So, now that we have had a year to mull it over. The negatives?

[Dantesanimus]

Going to start with saying: THIS IS NOT A BASHING THREAD FOR PEOPLE TO WASTE TIME SPAMMING HATRED OVER THE GAME. I just wanted to give everyone an opportunity to put forth what they thought could have been done differently or what they felt was awkward in the Reboot.

Since we are approaching the year mark with the reboot I thought I'd see if the waters had settled enough and ask for a general opinion on what people did not like about DmC: Reboot as well as Vergil's Downfall and what they might like to see changes to after considering the game as it is and letting whatever disdain they had subside. There were quite a few things that I enjoyed about this game (Mentioned here: http://devilmaycry.org/threads/so-n...o-mull-it-over-what-were-the-positives.17623/ )
but there were a good handful that I felt hurt it I think and not just for fans of the originals. I just want to see whether there are any recurring issues we can discuss and wander about.

So, problems I had with.....

DmC: Reboot

Ehem, What the hell happened to the targeting system and the guns?
Puzzles? Where you at puzzles? T.T
Other half of the Story: I felt like the changes with Sparda and Eva made something that was vague and mysterious seem a little romantic and silly. I had always pictured Eva as just a normal woman who managed to be badass enough on her own to attract a Demon. Making her an Angel felt like they needed an excuse to give Dante more abilities. Though I guess there is no fixing that now.
Appearance change to Eva was REALLY random and Dante's change in retrospect was for controversy and post release skin sales which...touche to NT I guess.
They had a lack of item collection like Capcom staples, and I know that is not a NT thing, but I felt they missed an opportunity to add something different in its place.
Not enough Bosses. The bosses that were they were pretty great but I think there should have been more of them.
Not enough characters in general. I would like to see more characters for developments sake.
It was(felt)a bit short.
I didn't approve of the tremendous lack of actual interaction with Vergil. The fact that he did little fighting and was made into some sort of demon hacker was...odd, as well.
I also didn't like Vergil's personality that much. He lacked the honor and regallity I associate with him. I thought the idea of him murdering Mundus' child with a gun the way he did was way below his standards.

Vergil's Downfall:

Cheap move with them comic book scenes NT, cheap move. Also, *Personal opinion* rethink your artist. A lot of the Capcom fans in general have grown accustomed to a certain art style that comes with the companies background so it is hard for some of us to handle such a dramatic shift. Not that art change is bad I think they just went with the wrong style. It clashed a lot with the appearance of the game and not in a good way.
Also I thought the idea of Vergil going insane because he has mommy issues a little weak.

 

[This_IZ_Sparda!]

People's negativity is the only main thing is see in this matter. How they handled this new game. I respected the classics and I respected the reboot. a lot of uncalled reactions were brought up.

anyway, my negative thoughts on the game?
1) "FCUK YOU! FCUK YOOOOOOOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!!" that dialogue
2) No lock on
3) Fast gameplay is key to DMC, this one was a bit slower. (meh, it's still ok i guess)
4) Boss fights... Hopeful on better boss fights on a potential sequel. and better boss designs.. Lilith was lame, relying only on demonic fetus to fight for her.
5) Vergil's Downfall.... lacked gameplay compared to Dante's campaign. I didnt like the ranged system there as well.

 

[DoomSlayer87_Sss]

i was a skeptic before playing it as i had invested thousands of hours to the originals and have to say i was pleasantly surprised i don‘t care about the lock on reticule being gone i like the combat a lot i do wish there were more moves and jc‘s but it is still great i thought the vdf combat was brilliant only problems i had were the platforming bits got tedious and the color coded enemies bugged me as i had to use specific weapons but all in all a good game with minor faults

 

[mrrandomlulz]

As I've said countless times,
The biggest problems with this game were

1. The gameplay that felt like it was nerfed just to support the story (it was slower, WAY less challenging, and overall I felt myself WAITING for one of the enemies to succesfully attack me instead of taking their time swinging their weapon, Devil trigger is as easy as Nephillim because anyone with decent reaction timing barely gets hit)
2. The overall fact that the villains were more likable than the protagonist (Mundus was a BAMF, Dante just felt ... annoying.)
3. The shameless pandering to the current generation (Don't even deny that, the ending had FRIKKIN TWITTER)
4. the easy boss fights
5. Say what you want about the previous actors for Dante being no names, but Tim Phillips was TERRIBLE ( He sounded so nazily., word of advice, Tim, stick to regular acting)

 

[Winterfrost]

It's good.



on PC.

