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The Problem With Devil May Cry

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As said many times, I don't think a reboot is necessary as such... However, the past series is quite a mess storyline-wise. I doubt that one game could wrap it all up so it all made sense. And yes, Capcom is to blame for making such a mess out of the storyline.

Instead of seeing the reboot as a replacement of the past series, see it as an opportunity to see the story from another's point of view - NT's iteration of it. They tell the story their way with their own changes and such which will hopefully be alot more coherent and make more sense.

A reboot wasn't a necessity, no... but another game of the main series isn't a necessity either. It would probably just add to the messy pile that is the storyline... Heck, I wouldn't even call it a story-line, seeing as there are no straight line running through the series.
 
I guess as fans we expect continuity in a piece of IP like DMC, and that is not given because over the years staff come and go and new people are brought in to work on things. When you think about it, DMC1 was never intended as a trilogy or a lengthy series... it was a by-product of Resident Evil and they didn't know if it was going to be successful or not, evidenced by the fact a completely new team was brought in to make DMC2 and they made it quite different, not anticipating the audience's expectations. But many fans of 1 were disappointed with the standard of 2 after 1 having set the precedent. I don't think at any point CAPCOM really sat down to create some continuity in the DMC series at all... not compared to some of their other franchises! I think it's always been a game they knew was successful but that they didn't have a consistent team for and kept changing it. I think DMC suffers a bit as a result of that chopping-and-changing attitude within CAPCOM.

But what I don't understand is this - DMC series is quite a popular series from what I can tell, and CAPCOM surely know the numbers better than we do. Perhaps not quite as popular as their others like RE or SF etc. but popular enough to be considered 'important' and a good money-spinner. Why then can't they get some consistency in it and get to grips with the issues within the canon that have and are still bugging people so much? Why insist on changing it so dramatically each time? I can't tell if they try to cater to an audience or whether they just put hands over their ears and get the wacky baccy out to come up with the next installment. Seems like CAPCOM have been bored of Dante since 4 and have been looking for ways to have him quietly usurped that the 'fans would like', but the vast majority of fans love Dante, and not so much Nero or this new guy they're calling Dante. From what I can see, a lot fans want more Dante, because Dante is DMC, and they don't appreciate him being deconstructed and remade to some new idea of what's 'cool'.

And at the same time CAPCOM are kind of saying the fans should be more trusting and enthusiastic, when they've never explained Nero properly, or accounted for DMC2, or the drastic character personality changes in DMC4/3, and they keep telling us Dante is stale, boring and uncool, when it's pretty obvious they're grasping for the lowest common denominator here to get more foreign sales. DMC series began as a truly creative spurt, gathered speed and it's now becoming a cash vehicle because CAPCOM are all about adopting a Western business model overseas. I mean every business has to balance creativity with efficiency. But it seems to me nobody at the studio has ever had a clear notion of where DMC is going except maybe the guy that directed and created the first one and had the 'vision' in the first place. So the series and Dante's personality meanders to and fro like a drunk trying to get home.

They probably thought it a safe bet to call this new game a reboot in case it doesn't take off. And with their former track record, it wouldn't be a shock for them to even re-reinvent Dante again. But this is definitely ruining it for me. I don't want the same thing over and over, but I want a happy medium. It's possible to have a consistent character star in a series of engrossing games and different adventures without having him be half-replaced by other people or redressed for the oh-so-fashion-conscious youth of today. I could hardly believe that stuff NT came out with about Dante's appearance, as if people played the series because of Dante's dress-sense. Please. Dante never exactly looked like he belonged in this world, and would look cool hanging out on a street corner here because he belongs in a fictional world, in a game. The existing IP rides on Dante, our recognition and approval of Dante... so in this sense they just want to have their cake and eat it too - to take advantage of the established name, reputation and fanbase of the IP and yet redress/retcon it for a newer, younger, 'hipper' audience? Not to mention you can see what they're up to with U/MvC3. And Resident Evil these days. Goodbye survival horror, hello generic FPS Call of Doody w/zombies. Why're the big consoles getting the RE shooter and the handhelds getting the older-style RE stuff? $$$, that's why. The stuff truer to the original IP and the things the original fans love is taking the backseat to the stuff that Western audiences typically can't get enough of, apparently.

In short, whatever excuse CAPCOM gives us for the change, I'm fairly sure it's not about creativity so much as money. I.e. more of it, and Dante himself is practically entirely expendable in this regard. As we can see.
 
I cannot answer your questions, but I do think Capcom is trying to be more "mainstream" and is "going with the times of what is popular here and now" with the recent games they've made, such as Resident Evil and now also Devil May Cry with the upcoming reboot. Shooters are in, survival horrors are out, so instead of making a whole new game, they turned the RE franchise around that corner. And I do believe something alike is happening with the DMC series with this reboot... Old Dante is out, so they remake him along with the story so it is more "in".

