All about Dragon Ball/Z/GT/Super

[ROCKMAN X]

@ROCKMAN X
1. No, that just means you again miss understand it.

Yes i don't get it.. how is spiritual/metaphysical powers not bound by the laws of physics? how does goku using Ki make him exempt from the same laws that make superman go into flux? that makes no sense to me..

In Dbz it has been established that goku draws his Ki from a finite reserve of his body which is physical so his Ki Output is congruent to his physical strength.

There are physical limits to the strength of the body itself, so in order to overcome that barrier, it’s necessary to increase your “ki”. Normally, the more you increase your ki, the harder it is to control, so ki control is also important”.

Wait.. what? isn't Ki just an extension of the physical strength?

That is saying Goku does not use physical strength alone to move so fast, his use of chi would translate in DC Universe the same as the speed force which is spiritual in nature.

Speed Force is simple magic/deus ex machina like majin buu which defies all logic and physical laws.

Chi/Ki on the other hand is spiritual which depends on physical attributes so goku cannot use FTL speeds or be stronger than his body would allow him to.

Things like Frieza knowing a planet explosion won't kill Goku,

Goku started as really normal guy to an insanely strong but still normal guy he only got stronger and stronger but his mortality remained intact.

Metaphysical & Spiritual powers beats physical strength alone, Goku is physical, metaphysical, spiritual

It doesn't really make a difference lol

Ki output is entirely dependent on physics(A.K.A Goku's body)

And i don't really understand this "metaphysics"

damn.. its such a deceptive philosophy :dead:

 

[ef9dante_oSsshea]

oooooooh snap

 

[Sparda's rejected son]

Android 16 is based on Gero's dead son!
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/db-full-color-artificial-humans-cell-arc-03/

 

[ROCKMAN X]

The literal translation of "qi" is "breath", "air", or "gas".

Air&gas molecules are physical so the photons super saiyans emit is very much physical.

Chi energy isn't bound by gravity, atmosphere, physical objects.

​

Err.. no not really it is bound by the body of the person and it is also bound by the laws of physics as its just photons.

Spoiler

27:40

​

Rock lee's Hidden Lotus technique kinda explains in general how Chi flows throughout your body & how some can actually tap into Chi & focus it.

lol when naruto used to be a good anime...but seriously the naruto uses the "Chakra" philosophy NOT the "Chi" philosophy from DBZ.

"Chakra" is an Indian philosophy
"Chi" is a Chinese philosophy

However they're only limited to how they're written

To be honest DBZ characters are also limited to how they're written.. Ultimate gohan in the movie battle of Gods was severely underplayed whereas Veggie managed to land a few hits on bills..

Anyway DragonBall universe characters having the understanding & ability to use Chi energy at will allows them to brake through many physical limitations

now this really goes against what's been already established,Goku is limited to his mortal body and his ki reserve isn't infinite like superman's.

 

[Sparda's rejected son]

I feel DBZ Battle of Z has ZERO replay value. Why you ask? Well because unless you have Xbox Gold the game becomes "dull." I'm good at keeping my friends alive by using support characters and let them use the Brawl characters. When I have to keep track of my support character and hope the AI has enough sense to brawl like hell hounds, the game becomes bothersome. Plus once you've completed all the missions your left with nothing.
There is only so many times I can battle Goku's family before I start screaming.

Oh and.....THEY LEFT OUT SS GOGETA!!!

 

[Sparda's rejected son]

SS Vegeto is DLC. There are three modes: Single Player mode where you pick your team and play any of the Missions you've cleared. Next is Co-op mode which is the same as Single Player mode expect you play with Online folks. Finally there is Battle mode which is where Online folks battle each other on stages. Basically my team of friends VS your team of friends. That's it.

 

[Enigma]

They really need to make a decent Dragon Ball game again. The last game I played that was still decent was... Raging Blast 2, I think. But I liked Raging Blast 1's graphics style better. The newest games just don't interest me, as they often rely too much on multiplayer/online and DLC and sh!t. Oh, and the gameplay is just a lot of mashing or cheating. Man, I really need a game that adds characters like Super Saiyan 4 Vegeta and Goku, and SS Gogeta as well as his Super Saiyan 4 form. Maybe throw some Vegeta SSJ3 and Trunks SSJ3 in there for fun, and you're done.