 

[Loopy]

The only problem I had was how easy it was to get the top ranking for missions. I would have liked more of a challenge; otherwise, I enjoyed the game.

 

[DragonMaster2010]

Vergil. I'll admit that I didn't like Vergil in DmC. When it came down to it, Vergil kind of sucked during the final battle with Mundus. Then when I actually fight him, all he does is block most of the time and not fight me straight up.

Too easy. It really was too easy. Just go in the air and hack away. Of course I realize that you can't be too high in the air because the camera can't see them from below. But still, DmC was too easy for some parts. I admit I was getting cut up and taking damage every now and then, but still.

 

[DragonMaster2010]

I can tell this thread will be filled with long essays of complaints (InncarnateDemon, etc etc) and a lot of flame wars.

And I'm waiting...
anticipating...
let the carnage come...
let me burn something...

 

[berto]

Going to start with saying: THIS IS NOT A BASHING THREAD FOR PEOPLE TO WASTE TIME SPAMMING HATRED OVER THE GAME.

Right off the bat this is a tragedy. This alone tells how far we've not gotten. The fact that this disclaimer goes with every thread regarding a comparison or anything regarding DmC is pretty much an answer to your question to a large degree. I haven't read the rest of the post but I'll get to it, I just couldn't help raise an eyebrow at this.

 

[AcidX_Y]

Difficulty, gameplay speed and Barbas + Mundus boss fights, everything else was fine.

3. The shameless pandering to the current generation (Don't even deny that, the ending had FRIKKIN TWITTER)

How is using the current generation a negative?

 

[Dantesanimus]

Right off the bat this is a tragedy. This alone tells how far we've not gotten. The fact that this disclaimer goes with every thread regarding a comparison or anything regarding DmC is pretty much an answer to your question to a large degree. I haven't read the rest of the post but I'll get to it, I just couldn't help raise an eyebrow at this.

I just wanted to scare trolls away. But I realized later that this is the internet. I probably just made it worse lol.

 

[Shin Muramasa]

Still haven't played the game... along with about thirty games including Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance, Sleeping Dogs, Metroid: Other M, and a lot of other games. Damn my desire for a gaming PC so I can leave all of those games on PC and not worry about consoles until they get cheaper. Damn it all. Ahem, anyway, I don't like how the game forces you to use Devil Trigger to end Vergil's fight. It's for dramatic affect and makes it cinematic, but I kind of wished that it was a "secret ending" or something. If you end the fight as normal Dante, you get a toned down and shorter ending, like, Vergil just says, "You were once my brother", before teleporting out and Dante and Kat just share some words. If you do it the "intended" way, then you get the ending where Dante almost slips into his demonic rage, Kat saves him, and Vergil leaves. Also, there could have been a "loser" ending where Vergil tries to finish off Dante, but Kat gets in the way and dies. Vergil would then leave, shocked and confused, while Dante lays there, enraged, injured, and falls completely into his demonic side. So, a so-so ending, the intended ending, and the both brothers become corrupted ending.

