Sir it seems you present a statement of declaration or challenge is in past tense and present tense mixing up the two concepts of your stating something in the past but at the same thing offering a challenge in the present thus sparking confusion in the initial target of your comment (me the responder). So I take initiative that you as the original commentator to make it more clear of the intent and purpose of your statement before further action must be taken place to advance the nature and growth of our conversation.
Angel
Is not rat, is hamster
With reference to those who are NOT aiding the discussion whatsoever by throwing in little digs, "funny" gifs and whatever else, if I see another one (and you know who you are), you will be temp-banned. Overreaction? Maybe - but I can do that sort of thing so...y'know...
Demi-fiend
Metempsychosis
All right. No more little digs or "funny" gifs. Also, Stylish Nero and I have since buried the hatchet.
Ok, just one more gif. But it's not a dig at anyone, so I don't think it would be breaking any rules in this case. Sorry.
I'll give anyone else who's willing to accept a peace offering as well.
Kam
Wall of text crits you for 600
you're saying it's my fault for not explicitly telling you that you're supposed to back up what you believe by offering reason? On the off chance that this is actually true, I'll correct my mistake right now.
You're supposed to back up what you believe by offering reason. I believe that the "eva as a witch" backstory, while unofficial, is a plausible backstory, and on a personal note I kind of like it. Sacrificing her demonic powers in order to fight for humanity as a powerless human seems 100% the kind of thing that sparda (and dante, too) would absolutely love. It's the implicit precursor to the love story that explains the very existence of dante and vergil.
Not only is it plausible, but it fits the theme of the series, and makes for a good story. But you seem convinced that this could not have possibly happened. You haven't made very much mention to if you like it or not, only that you think this backstory is impossible. If you have some fact that would completely rule out this particular theory, I would really love to hear it. If this is actually objectively impossible, I want to know so I can stop mentioning it.
PS - and if you feel like you already did mention your proof, please don't make a 3 paragraph post consisting only of "I already told you l2read". Humor me and repeat yourself, please
Demi-fiend
Metempsychosis
Hey... maybe you should stop arguing. Not telling you what to do, but after seeing... the post... I think it would be better not to push our luck.
Yeah, I know I'm pretty much the only one in the crosshairs right now, but there's no reason to attract attention to yourself either. Sorry Kam.
Gel
When the going gets tough, the tough get going
I'm not part of your argument, neither I should say a word about it, but let me give you an alternative story about "Eva was a witch":
First, if she made a contract for her soul to get power, I highly doubt demons would allow her to nullify or revogate that agreement, giving her soul back.
Possible theories:
-Eva was a woman who wanted power, so sold herself to demons to have that desired power attracting( possibily) Sparda to that mess.( Maybe Vergil inherit his lust for power from his mother and not from his demonic side)
-Maybe that contract didn't involved her soul, but Sparda gives her power and she is obligated to bear his children.
- She was a Mundus servant ( or mistress), but not happy with what she had already, she seduced Sparda in order to instigate him against Mundus and become even more "powerful". Humans love power after all.
-maybe she wasn't just a loving woman, but a manipulative person who just used Sparda for her intents.
-If she was a witch, she was a wh*re too, since witches are called " Wh*res of Darkness".
Anyway it would be fun if in this story, against the usual cliché, she was the "dark" part of the two, not the good one.
Yes, we have no proves or no hints that she was a bad person, but we have no clues of what she was and my theory is so credible as yours, since none of us really knew her.
Now, in more serious tone, in DMC1 booklet( that one you have inside DMC1 gamebox) said Sparda turned against his brethren, closed Hell's doors and lived peacefully between humans.Later married a human woman and soon he fathered a son( you only find Vergil as his son in-game), dying before his children be born.We don't know even if he married for love, since it wasn't hinted before DMC3. We know Eva was of noble blood, but was never said she was a mage, a witch or whatever and, as you know, great part of the original story was re-written later in DMC3.
The same way you shouldn't take Kamiya's references as gospel, since I and a lot of people thought DMC1 in-game items and references were meaningful, but Kamiya went on record saying he just used them because he thought they were cool, because " DMC is all about being cool".
Yes, Kam, you recognized this is unofficial, but a lot of people are presenting this a canon, no less, because a guy who had gave up the franchise 12 years ago and officially said he is giving a damn about it, said so; while Capcom, the true owner of the franchise, said Nero was Vergil's son, but since no one likes it, nobody accepts.Double standarts, perhaps?!
Sorry for the long post...
First, if she made a contract for her soul to get power, I highly doubt demons would allow her to nullify or revogate that agreement, giving her soul back.
