Vergil's True Mission?

[TWOxACROSS]

Please...please...don't start with the reaching. The whale demon squirted blood from it's eyes. Demons can be killing each other in the streets for all we know.

How the hell is that reaching?! Gallons of blood splattered around Love Planet in what looks like a murder scene don't look like people were murdered there?

None of the lesser demons bleed red liquid, other than Bloodgoyles and Abyss. Everything else bleeds sand.

And this is the f#cking problem, Innsmouth patronized be my saying that sometimes things aren't spelled out easily for people, which is extremely true. The difference is that in something like Love Planet, we have EVIDENCE of humans being murdered and dragged around on the floor. It's not spelled out, but it's right f#cking there. Half the stuff people are theorizing contradicts things that are seen in the game, or aren't anywhere in the franchise to extrapolate from to begin with.

Yup yup.

What, so you acknowledge that Vergil has control over the demons...?

Yep and a demon hunter.

We're not talking about a Lady, we're talking about the demons that Vergil had to fight. Out of all the demons in the entire tower, the only ones that stood in his way were the Abyss, which are not encountered in the tower, but the underworld. Then we explicitly see the lesser demons going along with Vergil's plans - attempting to kill Dante in his office so they can get his amulet, and the Vanguard that gets trounced and then pleads with his master Vergil for pardon on his failure.

When did he let them do whatever? The whale demon didn't go anywhere but around the tower. The other demons just ambushed Dante and Lady.

If I remember correctly, Leviathan was a guardian of the tower, so of course it hung around the tower. Dante fights demons outside of Temen-ni-gru in the first few missions, and lo and behold we come across the grizzly scene of murders in Love Planet, where we find a bunch of demons. Gee, I wonder who got murdered and who did all that murdering.

You remember in DMC 2 the village with the old lady and everyone being in hiding right? There was no one on the street when Dante was driving and in DMC 1 it took place on a remote island.

Your point? You're sort of agreeing with me right now. You can also investigate some of the debris on your way to Temen-ni-gru and Dante says that he hopes people manage to make it out okay. They use a narrative excuse of murdered and hiding humans to cover up for not wanting to put the time and energy into showing off wholly incidental characters.

Even DMC4 on more powerful systems didn't bother with populating the game world with NPCs outside of cutscenes.

Actually, Sparda sealed his power within the demonworld. The only people who could open it would be Dante or Vergil. You see where I'm going with this? He didn't bury the keys, he didn't hide them, he allowed them to be handed to his own sons.

So...? That doesn't change the fact that Sparda did devote his life after a leaving Mundus' army with protecting humanity, as evidenced by DMC2 and DMC4.

It's also entirely possible that the keys needed to be outside of the underworld, lest some demon schmucks just open it right back up again. Entrusting the keys to his sons (two powerful half-demons), with a convoluted unlocking ceremony, would have ensured that the underworld wouldn't be opened so easily. Unless...of course...one of the keyholders turned out to be a giant douchenozzle who wants that power for himself...

Vergil's True Mission could've been to defeat Mundus and gain control over the demonworld the most powerful world in the DMC universe. He can have Dante close the gate behind him and rule over the humanworld (because Dante's weak like that). In the story, it's exactly what he let happen. Though, he failed on his end.

Sure, it could have been, but we don't know. It's all theory, but then why would Vergil want this? There's no concrete evidence to support that being his reason, just as there isn't that Vergil wanted to become supreme ruler of the planet and ban everyone from wearing pants.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

You're not getting rid of my beliefs because they are not my beliefs, they are sh!t the game tells us! Your list of things I'm arguing are all headcanon, things people want to believe are true but sometimes contradict what we can plainly see in the game.

You said that we can plainly see Vergil killing humans, Vergil not caring about humans, Vergil being one dimensional. Yet, I've proven all that to be headcanon.

No, you f#cking didn't :/ I never said "plainly see Vergil killing humans", but I did say that he doesn't care about them and that he's one-f#cking-dimensional, because ALL THAT IS SHOWN IN THE F#CKING GAME. The sh!t I've been saying is RIGHT. F#CKING. THERE.