Speaking more on Devil Trigger. I kind of don't like how it sort of "delays" combat in Dante's case. When he uses it, he does a Super Saiyan motion before giving the player back control. Vergil doesn't have that, his just summons the doppelganger. After the first time Dante uses it, it should just have Dante transition into his Devil Trigger and launch the enemies up without the animation. Still, compared to the past games Devil Trigger, I'd say DmC, DMC, DMC2, and DMC4 have unique Devil Triggers. DmC for having the "effects": Dante's Quicksilver and Vergil's Doppelganger based Devil Triggers. DMC had additional moves only available through Devil Trigger and DMC3 sort of rehashed it without giving much more. Sure, it had different models, but only Rebellion and Nevan gave Dante additional abilities: Gliding and Alastor's abilities. I don't know if it had any more modifiers, like Agni & Rudra always having their elemental effects or something. DMC2 introduced Devil Hearts so you could modify how your Devil Trigger works. I'd like that to return someday. Maybe DmC has it where Dante and Vergil gain new Devil Trigger effects like a freeze effect, burn effect, or super-armor effect - less flinching -, and you get to choose what effect is active. DMC4 had Nero's Devil Trigger which basically doubles his attacks and unlocks new moves which was used before in DMC. The double the attacks, however, was introduced here. I really want that ability again; the fact that it summons another being to help you is really interesting. Maybe DmC Vergil could get this since Doppelganger copies or follows up Vergil's moves, while this would extend his range and attack rate. Also, it could symbolize Vergil's "dark side", well, even more dark side, like insane, pure evil side. Though Dante gaining this could have a "mother protects child" sort of vibe thing where the being is Eva. Hell, this could be the "Trish" of DmC, where this Trish is still "another Eva", but as Dante's own guardian angel instead of a demon created to lure Dante but ends up gaining her own humanity.

I wished Phineas had a larger role in the story. They build him up so much and he disappears like after two missions of his introduction. Though, this might be Devil May Cry's issue of having missions and therefore forcing developers to get as much as possible in terms of character development, plot, etc. with just 20 mission while not boring players to death with cutscenes. Hopefully, if there's another DmC game, Phineas could help Dante understand his Nephilim heritage more and maybe even help Kat with her magic. Hmm... Phineas could be the factor that makes Kat a playable character without being underwhelming compared to the other guys, Dante and Vergil. I can imagine Kat using summoned weapons or illusion weapons both for close combat and long range combat. They could refine and expand Lucifer's concept even more.

Vergil's lack of a second, traditional jump. Every playable character in the Devil May Cry series except DMC Vergil and DmC Vergil has a double jump: DMC Dante, Lucia, Trish, Nero, and DmC Dante. In DMC2 and DmC, Dante, Lucia, and Trish had a double jump right off the bat. Other games required Dante and Nero to buy Air Hike. Sure, it's "traditional" to DMC Vergil's playable appearance; he lacked a double jump in DMC3: SE. Still, another jump would not hurt or break Vergil's combat. Oh, he has three jumps now. Well, guess what? Every character has three jumps: the double jump and Enemy Step. It's not like DmC Dante and Nero can't stay in the air indefinitely with Ophion and Snatch or that everyone is capable of Jump Canceling. It would make platforming easier - I still remember those stupid, rotating cubes in DMC3.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

3. The shameless pandering to the current generation (Don't even deny that, the ending had FRIKKIN TWITTER)

How is using the current generation a negative?

Yeah...I gotta call bullsh!t on that one, too. The Order uses lots of different media to spread their messages, they'd obviously use a service like twitter to quickly announce developments in their cause. Communication via twitter for current events is like...the quintessential application for the service >.>

It's not even pandering, it's a logical thing that would happen in such a circumstance.

--------------------

My negatives?

