Another Escapist Thread On DmC

[Stylish Nero]

Now that's not what I meant at all. There's a fine line between adding a few easier difficulty modes and completely changing the genre to appeal to a crowd that wants nothing to do with your game. DmC is still a hack n slash action adventure game. It didn't pull a Resident Evil.

Buts its not DMC, a hardcore, deep, intricate, massively challenging hack and slash.

Its DmC, a casual, streamlined hack and slash.......................God of War...........just better.

 

[Stylish Nero]

Yeah...DmC was easier to get into, but it was still a hack 'n' slash. Resident Evil 6 lost pretty much all of the "survival" part of its survival horror roots.

Its not a matter of genre by all means then Ninja Gaiden 3 (non Razor's Edge edition) is still a worthy Ninja Gaiden game......same goes for DMC2 since its still a hack and slash.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

I honestly still think arguing about difficulty is pretty shallow, just as much as complaining about the Style meter is pretty shallow.

Challenge is nice and all, but it shouldn't be lorded over people's heads as some sort of triumph, or rite of passage. Being good at a challenging game means next to nothing. It's an elitist mentality that just ends up excluding too much :/

Not to mention, DMC's higher difficulty, along with even Bayonetta's, is part of the reason why they don't sell quite as much, and why they're such niche franchises.

Yes yes, I know that DMC is Capcom's fifth best selling franchise of all time, but it's also fifth of their five most popular franchises, and its sales are half of that of the franchise it follows. There's a huge amount of disparity between the sales of DMC and what's higher up on that list. Hell, DMC actually sold less as a franchise than the Disney games Capcom hasn't made for over two decades...

 

[Stylish Nero]

I honestly still think arguing about difficulty is pretty shallow, just as much as complaining about the Style meter is pretty shallow.

Challenge is nice and all, but it shouldn't be lorded over people's heads as some sort of triumph, or rite of passage. Being good at a challenging game means next to nothing. It's an elitist mentality that just ends up excluding too much :/

Not to mention, DMC's higher difficulty, along with even Bayonetta's, is part of the reason why they don't sell quite as much, and why they're such niche franchises.

Yes yes, I know that DMC is Capcom's fifth best selling franchise of all time, but it's also fifth of their five most popular franchises, and its sales are half of that of the franchise it follows. There's a huge amount of disparity between the sales of DMC and what's higher up on that list. Hell, DMC actually sold less as a franchise than the Disney games Capcom hasn't made for over two decades...

Well considering that DMC only has 4 four games (well when it was announced as being the fifth selling game from Capcom) and has for DMC's overall sales being the fifth selling is a big achievement considering it only has 4 games (5 now but that this was before) when compared to Street Fighter (which been out for an extremely long time) and MegaMan (which has more games than it does units per million sold and as well as been out for much longer) and Monster Hunter is freaking Monster Hunter (basically the highest selling game series in Japan outside Mario and Pokemon) plus it had much more games in its game and its basically an MMO on consoles. All the games above DMC basically have dozens of games in their names. DMC only has 4 so that is impressive.

Disney is Disney they have a pretty large brand name.

Plus now you're resulting to sale figures. I recall you guys constantly stating that sales doesn't equate to a game's overall quality now your using said sales figures to prove a point to the old series.

Since when did sales become a subject of concern in this.

I mean Dark Souls (an extremely hard and challenging game) sold really well and the game was even marketed as being extremely hard but it still sold well. So your business model of hard games don't sell well is BS.

Geez so since DMC never sold blockbuster amounts it should start toning down what fans come to appreciate and like about the series to appeal to people who never cared about it to begin with. I guess all games should start being like Call of Duty so they can sell well.

Reason why DMC fans and myself included hates DmC is not the cosmetic change or the fact its a reboot its mainly the reason behind its existence. GREED. They saw that DMC wasn't selling as much as other games in the genre (literally it was just GoW) and decided to not just westernize or reboot (those I can understand) but tone down the difficulty and casualize it to appeal to GoW fans or casual players. Same logic goes behind why RE6 is the way it is.

There are plenty of casual and easy games in the market. If I wanted to play something less challenging I would play those that is why they're there but at the same time I play DMC for its own reasons so when DMC starts being like the other games it devalues either my point of still wanting to play DMC or takes away the incentive to try the other games.

Its not about the elitist mentality. I don't brag about how I beat a hard game. We like challenging and hard games because they're fun and the challenge adds a subtext of emotions and reactions when playing. We play games for different reasons (narrative, design, etc) we play challenging games because a challenge is fun and adds more replay incentive for us as we explore new ways and strategies to defeat enemies and overcome tough challenges and boss fights adding more depth to the game and in a way creating a long game experience. Difficulty adds more tension to the player creating a more immersive experience as we feel like the character in those situations and this tension creates a strong stimulate in the player as the challenge can push them to the wall allowing them to play more creatively and use observations and develop better strategic manuveurs and find weak points in an enemy offense and explore our options rather than mindlessly mash away til we win. I play easy games too and play hard/challenging games as well but play them for different reasons (usually easy games or not so challenging either a more open world like GTA or a RPG or has a strong sense of narrative). Its not action games but challenging mind games like chess and those brain teaser and reflex games you get on your iPhone and such adds such a great feeling and getting better with your reflexes and sense of judgement and keen senses for some of those games aren't easy.

