Connection with Bayonetta

[Zero]

Forgive me for asking this as I've only watch cutscenes from Bayo, never actually played it. I know, I know. I should but....eh. *shrug*

My question is: Can we consider the connection between the Devil May Cry and Bayonetta series as canon? I'm aware that Dante has appeared in other cameos and those are not considered canon, just fanservice.

But what separates the Bayonetta connections as MORE than just fan service?

Personally, I think it was a cool little tidbit of info that Eva could've been a powerful witch...but I can't think of it as "canon" just because I like the idea of it...

 

[Gel]

No, if other games made by Capcom cannot be considered canon, Bayonetta sure can't either.
Kamiya only did DMC1( with Mikami) and the references Kamiya put in Bayo go against even the information we have in DMC1.
DMC1 canon says Sparda defeated Mundus and only later married a human woman.Bayo says it WAS Eva who made a pact with Sparda and defeat herself Mundus army.
You know, it's funny. A lot of people hate the fact Eva became an angel in DmC, but accept without discussion Eva was a witch in DMC( friend, I'm not talking about you.) Same with Nero's subject; If was Kamyia who said Nero was Vergil's, everybody would be fine.

 

[Zero]

I don't recall if DMC1 ever said Sparda married Eva AFTER Mundus was sealed or not. DMC never had a very good established timeline. *shrug* All Bayo said was that they "made a contract" or something.
From the wiki: Eva, a truly extraordinary witch, entered into contract with a legendary dark knight, and then faced the amassed armies of Inferno.
I guess that could mean they faced the demon army together...? Though DMC1 does state that Sparda "stood up against the legion alone"...so yeah I guess it does sort of contradict. -_- I'd forgotten about that quote.

At the risk of ****ing off the DmC fans on this forum, I won't say what I think of the angel thing either way.

However, the reason most fans complain about it stems from many things. The fact that the series was titled DEVIL may cry...not Angel May Cry or Little Nicky May Cry. Witches are pretty much just humans with magical abilities, so she's still considered human. And humanity (and subsequently, demons, these supposedly evil beings gaining humanity) was a big part of the story of DMC. "Tears are gift only humans have" -Dante DMC1

I think it's just a lot of fans have a problem with the fact that Dante and Vergil lost their "human sides" in the reboot. So they are these super half-angel-half-demon whatevers running around looking and acting like humans. No reason is given for them to look or act like humans....even when they DT they still look human. Yet that makes no sense, as there is nothing even slightly human about them.

Not to mention in mythology Nephilim are giant half-angel/half-humans...nothing demonic about them. Just a whole lot of things that don't make sense. Eva being a witch is just more palatable to some people.

Again, not trying to bash on the reboot, just making observations of the fanbase.

...and don't even get me started on Nero. There's another thread for that. XD

 

[Gel]

It was mentioned in DMC1 manual book Sparda defeated Mundus and all his army and later married Eva.
We can assume in Bayo, Kamiya is only playing with references, adding exactly nothing to DMC story.
Anyway, Eva being a witch ( or a pharmakis) is not absurd, but as as powerhouse who defeated herself hellish armies ( as Bayo puts it)is contradictory.
When I said " if people where told by Kamiya if Nero was Vergil's child" ( Nero's origin is absurd anyway), I was talking about the fact people give more credit to someone who only did the first game ( even if it was with guidance of other "creator"), than Capcom or even Itsuno, who did all the other games.

 

[Innsmouth]

I don't think it should be taken as a proof. Bayonetta has massive amount of nods toward different franchises of Kamiya. So I don't think you should take it serious unless you assume, Amaterasu and Claire Redfield and Trish all exist in same universe.

 

[Blue_Rose]

I don't recall if DMC1 ever said Sparda married Eva AFTER Mundus was sealed or not. DMC never had a very good established timeline. *shrug* All Bayo said was that they "made a contract" or something.
From the wiki: Eva, a truly extraordinary witch, entered into contract with a legendary dark knight, and then faced the amassed armies of Inferno.
I guess that could mean they faced the demon army together...? Though DMC1 does state that Sparda "stood up against the legion alone"...so yeah I guess it does sort of contradict. -_- I'd forgotten about that quote.

That "contract" was marriage. Like the vows or something. Bayonetta's description makes it seem as if Eva got something from Sparda in exchange for marriage which I don't think is the case because Sparda is not like that.

EDIT: I don't think Eva could've been a powerful witch or she wouldn't have been slaughtered by Mundus's demons that easily.

 

[Kam]

it's unofficially canon, in that kamiya signed off the rights to devil may cry to capcom and he's not allowed to do anything with that IP anymore, so as a result the bayonetta universe is littered with clues to the DMC universe.

There are two really obvious easter eggs, the first of which is Luka's family, the Redgraves, and especially Luka's father, Antonio Redgrave (there's hints in Dante's backstory that the name "Tony Redgrave" was borrowed from someone he once knew).

The second big clue are the bracers of time accessory, the description of which describes how they were created by a human woman named Eva after she joined forces with "A legedary dark knight" (sparda's title) to defeat the forces of inerno.

There are smaller clues littering the game, and apparently there's even a reference somewhere to Nell Goldstein (the gunsmith who made ebony and ivory) though I've never found it personally.

TL;DR kamiya filled bayonetta with so many DMC ties that it's a pretty safe bet if he still owned the DMC IP, the shared universe theory would be explicitly canon

 

[Innsmouth]

I dunno. It also has easter eggs from Okami, RE2, VIewtiful Joe and RE4. But I don't think easter eggs makes them canon. I think it's hard to tell.

