[Theory] Vergil May Still Be Alive

[Chibi Dante]

Ever since I realised that Nelo Angelo was indeed Vergil, I have always had this voice in the back of my mind telling me he isn't dead. Mundus' implied that Nelo had failed him and that he had been defeated. If we recall, Griffon wasn't dead before Mundus killed him for his incapableness to defeat Dante. This means that Vergil could of indeed been alive also after his battle with Dante. We don't actually see Vergil's dead body either. Plus evidence supports he broke free from his corrupt state because The Order Of The Sword retrieved pieces of Nelo Angelo's armour and also Yamato. The Yamato sword would of been difficult to find if lost a long time ago, so if it were close to the pieces of the broken armour then we could also assume that the zweihander was a corrupted/altered form of Vergil's Yamato.

Also Mundus never once states to Dante when he confronts him that his brother is dead or anything of the sort. So it's quite possible to assume that perhaps after breaking from his corruption, Vergil became trapped somewhere within the demon world or was maybe spared by Mundus but further more corrupt and kept away to be used in the future as a secret weapon against Dante. But no mention of him actually dying was ever stated, so in those terms we can still assume he is alive.

Beautiful! You always think outside the box, LoD. Good to see you again, btw. You bring a lot of good points. We saw what Mundus did to Griffon. Mundus obliterated him. If Mundus truly gave Vergil the same treatment (like some members are saying), why was Nelo Angelo's armor still around? Mundus usually apprehends those that fail him right away too. It honestly looks like Vergil got away (After Dante defeated him). He disappeared in blue flames. That really didn't seem like a death to me. I'm thinking he was transported some place else. The possibilities are endless.

That's very true. The question is, will be he angry at Dante at all (if he returns)? It's not like any of this was his fault. He did try to save him from going into the Demon World. Dante was also emotionally impacted, and he didn't have a clue that Nelo Angelo was his brother until his amulet dropped. I would just like to see them have another heartwarming reunion. I'm sure Vergil missed him too... Dante was the only family he had left. They both demonstrated a very dysfunctional relationship of love and hate in DMC3. Hope we see more of that in DMC5...

 

[Dante Redgrave]

Again, with the recap info in DMC4 specifying him as "the soul of Dante's departed brother", not to mention how Dante said "that sword belonged to my brother", in the past tense, Capcom has been trying to push that after at least DMC1, Vergil was dead, either by Mundus post DMC3, or "freed" from his enslavement by Dante in DMC1, which was the impression I always got in fitting with the tragic undertone of the story in DMC1.

YoOu can play with certain things, like lack of a body, to loophole he could be alive in some form, but with what's there, you can also presume that he is dead.

 

[Valcorn]

He is dead folks, nothing to see here.

 

[Chibi Dante]

He is dead folks, nothing to see here.

If you're not going to contribute, can you please just go away?

 

[Dante Redgrave]

If you're not going to contribute, can you please just go away?

eh, we've tried that in the Nero theroy threads and threads about the DMC1 and 2 novels, he keeps spewing the same stock responses really over and over with double standards all over the place. While I hold that Vergil was catagorically dead as of DMC3 after his attempt to fight Mundus,. I do at least give that there are some loopholes for those who want to theorize how he MIGHT have still been alive. Capcom's pretty intent on putting Classic!Vergil 6 feet under though.

 

[Valcorn]

If you're not going to contribute, can you please just go away?

At least you nicely asked. I don't want to be an asshole, but at least to me, Capcom made it clear that he was gone.

 

[Lionheart]

Vergil isn't dead. When Dante finally defeated Nelo Angelo, he was transported back into the Demon World.

I don't want to kill your theory, as I really like it, but if he was transported back, how did his amulet fall to the ground for Dante to pick up? It should've transported with Vergil, right?

If you recall, when Vergil was corrupted, his blade also took a drastic change in appearance, and properties. Although it's still Yamato, it was no longer a katana, but rather, a black zweihänder. If you notice, Yamato is no longer in the state it was when held by Nelo Angelo. It was only in that state when Vergil was controlled by Mundus

Who said Nero Angelo's zweihänder was Yamato? I mean, people assume it is Yamato, but did the game say it was Yamato too? The Yamato could've just snapped in two the moment Vergil was defeated by Mundus after DMC3.

This is also evident when you read the description of Bionic Angelo enemies: "Made with fragments from the Dark Angel." Nelo Angelo IS known as "The Dark Angel". This means that the Order of the Sword retrieved broken pieces of the armor.

