The Problem With Devil May Cry

[LordOfDarkness]

Okay, so I've had a lot of time to mull over people's comments as of late regarding Devil May Cry (No, seriously?) Of course, it's a Devil May Cry Forum. Anyway, several thoughts have come to my mind as of now and I thought I would post them up and tell people what I'm thinking.

I'll break my post down into several areas relating to DMC and the new DmC, so everyone can understand what it is I'm directly talking about. Aren't I helpful? Anyway, some of my points are based off from new things I've come to realise myself. Most things are based off of what I have come to realise from others. And what I will mention and relate to is another game that is going in the good old 'Reboot' direction, which is Tomb Raider.

I'll be examining the problem with Devil May Cry as a whole (Considering everything, including the Reboot).

Okay so to begin, I'll discuss...

Dante's Redesign

When I first saw Dante's redesign, I just sort of thought to myself "That doesn't look like Dante at all". I thought the idea wasn't great, but tried to keep optimistic. I hoped they'd change his design and touch up on it, and luckily they did. I thought to myself when I saw the new redesign, "He looks a lot better now". I was sort of happier and satisfied, but now I'm not so sure. It's still early stages and everyone is still going to be a bit sceptical about it. My concern lies in other people's points from comments they've made. At first I couldn't understand the full nature of the concern regarding Dante's new design, but I think I understand where they are coming from a little better now. My next point will explain why.

When I heard that Tomb Raider was getting a Reboot, I thought to myself "Oh, right." But you know, after looking at it, it wasn't so bad. I think the reason why is because they kept Lara looking the same. Even though they are clearly changing the game-play (Because now it's more about survival) and changing the story (So I believe), they still kept her the same. I mean, it's relate-able, is it not? I mean, you don't look at it and think "Wow, that looks like a cool new game...I wonder what that's about? Oh, it's meant to be a Tomb Raider game"... You see Lara Croft and can familiarise yourself with her and what she does, and then you can think to yourself "Well I wonder if the new game-play is going to be a better than the old game-play?". Instantly you don't think "Why the hell have they changed her hair colour and her clothes? Who is this meant to be?"... If you think that at first your mind is probably going to get an instant negative reaction towards the change. It would suggest that the initial shock and dislike of the change would make you hostile towards any more change. Which is why I think when we all saw Dante's new design and thought, "Oh hell no", it caused such a problem when we heard about any other changes. It sort of makes us think, "What have they done now?". I think first impressions play a huge part in the liking of something. In real life first impressions play a big part. For instance when you meet new people or present yourself at a job interview or something, you want that first impression to leave a positive reaction and not a negative reaction. And this relates to Devil May Cry, because Ninja Theory went the wrong way with everything to begin with and it made things a lot more worse than they should of been. But everybody makes mistakes, it's only human. And I don't think Ninja Theory planned to annoy us with the changes, even though they were quite drastic. I think Capcom are to blame there because they said "Ah it's fine, just experiment with it" and Ninja Theory said "Oh okay, sure thing". The next thing they did was change things thinking, "This may work, let's show everyone", and then they realised it was a huge mistake and they were way too drastic and experimental with it. Now they've brought it back to Earth which is a good thing, but they still need to touch up on his appearance a little bit more until it can be relate-able again.

Dante's Character Change

When I heard that Ninja Theory had changed Dante's characteristics, I was open minded for new things. I thought it was a good direction to take. I still think positively about this in terms as to whether it will better the story or not. However, having recently pondered whether some decisions were a great idea or not, I think my opinion has been somewhat altered. I agree respectably with other people's points. I have debated that Dante now being half angel does not change the story of Devil May Cry, but I was thinking of it in the terms of if this was Dante in the Devil May Cry we already know. I'm still sticking to the points I've made and with my opinion on that subject. However, I find my opinion changed a little because Ninja Theory aren't going to keep to the story we knew in Devil May Cry. Thinking on it now, it's apparent that this Reboot acting like an 'origin story' for Dante, not set in a different Universe (Because it is the Dante we know and love) but apparently 'not' canon to the story of Devil May Cry, is going to have its own unique story (That means, much like the Tomb Raider Reboot, everything prior to it is essentially messed up). It just doesn't work at all. And changing Dante's character design when he already had his own character and his own story, well that doesn't make sense at all. But I don't blame Ninja Theory for what they are doing, I blame Capcom. And I'll get to my point about that later.