Logic backed up by reason aren't headcanon. Everything I talked about is a conclusion drawn logically by what we are shown in the game. No broad interpretations, just the facts, ma'am, and things directly inferred by them.

Vergil doesn't care about humans because if he did, there would have been lines of dialogue trying to point that out, things to alleviate the intentions shown by his actions that put humanity at risk. Vergil is one-dimensional because the game itself never gives him any other motivation besides "f#ck everyone, get power", all he ever talks about is power and how absolutely t!ts it is, and he killed damn near everything that stood in his path but the player. Maybe in hopes his brother would come on over to his side after seeing how absolute t!ts power is, but even then, that's conjecture.

90% of what people believe Vergil to be is all theory and headcanon. He's one-dimensional because there is so very little going on with his character that the entirety of the franchise tells us! They give us more questions about him than answers, and questions are not character depth, they're gaping spaces in what the character could be that require filling - by answers. Not headcanon, but actual, legitimate answers that we have yet to receive.

Needlessly? He just got Beowulf! He seems to be warming up with them. Sliding the body aside would cause environmental complications or could cause a problem with the tower. We don't know. But we kinda know Vergil enough to know that there is A REASON he did it.

Yeah, the reason is he got a new weapon, wanted to test it out, and beat the sh!t out of a lifeless corpse because he has no respect for anyone, even in death! (Aside from Sparda...maybe?) Remember that's what this part of the discussion was about, the fact that despite the claim of honor, he desecrated a foe's body after having killed them while they were completely defenseless. No respect for his opponent, and he didn't even bother ensuring that they're fight would be even, as so many people have kept saying he does.

 

[The Final Offer]

How the hell is that reaching?! Gallons of blood splattered around Love Planet in what looks like a murder scene don't look like people were murdered there?

None of the lesser demons bleed red liquid, other than Bloodgoyles and Abyss. Everything else bleeds sand.

And this is the f#cking problem, Innsmouth patronized be my saying that sometimes things aren't spelled out easily for people, which is extremely true. The difference is that in something like Love Planet, we have EVIDENCE of humans being murdered and dragged around on the floor. It's not spelled out, but it's right f#cking there. Half the stuff people are theorizing contradicts things that are seen in the game, or aren't anywhere in the franchise to extrapolate from to begin with.

Wait...hold on...........OK

My bad, I was yawning. You're saying that there's evidence that there is in fact human blood on the ground? So, even if it were, how do you know if those were the same demons that Vergil was controlling? How do you know it wasn't the demons that attacked him? Also, Dante and Vergil bleed red.

What, so you acknowledge that Vergil has control over the demons...?

Some demons recognize his strength, yes. Others are of Mundus's work, I think.

We're not talking about a Lady, we're talking about the demons that Vergil had to fight. Out of all the demons in the entire tower, the only ones that stood in his way were the Abyss, which are not encountered in the tower, but the underworld. Then we explicitly see the lesser demons going along with Vergil's plans - attempting to kill Dante in his office so they can get his amulet, and the Vanguard that gets trounced and then pleads with his master Vergil for pardon on his failure.

I believe Vergil was doing several things with that Vanguard. Testing Dante's strength, making sure Dante stays focused on the task at hand, but of course, what he got for it was Dante showing mercy to this demon. I think that type of thing ****es Vergil off, something Dante would want. Also, it ran, cowardice is not something Vergil likes.

If I remember correctly, Leviathan was a guardian of the tower, so of course it hung around the tower. Dante fights demons outside of Temen-ni-gru in the first few missions, and lo and behold we come across the grizzly scene of murders in Love Planet, where we find a bunch of demons. Gee, I wonder who got murdered and who did all that murdering.

Still on this? This whole maybe it is a human, maybe it isn't. Can't confirm, but since they bleed red, why not? You're drawing conclusions and making headcanon. You believe it's a human, I believe it possibly could not be human.


Your point? You're sort of agreeing with me right now. You can also investigate some of the debris on your way to Temen-ni-gru and Dante says that he hopes people manage to make it out okay. They use a narrative excuse of murdered and hiding humans to cover up for not wanting to put the time and energy into showing off wholly incidental characters.

My point is...so sharp, it sliced into a human's leg and made it hard for even Dante to question WHERE ARE THE HUMANS?

