Did i miss something?

[TWOxACROSS]

it was a split-second decision i acknowledge that all to well but neor did not even care afterwards and nobody even touched on it apparently nero was the "hero".

From that point until pretty much the end of the game Nero was preoccupied with staying alive, saving Kyrie, and stopping Sanctus from inside the Savior. I suppose he didn't really have time to reflect on the error of letting his emotions get the better of him and endanger the citizenry

The end of DMC4 was some fairly generic "happy ending to an action movie" stuff, though. All that "Yay you saved me and I love you~" and "See yah around kid,"

I think by that point they wanted to end it on a decently high note, without having to see Kyrie bawling her eyes out over her brother's death, nor everyone stopping to consider how many people died in the chaos. I'm not excusing it, though, I think DMC games have pretty much always been fairly bad at ending

It's like stopping to consider the amount of paperwork Tequila would have to fill out after the fantasic hospital shootout in Hard Boiled.

Heck, most action movies involving a hero cop lampshade the chaos by making jokes about how much paperwork it's gonna generate. Even Stranglehold (the game sequel to Hard Boiled) ends with your chief surveying the destruction wrought from your final shootout and lamenting how "the paperwork is going to take months!"

and i have no idea what you mean by your sidenote.

I don't ever poke around in the other fora at all. Thought I'd get into the world, roam for spell

 

[aoshi]

I think DMC games have pretty much always been fairly bad at ending

In DMC 3 end, Dante does acknowledge loss of vergil.

FFS, Please spare us your BS and whinging on DMC. People like you are a plague to DMC community. You won't give credit to DMC and compare it any 'B' grade movie when DMC games have been high quality video-games. Again, to someone like you god of war would be superior but then again, please go to a god of war forum and whinge about DMC and it will be easy for me to ignore you.

 

[seraphmaycry]

In DMC 3 end, Dante does acknowledge loss of vergil.

FFS, Please spare us your BS and whinging on DMC. People like you are a plague to DMC community. You won't give credit to DMC and compare it any 'B' grade movie when DMC games have been high quality video-games. Again, to someone like you god of war would be superior but then again, please go to a god of war forum and whinge about DMC and it will be easy for me to ignore you.

1 please give him some credit dmc is NOT known for it's story but the endings are good

2 you are whining yourself here

3 this post itself can probably be counted as a whine too

 

[TWOxACROSS]

In DMC 3 end, Dante does acknowledge loss of vergil.

FFS, Please spare us your BS and whinging on DMC. People like you are a plague to DMC community. You won't give credit to DMC and compare it any 'B' grade movie when DMC games have been high quality video-games. Again, to someone like you god of war would be superior but then again, please go to a god of war forum and whinge about DMC and it will be easy for me to ignore you.

You seriously need to chill the f#ck out dude. If you hadn't noticed, I was giving quite the in-depth reasoning in Neromaycry's discussion, and really not at all bashing DMC4.

And sorry you can't seem to handle an opinion, considering I said "I think they've always been bad at ending," and not something that could be construed as a fact I'm trying to push. It was such a halfhearted opinion anyway, because as I typed it out I was still acknowledging that DMC3, as usual, is the greatest exception.

God, I didn't even give a justification for why I felt the way I did about the endings, and you jumped down my throat. Truth of the matter is that classic DMC wasn't about telling a fantastic story, it was a narrative that just put the player in a position to kick lots of ass. Just like action movies, they just tend to end when the action is over, and a lot usually gets left unsaid or doesn't get addressed. Yeah sure, Dante cried at the loss of his brother, but there was also a greater emphasis on their fraternity throughout the whole game. In neromaycry's case, the lack of acknowledgement for the amount of innocent lives lost is not all that unsurprising as they weren't a main focus of the game, and since it's not a series known explicitly for it's great storytelling, we easily overlook the omission of such facts, usually because we're still all jones'd up from the crazy action the games give us.

I don't even quite know what you're getting at, because I wasn't whinging at all. I've given a lot of credit to DMC where it's due, and I still hold this entire franchise in high regard as one of my favorite action franchises. I don't even really like God of War, save for GoW2 because it had some cool elements and I still have a deep appreciation for Greek mythology.