 

[LordOfDarkness]

The Reboot In General (Was it necessary?)

Yes or no? This point actually stems smaller points, which I'll talk about a little later in more detail. First of all lets think if Devil May Cry needed a Reboot. Okay, when I think long and hard about it my honest answer is no, it did not need a Reboot. I think the point however about whether it needed one or not isn't extremely relevant, because it depends on how they go about Rebooting it (But from the points I made earlier, they're making huge changes) It can concern us to whether it is a good thing or not. So it does hold some relevancy, but not to the point we should be saying "No, I don't want this Reboot"... We should just be saying "Well it may be a good game, but it wasn't really necessary". Shall we go into why it wasn't really necessary to Reboot Devil May Cry? I think most of us already know why it wasn't necessary, but I'll make sub-points in relation to this.

- Devil May Cry had a story already. Whether or not it was working, it was still there and in place.​

- Devil May Cry has things left unanswered (A lot of things) We still need them answered.​

- A lot of people including myself were expecting Devil May Cry 5.​

- It doesn't logically make sense. Think about it. Our Dante in an 'origin story' set in a DMC World but the story doesn't relate to the rest of the games or goes in a different direction. It does not stay true to the rest of Devil May Cry.​

So in my opinion, the Reboot wasn't necessary, and it definitely wasn't needed. However, let us try and think on why it happened. Why didn't we receive a Devil May Cry 5? A while ago I made a Devil May Cry 5 Concept Thread, and within it stated that making a good Devil May Cry 5 would be a hard thing to do because they'd have to go a little better than previous Devil May Cry games. They'd have to outdo Devil May Cry 4. I don't know whether this Reboot is just to give Capcom longer to try and think on how to explain things within Devil May Cry, but it's one possible reason we could consider. Perhaps this Reboot Series is here to delay the proper Series until they can straighten and iron it out and deliver a Devil May Cry 5 that is worthy for us to play. It's possible, but it may not be the actual reason or the answer as to why they've decided to go in this direction. Perhaps they are bored with Devil May Cry and have given up, handing it over to Ninja Theory? I mean sure, they can still look into the designs and see what Ninja Theory are doing, but perhaps when it's all out there then Devil May Cry may rest with Ninja Theory should they choose to take over the Devil May Cry Series and produce the games. Because let's think, what would Ninja Theory producing this one Devil May Cry game honestly achieve when it isn't even needed anyway? Absolutely nothing. Unless they plan to make more and branch off from it, meaning we haven't seen the last of Ninja Theory's take on Devil May Cry. Is that what we all want? At this moment in time, I don't think so. But we can only wait and see what they do give us at the end of the day when the game is released, before we can make our minds up on that one.​

The Reason Why Ninja Theory Are Doing A Good Job

The reason why Ninja Theory are doing a good job is because they are only doing what they have been asked to do. They are trying their hardest to look into past Devil May Cry games and design something that is worthy. Maybe they don't actually have a good track record of making good games, but maybe they'll get lucky with this. I think they are trying to work their hardest, make it seem similar to other Devil May Cry games, to them. And they're still changing things and whatnot, clearly to try and please us. I mean, they changed his design and did make him look a lot better now. I think that move was to try and please fans and change their minds. So Ninja Theory are working hard at this and hopefully their hard work pays off in the end. That's where they are doing a good job and we should respect that.

The Reason Why Ninja Theory Are Doing A Bad Job

The reason why Ninja Theory is doing a bad job is because they have been handed a task that didn't need to be done. It's not technically their fault for this, but it does mean they are producing something that we don't really want to see or know about. Because of this they are doing a bad job, by doing a job that doesn't need to be done. They are changing things drastically and inputting their ideas also into what they think Devil May Cry should look like, changing Devil May Cry as a whole. Their task was to take it in a new direction, but that's where they're doing a bad job. It never needed a new direction, it needed the old direction to be brushed up on.

