Combat Overview Part 1

[Dominus]

Seriously? Fine, I'll start from the beginning, and explain in high detail why I do not like DMC3 for the HD collection.
Now, I'll explain why I loved DMC3 WITH the cheats. On the PS2, I was able to use Super Nelo Angelo and Super Sparda to constantly regenerate my health when I needed it... leaving me to utterly destroy the annoying enemies, while letting me enjoy the rest of the enemies by screwing around and trying to string together moves. I didn't have to worry about my life bar, I could just play the game for the gameplay alone and not worry about anything else.

Those "annoying" enemies weren't that difficult to deal with, and if you wanted to string combos together you could just play the first couple of missions like you see in most combo videos. The mists, birds etc, weren't in the first 3 missions.

In case you ask "Why did you platinum DMC1 and not care for 3?":
I found DMC1 to be forgiving. I don't need cheats to enjoy it. I got royally ****ed off during DMD due to the bosses, but I beat the game three or four times prior to attempting DMD to get as many Untouchables, Holy Waters, and other helpful items to aid me. The whole game was designed for the skilled, and the unskilled. The unskilled could still beat DMD and enjoy Super Dante with everyone else given they had invested more time collecting items. DMC3, not the case.. given, you can spend hours upon hours farming orbs to buy holy waters, but that was just silly... it takes way too long to rack up orbs. The enemies in DMC1 also revolved around strategy... like, the skilled could still take them on and kick their ass, but the unskilled could think carefully and exploit their weaknesses to beat them

See I don't get this argument about the "unskilled" not being able to enjoy DMC3. That's why there are different difficulty settings. Easy automatic, etc, and even in DMC3 you had the gold orb system (special edition), which is more forgiving than the yellow orb system. The DMD difficulty shouldn't be made easy just so everyone can beat it, its there for a reason. I don't see how DMC3 enemies didn't revolve around strategy either. Only some of the enemy types had more static difficulties/approach to them (e.g. the mists, red birds, metal knights, etc) but the other enemies you could approach in multiple ways.

 

[DarkSlayer54]

Those "annoying" enemies weren't that difficult to deal with, and if you wanted to string combos together you could just play the first couple of missions like you see in most combo videos. The mists, birds etc, weren't in the first 3 missions.

I would quickly get bored of the game and throw it on the shelf. There's a reason I don't play the DmC demo constantly...

See I don't get this argument about the "unskilled" not being able to enjoy DMC3. That's why there are different difficulty settings. Easy automatic, etc, and even in DMC3 you had the gold orb system (special edition), which is more forgiving than the yellow orb system. The DMD difficulty shouldn't be made easy just so everyone can beat it, its there for a reason. I don't see how DMC3 enemies didn't revolve around strategy either. Only some of the enemy types had more static difficulties/approach to them (e.g. the mists, red birds, metal knights, etc) but the other enemies you could approach in multiple ways.
But you could just play the PS2 version then????????

If I had a PS2, I would indeed still be playing DMC3 on it. That's besides the point though.
I've found DMC3 to be unforgiving. Despite the yellow orb system in DMC1, I still found it to be much easier due to the infinite untouchables I could collect. The DMD shouldn't be easy, but the game should be forgiving enough so that any player, skilled or not can beat it... given they put in enough time into the game to rack up items.This is a completely different discussion entirely though.

The DMC3 enemies were more about reaction times. The game rewarded the skilled players more. I can't just go into DMC3 and tear it apart, I have to have quick reflexes to do well... with DMC1 even if I suck, I can go in and use my knowledge to defeat enemies without breaking a sweat. Given, you still have to dodge in DMC1... but my point is that DMC3 takes it to a whole new level. Overall, I've found DMC3 to focus on faster gameplay.

 

[8BitHero]

I'm the only one who feels that something is very wrong these days?
The hate waves are becoming more aggressive(?) than normal, and the the demo has not changed much the situation, people are now using it to bash the game.
All this just makes me sad.

That's the way people are these days. Not just games, people. If you don't like something, you must HATE it.

 

[crush]

That's the way people are these days. Not just games, people. If you don't like something, you must HATE it.

I don't get it...Is it our generation? We didn't have these sort of issues in the past didn't we?