Maybe. But they could've also meant that the Bianco Angelo and the Gladius were created by using fragments of Vergil's soul. It could mean anything. Besides, there are so many Bianco Angelos and Gladiuses, so how can they all be made out of pieces of his armor? Must've been armor the size of a small planet, then.



Also, since Yamato is with Nero now, I think the Sparda sword could probably be Vergil's new weapon of choice. Maybe he could steal it from Dante or something. Not gonna lie, it'd be pretty awesome to see him wield it. After all, he did wield Force Edge. I'm pretty sure he'd put it to good use too. In DMC4, it was in the hands of a wrinkly old fart, lol. If Vergil can't have the sword, he'll have to find a way to get his trusty katana back.

I have to admit, that's a great idea. He always wanted to be more like Sparda, so it would make sense if he went after the Sparda sword, if only to add it to his collection

 

[LordOfDarkness]

Mundus does usually deal with those in which 'fail' him in a quick fashion. However, perhaps due to the corruption seeming to be broken then maybe Mundus was unable to summon Nelo Angelo to him and therefore unable to kill him. And also we could speculate that if the corruption was a play on Vergil's soul all along, the fragments of Nelo Angelo were possibly made up from the darkest parts of Vergil's soul. And Vergil was placed within this 'shell' in order for Mundus to maintain and keep control over him.

Also we have to see that Mundus did not have complete control over Vergil's soul or body. This is evident when Nelo Angelo sees Dante's half of the amulet that their mother had given to them when they were children. If Mundus had complete control over Vergil, then seeing this probably would of made little to no difference to him and he probably would of continued to attack Dante. However he does not and instead he seems to 'teleport' away from the scene, probably because Vergil was probably not completely lost inside of the 'shell' he was forced into. Mundus simply put Vergil's mind and body into another body, a body of armour that did his bidding. But you have to remember, Mundus was dealing with a son of Sparda. Sparda being the toughest demon he had come to face in his time whilst in power as the demon overlord. So Mundus wasn't just corrupting any ordinary demon and perhaps knew himself that Nelo Angelo would fail him. Maybe he overlooked the thought that due to Vergil's apparent strength and resistance that Vergil could even break free from his shackles. But nonetheless, the armour breaking off and Yamato being retrieved in two pieces would assume that Nelo Angelo is indeed dead. Vergil however remains a mystery, but something tells me with these thoughts that he is not dead.

And regarding Vergil's half of the amulet falling into Dante's hands. We could just assume that the amulet dropped down because in story terms it is how Dante realises that he was actually fighting his brother all along. Also not to mention that with the two pieces of the amulet the true form of the Force Edge would be released, which is the Sparda sword. Therefore Dante could take the form of their father, the legendary dark knight Sparda. And who is to say that Vergil didn't drop it on purpose? I mean amulets go around your neck right? Vergil could of easily of taken it off before teleporting or disappearing. He would of known from his first encounter with Mundus that he could not live up to his father's legacy at that time. And that encounter would probably make him more power hungry, knowing that he failed. But remember, one thing Vergil always wanted power for was to protect the ones he loved. Dante is the only family he has left (that we know of) and him leaving his amulet behind could of been his signal to Dante that he was protecting him. Vergil wanted his brother to finish the job because he knew he couldn't, at least not then.

If Vergil returned he would be in two mind sets. He would be in huge debt to his brother for freeing him from Mundus' tight grasp. And secondly, he would further want to seek ultimate power because of what had happened to him. So in a way it seems more than likely that Vergil will repeat the whole DMC 3 thing all over again in the future and the only one to tell him he is wrong would again be Dante. But, then again, he could learn from his mistakes and finally accept that the only way he can achieve ultimate power would be to join forces with his brother and learn to trust him and get along instead of wanting to seek power independently. Vergil's character and characteristics could change a drastic amount than to how we all know him to be within the Devil May Cry Universe (DmC excluded).

All I have to finally say is that if Vergil wasn't such a key character or a fan pleaser to us then why else would he be in DmC? He was always a key part of the story, crucially. His involvement was needed and he really did make a lot of the story that we all know and love. I've seen people say that DMC 2 didn't have a great story or that it wasn't a great game, and fair enough that's their opinion. I have also seen people state that they weren't really into DMC 4 when it came out, and a lot of people hated Nero much like they did with DmC Dante to begin with. And yeah, things changed over time, people came to terms with Nero more and some even grew to like/love him or whatever. But the simple point being, we all seem to rate Devil May Cry 1 and Devil May Cry 3 as being the better games within the series. And those two games both had Vergil in them and those games created those Vergil fans. And if those games are so loved, with Vergil being quite a lot to do with the story, then surely it's not a good idea to write/kill him off from the series when he helped to make it successful in the first place. Think about it.

