Why Change is bad

[CoolDemon]

Now the word "Change" can mean many things.

1) Natural changes that happen to a character. Such as Snake in Metal Gear Rising. Snake is old.

2) Change in direction for a game. Such as a reboot, character change etc.

I wanted to say that because i have read many times people in DmC controversy has said "Fans are afraid of change" without stating what kind of change.
When Nero became main character of DMC 4 you never saw me go "OMG get that dumb ass out of the DMC stage!". No i did not do that so that should say that i, CoolDemon, am not afraid of change.

Anyhow on to the main point (Change #2):
The Legacy of Kain is a game serie that i like alot. And i like Blood Omen 2 the most. The people who made this game did a good job. And so if Blood Omen 3 is handed to developers and people who have not worked with Blood Omen 2 then i will be "Darn".

I hope that Blood Omen 3 (rumours with high probability that it's coming) will be designed by many of the people who made Blood Omen 2.

I liked Devil May Cry 1 alot. And every since Hideki (who by the way seems to have MAJOR role) left Capcom DMC story and characters went down drain.
Sure Dante kept being "Dante" to certain degree, but the story that i liked alot was killed. In DMC 3 and 4 Dante became more of a cheesy cool line character.
So when Hideki was no longer in the team i feel that the story and the presence of Dante in DMC went away.

So i will ask this question:
Have you ever wondered how DMC 2 story (and evetually 3 and 4) would be like with Hideki? would it be better you think?

By the way vote in the poll.

P.S I wish we had cutscenes of Dante and Vergil when they were kids. :/

 

[JohnKasarinlan]

To be honest devil may cry 3 is the best in the whole series in my opinion.But DMC 1 starts it all and got 92/100 from metacritic which dmc 3 can't.So yeah i probably would like for the real creator of DMC to do the games.

 

[Tony_Redgrave]

Sure, though DMC1 seems like a complete story to me. And I think that was the original intention. But as long as we discuss prequels like the story of Sparda etc I'm game.

 

[CoolDemon]

Sure, though DMC1 seems like a complete story to me. And I think that was the original intention. But as long as we discuss prequels like the story of Sparda etc I'm game.

Because the sequels have been already defined?

 

[Tony_Redgrave]

Because the sequels have been already defined?

No because I feel there is no need for sequels. Dante sealed the most powerful demon ever, and he did it easily. Who else can match him? Unless they think something outrageous I can't see a good sequel. Hence why DMC2 is kinda mediocre, dmc3 is a prequel and DMC4 introduced a new main character.

It is easier to make prequels. Leaving the Sparda-prequel out of the picture, a Dante prequel is also possible since Dante would be weaker and would have more suitable challenges against him.

 

[CoolDemon]

No because I feel there is no need for sequels. Dante sealed the most powerful demon ever, and he did it easily. Who else can match him? Unless they think something outrageous I can't see a good sequel. Hence why DMC2 is kinda mediocre, dmc3 is a prequel and DMC4 introduced a new main character.

It is easier to make prequels. Leaving the Sparda-prequel out of the picture, a Dante prequel is also possible since Dante would be weaker and would have more suitable challenges against him.

Yeah, i want a prequel more to be honest. Vergil and Dante's past.
A thing i really like alot by Dante is how he feels about his brother. Brotherly bond for the win!

 

[V's patron]

I dont think people hate change, i just think they fear it so cause there is a big chance for it to fail.

On topic, I'm open to it but since I haven't played the original, I dont prefer it plus I do like 3.

I so think there were avenues you could explore after 1.

 

[mrrandomlulz]

Actually a sequel would be awesome , just have mundus return in a more
powerful state
plus we could have both Nero and dante and vergil and (sighs in fantasy) lady ( just
joking guys) and trish and kyrie and most importantly name the sequel DMC 6 just to annoy fans
edit: and itsuno and kamiya could work together

 

[ZeroLove]

I like change, even the drastic ones. Sometimes that's what it takes to get what you want. I've never been a creature of habit and I would get bored if something stayed the same for too long. Devil May Cry 4 bored me, even with the changes made, so I hope the new Devil May Cry will excite me as much as DMC3 did.

To take another game series, Soul Calibur 4 bored me, but Soul Calibur 5 looks really promising with all the new characters, the all new story mode and the grandly updated Create-a-Character mode.

A game series that continues the same story for too long won't catch my attention without grave changes occuring throughout the series. Then I would rather the developers just ended the series and focused on something new.

Another example is the Metal Gear Solid games. 4 games of the series was good and now the "5th" game is really different with Raiden being the main character (again) and being alot more action-packed and less of a stealth/shooter game. I love that!