I do like the changes they have made, but that does not mean I dislike the old Dante. It would be kinda cool if Capcom simply started over with the series, telling the story from the beginning and had some consistency along the way, filling out the holes, buuuuut that will never happen. So instead we get a game where they start over and make it an "alternate universe" - an alternate version of Dante and his story.

No, it is not the optimal thing to do, that I agree with. And yes, Capcom is most probably doing this to reach out to the younger audience by seeming "hip" and have them buy the game so they can get more money. I'm not saying it is like that, I'm just saying that the possibility is definately there.

That said though... I still think it looks cool so far and I am rather excited to see where they are going with this.
But I have already said that many times and I am just going in circles by repeating it, I know... :P
 
After your posts, it has lead me to a personal conclusion that capcom thinks that many people who buy their games are just stupid mindless consumers that would go with anything "hip" so they just make it have awesome graphics and and give it a story that idiots would be interested in and call it a "game" again a personal opinion and no referal to anyone whatsoever.
 
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I'm not happy with the original series in story telling nor with a reboot cause it was never needed if capcom was not lazy to tell us pretty much everything.Look at DMC 4 and just what an uproar it caused with it's "similarity" to DMC3.
But this in fact is most games these days.I know 2 games that started good and ended in hell.They did not get a reboot but rather just totally not the same related to their previous titles.
It's sad but yeah.DMC went there too.the place of"start good end bad".If the story of DmC fails hardly anyone's going to buy it but still will.
 
I won't stone you to death if you promise to not stone me to death for saying this;

Honestly, I really don't get the people who say that a reboot is necessary because the story was going nowhere. Hey guess what kids, that's called being uncreative and cheap. Maybe I just love writing to much, but I find it incredibly easy to tie everything together and have it make sense, so the fact Capcom isn't even trying and instead just saying "eff it" and rebooting it means they are lazy and stupid. Even if they did try to explain everything and then gave up that still makes them uncreative. For shame.

And since when was NT good at storytelling anyway? Even if you liked the story of Enslaved you have to admit the ending was overly cliched. That's not good storytelling to me. That's being cheap. (And the fact that Pigsy was sexist doesn't help NT's cause either. >_<)

And another thing that's been on my mind lately. To all the people that want this reboot and think its necessary/beneficial/preferable to the original series I have to ask: how many of you actually wanted a reboot prior to it being announced? I don't mean to be rude, but it all seems strange that I never heard anyone say they think Capcom- or anyone really- should reboot the story until it happened. I never saw anyone say the story is going nowhere and they should just start over. No, I saw plenty of people coming up with theories and story lines for future DMC games that act as a sequel to the original series. It wasn't until a reboot was announced that I saw anyone say anything about how a reboot is a good thing.

That wasn't aimed at you, DS. I just quoted your post because it reminded me of all the stuff I had been thinking about. Don't hurt me! :(

I'm not gonna hurt you since we are cool and i kind of agree with you about not necessarily needing a reboot. It is only one of the two options available since a revamp could happen and be just as good a attempt to making the series better story wise. You could even get western talent since the comic book licensing rights for the franschise were bought be wildstorm which was a imprint for DC and the writer for marvel vs capcom was a comic book writer for marvel. And that guy made me actually like Dante again so they werent out of options.
 
I won't stone you to death if you promise to not stone me to death for saying this;

Honestly, I really don't get the people who say that a reboot is necessary because the story was going nowhere. Hey guess what kids, that's called being uncreative and cheap. Maybe I just love writing to much, but I find it incredibly easy to tie everything together and have it make sense, so the fact Capcom isn't even trying and instead just saying "eff it" and rebooting it means they are lazy and stupid. Even if they did try to explain everything and then gave up that still makes them uncreative. For shame.

And since when was NT good at storytelling anyway? Even if you liked the story of Enslaved you have to admit the ending was overly cliched. That's not good storytelling to me. That's being cheap. (And the fact that Pigsy was sexist doesn't help NT's cause either. >_<)

And another thing that's been on my mind lately. To all the people that want this reboot and think its necessary/beneficial/preferable to the original series I have to ask: how many of you actually wanted a reboot prior to it being announced? I don't mean to be rude, but it all seems strange that I never heard anyone say they think Capcom- or anyone really- should reboot the story until it happened. I never saw anyone say the story is going nowhere and they should just start over. No, I saw plenty of people coming up with theories and story lines for future DMC games that act as a sequel to the original series. It wasn't until a reboot was announced that I saw anyone say anything about how a reboot is a good thing.

