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DmC "Deserved Better"

LordOfDarkness

The Dark Avenger © †
Moderator
Premium Elite
Premium
Supporter 2014
Xen-Omni 2020
@Innsmouth: I mostly agree with what you just said about how both sides are at fault. However, correct me if I'm wrong but isn't one of the main gripes for people that enjoy DmC the fact that others say it "isn't Devil May Cry"? Yeah there are those that like it, and those that don't - that's absolutely fine, no issue. I just think the problem is people dismissing it as a Devil May Cry game just because of personal taste.
 

Demi-fiend

Metempsychosis
Supporter 2014
I just think the problem is people dismissing it as a Devil May Cry game just because of personal taste.
So do I, actually. You can't just say, "Oh, this or that isn't DMC because I don't like it."

Koji Igarashi took Circle of the Moon "out of canon" then later put it back in (because he didn't create CotM). Even when the guy in charge does it, it doesn't make sense. :/

It's not the same as not calling it Castlevania, but it's similar because you're saying it never happened to begin with.
 
Last edited:

Judge

Well-known Member
If DmC was really so different from its predecessors, I'd be the first one to tell you as I am a very avid fan of both incarnations with DMC 1 still being my absolute favorite.

I'm gonna be very blunt here. The detractors are mainly people, like most of you here, who primarily enjoy DMC 3/4 the most out of all the incarnations and define the series as a whole by those two games.

DmC is still rightfully a friggin Devil May Cry game, and a fun one at that and that's the main reason I play video games. To have fun. I don't see why it's so hard for some people why longtime Devil May Cry fans like myself still enjoy DmC.

Your post hits the bullseye. We know a lot of the unfair criticisim lobbied at DmC was to do with how "Devil May Cry never needed a reboot". Which is the crux of what this Main Event blogger said yesterday; that DMC4 sold 3 mil copies and that the series was better than ever when DMC4 came out.

Then what happened was Capcom turned around and said they would release DMC4 SE. All I've seen with DMC4 SE is the same thing with DMC4. The franchise is not better than ever. DMC4 SE has recieved a lot of criticisim, I haven't seen many fans who consider it a great game, and even the reviews were unfaviourable towards it. The same people who said "Devil May Cry dosen't need a reboot" ignore anything wrong with DMC4: SE.

The problem with DmC, aside from a few creative things that could've been improved, is that it came out at the worst time you could release a rebooted game. A lot of games faded into dark that came out that year, such as Dead Space 3, Castlevania Lords of Shadow 2, or even Metal Gear Rising, which is a dead and buried game. It was very bad timing. Despite that, DmC did okay.
 

Triggerpigking

Well-known Member
I don't think the series was better then ever when dmc4 came out, the story took a nosedive from 3 and of course there's the infamous lack of content. However, barring the lock on and a few other issues, dmc4 has stayed very relevant due to its amazing combat system. Best comparision I can think of is mgs5, everything barring the gameplay in that game is decent to meh, but the gameplay is so refined that it's damn addictive, i've played dmc4 for hours upon hours still would'nt rate it higher then an 8 though due to all it's flaws.
I'd argue vanilla DmC was a bit broken from what i've seen as well, the gameplay looked way to easy and slow however as I said they did go back and improve it unlike dmc4:SE which gives me a lot more respect for them.
And regardless of if people dislike 4 or not, 1 game should not be enough to reboot an entire franchise, it's even funnier when you remember the series almost died after 2 before they bought it back.

The qaulity of DmC does'nt matter to me, it's a great game but the tone, storytelling pretty much everything is different, even the gameplay and controls barring the style system works differently, if the entire game was better then the dmc series i'd still say it's not a devil may cry game. if it had a different name and a few other story and name changes it'd be unrecognizable to me personally, which would be good as we need new i.ps in this genre, not one to erase away an old beloved series.

Honestly in general game reboots are usually a silly thing, if they think the old series was'nt selling enough or did'nt have a big enough fanbase to keep it going, and was doing so bad that it required a complete makeover(all of which I disagree with).
Why then make a new series and staple that name on for brand recognition?, I can't think of many instances when this does'nt end in outrage.
 

AgentRedgrave

Legendary Devil Hunter
Your post hits the bullseye. We know a lot of the unfair criticisim lobbied at DmC was to do with how "Devil May Cry never needed a reboot". Which is the crux of what this Main Event blogger said yesterday; that DMC4 sold 3 mil copies and that the series was better than ever when DMC4 came out.

Then what happened was Capcom turned around and said they would release DMC4 SE. All I've seen with DMC4 SE is the same thing with DMC4. The franchise is not better than ever. DMC4 SE has recieved a lot of criticisim, I haven't seen many fans who consider it a great game, and even the reviews were unfaviourable towards it. The same people who said "Devil May Cry dosen't need a reboot" ignore anything wrong with DMC4: SE.