Even DMC4 on more powerful systems didn't bother with populating the game world with NPCs outside of cutscenes.

You're still trying to drive into everyones' skulls that games with people in the background for environmental reasons on the PS2 were purposefully left out of DMC 4 which was on a PS3 system. They simply didn't bother with adding them in. That's an excuse to compliment an argument if I ever heard one.


So...? That doesn't change the fact that Sparda did devote his life after a leaving Mundus' army with protecting humanity, as evidenced by DMC2 and DMC4.

It also, doesn't change the fact that the only ones capable of opening the seal were his sons. For whatever reason they wanted to.

It's also entirely possible that the keys needed to be outside of the underworld, lest some demon schmucks just open it right back up again. Entrusting the keys to his sons (two powerful half-demons), with a convoluted unlocking ceremony, would have ensured that the underworld wouldn't be opened so easily. Unless...of course...one of the keyholders turned out to be a giant douchenozzle who wants that power for himself...

For whatever reasons they wanted to. Let's not forget that Sparda plans in advance.

Sure, it could have been, but we don't know. It's all theory, but then why would Vergil want this? There's no concrete evidence to support that being his reason, just as there isn't that Vergil wanted to become supreme ruler of the planet and ban everyone from wearing pants.

 

[WolfOD64]

The Wolf guy is just looking to find out where his happy place truly is.

Sorry, I thought this was an open conversation...you know being a thread and all. I wasn't aware I needed an invitation to speak.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

Wait...hold on...........OK

My bad, I was yawning.

First off, stop this sh!t, please. It serves zero purpose and it's just patronizing.

You're saying that there's evidence that there is in fact human blood on the ground? So, even if it were, how do you know if those were the same demons that Vergil was controlling? How do you know it wasn't the demons that attacked him? Also, Dante and Vergil bleed red.

There's evidence of people getting killed. The blood smeared all over Love Planet is part of that evidence.

The only demons that attacked Vergil were Abyss, and those never seen outside of the underworld in the game. While possible it could have been something Vergil doesn't control, everything encountered in the city and in the tower has been helping Vergil.

And saying Dante and Vergil also bleed red is just f#cking semantics, dude. The only things we know that bleed red are humans and two or three other demons.

I believe Vergil was doing several things with that Vanguard. Testing Dante's strength, making sure Dante stays focused on the task at hand, but of course, what he got for it was Dante showing mercy to this demon. I think that type of thing ****es Vergil off, something Dante would want.

Also, it ran, cowardice is not something Vergil likes.

Dante didn't show mercy to the demon, the thing ran off before he could chop it in half. It ran of back up to Vergil, and began pleading. However, this doesn't change the fact that the Vanguard was acting under Vergil's orders.

And you keep talking about things as if Vergil had planned for Dante to fall into his plans - that is so very much not the case. The Hells were sent to kill Dante in his office and retrieve his amulet, then the Vanguard was sent to kill Dante in the street and retrieve his amulet. All the demons but the bosses that Dante encountered were there to kill Dante so Vergil could get his amulet. Vergil had no part for Dante in his plan other than to get his amulet.

Still on this? This whole maybe it is a human, maybe it isn't. Can't confirm, but since they bleed red, why not? You're drawing conclusions and making headcanon. You believe it's a human, I believe it possibly could not be human.

Damn near everything points to humans! It was a human club where human people sat and watch humans get naked for money! Demons showed up with the Temen-ni-gru, started terrorizing the town, and killed humans as they found them. Your belief requires a gigantic leap in, and ignorance of, logic to believe.

My point is...so sharp, it sliced into a human's leg and made it hard for even Dante to question WHERE ARE THE HUMANS?

I f#cking told you like two posts ago! They're either dead or in hiding because demons are running around in their f#cking city!

Even DMC4 on more powerful systems didn't bother with populating the game world with NPCs outside of cutscenes.

You're still trying to drive into everyones' skulls that games with people in the background for environmental reasons on the PS2 were purposefully left out of DMC 4 which was on a PS3 system. They simply didn't bother with adding them in. That's an excuse to compliment an argument if I ever heard one.

