Timeline Changed - DMC 2 Now Takes Place Before DMC 4

[Vergil95]

Pretty much this. 5 failed by playing too heavily into "sympathetic fandom interpretation" that absolved Vergil of his transgressions by pinning it on how he wanted to feel protected and thought Dante was the favored son, at which point they have to retcon something that was explicitly stated and reiterated in various media ( Dante's "My mother risked her life to save me" line in 1, Mundus's "The true enemy was you, Eva!" spiel in Viewtiful Joe, Dante's flashback in 3's manga of Eva warning him to hide as she draws the demons' attentions from his hiding place by setting herself as a distraction) to entertain Vergil's entitlement issues by saying "Actually, she died looking for you, so she loved you after all!" It's like when Loki ranted at Thor about being in his shadow and being "cast off into the abyss" in 2012 Avengers when he deliberately let go just because he heard the word "No". sometimes, entitled whiner genocidal maniacs are exactly that and their delusions can't be entertained. Imagined slights, indeed.

For a guy that wanted to be protected by his mother, he sure didn't care when he hired a man that murdered his own wife and orphaned their daughter, and then expected that man to murder the daughter too, huh?

And for that matter, Dante should have cared much more about what Vergil was doing precisely because of the memory of his mother if not the father on whose name he swore he'd kill Mundus. Regardless about how he felt about Sparda, Eva still died to demons, and whoever ordered that attack was still out there, and both twins should have had that informing their actions instead of some bizarre fujoshi-bait tunnel vision where they're each the only thing that matters to the other at the exclusion of everyone else.

They excluded each other because they have different vision of how they wanted to live they're life, vergil wanted power at all cost even if that means kill all humanity, dante on the other hand wanted to protect humanity from demon even if that mens kill vergil himself

The quote from dante in dmc 1 is still valid since Eva died protecting him and his brother, he was not protecting herself

Vietwful joe is not even canon lol

Dmc 3 manga can go **** for me, they didn't even finish it, so how can that be considered part of the canon? Better putting Eva flashback into a main dmc game that late it remain to a manga nobody read, and dmc 5 did the better things by remaking that scene instead of force itself to follow an incomplete manga

 

[DarkSlayerVergil]

There s more than that
Vergil saw himself weak the day he could not fight Back mundus demons and save his mother but he also hates her because she wasn't able to help him and abandoned him, so he saw humanity and his human half as a weakness...
That's why he wanted power, he saw himself as weak and last chapter of vision of V let us see this, when he meet the boy who wanted to save his mother, he had. Vision of himself beign massacred bu mundus minion, and just look at how he talk to that boy, calling him weak because he is unable to protect both himself and his mother...
that boy is just like vergil was that day when mundus minion attacked his house...

Vergil is more complicated than you think, he is full of contrasting emotion and feeling, it's not just a bad or good guy

See here's the thing, if they would of simply had Virgil believe Eva favoratism of Dante over him and let that be his reasoning for crapping on his parents memory while also letting it motivate his own selfish self interest at the cost of even humanity being wiped out. That'd be more sensible as you can still paint Vergil as empathetic while also still aknowledging that he's an absolute piece of cambion trash.

 

[V's patron]

Bingo is a decent writer with strengths and weaknesses like everyone else. After 4 I'd be reluctant to have him work on another romance. 4 is probably the weakest story from the one's he worked on unless he worked on the anime which would become the bottom of that list.

For reference- 3,5,4, anime(if he actually worked on it).

4 is harder to judge because it had half it's budget and dev time cut but I'm not sure that would have solved it's core problem- Nero. Honestly I rather cut him out and give me another young Dante game. If DMC6 is just him I ain't interested.

5 improves on a lot of 4's failures but it gets bogged down by the whole V is Vergil kingdom hearts style nonsense. I would've just preffered a more straightforward Vergil redemption arc that just ended up in the same place. In 5's defense it pulls off the kingdom hearts style nonsense better than Kingdom hearts does.

Maybe DMC6 is Persona influenced? .

The anime is just dull to sit through. It's not terrible but not worth watching outside of the lady/trish teamup episode and the johnny somebody one. When some rando has more charisma than Dante you know this thing is bad.