The problem with DmC, aside from a few creative things that could've been improved, is that it came out at the worst time you could release a rebooted game. A lot of games faded into dark that came out that year, such as Dead Space 3, Castlevania Lords of Shadow 2, or even Metal Gear Rising, which is a dead and buried game. It was very bad timing. Despite that, DmC did okay.
DMC4 is certainly no perfect game that's no lie, it was neither the best, or even the second best of the original series.
However, the game certainly wasn't a failure, the general consensus was that it was a good game, and it was the best selling.
I don't disagree that the series wasn't "better then ever" when DMC4 came around. But regardless of a handful of people not liking DMC4, it still doesn't mean the series was overall in any danger.
 

Triggerpigking

Well-known Member
However, the game certainly wasn't a failure, the general consensus was that it was a good game, and it was the best selling.

interesting, I did'nt know it was the best selling. Which, regardless of dmc4's actual quality is all a company would really think about.
The reason for even putting the series on ice is baffling, and the longer they've waited the less well known the series has gotten.

for some reason a few years ago Capcom really did just come to the conclusion that a bunch of series either needed to be rebooted or had to go in different directions, resident evil was selling brilliantly but 5 began to move that series in a different route, Megaman always sold great but they suddently decided no one wanted the series(and also at one point tried to reboot it as an admittedly neat looking but not megaman looking first person shooter) and of course dmc4 sells tons and they decide to put it on ice for years, even when shown proof these series are still wanted such as mighty no 9 or how much the resident evil remakes are selling, they still keep trying to push it in another direction.
 

absolitude

the devil is not as black as he painted
yeah, when they wanted some series to go different direction, i get it if the reasons were something like not getting the expected numbers or wanted to get wider audience..

with DMC especially after the release of 4, it sure is weird being it the best selling and they still wanted to go different direction.. but the answer to that is within the company themselves mainly the team doing devil may cry, @Gel knows better about this, about the how and why.. well it's pretty convoluted and honestly shocking for me..

anyway, in the end the point stands still, devil may cry deserved better from capcom
 

WolfOD64

That Guy Who Hates Fox McCloud
ATTENTION: UNBRIDLED AND SENSELESS RANT INCOMING

I've had this rant brewing for an extremely long time, but given the discussion, I feel it's relevant to finally commit to text. It's not about the franchise's progression, not about Capcom, not even about the individual games themselves...as I've serviced myself a sizable piece about the thing, or specifically the one game, responsible for the series' most serious maladies...No. This rant's mainly about what I think this article and many game journals online poorly articulate about the status of the Devil May Cry series, and the true nature of the conflict that arose in the reboot's presence....more importantly, the gestation and evolution of the series' most daunting and gluttonous predators: the Fanbase itself.

Now, I want to be perfectly transparent about something: the experiences I make mention of in this lengthy yarn is based on NOTHING I have encountered on these forums in particular. As unnecessarily-heated and excessive as some of the discussions here on the good ol' DMC.org can be, they are NOTHING compared to the toxic swath of rancid forum shrieking that can't even be remotely construed as "arguments" that took place on countless other more infested, and less civil forums on this protracted insanity test that is the Internet.

So I what exactly bothers me about the reboot, and its dissent among the fandom? What did the reboot "not deserve"? What exactly did the worst or the fandom do to degrade itself to the point where the entire gaming community took notice?

If DmC was really so different from its predecessors, I'd be the first one to tell you as I am a very avid fan of both incarnations with DMC 1 still being my absolute favorite.
It's incredibly amusing that this point was made, because out of all the games in the series that have been released, DmC actually reminds me more of the original game than any other has even tried to be. Its premise, its variety in environments, its horror roots, its approach to enemy design and functionality, even its portrayal of Dante, who revived the original's standout trait of being fleshed out and varied enough to pass off as an actual character, instead of the tripe one-note mannequin that he'd end up being for two straight games.

I love the original DMC to death. It was the sole reason I bought my first PS2, and the only reason I clung to this series after the atrocities that were DMC2, DMC3, and the Animated Series. And I can safely say, without resignation, that no game in the franchise---not even 4---has come remotely as close as retreading the feeling of the original.

And the second you make that argument, people will instantly shriek: "BUT DMC3 & 4 ARE MORE ESSENTIAL AND TRUE TO THE TONE OF DEVIL MAY CRY THAN THE ORIGINALS TWO GAMES!" Thus diminishing their relevance as entries in the series, and dismissed entirely when discussing the series as a whole, presumably because they don't resemble their more anime-esque successors.

See, DMC fanboys (fanBOYS being the crucially-key term here) all have continued to shelter themselves under the umbrella of delusion that DMC, as a series, remained triumphantly consistent under one style and tone, one that the reboot promptly cartwheeled in and dislodged entirely...

And that's why I'm here to plead yet again on how that is absolutely and egregiously not the case.