It's an excuse to compliment not needlessly increasing development time and workload. The game's own narrative justifies the lack of people seen in the game. It's not some excuse I just made up, dude. Dante mentions where the humans would be to wave away the easy question that anyone would ask - where the hell are all the people? Dante surveys some rubble, and thinks "Such devastation, I hope people made it out out of the city safely".

 

[The Final Offer]

No, you f#cking didn't :/ I never said "plainly see Vergil killing humans", but I did say that he doesn't care about them and that he's one-f#cking-dimensional, because ALL THAT IS SHOWN IN THE F#CKING GAME. The sh!t I've been saying is RIGHT. F#CKING. THERE.

Logic backed up by reason aren't headcanon. Everything I talked about is a conclusion drawn logically by what we are shown in the game. No broad interpretations, just the facts, ma'am, and things directly inferred by them.

Vergil has killed for such petty and dishonorable reasons - he kills an unarmed Arkham because he's just done with him. Hell, he gave zero sh!ts for all the people in the city that he put at risk by raising Temen-ni-gru, too.

[Headcanon.]

He attacked Arkham because he knew Arkham was not UNARMED and he was a liability to the plan. In which Arkham would show hours later. Just as the predicting Vergil had.

We've already talked about knowing whether or not Vergil gave a s*** for all the people in the city. It's unconfirmed if Vergil knew the tower would do that.

[/Headcanon.]

At least I'm going off of everything that's in the game and not explaining headcanon as irrefutable fact.

Can we say that now you are?

 

[The Final Offer]

Sorry, I thought this was an open conversation...you know being a thread and all. I wasn't aware I needed an invitation to speak.

I didn't expect you to not respond to my response. I thought you would've had something for me...or are you and 2X in sync with your opinion about Vergil?

 

[WolfOD64]

I didn't expect you to not respond to my response. I thought you would've had something for me...or are you and 2X in sync with your opinion about Vergil?

You can say that. I'm just probably going to leave the arguing to him, because I've wasted enough brain cells on this topic countless times before in past arguments. I guess 2x has a lot more patience than I do when talking about Devil May Cry.
Me, I can only take so much head-canon, bias and immunity to logic at a time. You all can continue arguing...I'm off to eat Pop-Tarts and play some Sleeping Dogs until the next interesting thread beckons. Hopefully it'll have more tolerance for open opinions and rational discussion than this one.

 

[The Final Offer]

First off, stop this sh!t, please. It serves zero purpose and it's just patronizing.



There's evidence of people getting killed. The blood smeared all over Love Planet is part of that evidence.

The only demons that attacked Vergil were Abyss, and those never seen outside of the underworld in the game. While possible it could have been something Vergil doesn't control, everything encountered in the city and in the tower has been helping Vergil.

And saying Dante and Vergil also bleed red is just f#cking semantics, dude. The only things we know that bleed red are humans and two or three other demons.



Dante didn't show mercy to the demon, the thing ran off before he could chop it in half. It ran of back up to Vergil, and began pleading. However, this doesn't change the fact that the Vanguard was acting under Vergil's orders.

And you keep talking about things as if Vergil had planned for Dante to fall into his plans - that is so very much not the case. The Hells were sent to kill Dante in his office and retrieve his amulet, then the Vanguard was sent to kill Dante in the street and retrieve his amulet. All the demons but the bosses that Dante encountered were there to kill Dante so Vergil could get his amulet. Vergil had no part for Dante in his plan other than to get his amulet.



Damn near everything points to humans! It was a human club where human people sat and watch humans get naked for money! Demons showed up with the Temen-ni-gru, started terrorizing the town, and killed humans as they found them. Your belief requires a gigantic leap in, and ignorance of, logic to believe.




I f#cking told you like two posts ago! They're either dead or in hiding because demons are running around in their f#cking city!

Even DMC4 on more powerful systems didn't bother with populating the game world with NPCs outside of cutscenes.



It's an excuse to compliment not needlessly increasing development time and workload. The game's own narrative justifies the lack of people seen in the game. It's not some excuse I just made up, dude. Dante mentions where the humans would be to wave away the easy question that anyone would ask - where the hell are all the people? Dante surveys some rubble, and thinks "Such devastation, I hope people made it out out of the city safely".