I would quickly get bored of the game and throw it on the shelf. The DMC3 enemies were more about reaction times. The game rewarded the skilled players more. I can't just go into DMC3 and tear it apart, I have to have quick reflexes to do well... with DMC1 even if I suck, I can go in and use my knowledge to defeat enemies without breaking a sweat. Given, you still have to dodge in DMC1... but my point is that DMC3 takes it to a whole new level. Overall, I've found DMC3 to focus on faster gameplay.

The wierdest part of DMC3 is it has very annoying enemies and stages, the people who rate it highly only play mission 2 and 18 and the "trial" stage where enemies DT. They aren't rating the game as a whole like they did to DMC4 and DMC2.
Most players won't even play bloody palace. Probably the reasons are...
1. it's too long and tiresome.
2. the enemies gets me very depressed somehow.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

I don't get it...Is it our generation? We didn't have these sort of issues in the past didn't we?

The internet allows hatred to simmer, boil, and persist a lot longer than it used to.

 

[vergilthedemonking]

Seriously? Fine, I'll start from the beginning, and explain in high detail why I do not like DMC3 for the HD collection.

The HD Collection has the cheat, but it disables trophies and the ability to save/load. In other words, by using the cheat code the game forces me to start from scratch each and every time I choose to play. Thus, forcing me to ignore the cheats.

Now I'll get into why I dislike DMC3 without super characters. To begin with, I find the levels annoyingly designed. The enemies were also annoyingly designed... I wouldn't say they were hard, but just annoying. Most of the enemies such as the blood bats, the angels with wings that served as shields, the mist thing that only became solid behind you I found to be aggravating. I had absolutely no fun in killing them, and they always felt like an obstacle rather than a treat. With those demons I couldn't just do whatever I wanted, I had to pick a strategy and constantly reuse it to get passed them. What made each individual level difficult was the lack of items, mixed with the annoying levels that have actually killed me on occasion. These two things made me hate experimentation, and I mainly focused on simply getting enemies out of the way rather than enjoying the gameplay. The bosses were no different than any other DMC... simply a pain in the butt. There's nothing to say about them, I abused royal guard to exploit some of them... but even then they were very hard.
It took me over a month to beat DMC3 once... while I platinum'd DMC1 in the first week.

Now, I'll explain why I loved DMC3 WITH the cheats. On the PS2, I was able to use Super Nelo Angelo and Super Sparda to constantly regenerate my health when I needed it... leaving me to utterly destroy the annoying enemies, while letting me enjoy the rest of the enemies by screwing around and trying to string together moves. I didn't have to worry about my life bar, I could just play the game for the gameplay alone and not worry about anything else.

In case you ask "Why did you platinum DMC1 and not care for 3?":
I found DMC1 to be forgiving. I don't need cheats to enjoy it. I got royally ****ed off during DMD due to the bosses, but I beat the game three or four times prior to attempting DMD to get as many Untouchables, Holy Waters, and other helpful items to aid me. The whole game was designed for the skilled, and the unskilled. The unskilled could still beat DMD and enjoy Super Dante with everyone else given they had invested more time collecting items. DMC3, not the case.. given, you can spend hours upon hours farming orbs to buy holy waters, but that was just silly... it takes way too long to rack up orbs. The enemies in DMC1 also revolved around strategy... like, the skilled could still take them on and kick their ass, but the unskilled could think carefully and exploit their weaknesses to beat them.

EDIT: Also, if you ask "Why did you enjoy re-using strategies in DMC1 to exploit enemies and not 3?":
I only had to exploit weaknesses of enemies during a few levels of Very Hard and DMD. After beating DMD I went back to normal to just string together attacks and have fun. In DMC3, I feel limited since I hate fighting the annoying enemies which makes me feel like simply getting them out of the way. DMC1 isn't like this, even the Phantom's I find fun on normal since I can just dodge around them and spam Ebony and Ivory without the use of jumping on their spike. With Super Dante it's even funner, which is why I beat DMD in the first place. Simply put, DMC3 made me re-use strategies due to pure annoyance unrelated to difficulty. DMC1 forced me to use strategies due to difficulty.

Lol, when i read this you just sound like a noob to me. For me cheating ruins the whole gaming experience. And i've bought the HD collection to and i know what you mean but i felt much more satisfied to finish dante must die and vergil must die without the cheats. It felt like an accomplishment. But yeah everyone has their own opinion.. atleast your supporting DmC which makes me happy

 

[TWOxACROSS]

The demo is suppose to be a small taste of the full game and since the demo has glitches there's a good indication that the full game will have them as well. Normally since its a demo you would think since its a demo the glitches are ok and will be fixed but NT has been showin off demos in various places for awhile now so you would think the demo would be glitch free as much as its been used but its not and the biggest glitch is the boss fight where poison decides not to move and become invincible. The ps3 has framerate drops(for me at least) from time to time too. Although i doubt most of the people hating the game are aware of these things and just focus on the no manual lock on and SSS evade axe combination.

