Why the hate?

[TWOxACROSS]

?? Do I really need to explain? If Dante wasn't an important icon of Capcom, nearly no one among the old fans would have complained to the point they did when they made a "total conversion" of him.

Meant nothing by it, just wanted an elaboration. Usually people can get past Dante himself being a different person given the alternate universe and all that, but what really mattered was the gameplay. Sorta like how people got over the initial reaction of playing as Nero instead of Dante because his gameplay and the overall gameplay of DMC4 was intact from what we got in DMC3. DmC was a departure in both character and gameplay.

Well oop:, there you have it folks - Capcom did it, not the game.
+ I had no idea they were working on getting rid of the lock-on. What blasphemy is this? WTF Capcom! And there I was thinking it was the bees knees :facepalm:

http://sgcafe.com/2012/11/dmc-devil...-japan-producer-motohide-eshiro-event-report/

It was something about how constricting they thought the hard lock was, because they wanted you to move more freely in a much easier fashion, and execute actions without so much complexity. DMC2 actually toyed with it, but it came out a bit wonky (an unlock button...? Really guys?). The hard lock was sort of a relic from the Resident Evil days after all, and they already loosened the controls a bit so we could shoot without having to hold R1.

I think all in all it depends on the overall mechanics of the game, since there's merit in both lock mechanics, but one is better for an specific overall set. Even then though, the classic's Hard Lock could have been loosened a bit more, no real need for it to force you into a walking animation, although I will always enjoy the shooting while hopping backwards animation

Still think DmC could have had an R3 lock like the Souls games, I wonder how that would have changed things, if the pace would have be compromised at all...

I think Dragon's Dogma may have been where Itsuno tested a few things, since that game has a similar soft lock mechanic. Ho man, if only it was just a liiiittle more stylish - I had to wait until Hyrule Warriors to be able to launch and air juggle dudes with a sword and shield

http://www.vg247.com/2012/07/14/capcom-100-behind-new-dmc-original-style-may-return-in-future/
http://community/threads/were-gonna...ante-voice-actor-submit-your-questions.13795/
(second link was deleted for some reason but TIm Phillips said himself that continuity awaits both dantes.)
So I submitted at least one bulletproof evidence, yet you didn't . As such your words are nothing but empty air, without any solid ground. Maybe it's time you got over your apologist fanboy atitude and started at least trying to come up with solid articles, instead of some lame excuses like "it was 4 years", "I don't remember" or "I hear voices in my head".

The fact that it was over four years ago is not really a lame excuse, chummer. As a denizen of the internet, you should know damn well how difficult it can be to find old information if you have little to go on but a phrase. But, what the hell ever, I'm sure I'm not the only one who remembers that article, but I came across too many dead links and have too little time to spend scouring the internet like I used to. So, apologies that I don't remember the exact location of an article I read some four years ago. You might also be disappointed to know I don't quite remember what I had as a snack on October 13th 2011. I think it was an apple.

Anyway, your article there doesn't actually disprove what I said either. It talks about and assures people that the classic series hasn't been replaced, and if they really want a DMC5, they aren't adverse to the idea of making one - they are just focused on DmC at the moment. What I had read a while back was that there were no plans of a DMC5 in the works at all, that DmC was the only thing that people would have gotten out of the franchise. DMC5 wasn't passed up for making DmC, because there were no plans for a DM5, they were wholly focused on DmC, and if they hadn't been making DmC, there wouldn't be any other DMC games made in its place.

 

[Chancey289]

The heart of the Devil May Cry series is in its tone, style, and painstakingly-choreographed combat.

Without those things, a character as inconsistently-presented as Dante wouldn't be nearly as important to the fans as he is now...because no matter how many changes he goes through---from laid-back professional in DMC1, to the contemplative mute in DMC2, to the flamboyant hot-head in DMC3, to the rugged trickster in DMC4, even the impulsive youth in DmC---those three things are the most memorable and important things about him as DMC's protagonist.