So, the patronizing is mostly on your end. You placing swears all over the place is all on you. I don't enjoy talking to someone with a foul mouth. Me speaking about my yawning is epic and deserves the praise of the al mighty lord. You think I don't understand where you're coming from, when I do. You just don't see where I'm coming from because you believe you can't possibly be wrong about this. Well, even detectives get it wrong.

Here we go with the "It's gotta be humans" without any facts only vagueness. That argument is tired and you know it, but I do enjoy stubborn. The deal about Dante and Vergil is a fact and you never considered that there are other demons besides the ones shown in town.

Yes, I do keep talking about things as if Vergil involved Dante into his plans. If Vergil can handle himself against these lesser demons, then Dante can as well. You seem to be the only player who doesn't consider Vergil capable of devising a plan this elaborate. Even DANTE knew.

I hope you've noticed your chances of being 100% correct is on the same level as I.

If you pull something from the game, I'm ok with it being a fact, I'm not okay with it being vague and your predictions being used as facts. Dante doesn't know, therefore, You don't either.

Are we done here?

 

[The Final Offer]

You can say that. I'm just probably going to leave the arguing to him, because I've wasted enough brain cells on this topic countless times before in past arguments. I guess 2x has a lot more patience than I do when talking about Devil May Cry.
Me, I can only take so much head-canon, bias and immunity to logic at a time. You all can continue arguing...I'm off to eat Pop-Tarts and play some Sleeping Dogs until the next interesting thread beckons. Hopefully it'll have more tolerance for open opinions and rational discussion than this one.

I'm glad you found your happy place.​

 

[TWOxACROSS]

Vergil has killed for such petty and dishonorable reasons - he kills an unarmed Arkham because he's just done with him. Hell, he gave zero sh!ts for all the people in the city that he put at risk by raising Temen-ni-gru, too.

[Headcanon.]

THAT IS RIGHT THERE IN THE GAME! We see Vergil kill Arkham, and we see Vergil putting an entire city, and the world at large, at risk by raising Temen-ni-gru and unleashing demons in the streets! How in pluperfect f#ck is that headcanon?!

He attacked Arkham because he knew Arkham was not UNARMED and he was a liability to the plan. In which Arkham would show hours later. Just as the predicting Vergil had.

Vergil killed Arkham (taking him by surprise) because he was no longer useful to him. Vergil explicitly said that as he was killing him. Was he killing Arkham preemptively to stop him from possibly jiggering up his plans? Maybe, but that doesn't change the fact that he killed him without warning - if Vergil knew how powerful Arkham really was, and if he was as honorable as people keep saying, then wouldn't Vergil have set up a even duel for the two of them?

We've already talked about knowing whether or not Vergil gave a s*** for all the people in the city. It's unconfirmed if Vergil knew the tower would do that.

The tower was underneath the friggin' city! Where the hell did he think it was going to come up?! And if he was able to choose where it came up, then Vergil chose to have it appear near Dante so they could easily retrieve his amulet, and since Dante has been hanging out in the middle of a city, where did he think the tower was going to come up?!

And seriously? I doubt Vergil didn't know that raising Temen-ni-gru would release a bunch of demons on the world - that's what the tower does, it gives demons an open portal to the human world.

At least I'm going off of everything that's in the game and not explaining headcanon as irrefutable fact.

Can we say that now you are?

NOTHING I'VE SAID IS HEADCANON! IT'S ALL IN THE GAME. For f#ck's sake Final, it's like you're just completely ignoring that!

 

[The Final Offer]

THAT IS RIGHT THERE IN THE GAME! We see Vergil kill Arkham, and we see Vergil putting an entire city, and the world at large, at risk by raising Temen-ni-gru and unleashing demons in the streets! How in pluperfect f#ck is that headcanon?!



Vergil killed Arkham (taking him by surprise) because he was no longer useful to him. Vergil explicitly said that as he was killing him. Was he killing Arkham preemptively to stop him from possibly jiggering up his plans? Maybe, but that doesn't change the fact that he killed him without warning - if Vergil knew how powerful Arkham really was, and if he was as honorable as people keep saying, then wouldn't Vergil have set up a even duel for the two of them?