I still don't believe that's true. It was already said the demo was a recent build, but not of the final product. There's also the fact that people keep forgetting about demos is how they're a small bit of code ripped from the larger, complete piece. If anyone knows coding, messing with anything can cause unwelcome problems elsewhere. Even then, half the gltiches are cosmetic and have no effect on the game. About the only annoying one is "Flight Mode." There also taking feedback, so we can only hope they address the things worth address (game breakers and framerate).

And you know what? I can't consistently do the Trinity SSSmash. The enemies just won't let me, it's gotten to the point where it seems you have to completely go out of your way to do it under a specific set of circumstances that doesn't happen unless you're lucky, or take the time to set it up, at which point I'd rather just play the game the way it was meant to be played. Of course, Trinity SSSmash can still happen, but...it's really not all that easy, and I'm moderately great at the demo So the people who can do it are probably better, which to me makes their perception of "easy" a little skewed >.<

Although, because I've kept trying to do it, I've found the enemy AI somewhat ingenious. When you're fighting the Hell Knight surrounded by Stygians, the Stygians make it sure to constantly be on all sides of you and the Knight, so that when you pull out Arbiter, they're ready to try and catch you stuck in one of its longer attack animations.

 

[wallenb]

I still don't believe that's true. It was already said the demo was a recent build, but not of the final product. There's also the fact that people keep forgetting about demos is how they're a small bit of code ripped from the larger, complete piece. If anyone knows coding, messing with anything can cause unwelcome problems elsewhere. Even then, half the gltiches are cosmetic and have no effect on the game. About the only annoying one is "Flight Mode." There also taking feedback, so we can only hope they address the things worth address (game breakers and framerate).

How much time does it take to figure out how to discover flight mode? I can only picture it in my head, that people are smothering the controller, begging for glitches. I havent seen one glitch, on ps3, since day 1 of my download. Except the stock e&i, which i think is a pretty damn good glitch. Reminds me of JCing. Its hard at first, but becomes a nice different route to take from time to time.

And you know what? I can't consistently do the Trinity SSSmash. The enemies just won't let me, it's gotten to the point where it seems you have to completely go out of your way to do it under a specific set of circumstances that doesn't happen unless you're lucky, or take the time to set it up, at which point I'd rather just play the game the way it was meant to be played. Of course, Trinity SSSmash can still happen, but...it's really not all that easy, and I'm moderately great at the demo So the people who can do it are probably better, which to me makes their perception of "easy" a little skewed >_<

I sometimes use the demon evade to jack up my style meter, but i don't spam it constantly. Just like i wont spam anything in any DMC game no matter how cheap it is to get a tripple S. I mean whats the point after that?

Although, because I've kept trying to do it, I've found the enemy AI somewhat ingenious. When you're fighting the Hell Knight surrounded by Stygians, the Stygians make it sure to constantly be on all sides of you and the Knight, so that when you pull out Arbiter, they're ready to try and catch you stuck in one of its longer attack animations.

I was just thinking the same thing. I wiff so many times with the ax. Its all about position and timing, which is kinda hard if your not used to DMC in the first place. Games like GoW just want you to smash buttons and presto! you win. Also the enemies are a lot faster in this game. Theres always grunts in DMC and in DmC these guys run around and try to surround you, they try to anticipate you falling and keep their distance a lot of the times. Not really a big deal for us i guess, but for the newbies, thats gotta be annoying.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

How much time does it take to figure out how to discover flight mode? I can only picture it in my head, that people are smothering the controller, begging for glitches. I havent seen one glitch, on ps3, since day 1 of my download. Except the stock e&i, which i think is a pretty damn good glitch. Reminds me of JCing. Its hard at first, but becomes a nice different route to take from time to time.

