Hey guys. I believe that, while we are asking for a DmC 2, we need to at least ask about whether Ninja Theory plans on making combat more difficult for more adept players. I mean, outide of glitches like TwoSome Time, Air Stinger/Prop, and Invisi- Prop, there's not much for me to learn.
A Discussion on DmC's Combat Difficulty
- Thread starter Railazel
- Start date
DragonMaster2010
Don't Let the Fall of America be Your Fall
I think your getting difficulty of the game confused with harder to master attacks.
AngelMode
Well-known Member
They definitely should, but more importantly, they definitely can. I feel like they held back sooooo much in this game, gameplay wise or difficulty overall. They could have even added like air stinger inputs... like Nero's calibur in DMC4, they could have somewhat gotten rid of some of those air glitches... but I dunno, I also feel like NT struggled a lot with the glitches... which goes to show how great the teams over at Capcom are when making these games without as many glitches.
Yeah, I agree. The sad thing is that it's hard to cater to newby players and advanced players at the same time, so I can sympathize with them. However, there's a point to make when your gameplay has techniques that are really easy to pick up on or that said techniques aren't all that necessary.
Like Jump Cancelling for example. That was basically the gateway into becoming an advanced player. Once you had the timing for that, you could pretty much do all the other advanced techniques. However, JCing in DmC just feels out of place and unnecessary, like they put it in the game just to have it. Even techniques such as Prop Cancelling or Dash Cancelling are really more for cosmetics whether than exploiting a glitch in the game.
I think the three glitches I mentioned are the only ones that actually provide some challenge to learn and hold some unique benefits.
DragonMaster2010
Don't Let the Fall of America be Your Fall
Well this was their first attempt at trying to make a hack n' slash game in the same calibur as the past DMC's, and I guess they tried so hard at making it look and play like DMC, that they forgot the smaller perks to DMC.
Soupie
Well-known Member
There are some utilities to canceling. I've already seen combos that use canceling in ways I've never Imagined. The most important thing when playing this game is not to have the same mentality as previous DMCs. Kind of like how SFxT isn't like SSFIV. Sure, there isn't much depth in comparison, but you can still do a ton of stuff.
DragonMaster2010
Don't Let the Fall of America be Your Fall
Actually JC can still be efficient.
scionicspectre
Well-known Member
Yeah, just because DmC has different ways to exploit the game doesn't mean it's got less options. You just have to learn how to mess with it. I would be interested to see some sort of game mode that lets you create something like your own secret mission, though, with your own requirements to really play with insanely difficult challenges. Something like how inFamous 2 allows you to play user-created missions.
Well, it's not really about having the options because, trust me, I know there are tons of stuff that you can do. However, it's a matter of... challenge, I would say. How far as a player am I being pushed is the question I ask in these type of games and, well, DmC just doesn't give me that "edge" that I had in the past games.
For example, I never knew how great of a technique Release was until I learned about "warping" around by using it against attacking enemies from a distance. At first, I couldn't see myself being able to use it effectively but being able to do so was a goal for me and I tried hard. I don't feel that same spark looking at DmC since most of it I can learn in a few days as opposed to whole weeks or months of trying to learn. That's what I mean by "difficulty," is it a challenge for me to learn? Even more so, is it worth learning? Cancelling moves as a whole is worth learning but isn't much of a challenge for me.
DragonMaster2010
Don't Let the Fall of America be Your Fall
Well its not like this game was for the people who sit in front of their television for weeks without showering or living off of ships and soda just to learn one technique. It was a game that you could have fun and play with on a regular basis.
And for you to really have a tough time with that doesn't make sense to me. I learned that warping technique in an hour or two with no problems at all. I guess it all depends on the person playing and their experience though.
I see your point. I'm just asking for a little of that "secret stuff" for more advanced players to find. So far, the toughest things they've found were the glitches I mentioned. And don't get me wrong, those glitches are tough to use at it is. I'm just being greedy and asking for a little more.
You're talking to the dude who took a whole year just to learn jump cancelling, 3 months to learn efficient buffering, and who knows how many weeks to barely have the timing down for Just Guarding. When I tried Warping, I had only done so on accident. I didn't it get it down until five weeks after my first try.
Oddly enough, I got Invici- Jumping/Evading, Bunny Hopping, DT Flux Impacting, and Slash Cancelling very easily within hours of each other.
TWOxACROSS
Hot-blooded God of Guns
So...your thoughts really are about mastering more difficult skills...
And yes, I'd say Canceling is worth learning - you ever try to air juggle a Butcher? It's a bit difficult to keep them up there, do techniques that offer a decent amount of damage, and make sure you don't knock that fatass away where he immediately falls to the ground. Canceling makes all that possible, and just doing Roulette, Double Up, and Skirmish over and over again isn't gonna cut it, least of all for Style points.
It's funny that you say Canceling in DmC is useless when in reality, Canceling in the classic was useless as well. Players the world around have beaten the games on their hardest difficulties without using Cancels. Cancels as a whole in the franchise aren't necessary, but, like you said, open a gateway to higher play. Cancels in DmC do the same, it's just not as necessary for the average player, since DmC is more about set-ups than making Dante or Vergil tweak out of animations.
Exactly.
A good example of what I want is the TwoSome Time glitch. In order to do it, I would have to do a Kick then a Demon Dodge then a Demon Pull all on in very quick succession. It's not particularly hard to do by itself but it's easy to get my fingers confused among the mass of button combinations I go through, consequently making it a challenge for me to actually do it right.
The hardest glitch I'm trying to learn is Air Stinger/Prop which is hard for me to do by itself due to a lot of factors.
You see what I mean now? Stuff like juggling Butchers aren't what I'm looking for since I can learn how to do that within hours. I'm thinking on more technical levels, stuff that requires more precise timing and finger speed.
TWOxACROSS
Hot-blooded God of Guns
Well for one, a glitch isn't something that you should be citing for "difficult skills" because it's not something you're supposed to be able to do, and they aren't specifically coded to be easy or difficult to understand and execute. For another, most of those glitches were supposedly patched, so no one can do them anymore :/
And complaining about it taking however long or short for you to learn something is subjective. Did you ever think that maybe you got better at doing this stuff...?
And complaining about it taking however long or short for you to learn something is subjective. Did you ever think that maybe you got better at doing this stuff...?
Well... that sucks.
Of course, that's why I'm complaining. After playing DMC 3 and DMC 4 for so long to the point that I pretty much can do everything in those games with relative ease, I just wish to make the suggestion that NT should step it up a notch.
Convince me of what exactly?
TWOxACROSS
Hot-blooded God of Guns
You plateaued man. That happens to everyone at some point.