For 2, it was just someone else's mess that bingo and itsuno was stuck with. I get why they didn't wanna deal with it till now.

Honestly if it were me , I would've just retconned Dante out and bring someone else in for the remake. Use it as a backdoor pilot for a Lady/Trish/Lucia spinoff.

or make my V/Lucia fanfic a reality...............

PS. You'll thank me later.

 

[BlackAngel]

I don't think so, nero and dante are two completely different characters, just like solid snake and naked snake, despite them look alike

I actually prefer the original story, of vergil needing more power because he couldn't save his mother, just like the last chapter of vision of V shows us

But the execution was terrible. And it would be better that Vergil left his son to be orphaned. And decides to fully embrace his demonic heritage and forsake his humanity, because he couldn't saved a woman he loved. Just like how he lost his mother when he was a child. He was misguided by his own pain and believing that strength means everything and nothing else.

 

[Morgan]

They excluded each other because they have different vision of how they wanted to live they're life, vergil wanted power at all cost even if that means kill all humanity, dante on the other hand wanted to protect humanity from demon even if that mens kill vergil himself

Read what I said again. They exclude other people by focusing only on each other. That's why I call it fujoshi-bait; every time they're both in the same game they become each others' "world" like an overwrought romantic tumor, hammered in by V calling his demon half "[Dante's] reason" to fight. How? Why should anyone care? Vergil's spent literally more time dead or MIA than anyone's ever known him.

The quote from dante in dmc 1 is still valid since Eva died protecting him and his brother, he was not protecting herself

No it's not. "My mother died looking for my brother" is vastly different than "my mother risked her life to save me" especially when Dante says that line directly comparing Eva's death to the way Trish died not even a few minutes prior, sustaining a hit meant to kill Dante. And especially when we see the flashback of Eva's death in 5 and she holds a near-minute-long monologue to Dante, leaves the room, and a whole five seconds later, she gives a death scream.

That's pathetic.

Vietwful joe is not even canon lol

Neither was the DMC1 novel until Capcom decided to drag out its corpse and make it dance. VJ was still done by Kamiya and his team and he tended to put Easter Eggs of other characters to flesh them out in ways he didn't get the chance to, and he chose to explain Trish's revival in 1 via a statement in VJ that Eva's spirit haunted Dante's half of the amulet and that she revived him from death before.

Dmc 3 manga can go **** for me, they didn't even finish it, so how can that be considered part of the canon? Better putting Eva flashback into a main dmc game that late it remain to a manga nobody read, and dmc 5 did the better things by remaking that scene instead of force itself to follow an incomplete manga

Yeah, uh, good for you. Clearly Capcom valued the manga to still keep it in continuity, but given how slapdash the canon even is with all the supplementary material they crib off of for their main-games plot, that's not a very good thing.

As an aside: I get it, there are people on the internet saying something you don't like about a game or character you like. You mind not flying off the handle about it? It's kind of embarrassing.

Bingo is a decent writer with strengths and weaknesses like everyone else. After 4 I'd be reluctant to have him work on another romance. 4 is probably the weakest story from the one's he worked on unless he worked on the anime which would become the bottom of that list.

For reference- 3,5,4, anime(if he actually worked on it).

What do you mean "if"?

Bingo Morihashi (森橋 ビンゴ) is a Japanese novelist. He also contributed to writing the video game franchise Devil May Cry, its television anime series, as well as two light novels based on it.

He worked on the anime. It was trash.

 

[V's patron]

@Morgan
Easy bro. I just forgot.

 

[berto]

At that point it's just easier to write it off as Beginner's Luck.

Looking at his track record that might not be too hard to imagine. Still, I don't think it's all him. Itsuno is the one who worked on DmC. He's the one who made the decision to give Nero the front seat, he's the one who almost quit when DmC failed to meet expectations. Bingo wrote the story but the actual plot was not his alone. God, I really need to finish that thing I'm working on.

Edit: I might be remembering wrong but There was this thing where the staff talked about how Kamiya did uncredited writing and an advisory role for 3. I think it was from the interviews in the artbook.