Now, please excuse the long-winded and overthought analysis I'm going to make, but I feel I have to make it here, given how I've never understood the line of thinking rooted in this mentality. I think people really forget how drastically DMC shifted in tone and style when moving on from DMC1 & 2 to DMC3. The original style was more horror-esque, Gothic, with a lot of Western influences in the way the characters behaved and the arsenal they wielded---more akin to something like Hellsing. That kind of comparison may seem like a stretch, but think about it: they're both made with the sole purpose of emulating what their respective creators consider cool, with a large emphasis on visceral, pulp satisfaction, woven into over-the-top characters that emulate a style in pulp novels and action films from the late 80's and 90's. Both even have a larger emphasis on excessive firearms than use of the supernatural. Dante's arsenal has a larger lean towards customized guns and bulking firepower than Devil Arms in DMC1 & 2. In terms of style and tone, both of these are cut from the same cloth...and unlike later installments, had predominantly Western influences. This tone was present and vibrant in both of the Kamiya-approved DMC novels as well. Dante himself still acts more detective-like in these novels, and there's a larger emphasis on making him more like a Western action hero than a bishonen protagonist---and this was present in the stylization of other character in the novels as well.

But when DMC3 sauntered in, reeking of outdated anime cliches and nonsensical action set-dressing, the tone of the entire series changed radically. There was a larger emphasis on fight scenes and visceral appeal than atmosphere or ambiance. Enemies and weapons became less grounded in mythological and occult styles, and more goofy and Japanese-ridden. The very notion of Dante sporting a K-Pop haircut, strumming on a demonic guitar whilst jamming talking in diabetes-inducing "cool lingo" like some autistic skater kid from the 90's clashed wildly with the kind of laid-back, professional air that Dante had retained in both the first two games and the original novels. The way Dante fought, the way the cutscenes played out...even the visual inspiration for the weapons, bosses, and locales seemed painfully uninspired compared to the older games. Whereas DMC1 focused on explicitly Gothic environments and enemy types (Armored lizard warriors, Venetian puppets, grotesque insects, and spectral reapers), and DMC2 had a balanced divide between urban and ancient enemy types and locales (infected choppers and tanks, vs. Baphomet-looking goat men and scaly gargoyles) , DMC3 introduced this random, garbled mess of an art style for its weapon and enemy assets, with a larger emphasis on making estranging and exaggerated designs. The other games felt committed to satisfying one kind of essence to how the game looked and felt, whereas later games just felt like the creators just jumbled together whatever they thought "looked and felt cool", versus making sense for the environment (flying enemies with giant buzzsaws for shields, eyeballs that shoot lasers, enemies lugging around giant explosives or coffins)...not entirely unlike, ironically enough, the kind of senseless, bubbly, nonsenical, anime-ish enemy types infesting the Godawful latter-day Final Fantasy games...which is fairly-appropriate to associate with latter-day Dante himself, whose strumming of a lightning guitar and wielding of a "nunchuck-motorcycle" aren't entirely dissimilar to Snow Viliers' Shiva Cycle or Sazh's Brynhildr Dune Buggy. This really isn't about how the games play, or how the hack-n'-slash mechanics of the series developed over time...
(if anything, the later games didn't move away enough from the older games...especially given how DMC3 was still using the first game's clunky controls and cameras as late as 2005, well past the time its competitors knew better) it's more to do with the tonal shift of the series as a whole. And to be perfectly honest---despite what facetious and staunchly-clinging fans may claim in their biased fits of baseless elitism---that shift happened WELL before DmC ever entered the picture.

What I'm basically getting at here is that this series has NEVER been consistant in tone or style, even within the boundaries of its original series. It crossed a bridge into another style of "cool" when the games transitioned from 2 to 3. You know this, I know this....every observant fan with a head on their shoulders and who's played the games for a long time know this.

"But Wolf!" I hear you cry; "No one's talking about DmC's stylistic or tonal contradictions to the original series...the debate, the heart of the discussion, has always been about the GAMEPLAY!"

Really? Because I remember standing in the wake of the fire and brimstone of fan-broiled rage following DmC's initial debut back in 2010 and not a single person in the Devil May Cry fanbase was making mention about the gameplay.

Was the rage over his hair? Nope. It was the hair, the look of Dante's clothes, his physique, the style of art and aesthetic choices, and everything else.

I saw all manner of petty complaints...and by petty, I mean really petty. Things like his hair color and initial cigarette use were just the beginning: I can sit hear and quote for hours about how many comparisons people were making, calling the New Dante everything from a "Edward Cullen wannabe" to a "Emo cutter on crack" to a "Westified version of a perfectly-Japanese character". And they got even pettier, with complaints like
"Rebellion isn't big enough, and looks underdesigned", "or Ebony and Ivory look exaggerated and overdesigned", or "Dante's not muscular enough", or "Dante looks too beat up and bruised---when everyone KNOWS he's too uber-OP to take damage", or "he's not supposed to smoke, he's only suppose to eat strawberry sundaes and pizza" (even though the original Dante drinks, smokes and swears excessively in both of the Kamiya-based novels).The chest-slapping, shortbus-riding, ramen-swilling Naruto Headband-bedect seminal idiots occupying the cancerous bowels of whatever dwindiling ruins making up the Devil's Lair forums were too busy decrying the reboot on the basis of such mundane reasons, that they were unwittingly displaying the kind of shallow, petty whining that would make the Sonic Fanbase look like civil human beings...all because of aesthetic and stylistic changes to a franchise that was never stylistically consistent with its tone or characters to begin with. Not gameplay. Not mechanics. Not even legitimate grievances like the writing, the console port, or the casualized mechanics.

