Innsmouth
Sleeping DMC Fan
I didn't want to spoil it. But yeah. "Eric" isn't completely a girl.
Catherine
- Thread starter Vergillicious
- Start date
berto
I Saw the Devil
But that applies to every game, book, and movie. If you showed realist interactions of a normal couple then it'd be boring. Rather you have characters reacting to real life situations that men of Vincent's age come across, like pressure to commit, pregnancy, temptation, and balancing work and life.
Chancey289
Fake Geek Girl.
Well, the entertainment value is only your opinion.
Chancey289
Fake Geek Girl.
I know Erica is transexual. That's not hard to figure out.
I don't care. I'd still pick her and totally date her over any other girl in the game.
Chancey289
Fake Geek Girl.
See, maybe I ought to just report you because the reason why so many people are never nice to you is because you say stuff like this. Catherine is not as smart as it thinks it is. It's built around a faulty story and poor characters. And all you did was try to explain how you think the choices represent the many walks of life. But the game itself does not handle it properly. The moralty mechanics are broken and wrong.
And then it just all loops back to what an allegory is and how good of one Catherine provides. Unless the ideals Catherine presents are yours then it's your perfect allegory. Allegory is primarily based on ideals.
Thing is your explanation was not only very arbitrary, but very vague and broad. Enough to where you can pretty much make these kind of comparisons with anything now can you? You're just talking about the concept of a choice , but also using the choices Catherine provides as an example for life. You can't chalk up life like that.
Catherine still functions within its own borders of ideals and narrative to deliver its message, that confinement will never properly represent an allegory for life choices. Icing on that cake are characters who you can never even possibly relate to and all in all poor. Relationships are this game's bread and butter to relay the message, and I don't even see characters that are even compatible or attracted to each other. The game tells you, this is Vincent's life and that's it.
Poor allegory. Poor relay. I recommend the game because it's weird, but you won't find the most sophisticated commentary on gender politics or life here.
Chancey289
Fake Geek Girl.
You're also not spoiling anything because we all know Erica is transexual. It's not hard to figure out. And it doesn't change my mind about her because I'd still pick her over anyone else.
But, Erica is a girl. There's a fine line between gender identity and what a person is packing in between their legs. I know Erica is a fictional character, but saying something like that about a real transgendered person is pretty disrespectful and rather offensive.
Demi-fiend
Metempsychosis
I'd debate with you a bit on PM if I could, Chancey, but I'm afraid that that might end up in an argument that would more or less cross a line that should never be crossed.
Chancey289
Fake Geek Girl.
I am just personally irked by the ignorance some people have against those who are transgender. A good friend of mine is also a transwoman and I don't appreciate how I've seen some people treat her when they find out.
berto
I Saw the Devil
Is it? Do you find more entertainment in hyper realism rather dramatic presentations, then?
I'll tell you this much, even reality TV is fake, no form of entertainment is real. News, documentaries, and educational programming are the only real source of 'real' content and we don't really watch those for the entertainment value, we watch those for the need to improve, inform, and educate ourselves. We don't play games for the realism, we play them for the entertainment. If I wanted to see a realistic relationship in action I have more than a few friends and family who are married, dating, or living with a partner, but I certainly wouldn't do so for the sake of entertainment, that'd be a bit sick.
So would Toby, it seems.
Chancey289
Fake Geek Girl.
Way to overreact, miss the point, and get carried away. Get off your high horse and chill man.
I was just talking about a rom-com story in general. Saying it has to be an unrealistic relationship to be entertaining is acting like we haven't had good movies or games that do focus on more down to earth scenarios.
berto
I Saw the Devil
What exactly did I say that you think I showed an over reaction to?
Also, what exactly about a realistic relationship would I find entertaining? I know there are people who are addicted to drama and get bored easily if they aren't fighting with their partner and such but outside of that I don't find them 'entertaining.' In film and comics and all media most things told are set with extraordinary circumstances, that which isn't the every day, it's why we watch them. Even the most grounded dramas I've seen are events that are out of the ordinary and not what one would say happens on a daily basis.
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Innsmouth
Sleeping DMC Fan
Go ahead and cry like you always do, since apparently you always need pat on the head, unless you start another one of yours drama-tantrums. Maybe mods should just look over that you run around forum and calling everyone except your buddies, pricks, jerks, idiots etc. And if you act like moron and jerk yourself, don't expect anybody be nice to you. You got what you deserve.
Allegory means it represents hidden meaning. Not what lies on the surface. Vincent story is only surface storyline. Catherine's allegory is applied to broad matter of choice. To extent it even tells it in game. But hell, its pretty obvious you didn't played to the end and keep grasping at straws, so it's no matter what you've been told you still act as 3-years old, flopping on the floor and screaming "because i said so"
Chancey289
Fake Geek Girl.
*sigh* I have the game and have finished. Only once though because I really don't think it's worth more than one playthrough.
I know what an allegory is. One of my writing projects has some pretty heavy allegory in it. I'm just saying Catherine is not good allegory.
Like I said, allegory is based primarily on ideals and Catherine very much functions in its own world of ideals and concepts on morality. It's how it presents it's f#cking message. You seem to just think Catherine is right just because the developers in the credits said it was.
Catherine doesn't do this right. Allegory is a hidden meaning based primarily on ideals seen through interpretation. Interpreting Catherine is finding arbitrary logic and understandings on subjects it wants to tackle. Like people said, Catherine isn't very smart, it's just weird and quirky. The examples you are pulling from Catherine to explain yourself, you never realize are poor examples to begin with.
You won't find sophisticated commentary here. Just a game all over the place that's really remembered for its attacking a$$ monsters.