 

[BlackAngel]

Read what I said again. They exclude other people by focusing only on each other. That's why I call it fujoshi-bait; every time they're both in the same game they become each others' "world" like an overwrought romantic tumor, hammered in by V calling his demon half "[Dante's] reason" to fight. How? Why should anyone care? Vergil's spent literally more time dead or MIA than anyone's ever known him.



No it's not. "My mother died looking for my brother" is vastly different than "my mother risked her life to save me" especially when Dante says that line directly comparing Eva's death to the way Trish died not even a few minutes prior, sustaining a hit meant to kill Dante. And especially when we see the flashback of Eva's death in 5 and she holds a near-minute-long monologue to Dante, leaves the room, and a whole five seconds later, she gives a death scream.

That's pathetic.



Neither was the DMC1 novel until Capcom decided to drag out its corpse and make it dance. VJ was still done by Kamiya and his team and he tended to put Easter Eggs of other characters to flesh them out in ways he didn't get the chance to, and he chose to explain Trish's revival in 1 via a statement in VJ that Eva's spirit haunted Dante's half of the amulet and that she revived him from death before.



Yeah, uh, good for you. Clearly Capcom valued the manga to still keep it in continuity, but given how slapdash the canon even is with all the supplementary material they crib off of for their main-games plot, that's not a very good thing.

As an aside: I get it, there are people on the internet saying something you don't like about a game or character you like. You mind not flying off the handle about it? It's kind of embarrassing.



What do you mean "if"?

Bingo Morihashi (森橋 ビンゴ) is a Japanese novelist. He also contributed to writing the video game franchise Devil May Cry, its television anime series, as well as two light novels based on it.

He worked on the anime. It was trash.

I agree with your points. Especially with the whole thing about V explaining why Dante is fighting his half self. It doesn't make any sense why they're fighting, and his explanation is fighting for "different reasons". On the second DMC manga, Dante was fighting Vergil because he decided to embrace his demonic heritage, and forsake their mother who was killed by demons. The writer should've thought things through.

 

[Demi-fiend]

Vergil got a power-up from literally sitting on his butt letting a magic tree do the work of strengthening him. Can't relate.

Akshuly...

Ok but seriously though, Dante once stated at the end of 5 during the boss battle that it's "all about survival and fighting your hardest" and all that other 80s montage crap.

To its credit, 5 did state that Vergil fought his hardest (against other demons?) without the Yamato, or his "Sword Nelo Angelo" -- which may or may not have been Yamato anyway -- after re-awakening and kept losing.

And he and Dante performed the same ceremony in front of the portrait (impaling yourself with the sword) after years of fighting other demons.

So Dante keeps winning (like a Tru Gary Stu) and Vergil keeps losing. He won once to Dante on top of Temen-ni-gru and once in Mallet Island, but that was it.

If I'm to understand this right, resurrected Vergil spent DMC2 and DMC4 fighting because -- well, it doesn't say, as usual. I'll just write this up as him trying to defeat other demons in order to gain a new devil arm -- and when he couldn't do that, he steals back Yamato instead and performs the ceremony. Headcanon explanations win again, despite DMC5 trying to tie up every lose end in the series.

I'm pretty sure I know why he didn't do it sooner, but that would be best saved for another post. Besides, it's just more headcanon anyway.

 

[Morgan]

Looking at his track record that might not be too hard to imagine. Still, I don't think it's all him. Itsuno is the one who worked on DmC. He's the one who made the decision to give Nero the front seat, he's the one who almost quit when DmC failed to meet expectations. Bingo wrote the story but the actual plot was not his alone. God, I really need to finish that thing I'm working on.

Edit: I might be remembering wrong but There was this thing where the staff talked about how Kamiya did uncredited writing and an advisory role for 3. I think it was from the interviews in the artbook.

If it helps,

Bingo has specific writing credit on episodes 3, 4, 11, and 12.
As in,
the Brangelina romance episode where Dante implies that Sparda and Eva didn't love each other,
the catfight episode,
and the final two episodes where we don't even see Dante's DT and the anime remembered it had a plot and also Lady and Trish are background characters with cameos fighting lesser demons.