I saw DmC still have those things too. It's still pretty over the top and self aware especially when it comes to the social satire. It obviously doesn't take itself seriously in that regard. And I like the fun fast and furious stylized combat of Devil May Cry which DmC also has.

Looks like Devil May Cry to me.

Plus, the core of the kind of character he is, is that he's basically a ginslinging sword swinging guy who talks smack to demons and spouts one liners. DmC also has that too.

I simply like DmC mostly just because it was fun to play. That's why I play video games in the first place.

And what do you know, I'm still one of the few people on this forum that still actually thinks DMC 1 is the best Devil May Cry I have ever played period. But I get antagonized for digging the new game as well because it means I hate DMC. I've got to basically pick a side in this ridiculous fandom. I can't like both versions.

Finally, it's still just a f#cking video game. VIDEO GAMES. We all like them and it's fine to get passionate about stuff you like, but people get too carried away and really need to stop taking games so seriously.

 

[Foxtrot94]

The heart of the Devil May Cry series is in its tone, style, and painstakingly-choreographed combat.

Without those things, a character as inconsistently-presented as Dante wouldn't be nearly as important to the fans as he is now...because no matter how many changes he goes through---from laid-back professional in DMC1, to the contemplative mute in DMC2, to the flamboyant hot-head in DMC3, to the rugged trickster in DMC4, even the impulsive youth in DmC---those three things are the most memorable and important things about him as DMC's protagonist.

Well, each of us has his limits on what he can stand. Personally (I repeat: PERSONALLY), I could accept the slight differences between DMC1 and DMC3/4 Dante, but absolutely not the differences the new Dante featured, both aesthetic-wise and character-wise. The limits of what I could stand were surpassed with DmC. But my limits are not necessarily the same of yours, or any other person, and that's cool, I have no problem with it, as long as you don't try to force me to like what I don't like. How do you say in English? To each his own, right?

When it comes to gameplay, I'm not gonna lie, I liked it, just not as much as the previous titles. Gameplay-wise, yeah it felt like a fun hack and slash, but throughout the game I was missing one of the major things that had made the old DMC fun to me: the challenge. In my first playthrough, never died once (or yeah, maybe once, against Vergil I think). Never happened in a DMC before. But I think there's another thread for this, so maybe I just got off topic. Sorry about that

 

[TWOxACROSS]

Well, each of us has his limits on what he can stand. Personally (I repeat: PERSONALLY), I could accept the slight differences between DMC1 and DMC3/4 Dante, but absolutely not the differences the new Dante featured, both aesthetic-wise and character-wise. The limits of what I could stand were surpassed with DmC. But my limits are not necessarily the same of yours, or any other person, and that's cool, I have no problem with it, as long as you don't try to force me to like what I don't like. How do you say in English? To each his own, right?

The rough part is that we're totally meant and able to understand that DmC Dante is different, right? He's not from the same universe as the classic, he's an entirely different interpretation of the character that lived a life with varying degrees of difference to the classic. However, it's weird that Dante was so inconsistent in the timeline of the classic series, because he went from being a ninja turtle fratboy, to a chill professional, back to a weirdo fun-loving clown, and then to a completely stoic, stonecold badass (3-1-4-2 remember). Mind you, I'm not talking about whether you like or dislike DmC Dante and whatnot, just that it's strange for people to be so caught up in classic Dante's personality when it was so inconsistent that it's strange that people would be upset that DmC Dante was different for a soundly legitimate reason.

 

[Innsmouth]

Anyway, your article there doesn't actually disprove what I said either. It talks about and assures people that the classic series hasn't been replaced, and if they really want a DMC5, they aren't adverse to the idea of making one - they are just focused on DmC at the moment. What I had read a while back was that there were no plans of a DMC5 in the works at all, that DmC was the only thing that people would have gotten out of the franchise. DMC5 wasn't passed up for making DmC, because there were no plans for a DM5, they were wholly focused on DmC, and if they hadn't been making DmC, there wouldn't be any other DMC games made in its place.