If you want an allegory for life, then I highly suggest you play Journey.
Chancey289
Fake Geek Girl.
Man, it's like talking to a brick wall as I'm just repeating myself looking back on my post. They really is no point. I said what I had to say twice now. But, I'm evidently "crying" and "throwing drama-tantrums".
WolfOD64
That Guy Who Hates Fox McCloud
Wow...if this thread had escalated any higher, it would knock the moon clean off its orbit and send it plummeting off into the pitch-black bowels of space...that is, if it already hasn't been thrown off orbit by the monolithic shockwave erupting from the cosmic collision of my facepalm.
What on earth is going on here? Just look at the path this conversation has taken...it's like watching a sweater be unraveled by a loose string: we went from Catherine to the "representation of moral allegory and realistic relationships."
If I actually cared in the slightest about the mediocrity posing as a story in this game, I'd actually be horrified by some the **** I'm reading. It's a good thing I only played this game for the puzzles.
What on earth is going on here? Just look at the path this conversation has taken...it's like watching a sweater be unraveled by a loose string: we went from Catherine to the "representation of moral allegory and realistic relationships."
If I actually cared in the slightest about the mediocrity posing as a story in this game, I'd actually be horrified by some the **** I'm reading. It's a good thing I only played this game for the puzzles.
Chancey289
Fake Geek Girl.
Puzzles and attacking a$$ monsters.
We need more games with attacking butts. That, and dinosaurs. Attacking butt dinosaurs that everyone thinks are evil, but in reality are all about ethnics in gaming journalism.
Chancey289
Fake Geek Girl.
I can't get over the freaking butt monsters. Gawddammit.
Innsmouth
Sleeping DMC Fan
Well what a surprise for pulling overrated indie that tries to hard :/ Ironically one of my best buds played catherine recently and he noticed that game was actually about choices and responsibilities even before reaching the end. Whole Vincent's situation was nothing but exaggerated example, and wasn't even really important in the end. You just had to accept that you completely missed point of the game and didn't even tried to understand that it something bigger that "loser who's having problems with women". And if you think people like those represented in Catherine don't exist..well...I think you should leave your house ofter.
Also using allegory and understanding what it means isn't same. Some people use different concepts without even giving doubt that they doing it wrong
It's like when i met person who though "Master and Margarita" is stupid because only thing this person realized about it is that it's about devil in Moscow :/
Innsmouth
Sleeping DMC Fan
Well you know some consider Catherine's mediocrity and some DmC's. Opinion do exist even on this forum
Demi-fiend
Metempsychosis
Leave it to this guy to bring up DmC in a completely unrelated thread. :bored:
Anyway, @WolfOD64 and @Chancey289, I actually played it for the story and and conversation options. I really didn't like the puzzles, but will admit to them being... expertly done? I actually have no idea how to convey how the puzzles were tough, fair, and still well-made at the same time.
I liked hanging out in the bar, talking to people, having time pass whenever you do, and putting in different dialogue inputs on my phone (which is probably one of the most innovative dialogue gameplay features ever, and I say that without exaggeration), and basically just... living life. I liked that mundane aspect intertwined with my nightly, bizarre escapades.
Personally, I think this is a "prototype" for the Social System in Persona 5 -- a 'test run,' if you will. I'm looking forward to see if they really will go on ahead and fuse this system with the already spectacular Social Link setup.
Like I said, had it been more like Fight Club (spoilers), where Catherine wasn't actually real, it would've just made last place on my Best Games list. As it stands, however, it's just a really good game that jumps the shark too many times.
In any case, I would like to see more "Bar Gameplay" implemented into more games. A social aspect like that really makes the game shine -- if it didn't, we wouldn't see games like Mass Effect put so much emphasis on that.
I liked, but didn't love the story -- I really liked the way it was done though. I really felt like I was living the life of someone else -- and I guess that's all that really matters in a game like Catherine in the end.
So, while I'm not going to replay it, I will say that's it's worth the evil playthrough, because being tied down is just too close to real life, and that's something that no one wants, really. We wouldn't play games otherwise, had that been the case.
"I want to break free... !"
Anyway, @WolfOD64 and @Chancey289, I actually played it for the story and and conversation options. I really didn't like the puzzles, but will admit to them being... expertly done? I actually have no idea how to convey how the puzzles were tough, fair, and still well-made at the same time.
I liked hanging out in the bar, talking to people, having time pass whenever you do, and putting in different dialogue inputs on my phone (which is probably one of the most innovative dialogue gameplay features ever, and I say that without exaggeration), and basically just... living life. I liked that mundane aspect intertwined with my nightly, bizarre escapades.
Personally, I think this is a "prototype" for the Social System in Persona 5 -- a 'test run,' if you will. I'm looking forward to see if they really will go on ahead and fuse this system with the already spectacular Social Link setup.
Like I said, had it been more like Fight Club (spoilers), where Catherine wasn't actually real, it would've just made last place on my Best Games list. As it stands, however, it's just a really good game that jumps the shark too many times.
In any case, I would like to see more "Bar Gameplay" implemented into more games. A social aspect like that really makes the game shine -- if it didn't, we wouldn't see games like Mass Effect put so much emphasis on that.
I liked, but didn't love the story -- I really liked the way it was done though. I really felt like I was living the life of someone else -- and I guess that's all that really matters in a game like Catherine in the end.
So, while I'm not going to replay it, I will say that's it's worth the evil playthrough, because being tied down is just too close to real life, and that's something that no one wants, really. We wouldn't play games otherwise, had that been the case.
"I want to break free... !"
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