Character Design Comparison Analysis (Beware: Alot of Redundant Info)

[wallenb]

I think his coat is black. Or really dark grey.


The grapple was not as devistating as a barrage of mini missles, so using it would give you an oppertunity for a chance at raising your rating instead of completely destroying them.
Basically its all about the players preference.
I think the combat in DmC is more accessable than dmc4 especially if your new to dmc. And noone is going to force you to use the whip technique, again its still a matter of play style, but I still think the controls are more refined than before, a lot less cluttered.

 

[CoolDemon]

In DMC 3-4 Dante is very cold to his enemies. He shot Echidna, without giving her so much as the dignity of a look, as she mourned her forest and children. He blew Agnus away like a mob hit man. He assassinated Sanctus and slaughtered guards horribly in front of innocents. He surfs on his eniemies as well. I'm not saying this stuff is bad, it's not, but don't act like it never happened.

Is Agnus evil? Yes.
Is Echidna evil? Yes.
Is Sanctus evil? Yes.

Just because their evil personality has not been portrayed through actions does not mean you should be merciful towards them. A evil being like Echidna would eat or digest a human. Imagine children being swallowed or taken by Echidna. She would eat them...And Agnus and Sanctus. You know what they would do? They would kill Kyrie if that was the price for world domination. Oh wait.. that's what Sanctus tried to, and Agnus was in on it too!

Dante shooting Agnus like that was intended to be cool, and it KINDA was. But it's not a thing you should look at and say "Wow he shot him without any remorse". The whole scene was meant to be cool. A cool guy shoting down a evil guy with a cool line.

In a story when you are to portray a monster, you should do it to certain depth. For example the monsters in Devil May Cry are cool, ugly and powerful monsters that are VICTIMS to main character. Their purpose is not many.
For example one could make a demon a npc for Dante to interact with. a "Good" demon.
But demons have been mostly "Slay the monster" purpose in DMC.

DMC is first and foremost a gameplay game and story as 2nd. If DMC was a story game one would naturally portray the demons and how they are. Portray the cruelty that demons cause on their victims.
If DMC people really potrayed the demons well - you would see that they are not creatures you should be careful with.
But DMC is a chill gameplay game not a story game.
So with that said Dante is not evil or bad. He's very kind. Every good character who comes in his way are influenced positively. And every evil character are affected negatively.

Bad guy = Dante kills you
Good guy = Dante shows love.


DUNGEON SIEGE 2 ADDON:
http://dungeonsiege2.net/ds2fun/image/monster/ds2_m_c_xedm_084_pos_1.jpg

That "monster" was once a female elf. But then a Surgeon (a boss monster) killed or capture that elf and turned her into a monster. Cutting off her arms and replacing it with Giant arms etc.

You see that the Surgeon bosses in Dungeon Siege are very evil. This is something you can see when killing monsters and observing how they have different monster parts on their body.

http://dungeonsiege2.net/ds2fun/image/monster/ds2_m_c_edm_065_pos_1.jpg

MY POINT with Dungeon siege:
The monsters in DMC have not been portrayed well. If they were you would say "Kill them all!". But then again DMC isn't supposed to be a realistic type of game.

 

[Tiran]

What I'm saying is there's a difference between executing someone and flipping them off while you do it. For a character like Kratos uncaring mercy free is fine, but Dante?

 

[ZeroLove]

It is no secret that Dante enjoys killing demons. He enjoys the killing and have fun while doing so. Then it doesn't matter that the demons are evil, this is Dante we talk about. He thinks it is fun to kill! He enjoys it! He's even making a party out of it. So he does indeed have a sadistic side to him.

 

[Tiran]

Yeah. So, why deny it? Dante's whole life is killing those who kill. He doesn't regret it. In real life it would harden any man or drive him insane. I like the fact that in fiction we can disguise it as a pleasurable. We all have that side of us that needs to express or relieve ourselves through some intense or violent act.

 

[CoolDemon]

What I'm saying is there's a difference between executing someone and flipping them off while you do it. For a character like Kratos uncaring mercy free is fine, but Dante?