And now you just jumped from one theme to another. Sequel for DMC4 was planned right after it's release. It was stated by Itsuno when he said he gonna correct mistakes in next game. Now idea to make DmC came out like 2 years later. Now connect dots. Sequel would have been made. but instead of DMC5 they made DmC.
Second. connect next 2 dots. Claiming they MAY make sequel =/= DMC5 never gonna be made like you said. Honestly it gets tiresome to explain you everything as if you are 3 years old kid :/
So go ahead, and try to prove something, but before it, pick at least one more or less solid proof that what are you saying really something factual.

 

[Chancey289]

Yea, the intention behind DmC's version of Dante was to be different, yet Dante has never really been in the same spirit since the first game as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Foxtrot94]

Yea, the intention behind DmC's version of Dante was to be different, yet Dante has never really been in the same spirit since the first game as far as I'm concerned.

DMC3 and 4' Dante are actually in the same spirit, and that's the Dante I'm attached to, the "Reuben Langdon version".

 

[Chancey289]

DMC3 and 4' Dante are actually in the same spirit, and that's the Dante I'm attached to, the "Reuben Langdon version".

Most of you are primarily fans of just DMC 3 and 4. I can tell.

 

[LordOfDarkness]

Honestly it gets tiresome to explain you everything as if you are 3 years old kid :/

Putting your point across is acceptable. But these types of comments, that personally seem like flaming, aren't acceptable. Please try to refrain from these types of comments in future.

 

[Viper]

The rough part is that we're totally meant and able to understand that DmC Dante is different, right? He's not from the same universe as the classic, he's an entirely different interpretation of the character that lived a life with varying degrees of difference to the classic. However, it's weird that Dante was so inconsistent in the timeline of the classic series, because he went from being a ninja turtle fratboy, to a chill professional, back to a weirdo fun-loving clown, and then to a completely stoic, stonecold badass (3-1-4-2 remember). Mind you, I'm not talking about whether you like or dislike DmC Dante and whatnot, just that it's strange for people to be so caught up in classic Dante's personality when it was so inconsistent that it's strange that people would be upset that DmC Dante was different for a soundly legitimate reason.

From what I remember, DMC2 Dante was hugely criticized for having such a different personality. In fact, I think back then a lot of people projected the hate for that change onto the game as whole.
DMC3 Dante had a lot of young fans, the change in generations probably helped him. And people generally like positive characters.
With DMC4 Dante... you either loved him a lot, or you cringed a lot. To this day people laugh at him and say he looks and acts ridiculous.
So there were always some problems with changes.
Then came along DmC Dante that didn't look anything like the previous one, no connections except the name and special heritage. And it might have been a bit too much at once.
Also take into account this is the generation that likes to throw their opinion around a lot, in fact ranting about things is the popular thing to do, and many of them have all the anger but not much logic.

 

[Innsmouth]

Best question still remains....When you want to make DIFFERENT character. Who's nothing like original one. And has different looks, personality and pretty much everything except name and vaguely heritage....Why even make him same character? To ride on cheap controversy?

 

[Chancey289]

From what I remember, DMC2 Dante was hugely criticized for having such a different personality. In fact, I think back then a lot of people projected the hate for that change onto the game as whole.
.

Seriously, Dante in DMC 2 is just a quiet and stoic protagonist, but the game is not the unplayable mess the fanbase likes to make it out to be. It's just kinda underwhelming since it was coming off of the first game which really was a game changer at the time. DMC 2's badness is pretty exaggerated.

 

[Lord Nero]

Mind you, I'm not talking about whether you like or dislike DmC Dante and whatnot, just that it's strange for people to be so caught up in classic Dante's personality when it was so inconsistent that it's strange that people would be upset that DmC Dante was different for a soundly legitimate reason.