I don't begrudge him for why the ideas exist in the anime. What I do take issue with is the execution, because I doubt anyone pulled a gun to his head and said "Okay, put this in these episodes, but do it as terribly as possible so people will be chatting about how bad it is in a forum years after the episodes air".

I haven't found yet who's responsible for the Sound Drama CD, but given how much better it is at continuity and recurring characters, and the ideas in the Drama are reused in 5 (Machiavelli, etc), I'd say it's probably not Bingo who wrote it, and if he did then it wasn't by himself.

I agree with your points. Especially with the whole thing about V explaining why Dante is fighting his half self. It doesn't make any sense why they're fighting, and his explanation is fighting for "different reasons". On the second DMC manga, Dante was fighting Vergil because he decided to embrace his demonic heritage, and forsake their mother who was killed by demons. The writer should've thought things through.

You ever seen someone catch a ball and still fumble it? This is that. The reason for why Dante fights and he and Vergil would be at odds are literally right there, provided in different materials, and they still drop the ball in execution.

So Dante keeps winning (like a Tru Gary Stu) and Vergil keeps losing. He won once to Dante on top of Temen-ni-gru and once in Mallet Island, but that was it.

DMC3 lost the plot when Dante got his DT literally the first night of tower scaling, and then surpassed Vergil two nights later, Vergil who had his DT for about ten years, just because Dante believed in himself really really hard and interacted with Lady to figure out his morality. That's it, that's how he won. He didn't even outwit Vergil or anything, he just won because that's what heroes do.

Was Vergil not fighting his hardest then? He seemed to really want the power of Sparda. The writing will never explain it.

 

[BlackAngel]

If it helps,

Bingo has specific writing credit on episodes 3, 4, 11, and 12.
As in,
the Brangelina romance episode where Dante implies that Sparda and Eva didn't love each other,
the catfight episode,
and the final two episodes where we don't even see Dante's DT and the anime remembered it had a plot and also Lady and Trish are background characters with cameos fighting lesser demons.

I don't begrudge him for why the ideas exist in the anime. What I do take issue with is the execution, because I doubt anyone pulled a gun to his head and said "Okay, put this in these episodes, but do it as terribly as possible so people will be chatting about how bad it is in a forum years after the episodes air".

I haven't found yet who's responsible for the Sound Drama CD, but given how much better it is at continuity and recurring characters, and the ideas in the Drama are reused in 5 (Machiavelli, etc), I'd say it's probably not Bingo who wrote it, and if he did then it wasn't by himself.


You ever seen someone catch a ball and still fumble it? This is that. The reason for why Dante fights and he and Vergil would be at odds are literally right there, provided in different materials, and they still drop the ball in execution.


DMC3 lost the plot when Dante got his DT literally the first night of tower scaling, and then surpassed Vergil two nights later, Vergil who had his DT for about ten years, just because Dante believed in himself really really hard and interacted with Lady to figure out his morality. That's it, that's how he won. He didn't even outwit Vergil or anything, he just won because that's what heroes do.

Was Vergil not fighting his hardest then? He seemed to really want the power of Sparda. The writing will never explain it.

How would you would've write the story if you were a creative writer for Capcom?

 

[Morgan]

How would you would've write the story if you were a creative writer for Capcom?

The entire series, or just certain segments?

 

[BlackAngel]

The entire series, or just certain segments?

Whatever you want to start with.

 

[berto]

the Brangelina romance episode where Dante implies that Sparda and Eva didn't love each other,

Oh, lord. See, that is indicative of how they write Dante these days. Everyone clings to the part about being cool and you get all of these interpretations of what people think is cool rather than what makes him tick. The director of 2 basically thought cool was the samurai definition. Cold, stoic, unphased, never showing emotions but noble. Now we have this guy who's always acting like he doesn't care about anything, that he has no basic attachments or concerns/priorities that others would because he's too 'cool' to care. That just makes him a liar and aloof. What's the reason they give for why he is always getting rid of his devil arm? Because he's not the type of man to get attached to personal possessions. In the drama CD, why doesn't he stop Trish from leaving? Because he's not the kind of person who understands the feelings of others. How is this cool? This isn't cool, this is childish. I know I keep saying these things, sound like bloody broken record by now, but their idea of cool is someone who is not charismatic, who doesn't care and who, by admission, lacks empathy.