 

[Kam]

I dunno. It also has easter eggs from Okami, RE2, VIewtiful Joe and RE4. But I don't think easter eggs makes them canon. I think it's hard to tell.

there are lines and in jokes that make sense if you have played those game, but the DMC jokes are the only ones that assert themselves as happening in that universe. The Redgrave family is closely tied to bayonetta personally, and an item bayonetta uses is said to have been personally crafted by eva and the unnamed "legendary dark knight".

It's quite a bit different than a random viewtiful joe catchphrase

 

[Innsmouth]

there are lines and in jokes that make sense if you have played those game, but the DMC jokes are the only ones that assert themselves as happening in that universe. The Redgrave family is closely tied to bayonetta personally, and an item bayonetta uses is said to have been personally crafted by eva and the unnamed "legendary dark knight".

It's quite a bit different than a random viewtiful joe catchphrase

well, I dunno. We see at the beginning funereal of Dr.Robotnik...which I think pretty clear is only a joke. I think Bayonetta don't takes all easter eggs so serious.

 

[Blue_Rose]

I dunno. It also has easter eggs from Okami, RE2, VIewtiful Joe and RE4. But I don't think easter eggs makes them canon. I think it's hard to tell.

Well the DMC ones are part of the actual gameplay mechanics. And considering Bayonetta is Dante's counterpart, hunting angels and all, we can say that it is canon if Kamiya still had the rights.

Oh, and Phantom and Gigapede. Enough said.

 

[Kam]

well, I dunno. We see at the beginning funereal of Dr.Robotnik...which I think pretty clear is only a joke. I think Bayonetta don't takes all easter eggs so serious.

"Eggman" is Enzo's condescending nickname for Rodin, because Rodin is bald, and it is literally the only thing Enzo can make fun of Rodin for even behind his back (though personally I think he rocks the bald look). You only hear it that one time because Enzo believes he's dead and it's safe to say.

Having a character randomly yell "flock off" or "henshin a go-go" is one thing, but this oddly specific piece of bayonetta history is entirely different. I can accept a bald man being called "eggman" as a meaningless coincidence. But having the original creator of DMC tell a story about "eva and a legendary dark knight" as they save the world from hell and then enter into a union, all being told in a universe where angels, demons, and earth have a history of getting involved with each other? That's too much to ignore

So I'm going to have to disagree with you.

 

[Vinosh]

Bayonetta's one accessory:
Bracelet of Time
Description: Eva, a truly extraordinary witch, entered into contract with a legendary dark knight, and then faced the amassed armies of Inferno. These bracelets were made by her hand, and those wearing them are said to become true masters of Witch Time at their very will.
Could then Bayonetta 3 playable Dante.

 

[V's patron]

I agree with Innsmouth cause I feel the shoutouts are just a wink and a nod to fans and are not meant to be taken seriously but that doesn't rule out future writers (for DMC or Bayonetta) from making more of them in a different story.

 

[Innsmouth]

"Eggman" is Enzo's condescending nickname for Rodin, because Rodin is bald, and it is literally the only thing Enzo can make fun of Rodin for even behind his back (though personally I think he rocks the bald look). You only hear it that one time because Enzo believes he's dead and it's safe to say.

Having a character randomly yell "flock off" or "henshin a go-go" is one thing, but this oddly specific piece of bayonetta history is entirely different. I can accept a bald man being called "eggman" as a meaningless coincidence. But having the original creator of DMC tell a story about "eva and a legendary dark knight" as they save the world from hell and then enter into a union, all being told in a universe where angels, demons, and earth have a history of getting involved with each other? That's too much to ignore

So I'm going to have to disagree with you.

ok. I don't think I can say it with 100% Though I think whole eggman is just node to SEGA games

 

[Innsmouth]

Well the DMC ones are part of the actual gameplay mechanics. And considering Bayonetta is Dante's counterpart, hunting angels and all, we can say that it is canon if Kamiya still had the rights.

Oh, and Phantom and Gigapede. Enough said.

True. Forgot about those 2. Though I think Gigapede is different from DMC3. Phantom though is pretty obvious...but. Now we have Bouser's leg in Bayo2...and I don't think mario can co-exist in Bayo's world

 

[Chancey289]

No, there is no connection.

 

[Kam]

No, there is no connection.

I've been away for a long time, but it's nice to see some things never change.

Yes, there is a connection.

ok. I don't think I can say it with 100% Though I think whole eggman is just node to SEGA games

oh that's right, I keep forgetting sega was involved in this game. Yeah, I can definitely see that being a cute nod to acknowledge their contribution

 

[Jak]

i still believe that there is. i can shrug off an easter egg or reference to something. but when people are name dropped and shown to have relevance to the current story being told and such, i start to see threads that suspect a connection

 

[Chancey289]

I've been away for a long time, but it's nice to see some things never change.

Yes, there is a connection.

Cross referencing Easter eggs doesn't mean it exist in the same universe as Devil May Cry.

Bayonetta makes a ton of references from movies to video games. Sonic the Hedgehog, Viewtiful Joe, Okami, hell, there's even an easter egg from Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back.

If you're gonna count one little cross referencing Easter egg as "proof" of Dante's existence in Bayonetta's world then you can't ignore the others. If you do then just accept it for what it is. A cross referencing easter egg and nothing more. It's just because Kamiya worked on both. It's common for people to reference their own work in other projects.