The scene with bullet to Agnus head was supposed to be looked at in a cool perspective.
DMC is more about gameplay than story(and characters). And from DMC 3 to 4 they have made Dante into a a machine that spits out cool or cheesy lines.
How can you say Dante is evil or bad or sadistic considering DMC games have not portrayed what Agnus, Echidna and Sanctus are capable of? And again the Agnus kill isn't something you should watch and go thinking "Does Dante enjoy killing?". The fact that there was a hole in the paper which Dante shot Agnus shows that the scene was not intended to show Dante being evil. The scene was there to show "He's cool" or something similar, but certainly not "He's evil".

You guys talk about Dante killing demons or bad humans as if they are victims. You haven't seen what Agnus or the demons have done in their lifetime.

2:02- Demons slaughtering humans

If there is one thing that Dante and we should know it's that DEMONS are MOST of the time evil. They will kill you.
Dante in DMC 2 didn't kill the demon Lucia. Why? Because he knows the difference between good and evil.
He cared for Trish. I thought she was a demon? Why did Dante not kill her? Because he's good.

 

[Vezild]

I agree 100% with the "less angry Nero" statement. That is EXACTLY how I feel. That is not to say I don't like this Dante (I thought Nero was pretty cool for the first few missions of DMC 4). I'd say the black hair is just that--black hair. But overall this was a nice analysis from what I've skimmed. A little biased here and there but very nice. I applaud you!

 

[Vezild]

The scene with bullet to Agnus head was supposed to be looked at in a cool perspective.
DMC is more about gameplay than story(and characters). And from DMC 3 to 4 they have made Dante into a a machine that spits out cool or cheesy lines.
How can you say Dante is evil or bad or sadistic considering DMC games have not portrayed what Agnus, Echidna and Sanctus are capable of? And again the Agnus kill isn't something you should watch and go thinking "Does Dante enjoy killing?". The fact that there was a hole in the paper which Dante shot Agnus shows that the scene was not intended to show Dante being evil. The scene was there to show "He's cool" or something similar, but certainly not "He's evil".

You guys talk about Dante killing demons or bad humans as if they are victims. You haven't seen what Agnus or the demons have done in their lifetime.

2:02- Demons slaughtering humans

If there is one thing that Dante and we should know it's that DEMONS are MOST of the time evil. They will kill you.
Dante in DMC 2 didn't kill the demon Lucia. Why? Because he knows the difference between good and evil.
He cared for Trish. I thought she was a demon? Why did Dante not kill her? Because he's good.

In real life, CoolDemon (haven't seen you around for a while ), or in a realistic/modern story, killing--whether it is for good or for evil--is morally evil. I say morally because you have to think--what if whoever you killed though you were the bad guy?
But, as I've said before, I feel the characters in DMC could have been developed more. If Agnus or Sanctus or Arkham or whoever Dante was fighting had been developed more, then what I just said would make more sense. But we only see them as evil people, so you have the most reason here.
EDIT: SORRY FOR THE DOUBLE POST.

 

[CoolDemon]

In real life, CoolDemon (haven't seen you around for a while ), or in a realistic/modern story, killing--whether it is for good or for evil--is morally evil. I say morally because you have to think--what if whoever you killed though you were the bad guy?
But, as I've said before, I feel the characters in DMC could have been developed more. If Agnus or Sanctus or Arkham or whoever Dante was fighting had been developed more, then what I just said would make more sense. But we only see them as evil people, so you have the most reason here.
EDIT: SORRY FOR THE DOUBLE POST.

I was banned for a week.

I agree with you characters should be developed more. There is a reason why in a short story you should limit yourself to few characters. But think about DMC serie is it a gameplay type of game first or story? I would say DMC is a gameplay game first and story second. And it's not a type of game that was supposed to be very realistical.

Now you are right, if Agnus, Sanctus or Arkham had more development what you said COULD be right. That Arkham, Sanctus and Agnus are humans and not entirely evil. But it could go other way also: the character development in form of Arkham, Agnus and Sanctus story could show three humans embracing evil side or BEING evil. But just like those bad guys Dante hasn't gotten much character development. We see only his outer reaction.

