Vergil's true motivations( from a official book called Trinity of Fates)

[V]

Oh, and can someone briefly explain to me something about Jungian theories and the connections it has with the representations of Dante and Vergil as each other's shadows? I do not know much, so I can't follow you, sorry...

Moses would be the person to ask about that, but I don't know if he's here still or if he left. . .

I did discuss that in depth with him (the symbolism of the moon in front of Vergil prompted it), but I've lost those PMs as they were on Devil's Lair :/

Not sure about he book, but as I see it, they both dealt with the death differently and diverged in behaviour as a result: one saw the responsibility for the death as belonging to "demons" and coped with it by directing his negative feelings towards them (Dante). The other saw the responsibility for the death in the inherent weakness of being human, and dealt with it by systematically eliminating the weaknesses that caused it, or the state of being human and therefore weak (Vergil). They're both reasonable reactions to a traumatic event with a known perpetrator, though I'd say Dante's is more 'emotional' and Vergil's 'logical' in nature.

To this you have to add the fact that neither of them are 'just' human, and I'm going to assume that emotions like rage, greed and pride and so on are exacerbated in them both thanks to their demonic nature.

Vergil's motivations would apparently be:

Pride (he actively appears to want to be Sparda's successor - he doesn't deny it when Dante calls him on it); you can also sense from things put in there that he has a certain breed of morals in which he only bothers fighting people who are either an obstacle/traitor or are otherwise worthy of his ability (did not kill Lady, who attacked him, fights fair against Dante, and later Nelo's reputation);

Fear (though he controls all outward signs of general 'fear', the quest for strength would ultimately come from the fear of death and/or fear of emotional pain from losing someone dear to you, which he feels he can eliminate by becoming more powerful. Alluding to 'protecting' anything and 'protecting yourself' shows how happy he is to demonstrate this fact to Dante's face and how important a lesson it was to him... and his personality in general suggests he's in the habit of regularly suppressing a whole bunch of emotions);

Greed (moar power plz);

Boredom - I think this is a big one, as big as any other of his motivations. "Where's your motivation?" "How boring", etc. Remember, he's half-demon and far more powerful than any regular demon, with or without Sparda's power. Imagine that demonic blood coursing in your bits and yet living a normal, tame human life? Would be difficult if you had even an ounce of bloodlust, desire for revenge, or just the desire to stretch those abilities you have - humans are no match for Sparda's kids, and Vergil wants a challenge. Victory or death! Just look how he reacts to Mundus.

Revenge: Probably to some extent, though not as vehemently as Dante, I suspect, since Vergil doesn't habour the same automatic disgust for demons that Dante does, it's not likely he's in it for revenge - he considers himself 'one of them' clearly, though superior to them, no doubt.

 

[Gel]

I remember talked to Moses about Trinity of Fates sometime ago but was about Trish and salvific meeting, not Vergil, but I found a IGN threat where he talks about Trinity of Fates and Vergil.
Here:
http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/v...trinity-of-fates-translation-stuff.160231474/

 

[berto]

I remember talked to Moses about Trinity of Fates sometime ago but was about Trish and salvific meeting, not Vergil, but I found a IGN threat where he talks about Trinity of Fates and Vergil.
Here:
http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/v...trinity-of-fates-translation-stuff.160231474/

All of her links to her blog lead no where and only friends can view the older posts.

 

[788Masri]

i always stood by my theory that Vergil did what he did because his past traumas drove him mad with grief. unable to move on he decided to ensure that it would never happen again to him by emulating the most powerful figure in his life. is father Sparda. as such he supressed his human half as much as possible as he saw it as his weakness. (none of this is concious mind you). and he goes on a quest to gain his fathers power.

 

[IncarnatedDemon]

i always stood by my theory that Vergil did what he did because his past traumas drove him mad with grief. unable to move on he decided to ensure that it would never happen again to him by emulating the most powerful figure in his life. is father Sparda. as such he supressed his human half as much as possible as he saw it as his weakness. (none of this is concious mind you). and he goes on a quest to gain his fathers power.