Now, keep in mind: this was two good years after DMC4...by this time, I had dislodged myself from the fanbase years prior. My interest in the series had long been drained, and I was not even remotely interested in playing a tried-true sequel OR a reboot. And if I hadn't indulged myself in revisiting the series through both the reboot and the HD Collection in recent years, you can bet that I would've never come back. Because in the heat of this stupid controversy, I never felt the cringe-inducing, wallowing urge to distance myself from the DMC fandom than I did then. People were literally raging over this game, before a second of gameplay had even been shown....not because it was bad (and no one had anyway of truly knowing for a fact that it was, unless they had telepathic means to access the game three years before its release)....no, because it was different.

This isn't the first time they've done this, either: These are the same people ostracized Nero mere seconds after he was revealed, disregarding any and all gameplay additions he could've brought as a new character, on the sole grounds that "he wasn't Dante", and therefore was deemed unacceptable before the game was even pressed to the disc. They anally ravaged Reuben Langdon when he was cast as the DMC3 Dante's voice, on the grounds that he wasn't Drew Coombs. Hell---the DMC Fanbase are the same livid, leering ingrates that actually committed themselves to a widespread petition to keep DMC4 PlayStation 3 exclusive to preserve its Sony exclusivity, because Capcom had the gall to attempt to subvert the series into the dangerous convenience of multi-platform inclusivity.

This
is the DMC Fanbase, people. The simpering, puckered elitists so rigid and entitled, that they will assume frontline war positions at the vaguest mirage of change. This seething fanatical mentality has been apart of the series LONG before Keiji Inafune even breathed the proposition of a Western reboot into the greedy ears of Capcom's shareholders...before Ninja Theory was single-handedly credited as advocating "unnacceptablr and inconsistent changes" to a series as consistent and impervious to change as a ****ing chameleon on bath salts.

When people like me or a whole host of others refer to "DmC deserving better than it got", it's almost exclusively the reaction it got on reveal, not the reception the game got in the wake of its release. Fan and non-fans alike can praise or trash the game to their hearts' content, because at that point, the game was already out.
That kind of fanbase, THAT kind of soulless, braindead, superficial, addle-brained, cult-like fanbase is not only what DmC doesn't deserve, but the actual Devil May Cry series doesn't deserve either. These whiny, bleating, vapid, entitled children were and still are an outright embarassment on the gaming communty, as well as to as storied and embedded in gaming culture as Devil May Cry. These gibbering anime-obsessed Japanophiles have left this franchise more violated and defiled than the Vatican's favorite chamber boy.

The franchise's biggest enemy, its worst asset isn't the incompetence of its producers or publisher...it's having quite possibly the WORST fanbase on the internet, and in gaming at large.
 

Director Bison

King of Games
Premium Elite
Premium
ATTENTION: UNBRIDLED AND SENSELESS RANT INCOMING

I've had this rant brewing for an extremely long time, but given the discussion, I feel it's relevant to finally commit to text. It's not about the franchise's progression, not about Capcom, not even about the individual games themselves...as I've serviced myself a sizable piece about the thing, or specifically the one game, responsible for the series' most serious maladies...No. This rant's mainly about what I think this article and many game journals online poorly articulate about the status of the Devil May Cry series, and the true nature of the conflict that arose in the reboot's presence....more importantly, the gestation and evolution of the series' most daunting and gluttonous predators: the Fanbase itself.

Now, I want to be perfectly transparent about something: the experiences I make mention of in this lengthy yarn is based on NOTHING I have encountered on these forums in particular. As unnecessarily-heated and excessive as some of the discussions here on the good ol' DMC.org can be, they are NOTHING compared to the toxic swath of rancid forum shrieking that can't even be remotely construed as "arguments" that took place on countless other more infested, and less civil forums on this protracted insanity test that is the Internet.

So I what exactly bothers me about the reboot, and its dissent among the fandom? What did the reboot "not deserve"? What exactly did the worst or the fandom do to degrade itself to the point where the entire gaming community took notice?


It's incredibly amusing that this point was made, because out of all the games in the series that have been released, DmC actually reminds me more of the original game than any other has even tried to be. Its premise, its variety in environments, its horror roots, its approach to enemy design and functionality, even its portrayal of Dante, who revived the original's standout trait of being fleshed out and varied enough to pass off as an actual character, instead of the tripe one-note mannequin that he'd end up being for two straight games.

I love the original DMC to death. It was the sole reason I bought my first PS2, and the only reason I clung to this series after the atrocities that were DMC2, DMC3, and the Animated Series. And I can safely say, without resignation, that no game in the franchise---not even 4---has come remotely as close as retreading the feeling of the original.