Personally I love a good challenge and that is why play games like DMC, Bayonetta, and NG as well as hard games like the Original MegaMan when I grew up as a kid..........I suck at Fighting Games though.

I remember the very game that got me into video games was Shinobi or deep into action games. I had a relative who was in his 20s and I was like 10....9 somewhere around there and he was having a hard time with one boss and he couldn't beat it. I wanted to try and I tried the game after losing a couple times the challenge hit something and a drive to beat the boss was born before I knew it I fully learned the game's controls and faced the boss and destroyed it. I got so into it I couldn't let go of the controller.

Many years later I finally played DMC3 on Normal and that feeling was brought back. I don't know what it is but it feels ohhh soo good granted I do get annoyed when I die due to the boss using cheap tactics (and Arkham wasn't hard he was cheap). Its like watching the hero overcome a tough challenge in the game but only your the hero....or villain. It really feels that the very game itself is pushing me to my limit for me to do things I can never really do.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

DMC was technically at five games, because there was DMC3 and then DMC3 Special Edition.

Dark Souls wasn't hard, it was unforgiving. It didn't hold you hand at all. The thing is, Dark Souls really isn't hard at all once you know what you're up against.

And yeah, since publishers want lots and lots of money, its forces the devs to adhere to some iffy practices. However, it's not like we don't still get good games out of them - and you might not like it, but DmC is a pretty entertaining game. The problem is that DMC pushed a lot of people away with its difficulty, but at the same time fans wished it was more popular...it's difficult to find a happy medium between being popular and being accessible when the two are pretty much complete opposites. Then, unfortunately, DMC also wasn't appealing to the greater gaming masses because of its style either :/ I hated watching people pass up DMC for God of War at my store when I was pitching it to 'em

Also, there's the fact that the people who love DMC for its difficulty are more of a minority within the fanbase, compared to the amount that loves the games just for how cool they are and those whole really love the characters (the...uh...fandom)...

 

[Stylish Nero]

DMC was technically at five games, because there was DMC3 and then DMC3 Special Edition.

Dark Souls wasn't hard, it was unforgiving. It didn't hold you hand at all. The thing is, Dark Souls really isn't hard at all once you know what you're up against.

And yeah, since publishers want lots and lots of money, its forces the devs to adhere to some iffy practices. However, it's not like we don't still get good games out of them - and you might not like it, but DmC is a pretty entertaining game. The problem is that DMC pushed a lot of people away with its difficulty, but at the same time fans wished it was more popular...it's difficult to find a happy medium between being popular and being accessible when the two are pretty much complete opposites. Then, unfortunately, DMC also wasn't appealing to the greater gaming masses because of its style either :/ I hated watching people pass up DMC for God of War at my store when I was pitching it to 'em

Also, there's the fact that the people who love DMC for its difficulty are more of a minority within the fanbase, compared to the amount that loves the games just for how cool they are and those whole really love the characters (the...uh...fandom)...

Fans don't want their series to be more popular (well I didn't) it were the publishers or developers. DMC is a single player game what good does each individual player gets from having more people buy DMC games. So they can a have a bigger circle jerk of how cool the game is rather than actually play it.

DmC is entertaining. You know what is also entertaining a snail race. I'm not being sarcastic a snail race can be entertaining after seeing it like 3-4 times before getting bored and moving on.

I doubt DMC was pushing anyone away with its difficulty for DMC2 was extremely panned by critics and fans for being too easy compared to the game before it and DMC4 sold much much better ultimately due to the hype generated by DMC3 which last time I checked wasn't easy especially the original edition (nominated one of the hardest games ever made) and even the special edition wasn't much better (Normal mode still kicks your ass only difference you can actually beat it).

Lets not forget NInja Gaiden 3 got a 3.0 out of 10 for being too easy and simple for a Ninja Gaiden game so people still love difficult games.

I mean you don't see companies dumbed down or casualize fighting games because they're too deep and contrived for everyone to master and those are competitive games (well they do but it never comes out good).

I mean if being accessible means more sales shouldn't have DmC sold more than it did because now its much easier to get into so the fear of the difficulty driving people away isn't there. I mean sure it would've lost plenty of fans (which are like what 1 million...maybe more) but it should've gotten plenty of newcomers because its not like the old series.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

*shrug* Popularity means a greater community, look at the one right here, all the great discussion there is to be had. Popularity will also help a game's lifespan. DMC is lucky to have had so many sequels before the current industry standards. Bayonetta was a new IP, and it struggled even though it had the support of a cult following.

As idealistic as it is that all games exist for fun, it's a very sad and unfortunate fact that they aren't. They get made in order to make people money. Indies are doing a great job of making games for the heart and spread of their ideas, but it's just a sad, sad fact that games need to be popular in order to survive.