Wow that's pretty good

 

[Jak]

This "official" book got his "motives" all wrong, that's why. That's most likely why it was never released in the U.S. Too many fans would have disagreed.

Even waaaaaay before DmC, people have contested to the fact that Vergil is evil, so it's not just me.

He did it for himself.

That "power-to-protect" reason was just a way to make himself look morally "in-the-right" when he was speaking with Dante.

Remember, Vergil is a very vain person.

His self-image comes first and foremost before anything else (that's one of the main reasons why he wants power, he wants to make himself look better).

I'm sure he tries to convince himself that he's doing it for "protection", but deep down, he knows he's only doing it for himself.

Guy raises a tower, kills thousands in the process, and shows zero remorse.

Yeah, that's very altruistic.

Look at his facial expression. Does this look like a man who's sorry to you?

No, he just looks annoyed that the pesky human populace is in the way of his precious power.

Say what you will about DmC Vergil...

At least he was honest enough to say what he really wanted and why... instead of trying to cover up his motives with bullshit "honor reasoning".

Wow.... fratricide. Stay classy, Vergil.



Edit: Look, I don't care about DMC. But I won't allow people to defend acts of mass murder for personal gain and act like it's actually the right thing to do.

That is just wrong. On so many levels.

Pride is not honor, people. Not by a long shot.

And Vergil has too much pride for his own good.

i agree AND disagree. classic vergil is a very vain and prideful person. yet, if your mind is as ****ed up as mine you'd see that vergil has pretty much the same goal as DmC vergil. He wants to protect everything he cares for. He believes that power can grant him this ability to prevent anything bad happening to his loved ones. he will do this no matter the cost, and the very reason he is doing it is because he feels guilty for not having enough power to protect his mom. Vergil keeps all of this buried though. i guess its his pride. so he can maintain his "image" in the demon world. and the thing about those people getting hurt be his tower does affect him. he just can't show it in front of his friends.

 

[Stylish Nero]

Pride is not honor, people. Not by a long shot.

It depends on your definition of honor and pride.

In Japan, commiting suicide after bringing shame upon yourself (well back in the feudal days if a samurai failed a mission they commit sepuku) and now if you fail to get into a certain college or fail class they commit suicide for suicide in Japan (for the most part..or usually) is a honorable way to go. I also read a story where a Japanese businessman business went under so out of honor (says the story) the man killed himself and gased his family (his wife and 2 daughters) killing them as well. Now question that is that really honorable...for a good percentage of Japanese people might think it is.

Based on what reasons why people commit suicide it seems more like pride rather than honor.

 

[Demi-fiend]

i agree AND disagree.

I can see why. It's not as black and white as it seems at first. Vergil keeps it buried because he's too ashamed to show Dante how he really feels. It wouldn't suit it the "noble, warrior-like image" that he had already built up for himself.

It depends on your definition of honor and pride.
In Japan, commiting suicide after bringing shame upon yourself...
Based on what reasons why people commit suicide it seems more like pride rather than honor.

I can see each of your perspectives on this. Isn't it nice to have a debate without calling the other person completely wrong? I also quoted Nero's post because I saw a vid on youtube dealing with Japanese suicide. It was a hard vid to watch, but I couldn't stop myself, either.

 

[rocketvergil]

What did you expect?

It would be naive to think that you can just write something like your "theory" without being questioned. At least, you must have some possible evidences from the game to even reckon he had a wife in the first place.

Nero didnt come out of vergil's mouth you know. And, yes he has been confirmed as vergil's son in an official artbook

 

[rocketvergil]

Well, then we might as well close the thread. Those who want to discuss what the OP says will still want to discuss it and those who disagree will insist on negating it.

I'd like to keep analyzing that translation but all I'm ganna get is people telling me why it's wrong.

I dont like it how everyone is assuming that he/she is the creator of devil may cry and is completely disregarding the opinions of others. That is why I asked to stop the war. I have no problems with discussions

 

[D-Sparda]

Nero didnt come out of vergil's mouth you know. And, yes he has been confirmed as vergil's son in an official artbook

Nero is none of my concern right now, only the supposed wife.