The tower was underneath the friggin' city! Where the hell did he think it was going to come up?! And if he was able to choose where it came up, then Vergil chose to have it appear near Dante so they could easily retrieve his amulet, and since Dante has been hanging out in the middle of a city, where did he think the tower was going to come up?!

And seriously? I doubt Vergil didn't know that raising Temen-ni-gru would release a bunch of demons on the world - that's what the tower does, it gives demons an open portal to the human world.



NOTHING I'VE SAID IS HEADCANON! IT'S ALL IN THE GAME. For f#ck's sake Final, it's like you're just completely ignoring that!

We've been over this. You believe that your "logic" isn't the same as everyone elses'. Remember, you're the same guy who didn't think Vergil was speaking of not being able to protect his mother and rather just speaking to Dante. If you were using logic on this, you'd put two and two together wouldn't you? No, instead you said that this is what the fans think it is, but state what you think it REALLY is.

Let me say it again in a different manner.

You say there's blood that looks like human blood. You believe it's human.

We say that there's Vergil, who seems to be speaking about his mother in that line about protecting. We believe it's about his mother.

The main thing the both of these have in common is that they are vague and unconfirmed.

I'm not ignoring what you say, I told you I know it is fact, but if it's vague. So don't force it forward like you KNOW. When it can be easily argued that it isn't.

I really, don't know what else to say to have you understand that there's alot of vague things in DMC that you can use your imagination with.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

So, the patronizing is mostly on your end. You placing swears all over the place is all on you. I don't enjoy talking to someone with a foul mouth. Me speaking about my yawning is epic and deserves the praise of the al mighty lord. You think I don't understand where you're coming from, when I do. You just don't see where I'm coming from because you believe you can't possibly be wrong about this. Well, even detectives get it wrong.

Apologies my foul mouth offends you, m'lord. I'm annoyed because you keep refuting things by saying their headcanon. Nothing I have said hasn't been something that is shown or inferred by the game. You're essentially trying to say that the game is wrong.

Here we go with the "It's gotta be humans" without any facts only vagueness. That argument is tired and you know it, but I do enjoy stubborn. The deal about Dante and Vergil is a fact and you never considered that there are other demons besides the ones shown in town.

We can only go off of what we know, Final Offer. That is what I have been getting at. What we know is that a bunch of demons infested the city when Temen-ni-gru came up in the middle of it. Dante mentions other people and how they must have escaped, gone into hiding, or otherwise met with the alternative - death. Like I said before, there's other possibilities, but they require so much ignorance of logic that the game is putting before us that it's doubtfully anything else more grand than the simplest explanation based on the facts the game presents to us.

Yes, I do keep talking about things as if Vergil involved Dante into his plans. If Vergil can handle himself against these lesser demons, then Dante can as well. You seem to be the only player who doesn't consider Vergil capable of devising a plan this elaborate. Even DANTE knew.

I never said he wasn't capable, I said that the game shows us something entirely differently. Vergil himself thinks Dante is weak, hence why he consistently preached to him that power was necessary for Dante to protect things. Vergil's goal was to get the amulet, and nothing in the game points Vergil having planned for Dante to consistently get in his way - especially when just before their second battle Vergil is upset that the mechanism isn't working, and he figures it needs more of Sparda's blood, then he just says "I guess I'll just use yours (Dante's)" He had never planned for Dante to keep going through the tower. In fact, he hadn't planned on Dante surviving their first battle, when Vergil took what he had been after and then impaled Dante with his own sword. Vergil consistently adjusted his plans when Dante kept surviving.

I hope you've noticed your chances of being 100% correct is on the same level as I.

If I was arguing what my headcanon was against yours, then sure, but I'm not. Everything I've said is inferred or told to us by the game.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

We've been over this. You believe that your "logic" isn't the same as everyone elses'. Remember, you're the same guy who didn't think Vergil was speaking of not being able to protect his mother and rather just speaking to Dante. If you were using logic on this, you'd put two and two together wouldn't you? No, instead you said that this is what the fans think it is, but state what you think it REALLY is.

Let me say it again in a different manner.

You say there's blood that looks like human blood. You believe it's human.