Possible theories:
-Eva was a woman who wanted power, so sold herself to demons to have that desired power attracting( possibily) Sparda to that mess.( Maybe Vergil inherit his lust for power from his mother and not from his demonic side)
-Maybe that contract didn't involved her soul, but Sparda gives her power and she is obligated to bear his children.
- She was a Mundus servant ( or mistress), but not happy with what she had already, she seduced Sparda in order to instigate him against Mundus and become even more "powerful". Humans love power after all.
-maybe she wasn't just a loving woman, but a manipulative person who just used Sparda for her intents.
-If she was a witch, she was a wh*re too, since witches are called " Wh*res of Darkness".
Anyway it would be fun if in this story, against the usual cliché, she was the "dark" part of the two, not the good one.
Yes, we have no proves or no hints that she was a bad person, but we have no clues of what she was and my theory is so credible as yours, since none of us really knew her.
Now, in more serious tone, in DMC1 booklet( that one you have inside DMC1 gamebox) said Sparda turned against his brethren, closed Hell's doors and lived peacefully between humans.Later married a human woman and soon he fathered a son( you only find Vergil as his son in-game), dying before his children be born.We don't know even if he married for love, since it wasn't hinted before DMC3. We know Eva was of noble blood, but was never said she was a mage, a witch or whatever and, as you know, great part of the original story was re-written later in DMC3.
The same way you shouldn't take Kamiya's references as gospel, since I and a lot of people thought DMC1 in-game items and references were meaningful, but Kamiya went on record saying he just used them because he thought they were cool, because " DMC is all about being cool".
Yes, Kam, you recognized this is unofficial, but a lot of people are presenting this a canon, no less, because a guy who had gave up the franchise 12 years ago and officially said he is giving a damn about it, said so; while Capcom, the true owner of the franchise, said Nero was Vergil's son, but since no one likes it, nobody accepts.Double standarts, perhaps?!
Sorry for the long post...
Kam
Wall of text crits you for 600
you don't have to apologize, long posts are perfectly fine if they're thought out 
There's been some new information lately on the specifics of witches, souls, and contracts, as the new bayonetta game seems to focus on it as a main plot point. In one point of the trailer a greater demon manifests without any help from a witch, it goes on to attack bayonetta but misses, hitting jeanne and ripping her soul out of her body. Her soul is then dragged to hell. From this it's pretty obvious that while witches sign away their souls, their souls appear to remain with their bodies until the time comes to "collect". If a witch is able to repel the demon attempting to take it, it's reasonable to assume that the witch could violate her contract and keep her soul. With sparda's help eva could repel the demons looking to collect her, although once sparda had disappeared it was only a matter of time before demons hunted her down and closed her contract..
Although you do bring up a very valid point with the timing. The series of events laid out in the DMC1 handbook (which I didn't read, whoops) certainly rules out eva joining sparda's fight against hell, which is a shame because I really liked that story. Oh well, guess it isn't as plausible as I thought.
I personally do like the explanation of nero as vergil's son though; it makes a lot of sense and adds some depth to vergil's character. Nero's story is that his father was unknown, his mother was killed at an early age, and he himself grew up at an orphanage. Vergil appears in DMC3 after a year being out of contact with dante, subsequently he is defeated and enslaved. If vergil was going to have a son without dante knowing it, it would definitely need to be in that one year window. It's reasonable to assume that some crazy **** went down and vergil's wife was killed, maybe he thought nero was dead too?
I like to think that vergil failed to protect the mother of his son, and his sudden quest for absolute power was in response to this event. When vergil stabs dante and mentions "without power, you can't protect anything" it's possible vergil wasn't talking about dante, but about his own failures.
Additionally, here's a fun thought. Very powerful demons in the classic DMC universe turn into demonic weapons when killed. Vergil was a powerful demon. I wonder what happened to his weapon? Vergil as a devil arm would probably make for a killer DLC plot point
There's been some new information lately on the specifics of witches, souls, and contracts, as the new bayonetta game seems to focus on it as a main plot point. In one point of the trailer a greater demon manifests without any help from a witch, it goes on to attack bayonetta but misses, hitting jeanne and ripping her soul out of her body. Her soul is then dragged to hell. From this it's pretty obvious that while witches sign away their souls, their souls appear to remain with their bodies until the time comes to "collect". If a witch is able to repel the demon attempting to take it, it's reasonable to assume that the witch could violate her contract and keep her soul. With sparda's help eva could repel the demons looking to collect her, although once sparda had disappeared it was only a matter of time before demons hunted her down and closed her contract..
Although you do bring up a very valid point with the timing. The series of events laid out in the DMC1 handbook (which I didn't read, whoops) certainly rules out eva joining sparda's fight against hell, which is a shame because I really liked that story. Oh well, guess it isn't as plausible as I thought.