I still sorta feel that the glitches are something that really don't happen too often, and the ones that do aren't all that troublesome. I still don't know how the flight mode can happen, and I do feel like sometimes people are finding glitches by doing things with the controller that might not ever happen in regular play. That's how a lot of classic bugs get through, because the devs deem the bug unnecessary to fix because the circumstances of causing it are too strict, or are outside what can be done in regular play. Flight mode would be something to take care of though, and I would love for them to keep Ricoshot Stocking in :3

I sometimes use the demon evade to jack up my style meter, but i don't spam it constantly. Just like i wont spam anything in any DMC game no matter how cheap it is to get a tripple S. I mean whats the point after that?

I like to use it that way too. It's like, if I can plan on using it within the seconds before an enemy attacks, then I'll definitely try. But I don't sit around waiting for that opportune moment when I can pull off a Trinity SSSmash. I could have half the guys dead and be at an A or higher in the time it takes set it up. Exploiting to get a SSS isn't a new thing by any means, and with the video I've constantly showed before, it's one of my favorite strategies for Orb Farming. Trinity SSSmash is pretty much just as easy as grouping a crap ton of people together and doing Million Stabs on them all at once. Actually...It's unless the Stygians magically align themselves just right, they don't bunch together neatly like enemies do in DMC3, in fact, the grunts that Nero (the player) was catching in Million Stabs to get that SSS were stupid enough to jump right in front of him! The Stygians actually take the time to constantly strafe around, keep within close distance, and flank you, and usually the only time you get surrounded in the classics is if the enemies actually spawned around you, or you put yourself in that situation :/

I was just thinking the same thing. I wiff so many times with the ax. Its all about position and timing, which is kinda hard if your not used to DMC in the first place. Games like GoW just want you to smash buttons and presto! you win. Also the enemies are a lot faster in this game. Theres always grunts in DMC and in DmC these guys run around and try to surround you, they try to anticipate you falling and keep their distance a lot of the times. Not really a big deal for us i guess, but for the newbies, thats gotta be annoying.

That is rather true. You do need to be more precise if you're using the Arbiter, not to mention if you're wailing on the Hell Knight, those Stygians are going to try to take advantage of those slower animations. The Stygians are still on par with some of the other stuff like Wraths and Sacrecrows as far as sandbags go, but they still have a bit more smarts to them. On the demo's SoS, I actually find the Stygians more annoying that any other grunt enemy in DMC - they don't just block, they block often. Take too long a pause during your combo string and they will block the rest of it.

 

[wallenb]

I want to point out that the parry system isn't as easy as a lot of people are saying. Yea sure, parrying poison becomes something of second nature once you've beat hear 5 times or more, but with other enemies, its very difficult, especially if you're trying to get a flawless victory. The grunts are probably the hardest for me to parry and on DMD their second attack, for me, is impossible.

Standing around and waiting to pull off a demon evade is quite possibly the worst example of being stylish, and the reward is a little to great. The style system should run down if your not doing anything, especially since you can end up knocking enemies away from you, you still have angel/demon grapple to instantly attack, so why not let the style system be a little bit more of a dick.

JCing has always looked glitchy. In any game. DMC4 dante looks like a strobe light when played on a professional level. To me, thats really not apealing and it never motivated me to do that. Like canceling your dash with RG and swtiching back to trickster to be able to dash indefinitely. Thats just to much work for me, espeically when dashing and dodging are already easy to preform. All of these "pro" dmc players playing DmC and completely looking silly with their above human speed on the controller, that just makes Dante look really spazzed out, they should try switching weapons in between each JC, and let the weapon finish the animation. I think that would be really cool to see.

The best thing about this game(demo) is that it gives you a ton of possibilities for any given situation. You can say that fighting the fire/ice demon are limited, but i actually have fun fighting them. Letting the ice demon freeze the fire guy, demon evading the ice guy and getting that little extra boost for the scythe. Once other weapons come into play, the combat is going to be so much more fun.

Just a little over a month now guys!!

 

[DarkSlayer54]

Lol, when i read this you just sound like a noob to me. For me cheating ruins the whole gaming experience. And i've bought the HD collection to and i know what you mean but i felt much more satisfied to finish dante must die and vergil must die without the cheats. It felt like an accomplishment. But yeah everyone has their own opinion.. atleast your supporting DmC which makes me happy

I never beat DMD on DMC3. There was no point since I had everything I needed for the PS2. If a game is too annoying for me, I won't bother playing it. DMC3 would **** me off for countless hours before I could start to have fun. Thus my need for the cheats.