Last example is Final Fantasy. Each game in the series is different from the other with new storyplots, new characters and new (sometimes just updated) battle systems, except for a few games that have a few sequals, such as Final Fantasy X-2 and now the upcoming Final Fantasy XIII-2. It's one of the reasons I love Final Fantasy.

 

[ImPoSsSibLe to CaTcH]

At this point i'll accept whatever they throw at me is it a prequel or a sequel as long as Dante is in the game this time and is a main character or at least playable. TBH i think they should give DMC to Kamaiya let him decide what's best for his son.... if there is someone who can really bring Devil May Cry to the next level that's him... If capcom wants DMC to sell 5ml. Kamiya is the only one who can help them accomplish that. I personally would like to see DMC5 to continue with Dante in hell.
Also Btw i love the LOK series too and hope there is a new game in development.

 

[ROCKMAN X]

First off all i want to know WHO are those 3 people who voted for NO !! i want to check their IQ

Platinum games+Capcom == DMC5 !!

 

[CoolDemon]

Prequels:
DMC: Sparda's history
DMC: Vergil's absence

 

[ROCKMAN X]

Prequels:
DMC: Sparda's history
DMC: Vergil's absence

Vergil's absence he lost to mundus in the end of DMC 3 he had no chance since he was weakened and only had yamato his fate was sealed so there is no way or story to make a new game on him

Sparda YES I WANT IT so bad !!

 

[CoolDemon]

I like change, even the drastic ones. Sometimes that's what it takes to get what you want. I've never been a creature of habit and I would get bored if something stayed the same for too long. Devil May Cry 4 bored me, even with the changes made, so I hope the new Devil May Cry will excite me as much as DMC3 did.
For who? And isn't it pretty obvious that in order to do what you want with a established serie is to do drastic changes? DMC 4 was pretty different, but DMC 3 was pretty much same as DMC 1. So i don't get your thinking. You got bored of DMC 4 that was alot of changes (despite you liking changes), but you liked DMC 3 alot (which was pretty much same as DMC 1 except story of course (but story naturally changes)).
I personally think when you make a new game and gamers like it, you should then reflect on the game. What made gamers like it - in other words what stood out? That way you can keep those aspects the same. For example Blood Omen 2 dialogues (and voice of Kain) is very important to keep the same.


To take another game series, Soul Calibur 4 bored me, but Soul Calibur 5 looks really promising with all the new characters, the all new story mode and the grandly updated Create-a-Character mode.
That's natural change for Fight games. "How can we keep Soul Calibur the same but make it fresh? Simple: new characters and new modes/options" (Fighting games are like that).

A game series that continues the same story for too long won't catch my attention without grave changes occuring throughout the series. Then I would rather the developers just ended the series and focused on something new. DmC seems to be pretty much same story. A main character killing demons to free the humans. Sounds like Sparda freeing demons or Dante slaying demons to save demons.

Another example is the Metal Gear Solid games. 4 games of the series was good and now the "5th" game is really different with Raiden being the main character (again) and being alot more action-packed and less of a stealth/shooter game. I love that!
You say the previous 4 MGS games were good but you love the new MGS that you haven't played? It sounds like "good" is bad if you ask me.

Last example is Final Fantasy. Each game in the series is different from the other with new storyplots, new characters and new (sometimes just updated) battle systems, except for a few games that have a few sequals, such as Final Fantasy X-2 and now the upcoming Final Fantasy XIII-2. It's one of the reasons I love Final Fantasy.

The changes you listed aren't all drastic changes. I don't have knowledge about Final Fantasy or MGS, but in new MGS Snake is included (so story is not rebooted?). And in Soul Calibur it's a fight game, those changes are natural for it's genre.

 

[ROCKMAN X]

Basically the Reboot is a Mess IMHO

IT Doesn't have anything which made other games so exceptional
IT's Main lead seems weak and lackluster
IT Sucks that's DT is just a fantrigger
This reboot is just a funeral for DMC series all because Capcom is lazy !!

 

[ZeroLove]

The changes you listed aren't all drastic changes. I don't have knowledge about Final Fantasy or MGS, but in new MGS Snake is included (so story is not rebooted?). And in Soul Calibur it's a fight game, those changes are natural for it's genre.

1: I was talking about my personal experiences, that sometimes I need to change something around me or about me for me to obtain what I want. For example, I have moved around alot and made certain changes about myself for personal gain, so I get most out of life the way I want it to be. However, if we look at it from a Devil May Cry point of view, Capcom needed to make some drastic changes to Devil May Cry and Dante for it to appeal to western gamers, like we've discussed in another thread. Or well, that's what Capcom thought was needed.

2: I don't think there were alot of changes in Devil May Cry 4. Yes, you were Nero, but he was basically able to do the same stuff as Dante could with the addition of the grab move. To me, Nero is a watered down Dante. There was nothing all that exciting about it, there were no real changes to the series. It just felt same old, same old and that's what made me bored of it.