I don't know where you get off saying that I'd think God of War is superior, when I've constantly lamented customers passing up my recommendation for DMC in favor of GoW when I worked at GameStop.

In fact, in all my time here, despite disagreeing on certain points with the classic series, I've shown myself to be pretty goddamn knowledgeable of the franchise. A mistake here and there, sure, but this is one of my most beloved franchises, and I played the literal sh!t out of every single one of them - I'm even one of the (apparently) few who liked DMC2! I've even read the novels!

But no...what the f#ck am I doing trying to justify myself to you, as if I have to measure up to some standard of yours...

F#ck...it's sh!t like this that's the reason why I've only hung around the DmC forum :/

 

[Stylish Nero]

Most action based stories ends with the heroes usually never reflecting on the damage that was done even when the damage done was usually there fault.

DMC was never a deep story with well written or deep stories and still is. The characters may be mysterious and their intentions and characterization may be dubious at best but weren't really deep but enough to promote discussion and speculation among the most dedicated of fans.

I mean story wise DMC is comparable to Resident Evil (the games but with more cryptic and deep characters.....well compared to Resident Evil that is and far less plot holes....VERY FAR LESS PLOT HOLES).

Now as for the endings, every DMC game each has their happy ending its supposed to emphasize despite all the chaos, tribulations, and darkness of both the human nature of greed, power, and evils and demons in the world there is hope and a happy ending if we strive for it (the happy ending is basically the reward for the player or perhaps symbolism as a game/world about devils and humans turning to demons for demonic power and selling their souls an extremely bright, hopeful, and happy ending is supposed to be ironic or fitting).

DMC games to me have always had fitting endings.

Now as for in DMC4 with Nero ignoring the damage that he was somewhat responsible for. Its not a big deal why don't you make a big deal about Dante and Vergil smiling and laughing and even Dante bragging about who did the more work while facing the torn and wrecked city which is most likely filed with the brim with human casualties, destruction that they basically caused and not reflecting on "Oh gee...there must be a lot of human casualties. I think we should take responsibility or at least show some remorse."

The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.....nope its still in the tree its just not ripe yet but they picked it anyway.

Cue counter argument.........

 

[TWOxACROSS]

Most action based stories ends with the heroes usually never reflecting on the damage that was done even when the damage done was usually there fault.

Man of Steel. Apparently. I haven't seen it, but I've constantly heard about how his fight with Zodd pretty much wrecked so much of Metropolis they might have been better off it Supes didn't fight him.

why don't you make a big deal about Dante and Vergil smiling and laughing and even Dante bragging about who did the more work while facing the torn and wrecked city which is most likely filed with the brim with human casualties, destruction that they basically caused and not reflecting on "Oh gee...there must be a lot of human casualties. I think we should take responsibility or at least show some remorse."

"We did it!"
"IT WAS YOU!? YOU DESTROYED THE CITY?!"
"No...I mean...we stopped the bad guy..."
"GET 'EM!"
"Uhm...time to make like a fetus and head out!"

It's almost like every wide-scale action movie where the heroes try to save the city/world ends with something really close to a Pyrrhic victory, haha.

 

[Stylish Nero]

Man of Steel. Apparently. I haven't seen it, but I've constantly heard about how his fight with Zodd pretty much wrecked so much of Metropolis they might have been better off it Supes didn't fight him.




"We did it!"
"IT WAS YOU!? YOU DESTROYED THE CITY?!"
"No...I mean...we stopped the bad guy..."
"GET 'EM!"
"Uhm...time to make like a fetus and head out!"

It's almost like every wide-scale action movie where the heroes try to save the city/world ends with something really close to a Pyrrhic victory, haha.

Well some damage needs to be done or sacrifices needs to be made in order to prevent a greater tragedy.

In all reality, the stuff wouldn't have escalated to the extend they did in DMC4 if it wasn't for Trish and Dante.

Trish because she gave the Order Sparda.

Dante because he was the one who let Nero go when he knows he could've stopped and ended Sanctus and didn't need Nero to go there.