The Problem With Non-Structured Stories

Okay, so does Devil May Cry have a reliable story? No, it doesn't. And it seems odd to me that anything that doesn't stick to having a reliable and consistent story always seems to get changed completely or restyled drastically. I'll use the Tomb Raider Reboot again to back up my points, as I said I would earlier. Tomb Raider never had a story-line that the player could rely on. Why do I say this? In the games themselves they change things about Lara's past. It's evident that they don't stick to a canon based story. For instance, Lara could of been 18 years old and gone to Egypt on a mission. Whereas in another game she could of been 18 years old and gone to Japan on a mission. It doesn't stick to a definite story the player can rely on. It never explains how she survived her supposed 'death', or what happened to her parents. And much like Devil May Cry, which also doesn't explain things to us. Making the story problematic. And maybe that's why we come to this stage of there being a Reboot in the first place, because they just give up trying to explain things and think "Sod it, we'll just start again". And as I stated on here before, that's absolutely wrong in every way. I don't want a new direction, I want answers to the old direction. I think if Companies do decide to Reboot games, they should do so only if they can complete the work they originally started. Otherwise don't bother, because it will just annoy lots of people.

What aspects of Devil May Cry need to be explained? Sparda was a mystery, we need to know more about him. Eva was a mystery, we need to know more about what happened with her. Dante and Vergil growing up, why they worked together and went their separate ways. How Vergil met Arkham and learned about Temen-Ni-Gru. Did Vergil die on Mallet Island? What really happened to him? How did Nero get the Devil Bringer? What is Nero's past? How did Arius know about the demonic artefacts on Dumary Island? How did Matier contact Dante? Did Dante escape from Hell in the end of Devil May Cry 2? There's a ton of things left unexplained. You could spread all of those out in three games at least to answer all of those questions, meaning another three potential games based on the Devil May Cry we already know and love.

Overall Opinion On Devil May Cry

The game is awesome, Dante is awesome. Vergil and Nero are awesome. I mean, all the characters are awesome. The game-play is fantastic, it's exciting. It's fast paced and it flows really well. What lets it down is its story and that's always been the case with Devil May Cry.

Right now we have to accept that Ninja Theory are making DmC (Whatever relationship it's meant to have with DMC). It could be a good game, it might not be. Whether it is or isn't shouldn't really effect DMC, because DMC already let itself down with all of the unanswered mysteries. Of course it will harm the Series, much like they say Devil May Cry 2 did (Although I disagree, but that's just my own opinion). We should move on from DmC if it's no good, like we did with Devil May Cry 2 (Once again, I liked it, but I know lots of people didn't) and focus on the rest of the story that Devil May Cry has yet to tell us. If worst comes to worst with DmC, we shouldn't hold it to Ninja Theory or think its ruined the Series. Unless Capcom don't bother answering those things, then we should.

 

[ToCool74]

You make alot of good points.

Nice read.

 

[Ebony]

I enjoyed reading this LoD. I've come to the conclusion that Capcom should have told Ninja Theory to work on an entirely new game 'cuz that what DmC sounds like doesn't it?!

 

[TheWorldDrifter]

You did a good job I agree with everything about the problems pointed out.

 

[ZenMarter]

The Reboot In General (Was it necessary?)

A while ago I made a Devil May Cry 5 Concept Thread, and within it stated that making a good Devil May Cry 5 would be a hard thing to do because they'd have to go a little better than previous Devil May Cry games. They'd have to outdo Devil May Cry 4. I don't know whether this Reboot is just to give Capcom longer to try and think on how to explain things within Devil May Cry, but it's one possible reason we could consider. Perhaps this Reboot Series is here to delay the proper Series until they can straighten and iron it out and deliver a Devil May Cry 5 that is worthy for us to play.

Even though this idea is only a possibility i hope its the reason capcom is doing the reboot cause its getting me excited to what they're coming up for the next game after.

 

[NeroS]

Agreed with everything.

 

[LordOfDarkness]

You know my post is basically just what everyone else has already said in general. All I did really was combine everyone else's points to make larger posts based from them. I don't really deserve credit for doing so, I was just trying to make things more clear to me and others also. Thanks for agreeing nonetheless, a lot of you make good points as this Thread seems to show (I hope). So thanks for helping me to understand things better.

 

[NeroS]

No problem.Overall in my opinion im highly exited about the game.A moving world,fighting demons.It's something im a sucker for and thus cannot say i hate the game but capcom's choice to Reboot stays a mystery.

