What does NT think when they look at us completing the game?

[Romy]

The question. I mean, in 2 months, we were able to manipulate the game to our desires, much to like previous DMC was, considering the game engine. I still wonder to this day why NT couldn't incorporate some things in the game. If we broke it, they could've added the features even more easily. Things like turbo mode, all weapons working on every enemy, Vergil in BP, I mean, for them that wouldn't be so hard to do. Were they just lazy or not interested? Or were they saving those things for the sequel (even though that wouldn't make any sense)? Discuss.

 

[IncarnatedDemon]

Capcom, lazy , DmC =their game, greedy

Nt =only developers.

They didnt bother giving VD real cutscenes.

 

[Demi-fiend]

Want me to discuss? Very well, I'll discuss.

If you would like to think that NT was lazy because of these things, then I won't hold it against you. I don't know what happened in the actual development rooms, so I won't say that they were or weren't lazy.

However, this brings up a new issue.

If we (well, if you and others like you) can fix it -- then fix it. And show NT what you're capable of.

In NT's defense however, Vergil's Downfall had no color-coded enemies, only one dodge button (the other "dodge" function was changed to be an offensive tactic), and was considered more difficult than the main campaign. I think this is a sign of NT actually doing something about it.

I personally would love to see a lock-on mod and Vergil within the main campaign. We already saw him fight Mundus, so this can't be too hard, can it?

If Vergil and a lock-on function can be put in the main game, then I think that would be one of the greatest and final steps in actually fixing the issues at hand.

 

[VineBigBoss]

The question. I mean, in 2 months, we were able to manipulate the game to our desires, much to like previous DMC was, considering the game engine.
I still wonder to this day why NT couldn't incorporate some things in the game.
If we broke it, they could've added the features even more easily. Things like turbo mode, all weapons working on every enemy, Vergil in BP, I mean, for them that wouldn't be so hard to do. Were they just lazy or not interested? Or were they saving those things for the sequel (even though that wouldn't make any sense)? Discuss.

I think that it's most Capcom fault and lack of vision than NT's, NT is just a hired studio who make the game. We can blame them for glitches, not polishing the game so well, some design choices but no for the overall package. In the end of day it was Capcom's decisions who made the game what it is, but answering your questions:

I still wonder to this day why NT couldn't incorporate some things in the game.

Mainly because it was not Capcom's desire, the game was designed aiming another audience, just looking to the engine of choice and the game being developed to run at 30 FPS tells us a lot of things of how the mechanics would work out. Even if you make the game run at 60 FPS, it still was conceived and designed for running at 30 FPS, all the features were implemented along these foundations and design choices, you know?

Things like turbo mode, all weapons working on every enemy, Vergil in BP, I mean, for them that wouldn't be so hard to do.

A turbo mode would be good, but still has not much meaning for the game itself because it's more slow-paced (to welcome new players, i think) than previous DMC entries. It could still be enjoyable but would be just a "waste of time" by Capcom's and NT's point of view and purpose with DmC, Vergil in BP i think that was just lazyness from NT or greed from Capcom, i still think they will implement Vergil in BP officialy (and i think it has to be free, at least), but they need to rework the BP itself because Vergil can't tackle some monsters (it would be worse than fighting Nero's bosses with Dante). But if they had the game designed well in the first place, most of this would be possible, was just a little mistake that culminated on bigger things in the end.

Basicaly, the modding community for DmC see some potential in the game itself and try to bring back some lost features from old DMC entries to see if it works well with DmC. I have respect for people who actually work to upgrade a game they like, but i would not do this, i find it pointless because how the game was build and conceived do not match well some features and elements from previous entires. But props for the modding community who is making a good work into making the DmC experience better, i'll tell to my friend about all the mods and ask for him to download them for us to test some things.

The impression all this things leaves is that they're not quite certain with what to do with the game and the franchise, i think that relation of partnership from Capcom and NT suffocated NT's creativity and not achieved the same level of quality (gameplay-wise) of Capcom itself. They've reached a middle ground between this two things and the result of it is DmC.

 

[Romy]

If we (well, if you and others like you) can fix it -- then fix it. And show NT what you're capable of.

The main problem is that it's not players' job to do it. Also, no matter how well a modder mods the game, it can never be as perfect as it would be done by developer.

 

[Romy]

Mainly because it was not Capcom's desire, the game was designed aiming another audience, just looking to the engine of choice and the game being developed to run at 30 FPS tells us a lot of things of how the mechanics would work out. Even if you make the game run at 60 FPS, it still was conceived and designed for running at 30 FPS, all the features were implemented along these foundations and design choices, you know?