 

[meg5493]

I like to think that when it comes to 2 that its sort of like a alternate universe to 1 after 1 the series branchs of into 2 universes one where Dante seals Mundas back into the demon world and escapes the island with Trish (4) and one where Nelo Angelo is able to kill Dante but breaks free of Mundas's control realizing what he's done seals Mundas away and pretends to be Dante (2) I mean I go either way with the series but I personally like the idea of DMC2 Dante actually being Vergil because it could be a reason he's more silent in 2 and at the end in his office you can see that the shop isn't as flashy and has books and files and seems more organized then past shops. I would love if Capcom did something like this I mean it would be interesting to see how it goes but then again I like Dante2 more than Dante4

 

[Lionheart]

Maybe he overlooked the thought that due to Vergil's apparent strength and resistance that Vergil could even break free from his shackles. But nonetheless, the armour breaking off and Yamato being retrieved in two pieces would assume that Nelo Angelo is indeed dead. Vergil however remains a mystery, but something tells me with these thoughts that he is not dead.

With Yamato broken in half, I'd say it signifies that Vergil is dead. If he were alive, he would come after the sword and restore it, which he could've done if he were trapped in the demon world, too. Unless the Yamato flew out of hell on its own. But I'd guess some of the Order of the Sword's guys went into hell through one of the smaller hell gates (as they had opened one in Mitis Forest, when Nero got attacked) and retrieved Yamato (since Yamato was floating in a stasis field in Agnus's lab).

And who is to say that Vergil didn't drop it on purpose? I mean amulets go around your neck right? Vergil could of easily of taken it off before teleporting or disappearing. He would of known from his first encounter with Mundus that he could not live up to his father's legacy at that time. And that encounter would probably make him more power hungry, knowing that he failed. But remember, one thing Vergil always wanted power for was to protect the ones he loved. Dante is the only family he has left (that we know of) and him leaving his amulet behind could of been his signal to Dante that he was protecting him. Vergil wanted his brother to finish the job because he knew he couldn't, at least not then.

Last you saw Nero Angelo, he actually did wear his half of the amulet around his neck, so he couldn't have dropped it on purpose while it was around his neck. Especially since you can see him grabbing his head and twisting in pain before being engulfed in flames.

I like your ideas, though, and I hope Capcom somehow does make this work.

 

[Cabbage Detective]

[quote="Chibi Dante, post: 477738, member: if Nelo Angelo wasn't physically Vergil, what's this?



[/quote]
It was Wesker :troll:

 

[LordOfDarkness]

With Yamato broken in half, I'd say it signifies that Vergil is dead. If he were alive, he would come after the sword and restore it, which he could've done if he were trapped in the demon world, too. Unless the Yamato flew out of hell on its own. But I'd guess some of the Order of the Sword's guys went into hell through one of the smaller hell gates (as they had opened one in Mitis Forest, when Nero got attacked) and retrieved Yamato (since Yamato was floating in a stasis field in Agnus's lab).

Last you saw Nero Angelo, he actually did wear his half of the amulet around his neck, so he couldn't have dropped it on purpose while it was around his neck. Especially since you can see him grabbing his head and twisting in pain before being engulfed in flames.

I like your ideas, though, and I hope Capcom somehow does make this work.

If you think about it, coming to the end of Devil May Cry 1, Mallet Island is closing in on itself. Mallet Island is where the Hell gate opens for Mundus to escape, so when the Island collapses it's more than likely closing itself back into the Underworld. In thinking this I assume that Vergil fell into the Underworld also, but his sword did separate from him somehow. So really Capcom have to answer what happened to Vergil when he entered the demon World. How did Yamato leave his side and maybe he wasn't strong enough to restore it? Maybe he is weakened now or perhaps enslaved in Hell? Who knows, the possible ideas could be many.

The last time we see Dante face Nelo Angelo, he isn't wearing his helmet. We are actually seeing Vergil's face, but you can see his eyes are red to signafy that he is corrupted. It isn't until a few seconds after a blast of light that we see the amulet drop. This could give Vergil plenty of time to drop the amulet. Plus to me it looks like a lot of energy is leaving Nelo Angelo when you have defeated him, not that he is being engulfed in flames. Perhaps this is to show the corruption departing him.

Also in regards to the Yamato being refered to as the sword of Dante's departed brother. To be departed does not simply mean dead. I may depart from my loved one or a train may depart from the station. The word can also mean 'to leave'. Vergil did depart from Dante in terms that he was corrupted, and Dante hadn't seen him in his original state for over ten years. That's quite a departure, but does not necessarily mean to say 'that means Vergil is dead".