 

[TerrorA]

Nero is none of my concern right now, only the supposed wife.

Or girlfriend, or lover.

Seriously, why wife? My parents weren't married and I exist.

 

[Stylish Nero]

Or girlfriend, or lover.

Seriously, why wife? My parents weren't married and I exist.

Maybe they were crazy scientist and created you through a test tube.

 

[D-Sparda]

Or girlfriend, or lover.

Seriously, why wife? My parents weren't married and I exist.

That individual classified the possible significant other of Vergil as a wife and nothing else.

 

[TerrorA]

Maybe they were crazy scientist and created you through a test tube.

Maybe I'm from the same planet that abandoned you

 

[Stylish Nero]

Maybe I'm from the same planet that abandoned you

Maybe the Earth was created by the great Turd God.

ALL HAIL THE GREAT TURD GOD!!!

 

[TerrorA]

Maybe the Earth was created by the great Turd God.

ALL HAIL THE GREAT TURD GOD!!!

 

[rocketvergil]

Nero is none of my concern right now, only the supposed wife.

Children are born to their mothers if you didnt know. And I theorized that vergil had a wife and gave birth to nero. Why wife? Because it's my theory, I can theorize whatever I want to. Plus, By wife I indicated his lover, "wife" is the first word that came to my mind when I thought of his lover and I wrote it.

 

[LysseC]

snip

I skipped answering because it seemed to me that the discussion took another direction, but since Jak brought this up again...

As he said, I too agree and disagree with you. I certainly am not defending his actions as RIGHT when I said that they were not, strictly speaking, selfish. Surely raising Temen ni Gru in the middle of a city, causing a great number of casualties in the process is NOT the right thing to do.

Vergil does not search for power because he is vain or simply evil, according to the official book we are discussing about.
The fact that those reasons he had for raising the tower (searching for power because of the mess there is in his head in consequence of the trauma of Eva's death, and his interpretation of Sparda's legacy) are not clear enough in the game cutscenes is, imo, a consequence of weak storytelling on Capcom's part. I for one had always interpreted his reasons as being something akin to what is written in that book, but, since this came from my personal speculation, and not from having read the book, I always recognized those theories as, indeed, fan speculation, and accepted other fans' theories as equally valid, exactly because the original game is not clear enough, and give only too subtle hints to his real motivations.
But since now, thanks to Gel's kindness I can read parts of the book, I have some stronger confirmation of the Vergil-is-not-plain-evil theory (where with 'plain evil' I mean that he searches for power because of deeper, more complicated reasons that simply the fact he wants to look like Sparda).

Now, as I already stated, the fact that the REASONS for his actions are not completely wrong in themselves (a, maybe unconscious, desire to protect himself and the ones he loves) does not imply that his ACTIONS are right, because other considerations must be made in judging actions than simply an explanation of the reasons that lead to them.
Explaining the reasons for an action is not necessarily JUSTIFYING them.


Edit
Yes, maybe he is irredeemable now, but not because he was 'a bad person' from the very beginning, I think. He maybe started as a good person, but the trauma of Eva's death 'messed up' with his moral judgements and he BECAME bad (maybe irredeemable if he continues to deny humans an importance).
It's kinda different than saying he was evil to begin with, as in, he had ALWAYS wanted power, regardless of his trauma. In this second case, he would have become a bad person IN ANY CASE, regardless of specific events in his life.
In the first case, though, there was at least A POSSIBILITY (for example, if Eva didn't die) that he did not come out as (irredeemably) bad as he is in DMC3.

 

[ROCKMAN X]

I thought you said RE 4 sucked for a second there. And I know all about the Resident Evil series. I've pretty much beaten every RE game out there. And no RE doesn't have the best writing as it's pretty cheesy and silly. The bad voice acting an all. It's more funny than anything for the most part.

Well original Resident evil 1 was cheesy and silly.. but RE2&3 have a much better narrative and storyline and no where it had "generic action hero" with paper thin storyline.

I agree that RE2&3's storyline isn't exactly Shakesphere's class but for a game it is great especially when compared to other non-RPG games.