A turbo mode would be good, but still has not much meaning for the game itself because it's more slow-paced (to welcome new players, i think) than previous DMC entries. It could still be enjoyable but would be just a "waste of time" by Capcom's and NT's point of view and purpose with DmC, Vergil in BP i think that was just lazyness from NT or greed from Capcom, i still think they will implement Vergil in BP officialy (and i think it has to be free, at least), but they need to rework the BP itself because Vergil can't tackle some monsters (it would be worse than fighting Nero's bosses with Dante). But if they had the game designed well in the first place, most of this would be possible, was just a little mistake that culminated on bigger things in the end.

Basicaly, the modding community for DmC see some potential in the game itself and try to bring back some lost features from old DMC entries to see if it works well with DmC. I have respect for people who actually work to upgrade a game they like, but i would not do this, i find it pointless because how the game was build and conceived do not match well some features and elements from previous entires. But props for the modding community who is making a good work into making the DmC experience better, i'll tell to my friend about all the mods and ask for him to download them for us to test some things.

The impression all this things leaves is that they're not quite certain with what to do with the game and the franchise, i think that relation of partnership from Capcom and NT suffocated NT's creativity and not achieved the same level of quality (gameplay-wise) of Capcom itself. They've reached a middle ground between this two things and the result of it is DmC.

The game runs at 60 fps on pc and there's no problem there.

A turbo mode is a must for any pro player because a 100% speed simply become too ordinary and boring at some point. My problem is that the engine could've stayed the same as previous DMCs, as opposed to story. Putting the same engine in the game wouldn't hurt the changing of story at all. I am satisfied with the game and love it, but it's simply imperfect and you can clearly see that it's rushed and wasn't put enough effort in to make the game more optionable.

 

[VineBigBoss]

The game runs at 60 fps on pc and there's no problem there.

A turbo mode is a must for any pro player because a 100% speed simply become too ordinary and boring at some point. My problem is that the engine could've stayed the same as previous DMCs, as opposed to story. Putting the same engine in the game wouldn't hurt the changing of story at all. I am satisfied with the game and love it, but it's simply imperfect and you can clearly see that it's rushed and wasn't put enough effort in to make the game more optionable.

That's what i said. It doesn't make difference in the core of the game if it can run at 60 FPS, he was designed to run at 30 FPS, the game was thinked to work at 30 FPS. This will not change running it at 60 fps, and that is why some features would not make such difference, like the turbo mode itself. You have a fast game but without detailed animations to have some visual clues of what is happening it becames pointless. I agree with you in that point, as i've said in my last post:

The impression all this things leaves is that they're not quite certain with what to do with the game and the franchise, i think that relation of partnership between Capcom and NT suffocated NT's creativity and not achieved the same level of quality (gameplay-wise) of Capcom itself. They've reached a middle ground between this two things and the result of it is DmC.

They've not used all their potential in that game, ideas were being disposed for Capcom's desires and NT's lazyness and inexperience made the game be flawled in many points. Again, Capcom being the owner of DMC rights should have pushed NT more to work on the game itself and given then more room to use their creativity, which is the strong point of this company.

 

[MultiBro]

About using the same engine from the previous DMC to DmC, I remember Capcom offering NT to work on Mt Framework Engine and teach them how to use it. NT said no.

Imagine if they only said yes...

 

[TWOxACROSS]

I still don't understand this idea that because things weren't implemented, it was because they were lazy or didn't know how.

They had a specific development direction they were taking the game. There not being a Turbo mode in the game is no different than how there's no lock-on - it's just how they made the game. Doesn't matter how easy it is to implement, it just wasn't a priority, or something they ever wanted to focus on. Does it make the lack of a Turbo Mode okay? I dunno, no other regularly released DMC had one, it was always an afterthought.

Modders didn't "finish" the game, they added on to it. The game was finished when it shipped, it just wasn't "finished" in a way some people wanted it to be :/

 

[TWOxACROSS]

About using the same engine from the previous DMC to DmC, I remember Capcom offering NT to work on Mt Framework Engine and teach them how to use it. NT said no.

Imagine if they only said yes...

They were already strapped for time, because of Capcom's constraints, and MT Framework is a completely new engine, so they couldn't just learn it in no time at all. Isn't MT Framework also in Japanese since it's an in-house engine...?

 

[VineBigBoss]

About using the same engine from the previous DMC to DmC, I remember Capcom offering NT to work on Mt Framework Engine and teach them how to use it. NT said no.

Imagine if they only said yes...

There's even a parody image of that event on the internet:

I think that NT felt more confident and comfortable with UE3, but MT Framework is clearly superior for fast-paced, fighting games and hack'n'slash games.

 

[IncarnatedDemon]

Whos to decide a game is unfinished. The company (who included ondisc dlc for a game) or the consumer who knows what is a must in what the company said the game wud be "one of best dmc game".

Ill go with the consumer.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

The consumer is just as greedy in what they want a lot of the time, at least these days.

"On-disc" DLC also doesn't mean a game is unfinished...that actually means its...more finished, since there's extra content on the disc. Not liking the practices of a company is not indicative of them selling an "unfinished" game. And "Best DMC game" is highly subjective, and varies between person to person.