I mean sure Dante was probably dubious to the Order's full plan of needing a blood relative to Sparda. In fact, Dante probably didn't know their plan at all or even Yamato was there....or maybe he knew it was there.

However, I do say letting Nero go prove beneficial as in the end Nero getting absorbed inside the Savior did helped out as Dante was able to give him Yamato and have Nero defeat Sanctus from the inside shutting down the Savior since the thing was indestructible.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

Yeah...it was a little weird when you realize that Dante could have probably single-handedly stopped the Order of the Sword's plans. Oh well! We got a new character with a heavily nebulous past in the process, yaaaaaaaaaaaay~

As silly as it was to introduce Nero from a narrative standpoint, from a gameplay standpoint he was at least a refreshing mix-up on the DMC formula

 

[Stylish Nero]

Yeah...it was a little weird when you realize that Dante could have probably single-handedly stopped the Order of the Sword's plans. Oh well! We got a new character with a heavily nebulous past in the process, yaaaaaaaaaaaay~

As silly as it was to introduce Nero from a narrative standpoint, from a gameplay standpoint he was at least a refreshing mix-up on the DMC formula

From a narrative standpoint it makes sense. More characters the merrier.

If it wasn't for Nero, Dante would've curbstomp the Order ultimately ending the game by mission 3.

Mission 1: F*ck up the Order

Mission 2: Go to the Order HQ to F*ck up the Order

Mission 3: F*ck up the Order

Go home. Eat Pizza. The end.

Nero helped reconstructed Yamato (something vital to their plans) and was kidnapped and used in the Savior to operate it in Dante's place even Sanctus acknowledged if it wasn't for Nero the plan wouldn't have succeeded (because lets be real here capturing Dante.....pffffttt good luck and funny I think they actually thought they could capture Dante LOL).

Besides my main question is what they plan to do with that giant stone corpse in the middle of the city?

 

[TWOxACROSS]

From a narrative standpoint it makes sense. More characters the merrier.

I dunno, having more characters was nice, but I just say what I said because they introduced him and did a ****-poor job of fleshing him out, or at least, they did a ****-poor job of certain origins of his. The Devil Bringer is such a prominent part of his character and we know so little about it beyond him being injured there in a demon attack prior to the game. Then there's pretty much however he's tied to Sparda :ermm: We needed to get an official artbook like five years after the fact to solidify that he's apparently Vergil's son, and even then, some specifics would have been nice >.<

I suppose when I say "silly from a narrative standpoint" I mean from the franchises whole narrative, because for being so prominent and important in DMC4, he has no legacy that extends beyond his game, aside from his vague connection to Vergil.

Mission 1: F*ck up the Order

Mission 2: Go to the Order HQ to F*ck up the Order

Mission 3: F*ck up the Order

Go home. Eat Pizza. The end.

Secret Mission 1: F#ck up the Order in ten seconds

Secret Mission 2: F#ck up the Order without getting hit

Secret Mission 3: F#ck up the Order while avoiding lasers

Besides my main question is what they plan to do with that giant stone corpse in the middle of the city?

Keep it around! Sh!t like that is guaranteed to attract tourists. With the Order of the Sword pretty much defunct, Fortuna's gonna need a new way to keep its economy goin'

 

[Stylish Nero]

I dunno, having more characters was nice, but I just say what I said because they introduced him and did a ****-poor job of fleshing him out, or at least, they did a ****-poor job of certain origins of his. The Devil Bringer is such a prominent part of his character and we know so little about it beyond him being injured there in a demon attack prior to the game. Then there's pretty much however he's tied to Sparda :ermm: We needed to get an official artbook like five years after the fact to solidify that he's apparently Vergil's son, and even then, some specifics would have been nice >_<

I suppose when I say "silly from a narrative standpoint" I mean from the franchises whole narrative, because for being so prominent and important in DMC4, he has no legacy that extends beyond his game, aside from his vague connection to Vergil.



Secret Mission 1: F#ck up the Order in ten seconds

Secret Mission 2: F#ck up the Order without getting hit

Secret Mission 3: F#ck up the Order while avoiding lasers




Keep it around! Sh!t like that is guaranteed to attract tourists. With the Order of the Sword pretty much defunct, Fortuna's gonna need a new way to keep its economy goin'

The thing apparently was crafted using a lot of demons to have it function almost like the Angelos so what happened to all those demons after Nero killed Sanctus and removed its power source (himself). Did they just die out?