I don't begrudge him for why the ideas exist in the anime.

I try not to, either. I'm not always successful but I try. I'm tired of hating. I'm tired of the internet being a place where people go to bitch and point fingers. I'm tired of all the hostility. Worse than that, I'm more tired of things not being as good as they used to be. I just watched an episode of the new Star Trek show, discovery, and it was not Star Trek. I don't want to be angry at things anymore but there is so much that puts me there.

 

[Morgan]

Whatever you want to start with.

From the beginning: make it an anthology. Even if the story focuses on Sparda's rebellion, that act affects the entire world across 2000 years of time, not just specific people he's personally related to 2000 years after the fact (his sons) and the people they meet or make (Nero, et al).

DMC1 centers around Dante tackling Sparda's legacy and reforming a full-demon (Trish) while in pursuit of justice/vengeance. Maybe this time Trish fakes as if she's actually Eva returned from the dead, so the deception hits Dante harder than if she just busted his door down and electrocuted him like it's something to do. After Dante defeats Mundus and avenges his mother and brother, his arc is over. At best, a new game would focus on Trish and what it's like for a full-demon to gain a conscience after only being a tool for evil, thereby indirectly clueing us in on what Sparda might have gone through 2000 years ago when he first rebelled against Mundus himself. Funnily enough, one of Mundus's lines of "Sparda blood [spoiling] over the ages" could suggest that Dante is a distant descendant of Sparda instead of direct because of Mundus denoting "the ages" as a reason, not just that Sparda mated with a human woman once and ruined the bloodline by making a single pair of half-breeds.

DMC2 was better without Dante in it so it'd be Lucia-centric, concerning her self-identity with regards to being a tool of Arius's creation when she thought she belonged to a part-demonic bloodline and pagan culture. She could still be a clone of some undisclosed woman, but Lucia's arc completes with Matier confirming that their bonds are deep even without blood relation and that her cultural ties to Dumary matter more than her origins as Arius's Secretary. Matier would probably still have a story about Sparda or it'd be in the background lore, but it'd be more important to establish Argosax as an outlier in Dumary's worship of demons and suggest that the pantheons of gods we know of are potentially demons in different guises with their own morals, goals, and whatnot, instead of a chaotically evil hivemind that only shows traits of nobility and loyalty whenever someone feels like writing it in.

DMC3 was also better without Dante in it because he was a poorly done protagonist and Lady had more stakes and a personal connection to the villain, so we'd be checking in on someone descended from the bloodline of a mortal/holy priestess, because her father is deluded over the priestess's history and her legacy. Arkham was clearly picking and choosing what parts of lore to go with, i.e. the Priestess was "sacrificed" so that Sparda could "become a legend", and he totally glossed over the fact that Sparda lived in the human world quietly and wasn't bleeding women out on altars just for kicks and relevancy.

DMC4 is ^drumroll* better without Dante in it! So, Nero-centric without any bloodline connection to Sparda, or an otherwise negligible one, like, 1/16th of his genes or less. The most notable form of Sparda's effects on Fortuna is the religious cult that still worships the guy. Have it be that the general populace is disillusioned about Sparda's presence and they only go to church out of habit or during special occasions, which triggers Sanctus's plot of "The Savior" and Agnus's cynical monologue about how humans come closer to believing in God only when they experience Hell. Nero is reluctantly sided with the Order because he agrees with their ideals of "killing demons" and he wants to make the town a safer place to live in, but he couldn't care less about their focus on "the Savior"/Sparda specifically. It could even be a personal dislike because the town suffered casualties from a demon invasion when Nero was a child, so he wants to restore his hometown's glory and prove that people can attain power and protect themselves without relying on God, as Sparda wasn't there to save the town when it was ravaged decades prior. Then he loses the use of his arm and he wrestles with whether that constitutes some type of divine punishment.

Barring making it an anthology focused on different characters around the world, if I had to actually include all the characters in the games as we've seen them and edit their existing stories, I can probably wiggle some other plot out of them if not link to posts where I've talked about alternate character arcs.