That wasn't aimed at you, DS. I just quoted your post because it reminded me of all the stuff I had been thinking about. Don't hurt me! :(

I don't have stones...I do have fluffy bunnies though! >:3

The story was going nowhere, in Capcom's hands. Whether the fans are able to iron out the story themselves is irrelevant, considering how fussy Capcom is with what they want. They probably couldn't agree on how to answer the fans' questions so they decided meh, let's keep them guessing and dish out a completely new, completely out there game for the franchise (and I'm referring to DMC4, not DmC). I sometimes wonder if it might be a marketing gimmick - give the fans a game, but leave them wanting more. I mean if you look at it, every one of the games in DMC can act as stand-alone games. They don't depend on the previous game. Maybe Capcom has given up on the series a long time ago, which is why they don't care about fixing the story and why none of the games really tie in with each other, but they figured, there still is a fanbase so they might as well cash in while they can.

Anyway, I've never played any of NT's games myself, so I can't give a verdict on whether I like their games. But then I feel I don't need to play it because I know the people on their DmC team are incredibly talented and incredibly good at what they do. They are by no means incompetent, it's just a pity Capcom told them to re-do the whole DMC and Dante concept. As for clichés...I dunno, I always thought Devil May Cry was ridiculously cliché, so I don't have much of an issue with that.

As for the reboot thing, I never thought about it in reboot terms. I just wanted a new DMC game, so I'm fairly happy that I'm getting what I wanted. I think a reboot is beneficial for the series and I still stand by what I said, that a reboot was necessary. It gives the series a new direction that (touch wood) won't become stale and predictable after the third game thereafter. I'll admit, I didn't think back then that a reboot was necessary, it's only now that I can see that it was needed. All I remember from a year or so ago was how a multitude of fans were in agreement that Dante should be replaced or cut out of the story, there were debates about why Nero (or even Vergil) could substitute for Dante, flame wars erupted when some fans said that the series could do without Dante vs the fans who believed Dante IS devil may cry. The only talk there was about Dante was negative - he's stale, he's getting boring, he's got no purpose in the series (and I'm not sucking these things out of the air, I remember those discussions like it was yesterday) Whine, whine, whine, you know? So what does Capcom do? They keep Dante but BUTCHER his character - and voila, the WHOLE fanbase is reunited (in which case, well done Capcom!/dry) because, who cares if 'old' Dante WAS going stale NOW, they changed his entire character, OMG*warface*bring out the torches and boycott this game *raawwwwrrr*!!!!!!!!!!

Anyway, I'm gonna stick to what I believe, and I believe a reboot was necessary.
Just... not this specific reboot. I would have preferred them to at least, if anything, keep Dante looking the same, with Mr.Langdon doing his mo-cap and VO. The gameplay, the music, the new gritty environment, the concepts they seem to be running with (the half angel part excluded here), I absolutely L.O.V.E. But I HATE the new look for Dante just as much as the next fan. Still, I'm going to give this game a chance. Maybe new Dante will grow on me, maybe not, it won't change the fact that I am and always will be smitten with the white-haired cocky Dante from the previous games.

In all fairness, I don't think that anyone here who is being optimistic about DmC and who is looking forward to it, is 100% pleased with it so far. Logically, we're all fans of the previous series and our love for the original series will carry across to the new game via our likes and dislikes. Just because we like what we see in DmC doesn't mean we suddenly hate the previous games. I mean, really. /end fangirl ramble
 
I don't have stones...I do have fluffy bunnies though! >:3

bb1.gif


Just kidding! XD
Your posts are always so entertaining to read! XD

While I don't think a reboot was necessary at all (if I can come up with a way to tie the games together then Capcom sure as hell can) I'll admit if the look at feel of DMC was kept the same (including Dante's look), but instead they just started the story over then I'd be pumped UP for it. A new DMC game? *squeeeee!!!!!!* But! Instead we got this reboot thing that looks by golly terrible even as an original game. Oh sure its not out yet, but given NT's track records I'm not expecting much. Heck I probably won't even play it because I don't have money to spend on games that don't interest me one bit.

So put simply, a DMC reboot I'm not against, its just this reboot that just looks so fugly that I don't like even as an original game. Oh well.

*thinks*

Ooooh, a reboot DMC that keeps Dante the same, but with a new story? *daydreams*

!!!!!