Actually being connected to Sparda (even if vague) to the point of having his blood is enough to make Nero relevant to the series as a whole. Just throw out the fact that he is Vergil's son but the mere fact he is connected to Sparda by blood alone makes him very prominent to the series because Sparda's very existence and actions shaped the DMC world to how it is today (in the timeline).

You don't need to make a new character who is extremely important in a arc or saga of a series prominent or evidentual prior to their introduction but as long as their is an aspect to their character that makes them relevant to the series as a whole (his blood connection to Sparda and being affiliated with Vergil).

I mean by all means wouldn't Lady be random or "silly from a narrative standpoint" as prior to DMC3 we never heard of Sparda sacrificing no priestess to seal away the demon world (the one aspect that makes Lady extremely relevant and important to DMC3) and DMC3 is a prequel Lady's existence was never implied (unless the ending of DMC2 could imply a plan to include a Lady like character in DMC in the next installment after DMC2) or mentioned prior to DMC3 and her role unlike Nero affects the world and a plays a role in the world building of DMC (as she is the descendant of a priestess who was sacrificed to seal away the demon world which plays a huge role in shaping the DMC universe and her blood can undo this seal).

I mean at least with Nero there was no extra aspect added to the lore of DMC to have them fit in (Lucia and Lady), Nero's current backstory and info already has enough to put him in the DMC series without having to add any extra aspects. As for the Order, DMC1 hinted or may have stated that Sparda ruled in the human world so Fortuna City and the Order mainly was just building upon that fact....well I guess Lady and the priestess was building upon the fact of Sparda sealing away the demon world....well got to thank DMC3 for adding more details to a rather vague concept in DMC1 (how did Sparda seal away the demon world?).

 

[TWOxACROSS]

I s'pose from a narrative aspect I just feel that much of Nero's past is such a big question mark - at least, maybe it's just lingering feelings from when the game first came out and we got practically nothin'. Over the years we've gotten more bits and pieces that makes it more tolerable, but at the time, boy-howdy did I wanna know more

 

[aoshi]

ZOMG !!! NERO IS A PLOT-HOLE!!!!!!

Here's the thing, Vergil's character had so much mystery that to this date, there are threads about this man.(about his relationship with his mother and what not). Even Nelo-Angelo was a mystery in DMC 1 and thanks to DMC 3 we got to know a bit more about Nelo-Angelo's past.And to this date, We don't know how vergil awakened his devil trigger unlike dante's since both dante and vergil are half-demons. Also, Nelo-Angelo's existence was explained after a game's gap(Devil may cry 2).

Yet, when it comes to nero, Its a plot-hole(And Not a mystery, Even though there are a ton of hints of him related to vergil).And the fact that he belonged to order in fortuna. His devil bringer is jus as mysterious as vergil's devil-trigger.

Some logic that is.

 

[VineBigBoss]

i have to strongly disagree here. think about thos epeople for a moment i dont think being killed for something you have no relation to is fair or right and in large numbers is even worse

i forget about that. regardless, people did die.

Yes, it shows a man clearly dying there. Then the troops of Sanctus shows up and starts fight the demons, probably in the meantime Trish arrives and evacuate the people.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

I wouldn't say Nero's necessarily a plot-hole, just that I find his backstory too big a question mark for how important of a character he is, especially considering that his lineage is supposed to be a big part of why he was important.

It's like...what if everyone emphasized Dante's lineage as a Son of Sparda (like they do), but then there was never any mention of Sparda, his exploits, and why he was such an important adversary to the demons.

 

[Stylish Nero]

ZOMG !!! NERO IS A PLOT-HOLE!!!!!!

Here's the thing, Vergil's character had so much mystery that to this date, there are threads about this man.(about his relationship with his mother and what not). Even Nelo-Angelo was a mystery in DMC 1 and thanks to DMC 3 we got to know a bit more about Nelo-Angelo's past.And to this date, We don't know how vergil awakened his devil trigger unlike dante's since both dante and vergil are half-demons. Also, Nelo-Angelo's existence was explained after a game's gap(Devil may cry 2).