DmC Devil May Cry
- Firearms could have had more skills
- Style Ranks below S could have decayed to push a sense of urgency a little more
- Would have loved the game to be at PC's 20% Turbo by default
- Devil Trigger should have been more of a power amp and less of an "Oh sh!t" button
- Taunts totally could have been kept in, using scripted ones to retain the tone of various scenes
- Would have liked a greater spectacle between Dante and Mundus
Incidentals
- There were a few things that I would have loved expansion on just for a more complete narrative
- Eryx could have look a bit more like gauntlets, but I still love the accompanying phantom fists
- Angel Dodge being a double-tap (although being able to go back and forth makes up for it)
- Better slicing and clashing sounds on some of the weapons
- I sorta wish Rebellion had a cross guard
- They chose a DMC3 Dante DLC skin instead of a DMC1 Dante DLC skin :C
- Vergil doesn't look all that injured in the end compared to the beginning of his DLC scenario

Vergil's Downfall
- Falling off suuuuuuuuuuuucks >.<
Incidentals
- Vergil looks waaaay more injured in the beginning than he did in the end of the main game
- No "clean", uninjured Vergil look as a costume, or Masked Vergil costume

 

[Caiden]

My negatives?

-Outside of it's charge shot E&I feel completely useless. Their shots bounce off of most bosses and some of the enemies.

-Just when I think I am beginning to understand the auto lock it goes and does a few random grabs and really confuses me.

-Lack of any real challenge. Rages are really the only enemy that have given me trouble. Besides that the only challenge I got from the game was every once in a while I wouldn't be paying attention and get hit. On higher difficulties a single hit can cost a sh$@ ton of health. But checkpoints are so common that dying isn't that big of a deal anyway.

-Color coded enemies..........

-Some of the design choices. I won't get into Dante much. I don't care so much that they changed his design, but even if old Dante didn't exist I would still hate new Dante's design. He just looks so smug most of the time and he comes off as trying to be cool. What is cool is different for everyone and it feels like Dante is really trying to force his idea of cool.

-Rebellions new design also bothers me. As a claymore it showed some pretty good contrast between Dante and Vergil. But now it's just and extremely unrealistic looking longsword (Maybe a bastard sword).

-Devil Trigger design is really lacking. In previous games they really showed off the characters demon sides. But in DmC Dante goes through minor changes and then the enviornment gets really obnoxious fog and bloom effects. And Vergil's was just a style from DMC3.

-Having Devil May Cry in the title twice without their being an actual Devil May Cry shop. (They could have at least made a reference.)

-After having played through the story recently there are some things that just don't make any sense to me. First what the hell is Rebellion suppose to be. Is it a demon or angel weapon? or neither? If it is an angel or demon weapon than why can't it damage any of the colored enemies. Second how did Sparda and Eva manage to stay hidden at all. They live in a mansion with a huge portrait of Sparda on the wall. Speaking of Sparda whatever happened to the once badass. The game makes him seem like a weakling and a coward. Running might have protected his family for a short time but sooner or later Mundus would come to power.

-The attempts of being dark and edgy feel like the game was made to be a 15 year old kids fantasy world. Things are way over dramatized. Dante opening is own chest to see if he has a heart? Just feel for a pulse dude. Gunning down pregnant women. That's just sick man.

Vergil's downfall
-The comic book style was so lazy. They barely drew out the frames so they are really choppy and some parts were not thought out. When Dante stabs Vergil in the back it looks like he is holding Yamato.

(Is it just me or is Dante holding Yamato right there and if so why?)

-Apparently you can escape death by running to a glowing Island cause why not.

-Vergil comes off as a psychopath with a superiority complex and mommy problems.

-Very little content. We got DMC special edition that came with both Dante and Vergil with 20 missions each, bosses, costumes, and bloody palace. With Vergil's downfall we get a DLC the came out only two months after release, has 2 costumes (No healthy Vergil), 6 missions, one boss, and no bloody palace.

Overall in my opinion it feels like DmC takes a few steps foward but at the same time take a bunch of steps backwards and stumbles a bit.

 

[mrrandomlulz]

I can tell this thread will be filled with long essays of complaints (InncarnateDemon, etc etc) and a lot of flame wars.

And I'm waiting...
anticipating...
let the carnage come...
let me burn something...

And anyone who read my previous post in the positive thread, knows I actually prefer bad cameras in an action game. Maybe I should explain with my prime example for a love of a bad camera

This game has a terrible camera, so terrible that RT is a button to fix the camera's orientation to where the player is facing.