And the second you make that argument, people will instantly shriek: "BUT DMC3 & 4 ARE MORE ESSENTIAL AND TRUE TO THE TONE OF DEVIL MAY CRY THAN THE ORIGINALS TWO GAMES!" Thus diminishing their relevance as entries in the series, and dismissed entirely when discussing the series as a whole, presumably because they don't resemble their more anime-esque successors.

See, DMC fanboys (fanBOYS being the crucially-key term here) all have continued to shelter themselves under the umbrella of delusion that DMC, as a series, remained triumphantly consistent under one style and tone, one that the reboot promptly cartwheeled in and dislodged entirely...

And that's why I'm here to plead yet again on how that is absolutely and egregiously not the case.

Now, please excuse the long-winded and overthought analysis I'm going to make, but I feel I have to make it here, given how I've never understood the line of thinking rooted in this mentality. I think people really forget how drastically DMC shifted in tone and style when moving on from DMC1 & 2 to DMC3. The original style was more horror-esque, Gothic, with a lot of Western influences in the way the characters behaved and the arsenal they wielded---more akin to something like Hellsing. That kind of comparison may seem like a stretch, but think about it: they're both made with the sole purpose of emulating what their respective creators consider cool, with a large emphasis on visceral, pulp satisfaction, woven into over-the-top characters that emulate a style in pulp novels and action films from the late 80's and 90's. Both even have a larger emphasis on excessive firearms than use of the supernatural. Dante's arsenal has a larger lean towards customized guns and bulking firepower than Devil Arms in DMC1 & 2. In terms of style and tone, both of these are cut from the same cloth...and unlike later installments, had predominantly Western influences. This tone was present and vibrant in both of the Kamiya-approved DMC novels as well. Dante himself still acts more detective-like in these novels, and there's a larger emphasis on making him more like a Western action hero than a bishonen protagonist---and this was present in the stylization of other character in the novels as well.

But when DMC3 sauntered in, reeking of outdated anime cliches and nonsensical action set-dressing, the tone of the entire series changed radically. There was a larger emphasis on fight scenes and visceral appeal than atmosphere or ambiance. Enemies and weapons became less grounded in mythological and occult styles, and more goofy and Japanese-ridden. The very notion of Dante sporting a K-Pop haircut, strumming on a demonic guitar whilst jamming talking in diabetes-inducing "cool lingo" like some autistic skater kid from the 90's clashed wildly with the kind of laid-back, professional air that Dante had retained in both the first two games and the original novels. The way Dante fought, the way the cutscenes played out...even the visual inspiration for the weapons, bosses, and locales seemed painfully uninspired compared to the older games. Whereas DMC1 focused on explicitly Gothic environments and enemy types (Armored lizard warriors, Venetian puppets, grotesque insects, and spectral reapers), and DMC2 had a balanced divide between urban and ancient enemy types and locales (infected choppers and tanks, vs. Baphomet-looking goat men and scaly gargoyles) , DMC3 introduced this random, garbled mess of an art style for its weapon and enemy assets, with a larger emphasis on making estranging and exaggerated designs. The other games felt committed to satisfying one kind of essence to how the game looked and felt, whereas later games just felt like the creators just jumbled together whatever they thought "looked and felt cool", versus making sense for the environment (flying enemies with giant buzzsaws for shields, eyeballs that shoot lasers, enemies lugging around giant explosives or coffins)...not entirely unlike, ironically enough, the kind of senseless, bubbly, nonsenical, anime-ish enemy types infesting the Godawful latter-day Final Fantasy games...which is fairly-appropriate to associate with latter-day Dante himself, whose strumming of a lightning guitar and wielding of a "nunchuck-motorcycle" aren't entirely dissimilar to Snow Viliers' Shiva Cycle or Sazh's Brynhildr Dune Buggy. This really isn't about how the games play, or how the hack-n'-slash mechanics of the series developed over time...
(if anything, the later games didn't move away enough from the older games...especially given how DMC3 was still using the first game's clunky controls and cameras as late as 2005, well past the time its competitors knew better) it's more to do with the tonal shift of the series as a whole. And to be perfectly honest---despite what facetious and staunchly-clinging fans may claim in their biased fits of baseless elitism---that shift happened WELL before DmC ever entered the picture.

What I'm basically getting at here is that this series has NEVER been consistant in tone or style, even within the boundaries of its original series. It crossed a bridge into another style of "cool" when the games transitioned from 2 to 3. You know this, I know this....every observant fan with a head on their shoulders and who's played the games for a long time know this.

"But Wolf!" I hear you cry; "No one's talking about DmC's stylistic or tonal contradictions to the original series...the debate, the heart of the discussion, has always been about the GAMEPLAY!"

Really? Because I remember standing in the wake of the fire and brimstone of fan-broiled rage following DmC's initial debut back in 2010 and not a single person in the Devil May Cry fanbase was making mention about the gameplay.