I know for a fact DMC was pushing people away - I worked at GameStop for eight years. I saw DMC in all its iterations lose out to games with hack 'n' slashes with easier difficulty, a lot of returns on my recommendations of how good DMC games are, only for people to truthfully bring them back because they were too hard to get into. And my store had a huge action, adventure, hack 'n' slash, and RPG crowd, biggest in our area. Some even said they liked the style, but the difficulty got to them.

And yeah, DmC should have probably sold more, but it was dogged by controversy and misinformation, and I did quite a lot of damage control in my own store when people asked me about it :/ Even after release, many people listened to internet b!tch-fits about the game being bad, and didn't bother, troublesome in its own right because people wouldn't listen to the professional reviews that actually gave it decent scores, and instead turned to the internet crowd, on top of all the "totally paid off reviews." Heaven forbid someone actually think the game was fine, good, or great.

Plus, MGR:R and other big games like Ni no Kuni came out as well, and big releases jumbled together tend to sorta mess with release numbers. That's why not a lot of other shooters ever come out around the release of Call of Duty - it's easier to sell it when people get bored of CoD, in that "I'm bored with CoD, anything new come out?" phase.

But, what the f#ck ever, I'm tired of arguing about difficulty. It's stupid and way too opinionated. DmC was made to be different and more accessible while still being about the flashy, over-the-top action that DMC is known for. It accomplished that, and I'm happy to have it. You don't like it, well...you can cram it with walnuts, honestly, sh!tting on it now isn't going to change what it is :/

So...uh...

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Jimmy-tickles?​

 

[Chancey289]

Quote

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Jimmy-tickles?​

I better have Jimmy-tickles with the next game or I'm dropping this series.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

A boy's gotta have dreams.

 

[Demi-fiend]

Yeah...DmC was easier to get into, but it was still a hack 'n' slash. Resident Evil 6 lost pretty much all of the "survival" part of its survival horror roots.

The critical difference between RE and DmC. It's just too bad that the "hardcore" fans refuse to see it.

People just are using anything and everything to bash with even if it doesn't make any sense.

Fanboy Irrationality = Logic

Let's just make up imaginary standards that the game should fulfill and also take things so literally that metaphors and context of the stuff being said are totally lost.

Yea, ok. Now I usually try not to break composure and straight up flame the stupid stuff I see here but I gotta say, some of the stuff being spoken by you hardcore anti-DmC people aren't doing you any favors because it's making you just look really really stupid. Seriously.

I don't think they realize this. Best to just let the idiocy run it's course.

You don't want to be another IncarnatedDemon do you? It's not too late. You can still save yourself and escape that dark abyss.

Hah! Too late for that. :lol:

 

[Demi-fiend]

I know you guys don't like DmC that much but the earlier games got nothing on the look of DmC. A bunch of fire and brimstone color pallet castles. That's it.

IT WAS TOTALLY DIFFERENT FROM CASTLEVANIA.

Limbo on the other hand was cool as sh!t.

NO IT WASN'T.

You guys are totally selling it short on purpose.

IT DESERVES TO BE SOLD SHORT JUST FOR EXISTING.

Yea whatever. I know how mega biased people in here can be but I don't care what you say. Limbo itself is something that in general is one of the coolest things Devil May Cry has ever brought to the table.

Yeah, no. My lack of logic totally trumps your taste in games. Loser.

 

[Agent47_89]

... :/ I hated watching people pass up DMC for God of War at my store when I was pitching it to 'em ...

Someone at Ready at Dawn studios must have heard that DmC was too easy and promptly made GOW:A hard by making Kratos weak, you just spam the same combo cos the other moves barely affect the enemies.

 

[Stylish Nero]

Hey God of War much more difficult and strategic than before although the combat was a bit weaker (IMO) to the previous installments and the overall game wasn't as fun or great.

Well I wouldn't say Ascensions combat was weaker just not the same.

But yeah Ascensions is more challenging that its previous games. Which is ironic its like DMC and GOW switched agendas almost.

 

[Agent47_89]

Hey God of War much more difficult and strategic than before although the combat was a bit weaker (IMO) to the previous installments and the overall game wasn't as fun or great.

Well I wouldn't say Ascensions combat was weaker just not the same.

But yeah Ascensions is more challenging that its previous games. Which is ironic its like DMC and GOW switched agendas almost.

Kratos was definitely weaker and/or the enemies were stronger, his roll has almost no i-frames, his parry has a vulnerable state and is two buttons, normal blade moves have been split into separate elements, ice element sucks, R2 magic moves are the LAST thing to unlock and are all basically the same, Rage meter takes ages to fill if not using fire element and only Hades and Ares Rage magic are of any use.

The main thing that annoyed me was the enemies do not flinch, even the fodder have super armor (maybe because I was playing on Hard but still), so you have to do that air grab and slam over and over again, since they can walk through almost every attack.