3: What stands out about Devil May Cry is the stylish gameplay, that's the core of Devil May Cry, that's what Devil May Cry is known for, that's what made it so popular. It wasn't because of Dante or the storyplot which are both rather stereotypical and have been seen before in other media. So if they keep that throughout any incarnation they would make of Devil May Cry, then it will keep on being Devil May Cry. The rest is just aesthetic changes.

4: Yeah, fighting games generally do that, but it works for those games. It is why games like Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat have been so popular for so long. However, it is also why I grow easily bored of them, as many of the new characters just borrow the gameplay of former characters. Like mentioned above, the gameplay is the same with a few touch-ups here and there, but the real change are mere aesthetic ones. Sometimes I am lucky to see a whole new face with a whole new playstyle - like Zwei, for example.

5: Like my points above, the new Devil May Cry has kept its core from the original Devil May Cry: the stylish gameplay, but with a few touch-ups, and the rest are just aesthetic changes, like Dante's looks and the storyplot being different, but are essentially the same. The new and the original games aren't all that different if you look at it from a wider perspective, yet people see the changes as being so drastic that it is worth raging over. But hardcore fans hate change. They want the same old, same old. So change is bad for them! My above post was, however, just me expressing how I feel about changes in general. I disagree with those who don't want change, because it is in my nature to want it or else I will get bored. That's just MY opinion.

6: The newest Metal Gear Solid isn't a reboot, but is explaining the events before Metal Gear Solid 4 from Raiden's perspective. However, the real change lies in the gameplay style which is VERY different from the previous games. It is alot more action-based than any other Metal Gear Solid game and THAT is what excites me. Also, Raiden is my favourite character of the series and I loved his look and style in the 4th game, so I am pretty excited to play as him like that. That's why I am loving it. I am not talking about changes in the story, if that's what you thought, though from what I have read, there are some changes from the original story. Not like a reboot, but like retcons.

7: I never said all the changes I mentioned were drastic. I started out with saying that sometimes drastic changes are needed. However, sometimes it is enough with just some minor tweaks and touch-ups here and there. Depends on the person, really. While some prefer just those minor changes to perfect something already existing, I can get bored of it in the long run and then want something drastic to happen. That's just me, that's how I am. You really don't have to agree with it, that wasn't the point of my post. Like I said above, it was just me telling how I feel about changes.

Okay, phew, I think I went through all the points there. Your response to my above post had me confused at first, hence why I though it would be better if I responded like this, because all those different coloured responses mixed into my original post, and then something I wrote highlighted and some text turned thicker, it all kinda confused me, but I hope you can figure out what point answers to what.

 

[CoolDemon]

1: I was talking about my personal experiences, that sometimes I need to change something around me or about me for me to obtain what I want. For example, I have moved around alot and made certain changes about myself for personal gain, so I get most out of life the way I want it to be. However, if we look at it from a Devil May Cry point of view, Capcom needed to make some drastic changes to Devil May Cry and Dante for it to appeal to western gamers, like we've discussed in another thread. Or well, that's what Capcom thought was needed.
Ok, cool. However, the need to appeal to western gamers is a assumption on Inafune's side isn't it? Because he's one who said Japanese game market is pretty much dead.

2: I don't think there were alot of changes in Devil May Cry 4. Yes, you were Nero, but he was basically able to do the same stuff as Dante could with the addition of the grab move. To me, Nero is a watered down Dante. There was nothing all that exciting about it, there were no real changes to the series. It just felt same old, same old and that's what made me bored of it.
Yep, a watered down Dante. The part i liked is that he not Dante. Because only Dante is Dante, and that is how i will always see it.

3: What stands out about Devil May Cry is the stylish gameplay, that's the core of Devil May Cry, that's what Devil May Cry is known for, that's what made it so popular. It wasn't because of Dante or the storyplot which are both rather stereotypical and have been seen before in other media. So if they keep that throughout any incarnation they would make of Devil May Cry, then it will keep on being Devil May Cry. The rest is just aesthetic changes. Some people would argue that DMC is also popular because of Dante. Think about it: Why have so many fans been ****ed off by DmC character? I say DmC character because he's not Dante but a character based off Dante (That's big difference). Dante is so popular that people seems to have sent REAL death threats to Tameem. I am one of those people who like DMC for Dante as well. Of course his character is pretty flawed (2-4) but Hideki Kamiya who created him did say that the "Dantes" after DMC 1 was different from the Dante he created.