 

[VineBigBoss]

The consumer is just as greedy in what they want a lot of the time, at least these days.

"On-disc" DLC also doesn't mean a game is unfinished...that actually means its...more finished, since there's extra content on the disc. Not liking the practices of a company is not indicative of them selling an "unfinished" game. And "Best DMC game" is highly subjective, and varies between person to person.

"Best" don't varies, we define the "best" things ou of their performance and practical applications, what people like most varies. If a "best" installment of a series would be judged by human preference on it, high sellings games would be the best games out there. Or even Metacritic scores could be used to say what's the best game on the market today. It's more true to hack'n'slash games, as the mechanics are straight objective to analyse and have a major role to define if the game is well made or poor made in his design and execution.

Just wanted to point it out, i agree with your other statements.

 

[IncarnatedDemon]

So Romy is greedy too? Is that how it works...generalize all consumers are greedy? Or do u have evidence that alotDMC consumers are greedy?

 

[ChaserTech]

The main problem is that it's not players' job to do it.

This.
So much of this.

Modders should not have to mod a game in order to make it more enjoyable.

Yes, mods are fun and all, but when you have to soft mod a video game/console in order to add specific features that should/could have been added in the first place with minimal effort. (e.g. No replay time limit in Super Smash Brothers Brawl, Turbo Mode in DmC, Enable DVD playback for the Wii) then I kinda question the developers motive for not adding it in initially.

Especially if it's an obvious change that the players would want.

I'm looking at you UMVC3 with your lack of being able to save replays from matches.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

"Best" don't varies, we define the "best" things ou of their performance and practical applications, what people like most varies. If a "best" installment of a series would be judged by human preference on it, high sellings games would be the best games out there. Or even Metacritic scores could be used to say what's the best game on the market today. It's more true to hack'n'slash games, as the mechanics are straight objective to analyse and have a major role to define if the game is well made or poor made in his design and execution.

Just wanted to point it out, i agree with your other statements.

Bleh, so often "da bess" and "my favorite" overlap :/

I still think it's sorta subjective, because there's been a few games that have been declared as being the best in their series, and I haven't agreed with it Because it does become based on preference. Some games are touted as being the best because of certain mechanics or design choices, and not everyone agrees with how great those mechanics or designs are, which invariably knocks it down from its "Best" status in their eyes.

I guess I feel that on a certain level, anything that involves human opinion is subjective

So Romy is greedy too? Is that how it works...generalize all consumers are greedy? Or do u have evidence that alotDMC consumers are greedy?

Regarding your post, yes, because consumers thinking they know more about the project than the people who are making it is just plain wrong. We don't own the project, we own the end result. Fans might help a franchise grow, but they still don't own any part of it, and it's greedy and childish to think otherwise.

The amount of vitriol that went around because of DmC shows a lot of this behavior among the DMC consumers, because they thought they knew everything about the game, even before its release, where they rightfully could not say how it would all turn out :/

People might not like what was or wasn't done, but no one knows more about the direction of the development of a project more than the people who are actually working on it.

 

[Demi-fiend]

Whos to decide a game is unfinished. The company (who included ondisc dlc for a game) or the consumer who knows what is a must in what the company said the game wud be "one of best dmc game".

Ill go with the consumer.

No, you'll just go with the consumers who agree with your opinion.

 

[Sunaka Marién]

Ah, I guess everything has already been said, but I'll just throw in my two cents anyway
As for no Vergil BP, I guess it was for money issues, the game undersold their expectations so Capcom probably were like "Why stuffing even MORE money into it?".
Turbo mode, well, I don't even think NT had that much to do with the PC port, since some other studio made it, if I remember correctly (it says something about "Gaming Evolved" on the cover, so I think they were the ones who did it..?). Not too sure why they didn't make one, though.
And color coded enemies, well, bad design choice

 

[OppressedWriter]

I normally agree with you Romy, but this kind of reasoning always baffles me. I've gotten plenty of enjoyment out of the game as it was designed. Modding is just a PC thing; I mean Skyrim has a million mods that make it better doesn't mean the original game or developer are worse for it. Secondly, most modders including me aren't doing any sort of rocket science, its just manipulating existing functions and values already in the game. The game is the way it is because that's how NT tested and designed it at the time of release. I'm happy that on PC we have been able to unlock some of the other functions, such as turbo mode, and the colored weapons damage enemies, but the reason I think turbo was removed is that it actually doesn't work that well with the animations. I agree it could have been a reward to unlock once you beat son of Sparda or one of the other difficulty modes. I also think official mod support like implementation in the steam workshop would be much appreciated.

On a side note, as for the unreal conversation that parody is pretty funny, but in all honestly that was the right decision, MT framework is a proprietary engine, so for an independent developer spending time learning it wouldn't be the smartest thing. I mean unless capcom hires them over and over all that knowledge they'd learn would go to waste.