Was the rage over his hair? Nope. It was the hair, the look of Dante's clothes, his physique, the style of art and aesthetic choices, and everything else.

I saw all manner of petty complaints...and by petty, I mean really petty. Things like his hair color and initial cigarette use were just the beginning: I can sit hear and quote for hours about how many comparisons people were making, calling the New Dante everything from a "Edward Cullen wannabe" to a "Emo cutter on crack" to a "Westified version of a perfectly-Japanese character". And they got even pettier, with complaints like
"Rebellion isn't big enough, and looks underdesigned", "or Ebony and Ivory look exaggerated and overdesigned", or "Dante's not muscular enough", or "Dante looks too beat up and bruised---when everyone KNOWS he's too uber-OP to take damage", or "he's not supposed to smoke, he's only suppose to eat strawberry sundaes and pizza" (even though the original Dante drinks, smokes and swears excessively in both of the Kamiya-based novels).The chest-slapping, shortbus-riding, ramen-swilling Naruto Headband-bedect seminal idiots occupying the cancerous bowels of whatever dwindiling ruins making up the Devil's Lair forums were too busy decrying the reboot on the basis of such mundane reasons, that they were unwittingly displaying the kind of shallow, petty whining that would make the Sonic Fanbase look like civil human beings...all because of aesthetic and stylistic changes to a franchise that was never stylistically consistent with its tone or characters to begin with. Not gameplay. Not mechanics. Not even legitimate grievances like the writing, the console port, or the casualized mechanics.

Now, keep in mind: this was two good years after DMC4...by this time, I had dislodged myself from the fanbase years prior. My interest in the series had long been drained, and I was not even remotely interested in playing a tried-true sequel OR a reboot. And if I hadn't indulged myself in revisiting the series through both the reboot and the HD Collection in recent years, you can bet that I would've never come back. Because in the heat of this stupid controversy, I never felt the cringe-inducing, wallowing urge to distance myself from the DMC fandom than I did then. People were literally raging over this game, before a second of gameplay had even been shown....not because it was bad (and no one had anyway of truly knowing for a fact that it was, unless they had telepathic means to access the game three years before its release)....no, because it was different.

This isn't the first time they've done this, either: These are the same people ostracized Nero mere seconds after he was revealed, disregarding any and all gameplay additions he could've brought as a new character, on the sole grounds that "he wasn't Dante", and therefore was deemed unacceptable before the game was even pressed to the disc. They anally ravaged Reuben Langdon when he was cast as the DMC3 Dante's voice, on the grounds that he wasn't Drew Coombs. Hell---the DMC Fanbase are the same livid, leering ingrates that actually committed themselves to a widespread petition to keep DMC4 PlayStation 3 exclusive to preserve its Sony exclusivity, because Capcom had the gall to attempt to subvert the series into the dangerous convenience of multi-platform inclusivity.

This
is the DMC Fanbase, people. The simpering, puckered elitists so rigid and entitled, that they will assume frontline war positions at the vaguest mirage of change. This seething fanatical mentality has been apart of the series LONG before Keiji Inafune even breathed the proposition of a Western reboot into the greedy ears of Capcom's shareholders...before Ninja Theory was single-handedly credited as advocating "unnacceptablr and inconsistent changes" to a series as consistent and impervious to change as a ****ing chameleon on bath salts.

When people like me or a whole host of others refer to "DmC deserving better than it got", it's almost exclusively the reaction it got on reveal, not the reception the game got in the wake of its release. Fan and non-fans alike can praise or trash the game to their hearts' content, because at that point, the game was already out.
That kind of fanbase, THAT kind of soulless, braindead, superficial, addle-brained, cult-like fanbase is not only what DmC doesn't deserve, but the actual Devil May Cry series doesn't deserve either. These whiny, bleating, vapid, entitled children were and still are an outright embarassment on the gaming communty, as well as to as storied and embedded in gaming culture as Devil May Cry. These gibbering anime-obsessed Japanophiles have left this franchise more violated and defiled than the Vatican's favorite chamber boy.

The franchise's biggest enemy, its worst asset isn't the incompetence of its producers or publisher...it's having quite possibly the WORST fanbase on the internet, and in gaming at large.
this really frustrates me because i know your right

all of those articles talking about the fans reaction to Dante's hair were true
those fans really were awful
they made ludicrous judgments
they did send death threats before any gameplay was even shown

AND I WAS THERE FOR NONE OF IT!

i had no idea those things were going on i was barley active on the internet until 2 years ago

when i saw the articles about the fans reaction to Dante's hair i thought it was a load of bull

i never imagined people would complain about that aspect because it was obvious from the very first TGS trailer that Dante's hair was going to turn white at the end of the game

but they were complaining about that crap

my criticisms of DmC are never going to matter
because DmC is just going to be remembered as that game people didn't like because of the hair

DmC infuriates me for many reasons

BUT i'm constantly defending and recommending this game that i hate because i know it's not bad and people who don't share my tastes will enjoy it

it shows that the eco chamber of a fanbase can just breed ignorance and stupidity and that just makes things worse for everybody
 
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Innsmouth

Sleeping DMC Fan
Supporter 2014
@Innsmouth: I mostly agree with what you just said about how both sides are at fault. However, correct me if I'm wrong but isn't one of the main gripes for people that enjoy DmC the fact that others say it "isn't Devil May Cry"? Yeah there are those that like it, and those that don't - that's absolutely fine, no issue. I just think the problem is people dismissing it as a Devil May Cry game just because of personal taste.
Put it bluntly: so what? I mean why this is even somebody's business what somebody thinks or don't about the game?