Suprisingly, this WORKS IN THE GAMES FAVOR. It makes it so that whenever you reorient the camera, there could be an enemy coming right at you, while it can be annoying, the satisfaction of overcoming this obstacle is huge. The knee jerk reaction of countering at the last second is amazing.

 

[AcidX_Y]

And anyone who read my previous post in the positive thread, knows I actually prefer bad cameras in an action game. Maybe I should explain with my prime example for a love of a bad camera


This game has a terrible camera, so terrible that RT is a button to fix the camera's orientation to where the player is facing.

Suprisingly, this WORKS IN THE GAMES FAVOR. It makes it so that whenever you reorient the camera, there could be an enemy coming right at you, while it can be annoying, the satisfaction of overcoming this obstacle is huge. The knee jerk reaction of countering at the last second is amazing.

You can reset the camera in DmC, if you don't press anything it does it for you.

 

[Dantesanimus]

As I've said countless times,
The biggest problems with this game were

1. The gameplay that felt like it was nerfed just to support the story (it was slower, WAY less challenging, and overall I felt myself WAITING for one of the enemies to succesfully attack me instead of taking their time swinging their weapon, Devil trigger is as easy as Nephillim because anyone with decent reaction timing barely gets hit)

I feel like this could be chalked up to the overall ease of video games today. The older ones were much harder but if you compare DmC to many games its own age it feels the same to me in that regard. So, while I do agree it is easy, that's something we will probably have to live with for a while.

 

[Dantesanimus]

My negatives?


-After having played through the story recently there are some things that just don't make any sense to me. First what the hell is Rebellion suppose to be. Is it a demon or angel weapon? or neither? If it is an angel or demon weapon than why can't it damage any of the colored enemies. Second how did Sparda and Eva manage to stay hidden at all. They live in a mansion with a huge portrait of Sparda on the wall. Speaking of Sparda whatever happened to the once badass. The game makes him seem like a weakling and a coward. Running might have protected his family for a short time but sooner or later Mundus would come to power.

-The attempts of being dark and edgy feel like the game was made to be a 15 year old kids fantasy world. Things are way over dramatized. Dante opening is own chest to see if he has a heart? Just feel for a pulse dude. Gunning down pregnant women. That's just sick man.

Vergil's downfall
-The comic book style was so lazy. They barely drew out the frames so they are really choppy and some parts were not thought out. When Dante stabs Vergil in the back it looks like he is holding Yamato.

(Is it just me or is Dante holding Yamato right there and if so why?)

-Apparently you can escape death by running to a glowing Island cause why not.

-Vergil comes off as a psychopath with a superiority complex and mommy problems.

-Very little content. We got DMC special edition that came with both Dante and Vergil with 20 missions each, bosses, costumes, and bloody palace. With Vergil's downfall we get a DLC the came out only two months after release, has 2 costumes (No healthy Vergil), 6 missions, one boss, and no bloody palace.

Overall in my opinion it feels like DmC takes a few steps foward but at the same time take a bunch of steps backwards and stumbles a bit.

Oh god I completely forgot about the art slides in this game! hahahaha those things cracked me up every time they came on. For one, they look like really cheesy digital fan art and two yeah, way too over dramatized...the one with Dante holding his dead mother as a child made me lose it a bit... >.> For Vergil's Downfall, Im not kidding, I had to avoid direct eye contact with that artwork. I forced one of my artist major friends to watch it with me and she tried to hide behind the couch in fear.

Going along with your statement about him looking like he was holding Yamato (I guess someone could argue that it was on purpose). I also noticed that all the effort that went into creating Vergil's new design went out the window because other than the color coordination you can't tell them apart in the mess of both the art and the awkward animation.

 

[berto]

There are quite a few aspects of this game I found lacking, and I've been playing it through out the year so I've had time to maul them over, but none of them are new.