 

[Stylish Nero]

Regarding the black zweihander Nero Angelo used, it's actually NOT really the Yamato, DMC3:SE only did that for the visual effect. So Yamato was somewhere for the ten years that Vergil's soul was enslaved in the Angelo armor. Also, Capcom pretty much out and out said that Vergil was dead as of his fight with Mundus during the recap info on DMC4, it specified that Nero Angelo wasn't physically Vergil, but his entrapped soul.

But what about the DMC1 novel/manga that shows Gilver (Vergil indisguise apparently)....or whatever his name was using and holding and using Yamato or a katana that looked like Yamato.

Unless if the mangas are non-canon.

I'm not even just talking about DMC3 to DMC1 now. I'm just refering to DMC1 and its manga when Kamiya first made them. So regardless if DMC3 happened or not, Vergil had had Yamato even after he worked for/was possessed by Mundus which is funny since Gilver/Vergil didn't show much hints of being possessed and if he was he sure as hell didn't behave like his Nelo Angelo self in DMC1. I mean Gilver was pretty talkative compared to his braindead knight self in DMC1 as Nelo Angelo and even a bit more socialable than DMC3 Vergil (although it wasn't much and it led to people either being scared sh*tless or diced and sliced....unless if they were Dante/Tony) nor was his eyes glowing red. Heck the manga even mentions he was wearing Nelo Angelo's armor and he was even referred to as Nelo Angelo once in the story of the novel.

Either Gilver is a random dude using Yamato or Vergil, I mean Gilver is a respelling/reordering of Vergil and not a clever one (take the GIL in VerGIL and put it in the front.....Gilver).

When did the DMC1 novel/manga even takes place at? I knew it was before DMC1 but didn't the ending hint at/alluded to DMC2?

But then again we don't have to worry about that since DMC3 basically wrote/contradicted the DMC1 novel out of DMC canon.

 

[Dante Redgrave]

But what about the DMC1 novel/manga that shows Gilver (Vergil indisguise apparently)....or whatever his name was using and holding and using Yamato or a katana that looked like Yamato.

It specifies him using a katana, yes, because preprod art for vergil did give him a katana. Even though vergil never appeared as himself in DMC1, there were ideas for him.

Unless if the mangas are non-canon.

Capcom says they are still canon for the DMC3 Mangas.

I'm not even just talking about DMC3 to DMC1 now. I'm just refering to DMC1 and its manga when Kamiya first made them. So regardless if DMC3 happened or not, Vergil had had Yamato even after he worked for/was possessed by Mundus which is funny since Gilver/Vergil didn't show much hints of being possessed and if he was he sure as hell didn't behave like his Nelo Angelo self in DMC1. I mean Gilver was pretty talkative compared to his braindead knight self in DMC1 as Nelo Angelo and even a bit more socialable than DMC3 Vergil (although it wasn't much and it led to people either being scared sh*tless or diced and sliced....unless if they were Dante/Tony) nor was his eyes glowing red. Heck the manga even mentions he was wearing Nelo Angelo's armor and he was even referred to as Nelo Angelo once in the story of the novel.

The novel references him transforming into black armor, but it never details it much, and he is never called "Nelo/Nero Angelo", That was in fact a reference in the SECOND novel regard the alternate universe version of Vergil who essentially switched places with his brother and became HUmanities hero while Dante was taken by Mundus and probably dead.

Either Gilver is a random dude using Yamato or Vergil, I mean Gilver is a respelling/reordering of Vergil and not a clever one (take the GIL in VerGIL and put it in the front.....Gilver).

Yeah, it was Vergil, since he had the amulet that vanished along with him when Dante beat him.

When did the DMC1 novel/manga even takes place at? I knew it was before DMC1 but didn't the ending hint at/alluded to DMC2?

The novel takes place before DMC1 in an indetermined time before. because of how lose the continuity and timeline there was, though Tony hangs out in the bars, they never detail his outfit nor what his sword edge looks like. So though the art shows DMC1 Dante with Force Edge, you can also imagine that it was infact some version of DMC3 Dante with Rebellion. Which places his age areound 17 to 18 in the novel since he's 19 in DMC3. The epilogue was a direct lead into DMC1, with trish breaking in to the office.

But then again we don't have to worry about that since DMC3 basically wrote/contradicted the DMC1 novel out of DMC canon.