''Yea, the intention behind DmC's version of Dante was to be different, yet Dante has never really been in the same spirit since the first game as far as I'm concerned.''
- Chancey

And that is exactly what people have been trying to tell you (I tried to in my last post): people don't hate the change itself, it's the type of change. If people really hated change, don't you think DMC2 would've completely destroyed the fanbase, and DMC3 again? And DMC4 after that? Nobody cares new Dante is different, they just don't like what he's become... and by 'they' I mean many DMC fans as well as gamers in general. And whatever reason they may have for that is valid, as it's all just personal: it's an opinion born from attraction/non-attraction.
I see it as: 1/3 of people liked DmC and its version of Dante, 1/3 didn't, and the people who aren't really fans of Devil May Cry (the last 1/3) also didn't.

It's happened with each DMC game: some didn't like DMC2 Dante, others did. Some didn't like DMC3 Dante, others did. Some didn't like DMC4 Dante, others did. Splits in the fanbase every time.

 

[Lord Nero]

And now you just jumped from one theme to another. Sequel for DMC4 was planned right after it's release. It was stated by Itsuno when he said he gonna correct mistakes in next game. Now idea to make DmC came out like 2 years later. Now connect dots. Sequel would have been made. but instead of DMC5 they made DmC.
Second. connect next 2 dots. Claiming they MAY make sequel =/= DMC5 never gonna be made like you said. Honestly it gets tiresome to explain you everything as if you are 3 years old kid :/
So go ahead, and try to prove something, but before it, pick at least one more or less solid proof that what are you saying really something factual.

Calm down, please. It's easy to get angry, but not nearly as rewarding as keeping it cool. Let's keep this thread open so we can all enjoy it.

 

[Viper]

Seriously, Dante in DMC 2 is just a quiet and stoic protagonist, but the game is not the unplayable mess the fanbase likes to make it out to be. It's just kinda underwhelming since it was coming off of the first game which really was a game changer at the time. DMC 2's badness is pretty exaggerated.

I look at DMC2 Dante as a separate entity and yeah the game is awesome, very much like an action movie (though Arius could have used a bit of change, he reminded me kinda of a cartoon villain). I really love to watch Dante shoot cause it was done so beautifully.
Back in the day reviews liked to point out this drastic change in personality, this is why I mentioned projected hate, it's possible that the disappointment made them prejudiced and see faults where there weren't any.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

And now you just jumped from one theme to another. Sequel for DMC4 was planned right after it's release. It was stated by Itsuno when he said he gonna correct mistakes in next game. Now idea to make DmC came out like 2 years later. Now connect dots. Sequel would have been made. but instead of DMC5 they made DmC.
Second. connect next 2 dots. Claiming they MAY make sequel =/= DMC5 never gonna be made like you said. Honestly it gets tiresome to explain you everything as if you are 3 years old kid :/
So go ahead, and try to prove something, but before it, pick at least one more or less solid proof that what are you saying really something factual.

Where in your working article was it said that Itsuno wanted to corrected the mistakes in the next game, and how does that strictly imply that he meant to correct them for a DMC5, and not DmC, the game he'd been working on? I'm gonna need to see where he said this to get the context in which it was said.

From what I remember, DMC2 Dante was hugely criticized for having such a different personality. In fact, I think back then a lot of people projected the hate for that change onto the game as whole.
DMC3 Dante had a lot of young fans, the change in generations probably helped him. And people generally like positive characters.
With DMC4 Dante... you either loved him a lot, or you cringed a lot. To this day people laugh at him and say he looks and acts ridiculous.
So there were always some problems with changes.
Then came along DmC Dante that didn't look anything like the previous one, no connections except the name and special heritage. And it might have been a bit too much at once.
Also take into account this is the generation that likes to throw their opinion around a lot, in fact ranting about things is the popular thing to do, and many of them have all the anger but not much logic.