 

[ROCKMAN X]

The last game I played that was still decent was... Raging Blast 2, I think. The newest games just don't interest me, as they often rely too much on multiplayer/online and DLC and sh!t. Oh, and the gameplay is just a lot of mashing or cheating. Man.

I agree Raging blast 2 was the last DBZ game which didn't feel like a cheap sellout.

Its just sad to see that devs don't even try make a good DBZ anymore they just slap the "DBZ licence" onto a mediocre bargain bin game and call it day because they know that fans will buy it regardless of how bad it is.

Its really sad that there is no DBZ action RPG game with character creation and original story,i personally loved free roaming aspect in Budokai 3 and customizing my characters its a darn shame that there's no DBZ rpg game.

 

[Sparda's rejected son]

Actually Battle of Z's Vs mode has a collect the Dragon Balls mode. I just never figured out how to choose the option.
Battle of Z is more like a RPG than a fighting game. My favorite Support character is Whis and during co-op mode I spend my time keeping my teammates alive. I literally stand in a corner and shoot life recovering energy shots at them all day while they have fun. But that's how the game is met to be played.

 

[ROCKMAN X]

You don't get it because you refuse to understand it & offer a poor explanation as to why.

I'm just applying hard logic into it instead of wishy washy "theories".

That yellow glowing flame around Goku, can you grab that with your hands ?

I cannot "Grab" the oxygen i breathe or the light i see either but both are very much physical.​

Why are the waves of energy going upwards & not falling back downwards if it's so bound by the laws of gravity.

A candle which is lit in 0G looks like this

The same could be said for Super saiyan's aura which is physical.

Superman is limited by physical means while Goku isn't.

Bullshit no he isn't!

Goku is bound by his physical body and his ki reserve isn't infinite you keep dodging this point!

That's Goku SSj3 after he takes a full powered punch from superman.

 

[ROCKMAN X]

Then disprove it.

Disprove what? things are self-evident here Goku's body is physical and his ki is limited to his body so there's nothing really stopping superman from beating goku down.

You're not even close to understanding spiritual transcendence.

Why do i have to? lol DBZ doesn't talk about spiritual transcendence or anything complex like that its a very simple show with easy to follow plot&characters.

 

[ROCKMAN X]

Bleach, Naruto, DragonBallZ, Yu Yu Hakusho, Demon City Shinjuku, 3X3 Eyes, etc etc etc etc. All is showing how Chi, spirit energy, spiritual pressure, etc is something more than just limited to physical limitations.

wait.. wait..WTF? Yu yu hakusho had some sort of supernatural stuff and naruto clearly doesn't use chi philosophy and bleach is again about SUPERNATURAL powers not chi.

You don't even realize that not every anime show uses chi philosophy.

You're thinking of a bottle filled with energy & assuming it's limited &bound by the same laws of the bottle it's held within.

You keep contorting this one point on and on just because you want keep goku from the laws of physics well guess what? his physical body is bound by the laws of physics whether you like it or not.

 

[ROCKMAN X]

@ROCKMAN X
It's very obvious now why you think Superman would win, & why you don't understand how The Flash is faster,& why you think Yu yu hakusho had some sort of supernatural stuff and naruto clearly doesn't use chi philosophy and bleach is again about SUPERNATURAL powers not chi.

Flash is faster than light because he has speedforce and yu yu haksho's story revolves around spirits and supernatural activity.

Both are completely unrelated to Ki from DBZ.

pay close attention then maybe you'll see the anime i listed deal with chi

Eh.. no they only deal with supernatual and spiritual stuff and they have NOTHING to do with chi philosophy which is exclusive to DBZ universe.

Wolverine&Spiderman both have superhuman strength but their source of power is totally different the same goes for all the other anime and DBZ characters you can't compare them.

You're grasping on straws anyway Superman already has shown cosmic level of feats and goku can never match that.

 

[ROCKMAN X]

@ROCKMAN X
You can't say one wins without understanding a little more beyond brute force.

why not? isn't that what DBZ is all about? dragonball was something "a little more beyond brute force" DBZ is all about brute force.

 

[ROCKMAN X]

Because you're trying to limit Goku to pure physical strength

I'm not,the show already does that for him.. i'm just pointing at the fact.

Goku has been beaten several times and that's why he needs senzu beans in the first place.

when Goku or almost every character in the DragonBall universe isn't merely limited to pure physical strength alone.