But it would be stupid to try to think of how Dante feels when he kills demons in DMC. It would be like how Mario feels when he kills turtles. I say this because DMC does not come off as a realistical game. The law is "demons or turtles are bad, Mario/Dante kills them". There is no "how do you feel about killing that turtle/demon?".

Then again, when i think about it: Dante is half demon. And demons in DMC love to kill. So perhaps Dante's demon side loves killing? That makes sense. But if Dante's demon side makes him have a urge to kill, then how come we haven't seen that before? The answer i believe lies in same thing i have said before: DMC does not seem to be a story game or a story focused on realistical things.

And please distinguish a game from story. In a novel or short story or movie we see a character killing enemies. In a game WE kill the enemies ourself. The same killing we do when we play DMC is same type that Dante does most of time in the story.



Killing a demon or a evil human who wants to kill people doesn't sound morally evil.
You see a evil being who's going to kill a innoncent being. What do you do? You kill it.
You kill it for sake of stopping it. You don't do it because you enjoy killing.

 

[Vezild]

I was banned for a week.

I agree with you characters should be developed more. There is a reason why in a short story you should limit yourself to few characters. But think about DMC serie is it a gameplay type of game first or story? I would say DMC is a gameplay game first and story second. And it's not a type of game that was supposed to be very realistical.

Now you are right, if Agnus, Sanctus or Arkham had more development what you said COULD be right. That Arkham, Sanctus and Agnus are humans and not entirely evil. But it could go other way also: the character development in form of Arkham, Agnus and Sanctus story could show three humans embracing evil side or BEING evil. But just like those bad guys Dante hasn't gotten much character development. We see only his outer reaction.

But it would be stupid to try to think of how Dante feels when he kills demons in DMC. It would be like how Mario feels when he kills turtles. I say this because DMC does not come off as a realistical game. The law is "demons or turtles are bad, Mario/Dante kills them". There is no "how do you feel about killing that turtle/demon?".

Then again, when i think about it: Dante is half demon. And demons in DMC love to kill. So perhaps Dante's demon side loves killing? That makes sense. But if Dante's demon side makes him have a urge to kill, then how come we haven't seen that before? The answer i believe lies in same thing i have said before: DMC does not seem to be a story game or a story focused on realistical things.

And please distinguish a game from story. In a novel or short story or movie we see a character killing enemies. In a game WE kill the enemies ourself. The same killing we do when we play DMC is same type that Dante does most of time in the story.



Killing a demon or a evil human who wants to kill people doesn't sound morally evil.
You see a evil being who's going to kill a innoncent being. What do you do? You kill it.
You kill it for sake of stopping it. You don't do it because you enjoy killing.

I agree completely with the game coming first. And I guess you're right about a game being different than a novel or a short story or a movie...WE are the ones who control the main character so in a way WE are the ones killing. But if DMC were more...cinematic, I guess, it would have given us a chance to see the innerworkings of Dante. Of course, it would be hypocritical because of the gameplay (which, again, is most important).

 

[CoolDemon]

I agree completely with the game coming first. And I guess you're right about a game being different than a novel or a short story or a movie...WE are the ones who control the main character so in a way WE are the ones killing. But if DMC were more...cinematic, I guess, it would have given us a chance to see the innerworkings of Dante. Of course, it would be hypocritical because of the gameplay (which, again, is most important).

I see the flaws of DMC. The fact that we know little about Dante's thoughts. The fact that demons are supposed to be evil beings yet we see very little scenes of them torturing, eating or killing a human. But i also know that DMC is mostly a gameplay game just like Mario. And that DMC story isn't the main focus. And that's really bad for DMC considering that it has also story, but hey i don't know what kind of limitations the developers must have.

 

[Tiran]

Obviously the kind that prevents them from crafting a compelling narrative.

...And don't say DMC 3 had a 'best story', either. I'll just say "Compared to what? Transformers was the best film Micheal Bay's ever directed."

 

[CoolDemon]

Obviously the kind that prevents them from crafting a compelling narrative.

...And don't say DMC 3 had a 'best story', either. I'll just say "Compared to what? Transformers was the best film Micheal Bay's ever directed."