We say that there's Vergil, who seems to be speaking about his mother in that line about protecting. We believe it's about his mother.

The main thing the both of these have in common is that they are vague and unconfirmed.

I'm not ignoring what you say, I told you I know it is fact, but if it's vague. So don't force it forward like you KNOW. When it can be easily argued that it isn't.

I really, don't know what else to say to have you understand that there's alot of vague things in DMC that you can use your imagination with.

You're not arguing vagueness, dude, you're completely ignoring logic in favor of something that adheres to something you want to be true.

It's LOGICAL that it's human blood because humans are the ones that populate that city and frequent its establishments. It's LOGICAL that it's human blood because humans are the ones most at risk of death by the demons that appeared, and how they just love killing humans indiscriminately.

You say it's vague because you want it to be something else, because you want to think a specific thing about Vergil, something that is unraveled by other information the game provides for us. You've argued this very small point simply because it would go against the larger idea that Vergil might care about humans in some way.

How you seem to be playing it is that; the deaths of humans in the city because of Vergil's negligence or just plain disinterest in them would contradict the ideal that Vergil cares about humans, so obviously, to prevent the contradiction, the former must not be true, ie, that no humans were harmed.

That's circular logic, and I'm f#cking sick of it.

 

[The Final Offer]

You're not arguing vagueness, dude, you're completely ignoring logic in favor of something that adheres to something you want to be true.

It's LOGICAL that it's human blood because humans are the ones that populate that city and frequent its establishments. It's LOGICAL that it's human blood because humans are the ones most at risk of death by the demons that appeared, and how they just love killing humans indiscriminately.

You say it's vague because you want it to be something else, because you want to think a specific thing about Vergil, something that is unraveled by other information the game provides for us. You've argued this very small point simply because it would go against the larger idea that Vergil might care about humans in some way.

How you seem to be playing it is that; the deaths of humans in the city because of Vergil's negligence or just plain disinterest in them would contradict the ideal that Vergil cares about humans, so obviously, to prevent the contradiction, the former must not be true, ie, that no humans were harmed.

That's circular logic, and I'm f#cking sick of it.

Whoa whoa whoa.....

Again, you hit me with the assumptions. I asked you nicely NOT TO.

Now you're saying I WANT something to be something else? Lol! Did your logic tell you that? Did your powers of deduction tell you that Sherlock? This is what I've been arguing with ladies and gentlemen.

This is the exact reason why we can't have nice things!

To accept your logic....at least in this conversation would be complete surrender to one dimension.

Yo, all detectives need to pull out a pen and a notepad and jot down that 2x can determine who's blood is who's without running any tests. He can determine if there's dog blood, fish blood, human blood, pig blood, demon blood, etc without touching it.

I'm going to put in a recommendation for 2x to become a psychiatrist because that guy knows what peoples' intentions are, were, and will be. Holy **** man, we can finally put our hypothesis to rest.

Ok ok. I'm done with giving you insight to your ridiculousness.

All I've been saying to you is that, even though you feel you have enough evidence, you can't just go and assume you got the answer. The answer is what you need, there's evidence that makes your answer seem true, but without being able to prove it, you're not doing anything.

In my case, I said "I think" which means there's a probability. You aren't saying probability, you're saying there is no doubt this is it.

You've tried to counter by using what evidence you have, but it's not enough to convince anyone who believes otherwise. So when that person explains to you that your evidence could be the answer or it could be something else. YOU SHOULD NOT SPEAK ANYMORE UNTIL YOU HAVE PROOF not directions to the thought.

Have you never been contested before? You seem new to this. No offense by that. For real.

To sum it up for those who didn't read any of it. I've been guessing without truly believing and 2x and Wolf have been believing their guess is the right one and been trying to downplay my own.

Here;s a challenge to anyone paying attention. Please list what we KNOW about Vergil in DMC3.

 

[DarkSlayerZero]

To save billions, he has to sacrifice thousands. Then so be it. We don't truly know how he feels about humans in any of the games.

In DmC we do.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

Y'know what? I'm done with this. FO, I like you, but I'm sick of you acting like a patronizing ass and just flat out refusing to understand what I've been saying.

I've been in plenty of discussions, many with people throwing around logical fallacies and ignoring what is known in favor of their own perception.