Why I for example should care if somebody acting like fanboys around DmC and consider it best action game in the world? Its their call and I think its their opinion. I don't agree with it, but as long it doesn't boils to deranged need of some people to go into every single original DMC topic and put their poison filled comments every single one of them, just for sake to show how DmC is superior. If people think DmC is best action game, fine, its their reception and their call. Its pointless to convince somebody out of their opinion. Instead they can simply enjoy game.

But after three years, flipping out because somebody expressed dislike for DmC is simply childish. Just like opinion that DmC is just as great if not greater than older games, opinion that it doesn't really DMC game per see is subjective and pretty much nobody's business but those who express it. IF somebody sees this as bright spot in franchise, no debate, let them do it.

But recepting each of comments that put DmC under question with almost sociopathic rage, reducing to generalising, name-calling, childish rants etc, sorry, those people either have to many or to little problems in their lives if they spent hours upon hours raging about something that did or didn't happened 3 years ago, instead of calmly enjoy game, discussing gameplay, story and whatsoever or simply moving on to something new.
 

TWOxACROSS

Hot-blooded God of Guns
Premium
Sazh's Brynhildr Dune Buggy

Uhm, excuse me - it's a hot rod.

Thank you, I'll be here all week. Tip your waitresses.

G6RHaVb.gif
 

Gel

When the going gets tough, the tough get going
Premium
Er..., this is just an apart ( and maybe off topic) but...
(even though the original Dante drinks, smokes and swears excessively in both of the Kamiya-based novels).
...Dante NEVER smoked in any media, it was his friend Grue who was a avid smoker.Dante makes fun of his smoking habits, while Grue scolds Dante about his drinking habits. ( Even today Kamiya says he never wanted Dante to smoke. He didn't like and always find it a cheap method to give an idea of cool to a character) He swore but not too much but yes, he always drink like a sponge. Other myth was Dante had black hair before or that he dyed his hair, this is not too either. Novels give emphasis on how shiny and glorious is his silver colored hair, so that is just a myth.

Now , please go on, ladies and gentlemen!
 

TWOxACROSS

Hot-blooded God of Guns
Premium
Was there an ashtray among all his liquor bottles in DMC1? I might just be imagining it, since it would very obviously fit right in, given the atmosphere of his office :p I s'pose probably not since Kamiya didn't want him to, and probably would have had references to smoking taken out.

Granted, there is something else to consider - a character smoking isn't necessarily always just some way to try and make someone look cooler. While Dante never smoked in DmC (only the announcement), I messed around with the "why" of it all in a piece, where it's due to stress. Lots of people take up that terrible habit because of outside forces, least of all to "look cool." That being said, there's some fairly "cool" things that can be done with a cigarette.

b6duF.gif


So to say, it works better as a prop than as an aesthetic article of a character.
 

Gel

When the going gets tough, the tough get going
Premium
Was there an ashtray among all his liquor bottles in DMC1? I might just be imagining it, since it would very obviously fit right in, given the atmosphere of his office
Yeah, I'm imagining it as much as you and Dante always lived like a pig.
I s'pose probably not since Kamiya didn't want him to, and probably would have had references to smoking taken out.
Hmm, funny is that smoking isn't cool but being a functional drunk is...In that time Kamiya didn't smoke but drank a lot, so if Dante was what Kamiya wanted to be in fantasy world, it's natural they share some habits.
 

Demi-fiend

Metempsychosis
Supporter 2014
Hmm, funny is that smoking isn't cool but being a functional drunk is...In that time Kamiya didn't smoke but drank a lot, so if Dante was what Kamiya wanted to be in fantasy world, it's natural they share some habits.
So, a western Gary Stu, basically.
 

Gel

When the going gets tough, the tough get going
Premium
So, a western Gary Stu, basically.
In novels, Dante goes as far making Vergil totally drunk ( until he passes out, since Vergil is not very fond of alcohol ) and later Vergil pays alcohol to all his mates ( and he does it a lot of times).
So, it's up to you to decide which is cooler (or at least, less prejudicial) smoking or alcohol.
 

Triggerpigking

Well-known Member
Sorry in advance for the long post.

Eh, I don't think dmc3 was as big of a departure as Wolf is making out, i should say I can't comment on 2 as I only played it for about 30 mins before disliking it.(maybe I should give it another shot sometime).