 

[Subject 64432B]

Okay, so I've had a lot of time to mull over people's comments as of late regarding Devil May Cry (No, seriously?) Of course, it's a Devil May Cry Forum. Anyway, several thoughts have come to my mind as of now and I thought I would post them up and tell people what I'm thinking.

I'll break my post down into several areas relating to DMC and the new DmC, so everyone can understand what it is I'm directly talking about. Aren't I helpful? Anyway, some of my points are based off from new things I've come to realise myself. Most things are based off of what I have come to realise from others. And what I will mention and relate to is another game that is going in the good old 'Reboot' direction, which is Tomb Raider.

I'll be examining the problem with Devil May Cry as a whole (Considering everything, including the Reboot).

Okay so to begin, I'll discuss...

I agree to mostly everything.
Well, don't you think that series would become overused with three more games with the "old" Dante we know and love....maybe wouldn't become boring to fans but it wouldn't attract new fanbase either.
I think ONE MORE GAME should be enough.
Nero wasn't really needed in the series. He just brought more questions and about Nero's devil bringer it is said in that little book with the game that he received an injury on the right shoulder in a fight with demons...it is enough for me.
How Vergil met Arkham and learned about Temen-Ni-Gru?.....really that's just a tiny little thing that can be said without making new game for it.
If i heard about game named Devil May Cry 8, nah.....
I'm really happy you made some points about NT actually doing some good job too
Reboot is necessary, but maybe this is the wrong time to make it and MAYBE that's why many of you disapprove this game.
I'm just stating my opinion and I don't want to get into some meaningless debate.
Oh, and forgive me for any spelling mistakes....English is not my native language.

 

[NeroS]

I checked NT's games just about now and theres absolutely nothing wrong with them other than the fact they dont fit people's taste's and lead them to say NT's rep is mediocre cause of that.
So im sure this DmC wont be that bad gameplay wise.

 

[ToCool74]

I checked NT's games just about now and theres absolutely nothing wrong with them other than the fact they dont fit people's taste's and lead them to say NT's rep is mediocre cause of that.
.

No one is saying NT's track record is mediocre because we do not like what we have seen so far.

We say it because its well....true.

Fact is that I never thought NT had the track record to even handle a established franchise like DMC.

Not to mention the fact that DMC IMO did not need a reboot because there were STILL things that needed to be answered in the established canon.

 

[Ultima]

The Reboot In General (Was it necessary?)

Yes or no?

ummmmm.... NO!!! Jesus Christ, Capcom! You could at least listen to the fans for once and make an entire game out of all the stupid plot holes in the series...like the mother of all plotholes for the DMC series: Nero's orgin T.T DUUURR, EASY AS THT!!! YOU DIDNT HAVE TO MAKE A REBOOT!!!

 

[NeroS]

No one is saying NT's track record is mediocre because we do not like what we have seen so far.

We say it because its well....true.

Fact is that I never thought NT had the track record to even handle a established franchise like DMC.

Not to mention the fact that DMC IMO did not need a reboot because there were STILL things that needed to be answered in the established canon.

It's what i have heard from youtube comments atleast.Yes DMC did not need a reboot but there aren't that many things that need a new DMC to be answered which still i know doesn't change the fact the reboot wasn't needed.

 

[ZenMarter]

As much as i want them to continue the original series I wanna keep an open mind and be fair so, IMO lets give NT a chance even though the game itself IMO doesn't really say DMC because when i usually hear or say DMC the first thing that pops to my mind is dark spooky goth enviroment which IMO is awesome!.

 

[Dante's Stalker]

First off: please don't stone me to death!!!!

I think most of us already know why it wasn't necessary, but I'll make sub-points in relation to this.