What's the reason they give for why he is always getting rid of his devil arm? Because he's not the type of man to get attached to possessions. In the drama CD, why doesn't he stop Trish from leaving? Because he's not the kind of person who understands the feelings of others.

Wait, that's the reason they gave? I thought he was constantly selling off his weapons to pay penance to Enzo because he considered himself responsible for the missing arm and tries to make it up to him even when Lady thinks Enzo is abusing that connection. Same with him putting his money into the bank accounts of Grue's daughters to make up for the fact that he indirectly got their dad killed-- that would be enough to justify his debt in a twisted utilitarian(?) perspective (he can get money back, not people's lives, so being in debt and suffering temporary hits to his own quality of life is preferable in comparison to getting allies maimed or killed)-- then the anime torpedoed sensibility in the nuts and portrayed Dante as incompetent with his money and his own job, to where he routinely causes massive collateral damage in the name of coolness.

Oh well, characterization marches on, I guess. I'll just be amused that by these writers' own logic, if Dante's "reason for fighting" is Vergil/Urizen/whatever and he "cares" enough about his brother to still fly into a rage at the mention of him, they just invalidated the whole of episode 10 of the anime and exposed Dante as OOC x 20 by having him call Modeus "pathetic" for his willingness to drop his pacifism in the name of avenging his recently murdered brother. Dante really had no room to talk there given he's much worse.

 

[V's patron]

@Morgan V should be the lead for 5......

 

[BlackAngel]

Oh, lord. See, that is indicative of how they write Dante these days. Everyone clings to the part about being cool and you get all of these interpretations of what people think is cool rather than what makes him tick. The director of 2 basically thought cool was the samurai definition. Cold, stoic, unphased, never showing emotions but noble. Now we have this guy who's always acting like he doesn't care about anything, that he has no basic attachments or concerns/priorities that others would because he's too 'cool' to care. That just makes him a liar and aloof. What's the reason they give for why he is always getting rid of his devil arm? Because he's not the type of man to get attached to possessions. In the drama CD, why doesn't he stop Trish from leaving? Because he's not the kind of person who understands the feelings of others. How is this cool? This isn't cool, this is childish. I know I keep saying these things, sound like bloody broken record by now, but their idea of cool is someone who is not charismatic, who doesn't care and who, by admission, lacks empathy.

This is why the writers should look over the novels, the manga, and the comics to get to know Dante before they write about him. Like how Dante struggled to accept his demonic heritage, because he has a traumatic childhood of seeing his mother getting killed by demons. Also, he witnessed the horrors of demons slaughtering innocent people on his home town. That made Dante embrace is humanity rather than his demonic heritage, because he doesn't want to become a monster and kill innocent people. That's why he's acting cocky and arrogant as a shield to hide away his true heritage.

 

[BlackAngel]

From the beginning: make it an anthology. Even if the story focuses on Sparda's rebellion, that act affects the entire world across 2000 years of time, not just specific people he's personally related to 2000 years after the fact (his sons) and the people they meet or make (Nero, et al).

DMC1 centers around Dante tackling Sparda's legacy and reforming a full-demon (Trish) while in pursuit of justice/vengeance. Maybe this time Trish fakes as if she's actually Eva returned from the dead, so the deception hits Dante harder than if she just busted his door down and electrocuted him like it's something to do. After Dante defeats Mundus and avenges his mother and brother, his arc is over. At best, a new game would focus on Trish and what it's like for a full-demon to gain a conscience after only being a tool for evil, thereby indirectly clueing us in on what Sparda might have gone through 2000 years ago when he first rebelled against Mundus himself. Funnily enough, one of Mundus's lines of "Sparda blood [spoiling] over the ages" could suggest that Dante is a distant descendant of Sparda instead of direct because of Mundus denoting "the ages" as a reason, not just that Sparda mated with a human woman once and ruined the bloodline by making a single pair of half-breeds.