4: Yeah, fighting games generally do that, but it works for those games. It is why games like Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat have been so popular for so long. However, it is also why I grow easily bored of them, as many of the new characters just borrow the gameplay of former characters. Like mentioned above, the gameplay is the same with a few touch-ups here and there, but the real change are mere aesthetic ones. Sometimes I am lucky to see a whole new face with a whole new playstyle - like Zwei, for example.
As you know there is tons fighting games updating with new characters, modes, items , aestic changes etc. That's something that i would call "natural change" for a fight game because that happens ALOT. I played Virtua Fighter 4 by the way (Kage (jijuts) had different metal armor that you could obtain by defeating opponent CPUs in a mode)).

5: Like my points above, the new Devil May Cry has kept its core from the original Devil May Cry: the stylish gameplay, but with a few touch-ups, and the rest are just aesthetic changes, like Dante's looks and the storyplot being different, but are essentially the same. The new and the original games aren't all that different if you look at it from a wider perspective, yet people see the changes as being so drastic that it is worth raging over. But hardcore fans hate change. They want the same old, same old. So change is bad for them! My above post was, however, just me expressing how I feel about changes in general. I disagree with those who don't want change, because it is in my nature to want it or else I will get bored. That's just MY opinion.
You may not understand it but Dante is important to me. He's special. And everytime people speak of his character everyone bring in rebooted movies and comics. "There is X batmans, x spidermans etc". A character should die when his time arrives. That's greatest way a fictional character would be respected, by dieing when he/she's time has arrived. Being "remade" is just for people who want to milk the character or want to change the character for their own taste.

6: The newest Metal Gear Solid isn't a reboot, but is explaining the events before Metal Gear Solid 4 from Raiden's perspective. However, the real change lies in the gameplay style which is VERY different from the previous games. It is alot more action-based than any other Metal Gear Solid game and THAT is what excites me. Also, Raiden is my favourite character of the series and I loved his look and style in the 4th game, so I am pretty excited to play as him like that. That's why I am loving it. I am not talking about changes in the story, if that's what you thought, though from what I have read, there are some changes from the original story. Not like a reboot, but like retcons.
I figured it's not a reboot since Snake is old.

7: I never said all the changes I mentioned were drastic. I started out with saying that sometimes drastic changes are needed. However, sometimes it is enough with just some minor tweaks and touch-ups here and there. Depends on the person, really. While some prefer just those minor changes to perfect something already existing, I can get bored of it in the long run and then want something drastic to happen. That's just me, that's how I am. You really don't have to agree with it, that wasn't the point of my post. Like I said above, it was just me telling how I feel about changes.
That's cool.

Okay, phew, I think I went through all the points there. Your response to my above post had me confused at first, hence why I though it would be better if I responded like this, because all those different coloured responses mixed into my original post, and then something I wrote highlighted and some text turned thicker, it all kinda confused me, but I hope you can figure out what point answers to what.
No problem. Hope my replies aren't to confusing this time.

Do me a favor and stop wording yourself in a way that suggest DmC and DMC Dante are the same character. They are two different characters. And i hope that you speak of them both in that way.

 

[ZeroLove]

Do me a favor and stop wording yourself in a way that suggest DmC and DMC Dante are the same character. They are two different characters. And i hope that you speak of them both in that way.

Much easier to read your replies this time. Thank you. ^^
I don't think I am wording myself as if the two Dantes are the same, because I don't see them as the same character. The new Dante is another version, Ninja Theory's version, of the original Dante. That's how I see it anyways. I'm sorry if that doesn't reflect on my explanations.

 

[ROCKMAN X]

Much easier to read your replies this time. Thank you. ^^
I don't think I am wording myself as if the two Dantes are the same, because I don't see them as the same character. The new Dante is another version, Ninja Theory's version, of the original Dante. That's how I see it anyways. I'm sorry if that doesn't reflect on my explanations.

its just like that we can't just take his drastic changes its completely revamped character that he is no more acceptable or recognizable by the fans

 

[CoolDemon]

Much easier to read your replies this time. Thank you. ^^
I don't think I am wording myself as if the two Dantes are the same, because I don't see them as the same character. The new Dante is another version, Ninja Theory's version, of the original Dante. That's how I see it anyways. I'm sorry if that doesn't reflect on my explanations.

I would say your contradicting yourself in this quote

5: Like my points above, the new Devil May Cry has kept its core from the original Devil May Cry: the stylish gameplay, but with a few touch-ups, and the rest are just aesthetic changes, like Dante's looks and the storyplot being different, but are essentially the same.

DmC Dante is a character that's shaped mostly on DMC Dante's character. But he's not DMC Dante. So how are you not saying that he's not the same character as DMC Dante when your saying Dante's looks have been changed.

DmC Dante has not been in any other DMC game. His first time as character is in DmC. So how is his looks been changed?