Yet, when it comes to nero, Its a plot-hole(And Not a mystery, Even though there are a ton of hints of him related to vergil).And the fact that he belonged to order in fortuna. His devil bringer is jus as mysterious as vergil's devil-trigger.

Some logic that is.

A plot hole is something that contradicts the canon or certain facts of a story not an unexplained question.

Nero's backstory or concept is meant to be a waking mystery very similar to Sparda's to keep fans interested....its like milking a mystery or keeping a mystery behind to keep the player interested...well that was the plan. I mean sure we know what Sparda did and what he is but even then a lot of questions and mystery surrounds him (even Dante acknowledged that his old man is shrouded in mystery).

Even if they did explain Nero's backstory in a new DMC, they'll most likely generate more questions with a new topic or character for the sake of another sequel.

Like DMC5, Nero's past and origins are fully revealed to him Capcom pulls 3 stunts

A. You see a healthy humanoid Sparda standing somewhere at the end of the credits.

B. Explaining Nero's origins and his connection to Vergil just generates more questions but its directed to Vergil now instead of Nero.

C. A certain plot element in Nero's origins or backstory is used but left unanswered to generate more speculation such as the reason behind Nero's arm such as explaining why Nero has the blood of Sparda or how he is a relative but doesn't explain the arm and if they do use an explanation that generates more questions or possibilities.

D. ALL THREE

 

[aoshi]

A plot hole is something that contradicts the canon or certain facts of a story not an unexplained question.

Nero's backstory or concept is meant to be a waking mystery very similar to Sparda's to keep fans interested....its like milking a mystery or keeping a mystery behind to keep the player interested...well that was the plan. I mean sure we know what Sparda did and what he is but even then a lot of questions and mystery surrounds him (even Dante acknowledged that his old man is shrouded in mystery).

Even if they did explain Nero's backstory in a new DMC, they'll most likely generate more questions with a new topic or character for the sake of another sequel.

Like DMC5, Nero's past and origins are fully revealed to him Capcom pulls 3 stunts

A. You see a healthy humanoid Sparda standing somewhere at the end of the credits.

B. Explaining Nero's origins and his connection to Vergil just generates more questions but its directed to Vergil now instead of Nero.

C. A certain plot element in Nero's origins or backstory is used but left unanswered to generate more speculation such as the reason behind Nero's arm such as explaining why Nero has the blood of Sparda or how he is a relative but doesn't explain the arm and if they do use an explanation that generates more questions or possibilities.

D. ALL THREE

The problem i have when people whinge about nero's backstory is cuz DMC 4 was never meant to be an origins story. Nero is highly subjective to events in fortuna. Actually, Nero's arm reacts to everything supernatural in fortuna. It was as much a story element as a gameplay element. Nero does not have snatch ability when he faces dante in first mission. Snatch ability is in fact from a cutscene which constitutes as a story element than as a gameplay element. Same can be said with anima mercury which animates in-animate objects. The vines in the forest after nero's arm absorbs echidna's whatever. So i am not surprised when yamato reacted to nero's arm.

Juz because DMC 3 was an origin story of dante, I think DMC 4 is misinterpreted as another origin story due to mystery of devil bringer.

I face same BS with resident evil 5 as well. So much criticism on sheva being included in RE 5. The most unreasonable being her lack of resident evil history.

EDIT : And Nero is considered as a plot-hole since vergil is never known to be humanly involved to have a son and hence nero being vergil's son or mystery surrounding him speculates him as a plot-hole.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

I'm gonna have to go ahead and say that I didn't expect or misinterpret DMC4 to be an origin story. I just would have really liked to have had the ability to learn more about this new protagonist and how he fit into everything more than they gave us at the time.

To me Lady is a lot like Nero, but throughout DMC3, we learned her plight and her past. With Nero, all we really got was his plight (save Kyrie), with nothing about his past. We had to piece so much of Nero together after the fact from different sources, some of them shaky :/