DMC2 was better without Dante in it so it'd be Lucia-centric, concerning her self-identity with regards to being a tool of Arius's creation when she thought she belonged to a part-demonic bloodline and pagan culture. She could still be a clone of some undisclosed woman, but Lucia's arc completes with Matier confirming that their bonds are deep even without blood relation and that her cultural ties to Dumary matter more than her origins as Arius's Secretary. Matier would probably still have a story about Sparda or it'd be in the background lore, but it'd be more important to establish Argosax as an outlier in Dumary's worship of demons and suggest that the pantheons of gods we know of are potentially demons in different guises with their own morals, goals, and whatnot, instead of a chaotically evil hivemind that only shows traits of nobility and loyalty whenever someone feels like writing it in.

DMC3 was also better without Dante in it because he was a poorly done protagonist and Lady had more stakes and a personal connection to the villain, so we'd be checking in on someone descended from the bloodline of a mortal/holy priestess, because her father is deluded over the priestess's history and her legacy. Arkham was clearly picking and choosing what parts of lore to go with, i.e. the Priestess was "sacrificed" so that Sparda could "become a legend", and he totally glossed over the fact that Sparda lived in the human world quietly and wasn't bleeding women out on altars just for kicks and relevancy.

DMC4 is ^drumroll* better without Dante in it! So, Nero-centric without any bloodline connection to Sparda, or an otherwise negligible one, like, 1/16th of his genes or less. The most notable form of Sparda's effects on Fortuna is the religious cult that still worships the guy. Have it be that the general populace is disillusioned about Sparda's presence and they only go to church out of habit or during special occasions, which triggers Sanctus's plot of "The Savior" and Agnus's cynical monologue about how humans come closer to believing in God only when they experience Hell. Nero is reluctantly sided with the Order because he agrees with their ideals of "killing demons" and he wants to make the town a safer place to live in, but he couldn't care less about their focus on "the Savior"/Sparda specifically. It could even be a personal dislike because the town suffered casualties from a demon invasion when Nero was a child, so he wants to restore his hometown's glory and prove that people can attain power and protect themselves without relying on God, as Sparda wasn't there to save the town when it was ravaged decades prior. Then he loses the use of his arm and he wrestles with whether that constitutes some type of divine punishment.

Barring making it an anthology focused on different characters around the world, if I had to actually include all the characters in the games as we've seen them and edit their existing stories, I can probably wiggle some other plot out of them if not link to posts where I've talked about alternate character arcs.



Wait, that's the reason they gave? I thought he was constantly selling off his weapons to pay penance to Enzo because he considered himself responsible for the missing arm and tries to make it up to him even when Lady thinks Enzo is abusing that connection. Same with him putting his money into the bank accounts of Grue's daughters to make up for the fact that he indirectly got their dad killed-- that would be enough to justify his debt in a twisted utilitarian(?) perspective (he can get money back, not people's lives, so being in debt and suffering temporary hits to his own quality of life is preferable in comparison to getting allies maimed or killed)-- then the anime torpedoed sensibility in the nuts and portrayed Dante as incompetent with his money and his own job, to where he routinely causes massive collateral damage in the name of coolness.

Oh well, characterization marches on, I guess. I'll just be amused that by these writers' own logic, if Dante's "reason for fighting" is Vergil/Urizen/whatever and he "cares" enough about his brother to still fly into a rage at the mention of him, they just invalidated the whole of episode 10 of the anime and exposed Dante as OOC x 20 by having him call Modeus "pathetic" for his willingness to drop his pacifism in the name of avenging his recently murdered brother. Dante really had no room to talk there given he's much worse.

I really like you're synopsis of the DMC series. But the only thing I disagree with is DMC3 should not have Dante. I think he serves his purpose of the story how he fully accepts his demonic heritage. And doing the right thing to save the world from his brother's ambition to gain power, because he realized that's how his father Sparda stood for. Even if he's over-the-top with his character. And his personality pretty much forgivable, because he was about in his late teens early 20s.

Now, I personally don't mind Dante being on DMC 2. He just needs to be rewritten to give him a reason to be in the story. Hell, they could make a potential romance story with Lucia and Dante. That's just my 2¢. Other than that, good post!

 

[berto]

Wait, that's the reason they gave? I thought he was constantly selling off his weapons to pay penance to Enzo because he considered himself responsible for the missing arm and tries to make it up to him even when Lady thinks Enzo is abusing that connection.

This is something they said around the time the anime and 4 were releasing. It' was their incannon reason for why we don't see him using DA's from previous games. I guess because video games was not cutting it.