I just came up with a new story idea!!! :eek:

*runs away flailing arms*
 
im going to tell u what i think nothing more. first of all even if the game needed a reboot why the drastic change thats because they are not making a devil may cry game they are making a NT game(think about that for a sec) forcing there ideas on a will established franchise
2- why mess with the good stuff (if its not broken dont fix it) fix the things that needs fixing not the best things about the game
most importantly if u want to make somthing better u give to ppl who can do it better than u i mean what did NT do to make capcom think that they would do abetter job i think capcom didnt have devil may cry on there agenda(for another 3years atleast) so they thought whats the worst that could happen and Nt (as i said in another topic) would take all the financial risk and give capcom an amount of their of the prophet(if theirs any) from business point of view i would say what the hell i will take credit if its good if not i will blame NT
the thing is im looking at this from a businesses point of view(force of habit) i dont think its a creative thing or doing something better NT just wants to shine through DMC(they kinda did i never heard of NT before this) thats it
thats what i think any way and it fits it explains every thing
lexy i didnot see ur post before i agree with u as u can see
 
I'm only excited to see Dante's story and new attitude cause well.to admit.Dante in DMC4 ****ed me off greatly.That's all i gotta say.already said my points.
 
I don't have stones...I do have fluffy bunnies though! >:3

Anyway, I've never played any of NT's games myself, so I can't give a verdict on whether I like their games. But then I feel I don't need to play it because I know the people on their DmC team are incredibly talented and incredibly good at what they do. They are by no means incompetent, it's just a pity Capcom told them to re-do the whole DMC and Dante concept. As for clichés...I dunno, I always thought Devil May Cry was ridiculously cliché, so I don't have much of an issue with that

i dont get it u say u never played a NT game then how can u say "their DmC team are incredibly talented and incredibly good at what they do"?
and i think devil may cry is any thing but cliché dmc started the whole hack and slash gender and the story is unique in its own way the story telling maybe weak but the base is interesting and dante with hes kiss my ass smart ass remarks and over the top personalty was a first i dont know how u can call it cliché
 
Honestly, I really don't get the people who say that a reboot is necessary because the story was going nowhere.
You don't get us?....well every new DMC game just brought new holes in the plot....now tell me it didn't.
And none of us ever thought of reboot because we didn't think Capcom could make such radical move and refresh the series, only one more game with the "old" story is needed to fill many holes in the story they made by introducing "Nero" (oh I hate that guy he wasn't necessary at all).
And DMC4 with that cliche love story............that isn't DMC.....just imagine Nero screaming KYRIEEEE.....
 
You don't get us?....well every new DMC game just brought new holes in the plot....now tell me it didn't.
And none of us ever thought of reboot because we didn't think Capcom could make such radical move and refresh the series, only one more game with the "old" story is needed to fill many holes in the story they made by introducing "Nero" (oh I hate that guy he wasn't necessary at all).
And DMC4 with that cliche love story............that isn't DMC.....just imagine Nero screaming KYRIEEEE.....
Well if you take what I said out of context it sounds idiotic which is just what you did. :p If you look at the paragraph in its entirety like so;

Honestly, I really don't get the people who say that a reboot is necessary because the story was going nowhere. Hey guess what kids, that's called being uncreative and cheap. Maybe I just love writing to much, but I find it incredibly easy to tie everything together and have it make sense, so the fact Capcom isn't even trying and instead just saying "eff it" and rebooting it means they are lazy and stupid. Even if they did try to explain everything and then gave up that still makes them uncreative. For shame.
You'll see I wasn't saying the series didn't have plot holes, I was saying it would be soooo easy to fill them up and explain everything instead of doing what Capcom did and go the reboot route, aka the cheap route.

:p:p:p:p
 
i dont get it u say u never played a NT game then how can u say "their DmC team are incredibly talented and incredibly good at what they do"?
and i think devil may cry is any thing but cliché dmc started the whole hack and slash gender and the story is unique in its own way the story telling maybe weak but the base is interesting and dante with hes kiss my ass smart ass remarks and over the top personalty was a first i dont know how u can call it cliché
If you read what Subject 64432B said two posts ago, you'll see where the cliché comes into play.
Plus, Dante's 'smart-ass' remarks are overused and dorky. They're oneliners that we've all heard in some shape or form somewhere else. Maybe it's just me but I found him to be a whole lot more witty and funny in DMC4. He annoyed the crap out of me in DMC3 with his lame remarks (which is why I played the game with the sound off :3)
And as I mentioned before, I know a couple of guys on the team so I'm not tooting NT's horn with no backup on why. I'll leave it at that.

@Meg....lol... what can you do but laugh, right?
 
I forgot what Dante's move was when he spins the guns in the air but i noticed they made it done upwards now.
 
Ikr.Go check the gameplay trailer that is 1:03 mins long and scroll at 0:47.I could not believe my eyes when i saw that.
 
People can say what they want about Dante's new look... but the gameplay looks freaking awesome! My faith in NT stays true... I knew they would make a great storyline, because that's what they do and what they are known for, but the gameplay looks pretty sweet too. Capcom and NT appears to have made a great partnerhood.
 
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