•The lock on needs no more talk so I'll skip it.
•There are more glitches here than your standard game. In one occasion I was playing Lilith's club and when the walls grew form the ground I fell thorough it for no reason. I've rarely have a playtroughs without some glitching.
•The inconsistent framerate. Not 30fps thing. The game will drop frames when it gets busy with the backgrounds and it sucks the most when I am in the middle of platforming; I'll be in the middle of the air about to double jump or glide when the frame rate drops and my input is delayed by too much and I'll fall to the abyss. This happens way too often to not be an issue.
•The difficulty is insulting. I platinumed this in 4 days. I tried it on the 360 and it was just as easy. Where it's not easy to get through it's rarely challenging and more irritating.
•The lack of fourth thought when designing everything. First boss fight, for example, it's not bad the first time but once you get more weapons and moves it's just not that challenging, even on harder difficulties. The game is littered with other choises that are fine if you are playing this only once but quickly loose appeal on multiple playtroughs.
•The design for some of the creatures and bosses are less than memorable. The standard grunts all look the same, some are just color coded and others have slight variations.
•No model galleries. This became a standard in DMC4 and Bayonetta. If people like your designs they'll want to see them in a gallery or library.
•What they didn't use. This has been a thing since 4. You look at the art work and there were so many better ideas that didn't make it to the game and when looking at them the thought is 'why wasn't this in the game?' and it disappoints quite a bit.
•Story.
•DT.
•Less moves than previously available.

 

[VineBigBoss]

Gameplay-wise:

I think the game could have some tweaks here and there, but the general systems worked just great for what NT supposedly had in mind.

- I really think that the demon weapons could be more useful in air combat, i mean, you don't have much to do with them. You can JC Eryx's normals attacks and Arbiter launcher ad infinitum or end your combo without jcing the launcher. I do understand that the idea of the demon weapons is for them to be hard-hitting weapons, but i think they could find a middle-ground between angel and demon weapons and tweak them a little (at least for one of the demon weapons, Arbiter could be just as it is), and make the demon movesets a little more workable in aerial combat. Still, i think the demon/angel weapons holds sufficient distinguish aspects between them to hold as different and useful in different scenarios, i've find myself doing cool battles against blood rages just "zonning" them with Arbiter and doing some combo strings with Eryx, which is a cool approach to this fight.

- They could work on the animations and hitboxes on this game. I don't know if it's personal, but it feels really weird to dodge in this game, the animation seems late in relation to the hitboxes, seem that they tried to compesate the long cues with this weird "fast-fowarding" of the hitboxes in relation to the animations. I did play the game in the PC and PS3 versions.

Design-wise:

- Enemies on this game, aside from color-coding which is a mechanic that i don't really enjoy, do their job even with lack of options to hit you when you're far away from the ground. I think they could tone-down color-coding and allow rebellion to hit colored enemies to put at least more mix in the fight against colored enemies, i think too that they could allow more weak enemies to do some jumping attacks (like the Leg Scarecrows in DMC4), so they could still be a pain to deal with even being basic enemies.

- Even if people get mad, i must say: i don't like the bosses on this game at all, even Vergil. The fights are just... how i could put this, not exactly easy, other DMC had easy and still engaging bosses like Phantom 1 and 2, Nightmare 1, Leviathan, Nevan and Gigapede that would give you some cool gimmicks to work with it and still would put some challenge and hold some diversity in the way you need to evade their attacks and approach them. Even Vergil that has some cool attacks, his AI was too ****ing passive, i mean, he looks like a Honda player but a bad Honda player, he turtle until you do something and 2 out of 4 attacks coming from him are punishable, so it became a fight of "bait & punish" which is not exactly a cool thing to do in a singleplayer game were you're not outplaying another humand mind in the proccess. I really think they should give more attention to the bosses next time and take lessons and notations from what other good games in the genre did.

If i would add anything, most of it would be really too much personal, for example: i don't like Vergil, Dante and Kat at all, my favorite characters in this game are definetly Phineas and Mundus. Aside from that, i feel the story was too juvenile while trying to sound more adult.