Same with him putting his money into the bank accounts of Grue's daughters to make up for the fact that he indirectly got their dad killed

That's from the DMC1 novel. A completely different writer did that so I'm sure it's another matter of different people doing different things with different mentalities for the character.

Dante really had no room to talk there given he's much worse.

I remember that. The other instance of disconnection was when he made some off comment to Pathy about being an orphan. Not because he said it and it was cruel but because to me it seemed to me like a simple P: I'm an orphan. D: So am I but you don't see me crying about it all day, would've been a simple solution.

This is why the writers should look over the novels, the manga, and the comics to get to know Dante before they write about him.

But they do. Seeing how many references 5 has should be hint enough that they're aware of the cannon. They'd still turn it into their interpretation of him. Change his priorities, his attitude about things. For example, what you mentioned:

Like how Dante struggled to accept his demonic heritage, because he has a traumatic childhood of seeing his mother getting killed by demons.

That wasn't really a thing in the original game. When the staff was working on DMC1 they asked the director what happened to Dante when he used his devil trigger, was it painful, maybe? The director said no, he's excited for it. Like a shot of adrenaline. Dante has always embraced his human side more, identifies as one, but he didn't start to deny his demonic one until later on in the series. If you think about it it's pretty standard for half characters to hate their 'dark' side. Blade hates being half vampire, Rayne, Inuyasha. They are all very much about that. It was more rare for Dante to not deny his, to not hate the part of him that was his father, but when you get someone else writing your character they'll probably change change it to meet with their interpretation of the character.

Just to mention this, and I've said it a few times, but when they changed the order of the games to what they have now it struck me that maybe we place more importance on the cannon than the people making the games. They said they changed it so as to have the events of DMC5 make sense but i saw nothing that required this revision.

 

[BlackAngel]

This is something they said around the time the anime and 4 were releasing. It' was their incannon reason for why we don't see him using DA's from previous games. I guess because video games was not cutting it.


That's from the DMC1 novel. A completely different writer did that so I'm sure it's another matter of different people doing different things with different mentalities for the character.


I remember that. The other instance of disconnection was when he made some off comment to Pathy about being an orphan. Not because he said it and it was cruel but because to me it seemed to me like a simple P: I'm an orphan. D: So am I but you don't see me crying about it all day, would've been a simple solution.


But they do. Seeing how many references 5 has should be hint enough that they're aware of the cannon. They'd still turn it into their interpretation of him. Change his priorities, his attitude about things. For example, what you mentioned:

That wasn't really a thing in the original game. When the staff was working on DMC1 they asked the director what happened to Dante when he used his devil trigger, was it painful, maybe? The director said no, he's excited for it. Like a shot of adrenaline. Dante has always embraced his human side more, identifies as one, but he didn't start to deny his demonic one until later on in the series. If you think about it it's pretty standard for half characters to hate their 'dark' side. Blade hates being half vampire, Rayne, Inuyasha. They are all very much about that. It was more rare for Dante to not deny his, to not hate the part of him that was his father, but when you get someone else writing your character they'll probably change change it to meet with their interpretation of the character.

Just to mention this, and I've said it a few times, but when they changed the order of the games to what they have now it struck me that maybe we place more importance on the cannon than the people making the games. They said they changed it so as to have the events of DMC5 make sense but i saw nothing that required this revision.

I understand. However in the manga, it's hinted that Dante forsake his demonic heritage, when confronting Vergil about him joining demons that killed their mother. Also, a demon possessed stuffed rabbit taunted Dante that if he embraced his demonic nature, his mother would've been saved. So it makes perfect sense that he doesn't want to embrace his demonic nature, because he's afraid if what he will become. Until later in DMC3 he embraced his demonic heritage, because he finally realized his father is a noble and selfless person.

And DMC1 takes place after DMC3, so he has embraced his demonic heritage by now. And he used the power of Sparda to defeat Mundus, and it can be interpreted how one should use ultimate power. To rule and dominate and unleash terror, for power, or for noble cause to fight for something bigger than themselves. I think that's how Dante and Vergil are different, when it comes to their heritage from their father's legacy.