What? I don't understand what your trying to say

 

[V's patron]

@re rave-
to answer your question stated in #3, Beowulf would be an example of a random mythological name plastered on a creature.

I think i have created a monster tho with people debating Dante's morality.
But would you guys want Dante to be conflicted by a moral decision?

 

[Tiran]

@re rave-
to answer your question stated in #3, Beowulf would be an example of a random mythological name plastered on a creature.

I think i have created a monster tho with people debating Dante's morality.
But would you guys want Dante to be conflicted by a moral decision?

That would create tension for any life or death situation in a story. Tension is something Devil May Cry (and many games, to be fair) never has due to the characters nonchalant attitude towards everything.

 

[Railazel]

@re rave-
to answer your question stated in #3, Beowulf would be an example of a random mythological name plastered on a creature.

That's quite funny actually, I've heard somewhere that Geryon and Beowulf's names were switched. Geryon would've been a much more accurate name for Beowulf.

As for enemies with accurate mythological names:
Cerberus
Dullahan (sort of)
The Fallen
Leviathan
Echidna
Bael & Rusalka (Dagon doesn't count)
Agni & Rudra
Beelzebubs (sort of)
Bolverk, Freki & Geri (sort of- "Bolverk" was an alias for Odin. Freki and Geri were Odin's pet wolves)

 

[ReRave]

That's quite funny actually, I've heard somewhere that Geryon and Beowulf's names were switched. Geryon would've been a much more accurate name for Beowulf.
Yes, I heard of that mix-up, somethign about the carriage being
that of Beowulf or something. Doesn't make much sense either way, seeing that Geryon had three bodies, that were joined at the hip and niether of the two creatures in DMC3 resemble this absurd form. Neither Beowulf nor Geryon are Christian demons.

As for enemies with accurate mythological names:
Cerberus, In modern canon not a Christian theme. Not a demon either.
Dullahan (sort of) never heard of him
The Fallen again, who's that?
Leviathan Absolutely not, even though Leviathan was a biblical myth, it originally was a creature of water.
Echidna Echidna was not a demon and has nothing to do with Christianity, from which DMC supposedly took inspiration
Bael & Rusalka (Dagon doesn't count)
Agni & Rudra Both of them were gods in Hinduism, not demons.
Beelzebubs (sort of)
Bolverk, Freki & Geri (sort of- "Bolverk" was an alias for Odin. Freki and Geri were Odin's pet wolves) Odin wasn't a demon, but a god.

 

[Railazel]

@ReRave- You do realize that they don't have to be the same as the beings they are based off of right? I've never heard of a game where a character is the exact same thing as the myth he/she is based off of. So obviously there are major differences between the characters and there mythological counterparts. And the last time I checked, DMC is slightly based off of Christianity but not in totality, so of course it isn't going to stick with Christian themes and mythology especially since there's no mention of an actual God (though Nero alludes to one in DMC4 but that could be just because of his religious background).

Now to clear up some confusion for you. Dullahans are basically headless riders but the ones in DMC3 are just headless knights. The Fallen are the fallen angels from DMC3.

So I would like to ask why do you think DMC is purely Christian- based? It only takes inspiration from Christianity, but that's about it.

 

[ReRave]

So I would like to ask why do you think DMC is purely Christian- based? It only takes inspiration from Christianity, but that's about it.

Putting it that way, I don't even know why I was so fixated on the Christianity theme. It always struck me as that, because there are no actual Japanese Kami in the game, they would stick with one kind of Western demon, therefore only basing their designs and names on one cutural setting: Christianity is obviously very dominant in the games. Would not have been the first time, that the East took something Western and messed it up beyond recognition.

Well, let's see...
Dante (obviously Dante Alghieri)
Vergil (Roman poet, not exactly a Christian, but nonethelss in the Divine Comedy, as one of the virtuos heathen)
Lucia (St Lucia)

You are right, I have no reason to assume it's only Christian, since those are the only names I can think off from the top of my head.

 

[V's patron]

Well some of the designs for the demons might be yokai-ish.