3 showed us a more younger and stubborn dante so his more flashy, I suppose?. personality made more sense. The enemy and area design were certainly less scary then 1(which was of course built as a survival horror game) but i'd still argue it mostly retained it's gothic feeling, I always loved the city design in dmc3 and the tv series, it had a gothic vibe to it while still making it feel modern and the temenigru was a great gothic location(plus I liked all the mentions of the 9 circles of hell).

Plus from a purely buisness perspective, changing up dmc3 after 2 made sense due to the reception of 2, dmc4 while flawed sold amazingly and an argument could be made that was at the height of it's popularity(if not then, then probbly when 3 came out), another thing here is that dmc3 came out 2 years after 2, not 5, now this is important imo, the longer a series stays dead the more a big fanbase wants to see the mainline series continue, the fact that they waited this long and then our first look at a new dmc game is entirely different from the last 2 which unlike 2 was mostly well received was bound to **** people off.


Now I will agree that dmc4's area design and storytelling went full japanese(in fact it's very reminiscent of bayonetta), as I said what mainly kept that game together for me is the combat system and unlike DmC, it's combat system was a logical extension of 3, just as 3 was a good continuation from 1, the music as well was also similair to the previous games in the series, mixing rock with orchestral scores, so while they experimented with the area design i'd argue it still came off as a dmc game and plotwise even had direct ties to the previous game.

I definetily prefer both dmc3, and 4 dante to his original appearence but his change of character from 1-4-2(if 2 even still counts), is a bit baffling though I don't think it's entirely out of the realm of possibility, plus some of dante's scenes from 1 are...questionable, there's a reason that games story is'nt looked on too fondly XD, 4 has a pretty meh story as well but nothing like 1's cringeyness.

Dante in 4 seemed so powerful that the bosses were just a stroll in the park, he really had no need to take them seriously because they posed no threat to him, (he also seemed a bit more calmer then in dmc3,) Nero was'nt even really needed xD, in 3 he was certainly a lot more vulnerable but he was overly cocky(but like dmc1 dante he was somewhat serious when he needed to be such as the final vergil fights).


DmC dante, I don't think he's like the original, his one liners are'nt as witty and they needed a much better writer, but I did like the idea of turning this drugged up bastard into a hero somewhat, he's a lot more douchey then dante ever was, the humour in that game is also very different.
DMC1 Dante was calm, DmC dante not so much he seemed very easily offended, I will say that like original dante, he is based on what the modern idea of "cool" is, I feel the other dante's had better character though but perhaps that's due to us having 4 games to get to know his character and development over the 1 for DmC(which is why I said i'd love to see an older version of this dante).

DmC was defineitly not gothic either imo, it defineitly had more horror based designs but it was nothing like dmc1's designs or level design, this is actually one of the main reasons alongside the music I feel it should be counted seperately, the action horror elements were more grimey, gross and in your face then dmc1's atmospheric castle or the temenigru from 3, plus there's of course that it took it's horror from other sources such as they live, plus as said before the music while metal is entirely different and unlike all the previous games the orchestral and ambient stuff is pretty much absent, which is a big thing for me as the music has always been a big part of my enjoyment of the series(DmC's music is cool though).

You are correct about the Nero backlash though, i'd actually argue DmC dante reminds me more of nero if he'd been born in sin city then Dante, they share a few personality traits.

I think the big difference for me with 4 and DmC is that while both changed some things one did so to the very extreme, there are still aspects of dmc4 that are tied to the series roots. DmC changes almost everything, including the core gameplay.

Also Devil may cry IS FAR FAAAAAAAAAAAAAR from the worst fanbase on the net, you've clearly never seen the steven universe or god help you to ever become a part of the dr who fanbase(I am), a series built entirely on change, or is anyone here a fan of sonic the hedgehog? XD.
You should'nt use them kind of fans as the majority example,usually they are very vocal fans who don't know how to do actual criticism, the current showrunner for doctor who if you heard the bile about him online on a constant basis, you'd think he eats kittens, started the third reich and killed jesus, yet the series is still going strong, so clearly these vocal fans are'nt the majority.
Likewise DmC did sell decently despite the backlash, I think it'd of been a lot more if it was'nt under the dmc name but it sold well regardless of it's haters.
Fanbases are'nt bad, it's just the bigger they get the more assholes get in and ruin everyones fun XD.
 

V's patron

be loyal to what matters
So we have covered that fans could have handled their reactions better and Capcom could have made better decisions with the franchise, how exactly could NT have been better?
 

TWOxACROSS

Hot-blooded God of Guns
Premium
Hmm, funny is that smoking isn't cool but being a functional drunk is...In that time Kamiya didn't smoke but drank a lot, so if Dante was what Kamiya wanted to be in fantasy world, it's natural they share some habits.

Drinking is absurdly socially accepted in Japan, to the point where you are basically required to go out drinking with your coworkers after a hard day. The peer pressure is strong and to not drink makes you an outcast.
 
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