And this...

To sum it up for those who didn't read any of it. I've been guessing without truly believing and 2x and Wolf have been believing their guess is the right one and been trying to downplay my own.

This is bullsh!t, because you're putting words in my mouth. The game sets out information for us to understand what's going on, and through logical inference we see how things are. That's not some guess, it's just how it is. It's sometimes painfully obvious what is being inferred by the game and its world, like f#cking people murdered at a goddamn strip club.

Whatever I'm "downplaying" is giant leaps of logic and ignorance of what is said, shown, and inferred. You can believe what you want, but you can't hold it up when it contradicts what we actually know from the one friggin' game he's in where he actually has agency. All of these "probabilities" that you've been arguing with me about are not probable, especially when logical explanations are so f#cking close at hand. The simplest explanations are have the highest probability of being right, because if it was to be otherwise, the game would have gone out of its way to explain something else.

When you have to make a gigantic leap in logic to come to a conclusion, it's more than likely because there's no information in the immediate source to support it, or because that is the desired conclusion where the elements are cobbled together to fit that conclusion (circular logic).

I'm sorry for dragging the argument out like that, but sh!t dude, some things really are just that obvious :/

 

[Demi-fiend]

Whoops. I didn't know you ended this conversation already.

Y'know what? I'm done with this. FO, I like you, but I'm sick of you acting like a patronizing ass and just flat out refusing to understand what I've been saying.

-------------------------------------------------------

Come on guys, its one thing to disagree, but some posts are getting downright rude.

Chill out.

That's not rude.

This is rude --

------------------------------------------------------

BOTH OF YOU SHUT UP.

I'VE ALREADY ESTABLISHED THAT VERGIL IS A WATERED-DOWN VERSION OF MELFICE.

OFFER, IF YOU LIKE VERGIL THAT MUCH, WHY NOT SHOW MELFICE MORE LOVE?

TWO, IF YOU HAVE ISSUES WITH VERGIL, THEN YOU'LL PROBABLY HATE MELFICE EVEN MORE BECAUSE HE MIGHT AS WELL BE HIM.

EITHER THAT, OR YOU LIKE MELFICE MORE 'CAUSE HE'S ACTUALLY WELL-WRITTEN.

AND IF THAT'S THE CASE, THEN JUST IGNORE VERGIL'S EXISTENCE BECAUSE HE'S BEEN INSPIRED BY NEARLY EVERY BADASS BAD GUY EVER.

ENOUGH.

-------------------------------------------------------

 

[The Final Offer]

Y'know what? I'm done with this. FO, I like you, but I'm sick of you acting like a patronizing ass and just flat out refusing to understand what I've been saying.

I've been in plenty of discussions, many with people throwing around logical fallacies and ignoring what is known in favor of their own perception.

And this...



This is bullsh!t, because you're putting words in my mouth. The game sets out information for us to understand what's going on, and through logical inference we see how things are. That's not some guess, it's just how it is. It's sometimes painfully obvious what is being inferred by the game and its world, like f#cking people murdered at a goddamn strip club.

Whatever I'm "downplaying" is giant leaps of logic and ignorance of what is said, shown, and inferred. You can believe what you want, but you can't hold it up when it contradicts what we actually know from the one friggin' game he's in where he actually has agency. All of these "probabilities" that you've been arguing with me about are not probable, especially when logical explanations are so f#cking close at hand. The simplest explanations are have the highest probability of being right, because if it was to be otherwise, the game would have gone out of its way to explain something else.

When you have to make a gigantic leap in logic to come to a conclusion, it's more than likely because there's no information in the immediate source to support it, or because that is the desired conclusion where the elements are cobbled together to fit that conclusion (circular logic).

I'm sorry for dragging the argument out like that, but sh!t dude, some things really are just that obvious :/

I see everything being used as neutral. Nothing here is meant to harm or belittle anyone. No matter how the **** sounds. Since alot of us are anime watchers.

This sums it up. Just don't get in the way. Let the battle continue until we're both tired out.

I don't want no moderators or mediators coming in here thinking we're ****ed at one another because that damn sure isn't it.

 

[TWOxACROSS]