Stylish Nero
We Dem Boys!!
I find it odd that no one here (or almost anywhere) seems to be talking about this. Not just the cameo system but how Capcom seems to be implementing it into the campaign and co-op. I feel that this is rather important since this a pretty big change/alteration to the previous formula outside a potentially bootleg co-op mode so I made an isolated thread about this. Like I have a few questions and concerns about this system as well as interesting notes about it.
So what we know is that the game is primarily single player but has a Dark Souls like drop in, drop out multiplayer system where we are paired with a random player. Apparently no match making or player invite and Itsuno's reasoning was so players can make friends with new players each time (kind of bullshit to me and reeks of naive "trying too hard to be different and innovative" Japanese game design that Nintendo and many other Japanese devs are known for) and if there is noone playing the same level as you (get to that detail later) at the exact time you enter that level you matched with random online player data or if offline (random dev team player data). Now here is why tons of questions and issues arises.
1. They described one player as a guest so is it possible to just drop into someone's play session? So its not at random chance but something we can control. Is there a lobby we can wait to see who is playing and choose to just jump into those games? At what point can we jump in into another player's game/level? Can we say jump in during the middle or where ever and it automatically replaces the ghost data (which lets the other player know) and we can only assume the role of the character(s) the other player didn't select?
Is progression tied to the host so if say the guest is behind them or well dies/quits (I guess in this case they're replaced with player data) can the host still continue without them or progression is locked until both parties complete their respective battles/journey (not too much of an issue since we are no longer being timed for missions)
2. Next is the issue with player data. I have played other games with this system before like Bloodborne but those weren't a big deal since the combat there is more about effectiveness and not getting killed and having a set AI come help you didn't hinder how you normally played that game. With DMC the combat is more about combos and combat freedom and I wonder how different player data would react to a live player. Would their actions be the same each time? What data are they taking into account and how will it be implemented? My main concern is how dynamic will the AI for the player data will be or its not really taking player behavior into account but what their current moveset/build is? Is it player data for that level (the last level and stats the player who played that level was at with that character) or is it player data for that account in general for that character meaning the whole shebang. My worst fear is that its recorded and it plays out exactly how that player played that level with that character. I'm not hoping to coordinate with an AI but I just don't want it to get in my way or bug out for some reason.
Its not an issue when its on one side of the map doing its own thing but this could become an issue during actual co-op moments. However this does mean big implications for the original level/mission structure.
Before when I heard there will be some missions where we can choose between 2 or 3 characters I just thought we played that level as that character but it seems picking one character means you go down a different path with occasional crossover (if any at all) for that mission where the level is designed for that character (so no Grim Grip sections for V and Dante). So a Mission 7 with Nero is a different experience with a Mission 7 with V well from a level design perspective at least also a combat perspective too.
So this opens even more slew of questions for this idea too. Will story and dialogue aspects differ based on what character/path you have chosen? In the latest trailers we see V activate his DT (for what appears to be the first time) in a cutscene where the environment is the same as Tip 04. So will we miss that cutscene if we pick Nero instead? Are there certain upgrades and abilities we don't get if we don't play certain levels with certain characters? Are there boss fights in these type of missions and if so do we fight alongside the other players when fighting them or only certain character/routes come with a boss fight (or their own boss fight)?
The only concerns and questions I have for this system right now. Feel free to discuss this topic however you like.
So what we know is that the game is primarily single player but has a Dark Souls like drop in, drop out multiplayer system where we are paired with a random player. Apparently no match making or player invite and Itsuno's reasoning was so players can make friends with new players each time (kind of bullshit to me and reeks of naive "trying too hard to be different and innovative" Japanese game design that Nintendo and many other Japanese devs are known for) and if there is noone playing the same level as you (get to that detail later) at the exact time you enter that level you matched with random online player data or if offline (random dev team player data). Now here is why tons of questions and issues arises.
1. They described one player as a guest so is it possible to just drop into someone's play session? So its not at random chance but something we can control. Is there a lobby we can wait to see who is playing and choose to just jump into those games? At what point can we jump in into another player's game/level? Can we say jump in during the middle or where ever and it automatically replaces the ghost data (which lets the other player know) and we can only assume the role of the character(s) the other player didn't select?
Is progression tied to the host so if say the guest is behind them or well dies/quits (I guess in this case they're replaced with player data) can the host still continue without them or progression is locked until both parties complete their respective battles/journey (not too much of an issue since we are no longer being timed for missions)
2. Next is the issue with player data. I have played other games with this system before like Bloodborne but those weren't a big deal since the combat there is more about effectiveness and not getting killed and having a set AI come help you didn't hinder how you normally played that game. With DMC the combat is more about combos and combat freedom and I wonder how different player data would react to a live player. Would their actions be the same each time? What data are they taking into account and how will it be implemented? My main concern is how dynamic will the AI for the player data will be or its not really taking player behavior into account but what their current moveset/build is? Is it player data for that level (the last level and stats the player who played that level was at with that character) or is it player data for that account in general for that character meaning the whole shebang. My worst fear is that its recorded and it plays out exactly how that player played that level with that character. I'm not hoping to coordinate with an AI but I just don't want it to get in my way or bug out for some reason.
Its not an issue when its on one side of the map doing its own thing but this could become an issue during actual co-op moments. However this does mean big implications for the original level/mission structure.
Before when I heard there will be some missions where we can choose between 2 or 3 characters I just thought we played that level as that character but it seems picking one character means you go down a different path with occasional crossover (if any at all) for that mission where the level is designed for that character (so no Grim Grip sections for V and Dante). So a Mission 7 with Nero is a different experience with a Mission 7 with V well from a level design perspective at least also a combat perspective too.
So this opens even more slew of questions for this idea too. Will story and dialogue aspects differ based on what character/path you have chosen? In the latest trailers we see V activate his DT (for what appears to be the first time) in a cutscene where the environment is the same as Tip 04. So will we miss that cutscene if we pick Nero instead? Are there certain upgrades and abilities we don't get if we don't play certain levels with certain characters? Are there boss fights in these type of missions and if so do we fight alongside the other players when fighting them or only certain character/routes come with a boss fight (or their own boss fight)?
The only concerns and questions I have for this system right now. Feel free to discuss this topic however you like.