I personally do like the explanation of nero as vergil's son though; it makes a lot of sense and adds some depth to vergil's character. Nero's story is that his father was unknown, his mother was killed at an early age, and he himself grew up at an orphanage. Vergil appears in DMC3 after a year being out of contact with dante, subsequently he is defeated and enslaved. If vergil was going to have a son without dante knowing it, it would definitely need to be in that one year window. It's reasonable to assume that some crazy **** went down and vergil's wife was killed, maybe he thought nero was dead too?
I like to think that vergil failed to protect the mother of his son, and his sudden quest for absolute power was in response to this event. When vergil stabs dante and mentions "without power, you can't protect anything" it's possible vergil wasn't talking about dante, but about his own failures.
Additionally, here's a fun thought. Very powerful demons in the classic DMC universe turn into demonic weapons when killed. Vergil was a powerful demon. I wonder what happened to his weapon? Vergil as a devil arm would probably make for a killer DLC plot point
Demi-fiend
Metempsychosis
I like the idea of Vergil being Nero's father as well. The only other alternative would be either Dante, or someone found Sparda's blood and cloned him (not Angus, another steampunk scientist). It would (kind of) explain as to how Nero has Sparda's blood, but "isn't as strong as Dante" (Sanctus quote).
As for Vergil becoming a devil arm... well, he kind of did. It said in the game manual (or maybe the game itself, I forgot) that a piece of Nelo Angelo's armor was used to make those angel armors that Nero and Dante fight.
Also, Vergil would not have become a unique devil arm... his soul would just go into his katana once he was defeated. Remember how agni and rudra were their own swords? It's kind of like that. And beowulf just turned into a miniature version of the gauntlets and greaves that were already fused into his body (whether the fusion itself was done through demonic magic or whether he was born with his weapons already fused to his body isn't necessarily the point here, they're a part of him either way).
While Yamato was originally Sparda's sword first, he most likely used it in conjunction with the Force Edge (after he gave up his power and started hunting less powerful demons) like Vergil did. The Rebellion he made for Dante was probably used as well. It wouldn't surprise me if he found a way to use all three in a combo.
Or, he could have used it separately. In DMC1, there were little differences when it came to using the different swords.
But, we all know that there are technically different animations for each sword. Sparda could have easily found a way to use each sword uniquely.
Force Edge:
Rebellion:
Yamato:
Remember, Dante kind of used the Yamato like that after the boss fight with Arkham.
Here's Yun's fighting style -- it's somewhat similar to Nero's (imho).
I couldn't find anyone else who used a large sword and used one hand (Siegfried uses two hands).
Ok, here's the "traditional" Yamato style. I wish Vergil had the option of using either one hand or both.
As for Vergil becoming a devil arm... well, he kind of did. It said in the game manual (or maybe the game itself, I forgot) that a piece of Nelo Angelo's armor was used to make those angel armors that Nero and Dante fight.
Also, Vergil would not have become a unique devil arm... his soul would just go into his katana once he was defeated. Remember how agni and rudra were their own swords? It's kind of like that. And beowulf just turned into a miniature version of the gauntlets and greaves that were already fused into his body (whether the fusion itself was done through demonic magic or whether he was born with his weapons already fused to his body isn't necessarily the point here, they're a part of him either way).
While Yamato was originally Sparda's sword first, he most likely used it in conjunction with the Force Edge (after he gave up his power and started hunting less powerful demons) like Vergil did. The Rebellion he made for Dante was probably used as well. It wouldn't surprise me if he found a way to use all three in a combo.
Or, he could have used it separately. In DMC1, there were little differences when it came to using the different swords.
But, we all know that there are technically different animations for each sword. Sparda could have easily found a way to use each sword uniquely.
Force Edge:
Rebellion:
Yamato:
Remember, Dante kind of used the Yamato like that after the boss fight with Arkham.
Here's Yun's fighting style -- it's somewhat similar to Nero's (imho).
I couldn't find anyone else who used a large sword and used one hand (Siegfried uses two hands).
Ok, here's the "traditional" Yamato style. I wish Vergil had the option of using either one hand or both.
Demi-fiend
Metempsychosis
continued from last post:
Now... knowing Dante's wild side, he could very well have used the Rebellion like this:
The reason I didn't post these videos first was because I preferred Darth Vader's and Yoda's moveset to everyone else's.
Also, Yoshimitsu's style may be too similar to Mitsurugi's. I'll let you watch and judge for yourself.
Now... knowing Dante's wild side, he could very well have used the Rebellion like this:
The reason I didn't post these videos first was because I preferred Darth Vader's and Yoda's moveset to everyone else's.
Also, Yoshimitsu's style may be too similar to Mitsurugi's. I'll let you watch and judge for yourself.