No, acually it didn't, because Dante outright says they met at least once a year prior. the DMC manga was later written to cover that event, but that covers when Dante knew it was Vergil. DMC volume 1 easily could fall any time before DMC3 manga's events, because when Dante saw Vergil, he double takes, like he knew that face even though it had been ten over ten years since Vergil vanished after their mother's death. That hints at their meeting as Tony and Gilver.
Before he left Capcom, between DMC3 and 4, Kamiya actually noted that despite some conflicts due to different writers, the manga and the Novels at the time STILL are considered part of the canon, and the Anime makes direct reference to Dante's days as Tony.

 

[Stylish Nero]

No, acually it didn't, because Dante outright says they met at least once a year prior. the DMC manga was later written to cover that event, but that covers when Dante knew it was Vergil. DMC volume 1 easily could fall any time before DMC3 manga's events, because when Dante saw Vergil, he double takes, like he knew that face even though it had been ten over ten years since Vergil vanished after their mother's death. That hints at their meeting as Tony and Gilver.
Before he left Capcom, between DMC3 and 4, Kamiya actually noted that despite some conflicts due to different writers, the manga and the Novels at the time STILL are considered part of the canon, and the Anime makes direct reference to Dante's days as Tony.

So if that was the case.......wouldn't that mean even by DMC1 Trish's statement implying Vergil dying at age 8 wasn't technically true or Kamiya and Capcom reached a new compromise to redact that.

Also, how can Vergil/Gilver before DMC3 activate the Nelo Angelo armor and display this ability in DMC3 and its manga (would be useful when Dante slashed him at the waist).

How come Dante is wearing his DMC1 outfit but if the DMC1 novel is before DMC3 so why he isn't he wearing it there?

Ahhhh...forget I need to see this novel for myself (basing it on reviews/summaries). Is it an actual novel/book or some sort of manga? I don't mind reading books but if I can't find a hard/physical copy that I can read in my hands I might lose interest. I'm currently reading the DMC3 manga.

 

[VineBigBoss]

No, acually it didn't, because Dante outright says they met at least once a year prior. the DMC manga was later written to cover that event, but that covers when Dante knew it was Vergil. DMC volume 1 easily could fall any time before DMC3 manga's events, because when Dante saw Vergil, he double takes, like he knew that face even though it had been ten over ten years since Vergil vanished after their mother's death. That hints at their meeting as Tony and Gilver.
Before he left Capcom, between DMC3 and 4, Kamiya actually noted that despite some conflicts due to different writers, the manga and the Novels at the time STILL are considered part of the canon, and the Anime makes direct reference to Dante's days as Tony.

I don't think the manga can be taken as canon because it was never finished, and mostly gives us a considerable different interpretation on some characters. Like Vergil slaying humans who attempts to stole Yamato, this makes no sense from his "warrior code" point of view, Vergil only fights worthy opponents or slay demons that got in his way, he would not bother slaying weak humans that way as he could put them to sleep with no effort at all. A cinematic that kinda prove this to us is even considering all the trouble Lady had caused in Temen-ni-gru, he just pass walking her in the library, without even made his presence aware, and when he were fighting Dante he could easily killed her too; i think that Vergil has a honor-code regarding killing humans in battle and by the most it's shown in DMC3 as he not raise his sword in a serious manner to Lady in both occasions.

And the novels are mostly non-canon too, as DMC3 overlaps the first one changing all that Gilver thing and introducing a new plot between the twins. I mean, the first volume from the novel ends with the beggining of DMC1 and we can assume that DMC3 ends very close to DMC1 events.

EDIT: For the time, i think that only the games should be taken in consideration when talking about DMC plot and world, as the games are kinda the "final word" of how things happen (considering that DMC is a videogame series in the first place, i mean). But still, i think that the mangas and novels could have introduced cool ideas that could be used to expand furthermore the plot and story for DMC

 

[Valcorn]

Of course DMC3 manga isn't canon, neither DMC1 novel, it contradicts a lot of things, I once even made a list. The major change especially is that in the manga when Arkham's wife is still alive, he already is a demon for example, don't tell me something can be canon while contradicting lot of things.

 

[Stylish Nero]

Of course DMC3 manga isn't canon, neither DMC1 novel, it contradicts a lot of things, I once even made a list. The major change especially is that in the manga when Arkham's wife is still alive, he already is a demon for example, don't tell me something can be canon while contradicting lot of things.

Geez its like every otehr manga/novels contradict the overall main canon. The only one that doesn't is the DMC2 manga (but that one was about an alternate dimension and made no sense...on its own but it didn't contradict any DMC game.....I can think of).

 

[V's patron]

I would probably say Vergil is still alive but as a ghost with no body as his body was destroyed along time ago when he went against Mundus the first time.

So if he is posessing nero like people say he is, the reason why he hasnt taken control is that his soul could be too weak from the trauma of getting his body destroyed countless times.