I see cheats as a way that allows the player to scale the difficulty to his/her preference.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

The biggest problem is giving desirable content that can only be unlocked when you've done damn near everything. As great as it is to have a bunch of different costumes, if you've played the game enough to have completed nearly every difficulty, by that time you get sorta burnt out on the game.

 

[Frazz]

Personally, I think the demon evade could only be seen as easy by the pros who can JC as we are no strangers to timing but I am not amazing at JC so it isn't as easy for me. I think the guys who nailed DMC3 on DMD are being too pedantic - I never really use the other evades cuz I want to have a more difficult experience, with Poison I don't hang back instead I go right up to her hands for that extra challenge! When I get the full game on the Bob Barbas fight I'll wait for his first attack and then engage him!! The game is difficult if you want it to be - don't spam moves or use demon evade and try the Poison battle without parrying

 

[TWOxACROSS]

That's sorta my point. A lot of the people constantly bringing up how it's too easy are a lot of the people who are really damn good at games on extremely high difficulties, meaning their definition of "easy" can be slightly skewed to the point where even the standard difficulties are thought of as easy. It also skews the opinion of "doing this or that is too easy," when they've got incredibly great timing and precision to perform certain things.

I think the mark of true ease would come in seeing how well a random guy you pull in off the street does this stuff. It'd only be "casual" if that random dude could pull off things that we see in something like that Metal and GO DmC vid. Hell, I'm marginally great at it, and I still can't Jump Cancel Helm Breakers or Drops consistently...I can't even figure out how to do that Wall Glide more than once, but I know it's a mechanic in the game.

 

[wallenb]

The biggest problem is giving desirable content that can only be unlocked when you've done damn near everything. As great as it is to have a bunch of different costumes, if you've played the game enough to have completed nearly every difficulty, by that time you get sorta burnt out on the game.

I've been playing games for like 25 years now, and i have a huge collection thats just sits and waits for me. Sure i can get burnt out of a game, and i usually do after the second playthrough, but, i usually play every game i have at least 1once a year! from start to finish, and games i don't get to, its a little more better that way because i forget things in the game, maybe not the story but puzzles usually kick my ass after not playing for so long.

 

[wallenb]

That's sorta my point. A lot of the people constantly bringing up how it's too easy are a lot of the people who are really damn good at games on extremely high difficulties, meaning their definition of "easy" can be slightly skewed to the point where even the standard difficulties are thought of as easy. It also skews the opinion of "doing this or that is too easy," when they've got incredibly great timing and precision to perform certain things.

I think the mark of true ease would come in seeing how well a random guy you pull in off the street does this stuff. It'd only be "casual" if that random dude could pull off things that we see in something like that Metal and GO DmC vid. Hell, I'm marginally great at it, and I still can't Jump Cancel Helm Breakers or Drops consistently...I can't even figure out how to do that Wall Glide more than once, but I know it's a mechanic in the game.

My nephew, (loves the game btw) got his ass handed to him on devil hunter. He did't do anything special at all, not even 1 pause combo and all i could think was, try something else!!!!! The controls are actually really hard to wrap your head around too, so trying to explain it was met with def ears. I told him to play DMD and he started playing but couldn't beat the first grunts because he couldn't beak their guard, and then he just shot them...................over and over again...........

 

[TWOxACROSS]

My nephew, (loves the game btw) got his ass handed to him on devil hunter. He did't do anything special at all, not even 1 pause combo and all i could think was, try something else!!!!! The controls are actually really hard to wrap your head around too, so trying to explain it was met with def ears. I told him to play DMD and he started playing but couldn't beat the first grunts because he couldn't beak their guard, and then he just shot them...................over and over again...........

Hah, well, for reference, has he played any other hack 'n' slash games before, like God of War or antyhing?

I'd say no matter what, just because of DMC's controls, or at most, the spirit of its mechanics like launching, juggling, pause combos, and cancels (the concept, not whether they're easy or not) still makes DMC and by proxy DmC one of the most satisfyingly challenging action games around, if only because learning the controls opens up so much to the player, instead of a lot of games relying on enemy damage boosts for higher difficulties.

 

[Bleiebruker]

does angel dodge do something other than the teleport thingy?

 

[TWOxACROSS]

does angel dodge do something other than the teleport thingy?

Nah, it's main focus is to get you farther away from danger than a normal dodge would, and offers more invincibility frames.

 

[Bleiebruker]

then compared to the demon dodge, the angel dodge is weak.