Yeah, it's just a very curious thing. For the most part, it's not that big a deal that classic Dante's personality was inconsistent, I still enjoyed them, and to a degree there's storytelling potential to explaining how he changed the way he did, especially to becoming what he was in DMC2. The only one that's still starkly jarring is the 1 to 4 change, because it was like he regressed or something >.<

 

[Innsmouth]

Where in your working article was it said that Itsuno wanted to corrected the mistakes in the next game, and how does that strictly imply that he meant to correct them for a DMC5, and not DmC, the game he'd been working on? I'm gonna need to see where he said this to get the context in which it was said.

DmC didn't existed before they adressed NT. It was clearly stated that they were making plans for DMC5, but since itsuno was on Dragons Dogma + they wanted to expand audience they wanted to try western approach. DmC was never would have been made inside Capcom.

 

[Viper]

@TWOxACROSS
The regression of DMC4 Dante's personality I think was because DMC3 Dante was received so great, so Capcom probably wanted to repeat the formula to help sales. Numbers were great... opinions were divided.

 

[Rebel Dynasty]

Yeah, it's just a very curious thing. For the most part, it's not that big a deal that classic Dante's personality was inconsistent, I still enjoyed them, and to a degree there's storytelling potential to explaining how he changed the way he did, especially to becoming what he was in DMC2. The only one that's still starkly jarring is the 1 to 4 change, because it was like he regressed or something >.<

Hey, isn't this usually the type of thing you would refer to as, "head-canon"? :tongue:

Teasing aside, yes; I figure the changes from his personality between the first four games is fairly easy to explain away--I don't know if I'd call it regression...

Okay, maybe a little; but I always kind of interpreted it as Dante having reached peace of mind, by the time of DMC4. In DMC2...well, I'm just going to have to assume something as awful (as what happened in his back story) or worse occurred, to make him so much more stoic. Or perhaps by then it's not a matter of something awful occurring, but of just another stage in character development (I know, I know! Capcom doesn't really do character development...humour me, here).

I know it's been said before (hell, I've said it, myself), but people seldom remain the same their whole lives--and thank whatever gods that we don't! I sure as hell wouldn't want to be the same person I was a couple of years ago.

I've actually gotten to the point where I can't remember what I originally said in this thread when it was first created, but I'll add on (or maybe reiterate) that the DmC version is still a very stark contrast to any one of the first four stages of original Dante. I suppose the closest character I could compare him to would be Nero, though not entirely (since...well, I like Nero...despite the overly emotional aspects, which btw, would be completely understandable, given the circumstances).

Hate existed/exists, yes; but, I think there's more at work than just "hating" DmC Dante. Even those who like the game may not find that they click very well with him, for whatever reasons. It all comes down to preference, I wager. ^^;

 

[TWOxACROSS]

Best question still remains....When you want to make DIFFERENT character. Who's nothing like original one. And has different looks, personality and pretty much everything except name and vaguely heritage....Why even make him same character? To ride on cheap controversy?

Different look is because, well, different art style, and also because it had relevance to the story being told (like his hair being black). Different personality? It isn't really all that different from classic Dante's personality, but with a few stark differences because of, again, the story being told. DmC Dante is different because the story being told is an origin story, it was to show growth of character and him becoming like the classic Dante. They can't just take the exact same character because there's no way to actually show growth, unless that growth turns him into something different. One of the very first things said about DmC Dante was that he's a raw version of the classic we know: he still loves a good fight (or party, as the classic calls them), likes to crack jokes and handles serious situations with a truckload of facetiousness, and hey, he even still seems to enjoy drinking (Seriously, there were faux-Jack Daniels bottles all over classic Dante's office). And unless classic Dante was a monk, he probably enjoyed the horizontal polka to a similar degree as DmC Dante.

So, he's not really "nothing like the original." There's quite a bit that makes him similar. There's just a lot of very outward and surface-level stuff that's different, which is entirely the point of telling a story about how he becomes the champion of humanity that the classic Dante is. DmC is the story of Dante cleaning up his act and getting his sh!t together.

Another studio's interpretation of a character/story is going to obviously be different, otherwise what the hell is the point of doing it. If the desire is to see that different interpretation and try new and different things, that's just par for the course.