They draw their Ki from their physical bodies,so yeah they do depend mostly on physical strength when they're fighting one on one.

the results shown Goku is highly underestimated while Superman was overestimated.

what? You are pitting a guy who can survive supernovas against someone who is limited to planet bursting.. yeah i don't see what's the big problem here.

Goku can even shatter those characters that tank medium size planets..

See this is the wishy washy "theories" i was talking about.. this is never mentioned even once in the show so its ultimately a moot point not to mention its still not strong enough to beat superman as he pretty much uses Sun as a live battery which dwarfs anything goku could bring to the table.

So Goku would be struggling to beat superman just like he was with broly except this time there would be "toei punch" to save the day.

Goku reaches FTL speeds in an instant, again proven to you

1) Except it doesn't really make any sense why superman couldn't do that if Goku could that.

2) You are pitting 2 characters from different universes so you can only choose only type uniform physics one that allows FTL speed or one that doesn't as simple as that.

Goku can go beyond physical limitations

Eh no he can't.. he cannot live without oxygen,he cannot withstand supernovas or hold something as dense as a blackhole in his mere palms.

 

[ROCKMAN X]

@ROCKMAN X
This
This just shows how you don't grasp the concept even after it's been explained to you many times, so whatever.
You're literally stuck in denial, have fun.

What denial? FTL Speed IS NEVER mentioned once in DBZ so saying that Goku's speed is FTL is an exaggeration he cannot convert himself into pure energy like flash to transcend the barrier of light speed.

Goku can "Teleport" FTL with instant transmission but it technically isn't sum of his actual speed which is dwarfed by superman's seemingly infinite speed&strength.

 

[ROCKMAN X]

@ROCKMAN X
One example of FTL speeds: When KidGoku out runs a smurfin solar flare (LIGHT) that should smurfin tell you the DragonBall universe characters easily uses FTL speeds.

Err... no he didn't outrun the solar flare he just used roshi's glasses to deflect it and plus he could have closed his eyes when he attacked tien.

2. I never mentioned Goku's instant transmission as Goku's FTL speed.

Yeah but that's the only thing Goku has ever done which could be considered "FTL"

You're trying to limit character's abilities to purely physical powers.

I'm not the show itself does that on every occasion.

it's spiritual

No its deus ex machina plot device.

Nothing would stop Goku from taping into that on top of his own spiritual abilities

Err....why don't you realize that goku's body has more limits than superman's body? he can't even breathe in space.. how on bloody earth would he transcend space&time without obliterating his body?

On top of that Goku's SSj3 Form drains his energy faster than anything so superman would beat him out of his SSj3 very quickly.

 

[ROCKMAN X]

@ROCKMAN X
unless you've seen him with roshi's glasses before the attack or know 100% for sure KidGoku closed his eyes to stop it, then you can't say KidGoku couldn't out run a solar flare.

Still not a definitive feat.. its too vague to be considered a definitive feat.

Dude, only in your mind full of denial.

deny what? that goku has physical limits? no you're the only one who doesn't want to accept that.

The same reason The Flash can use it......See reply four.

Goku is not flash.. Goku doesn't belong to DC universe.

Eternal dragon also has "Spiritual powers" but that doesn't mean goku's spiritual Ki powers are comparable to the powers of the eternal dragon.

but as powerful as Goku is Superman would be worn out, plus as powerful as

See.. it all just boils down to you severely underestimating superman and severely overpowering Goku beyond his limits.

Superman's feats are cosmic,Goku's isn't he's limited to a planet,superman can harness the powers of a sun and completely obliterate goku in one blow and you know that.

Goku's AscendedSaiyan level is which can take attacks from medium planet shattering characters

Sweet JESUS! you're still on that? i don't care about your "Fan theories" i only care about the actual facts from the source material.

 

[ROCKMAN X]

@ROCKMAN X
You're just upset cause Goku has better hair.

No i just think that a guy who can tank supernovas and nuclear fusions can beat Goku.

 

[ROCKMAN X]

@ROCKMAN X
I mean you think Goku's chi is limited by his physical strength yet you can't explain how chi is used to transform.

I can't explain how superman can fly either,what's your point?

........Is that still physical ?

I don't see what's so hard to understand here,Goku's body is very much physical.