- Devil May Cry had a story already. Whether or not it was working, it was still there and in place.​

- Devil May Cry has things left unanswered (A lot of things) We still need them answered.​

- It doesn't logically make sense. Think about it. Our Dante in an 'origin story' set in a DMC World but the story doesn't relate to the rest of the games or goes in a different direction. It does not stay true to the rest of Devil May Cry.​

​

But those are the reasons why I think a reboot IS necessary.
The story wasn't working, both because the fans spat on it and because there are no answers to our questions. All that has been added to the franchise throughout its history are more questions and more sinkholes that lead to absolutely nowhere. DMC1 left the fans on a cliffhanger - is Dante going to settle down now, is he going to retire, what happened to his brother, and where WAS Sparda when Dante's mother was killed? Along comes DMC3 which answers ABSOLUTELY NONE OF OUR QUESTIONS, but with the bonus of having Vergil added to the storyline. Then comes DMC4 with the anarchy-spreader Nero and hints from Capcom that he's Vergil's son.

I mean, really. WTF? Where was the series going? Capcom sure as hell didn't know.
So, in the story aspect of it, I do think DMC was in need of a reboot, and it's great that Capcom has gotten a company who excel in storytelling to do just that, because heaven knows, Capcom SUCK at storytelling. As the saying goes, they couldn't keep their story straight.

I also think that, considering most fans were whining about Dante becoming stale, wanting to have him replaced with Nero (whom we know even LESS about than Dante), and stating that his character is going to now become an add-on character, who is simply in the game because he has to be there, like it was already set in stone, I think the franchise was due a massive overhaul.

Capcom wasn't going to give us a story that wraps up all the lose ends. It would be ludicrous to expect NT to try make sense of the senseless. It's not a matter of it being easier to do a reboot but rather it's necessary to do a reboot.

That's my take on it, anyway. I might be the only one who believes this reboot was the only answer to saving the series from the point of no return. In light of that, I'd like to see anyone here who is anti-reboot to take the original series and answer all the questions, fill all the loopholes, and do so in an acceptible and awesome concept that doesn't contradict any of the other facts pertaining to DMC. I know I've tried, but I always come to one last question: what is the point?

 

[Meg]

First off: please don't stone me to death!!!!

I won't stone you to death if you promise to not stone me to death for saying this;

Honestly, I really don't get the people who say that a reboot is necessary because the story was going nowhere. Hey guess what kids, that's called being uncreative and cheap. Maybe I just love writing to much, but I find it incredibly easy to tie everything together and have it make sense, so the fact Capcom isn't even trying and instead just saying "eff it" and rebooting it means they are lazy and stupid. Even if they did try to explain everything and then gave up that still makes them uncreative. For shame.

And since when was NT good at storytelling anyway? Even if you liked the story of Enslaved you have to admit the ending was overly cliched. That's not good storytelling to me. That's being cheap. (And the fact that Pigsy was sexist doesn't help NT's cause either. >_<)

And another thing that's been on my mind lately. To all the people that want this reboot and think its necessary/beneficial/preferable to the original series I have to ask: how many of you actually wanted a reboot prior to it being announced? I don't mean to be rude, but it all seems strange that I never heard anyone say they think Capcom- or anyone really- should reboot the story until it happened. I never saw anyone say the story is going nowhere and they should just start over. No, I saw plenty of people coming up with theories and story lines for future DMC games that act as a sequel to the original series. It wasn't until a reboot was announced that I saw anyone say anything about how a reboot is a good thing.

That wasn't aimed at you, DS. I just quoted your post because it reminded me of all the stuff I had been thinking about. Don't hurt me!

 

[wallenb]

i guess i'm a DmC supporter and before the released teaser i had no idea what capcom was going to do for a follow up to 4. But i know i didnt want capcom to tell another off the wall story again and while playing the game you have to back track the whole game with the main character. they were lazy long ago. i liked heavenly swords story and enslaved story. Enslaved ending might have been cliche, but dmc's story is for the most part about revenge

 

[NeroS]

I won't stone you to death if you promise to not stone me to death for saying this;

Honestly, I really don't get the people who say that a reboot is necessary because the story was going nowhere. Hey guess what kids, that's called being uncreative and cheap. Maybe I just love writing to much, but I find it incredibly easy to tie everything together and have it make sense, so the fact Capcom isn't even trying and instead just saying "eff it" and rebooting it means they are lazy and stupid. Even if they did try to explain everything and then gave up that still makes them uncreative. For shame.

And since when was NT good at storytelling anyway? Even if you liked the story of Enslaved you have to admit the ending was overly cliched. That's not good storytelling to me. That's being cheap. (And the fact that Pigsy was sexist doesn't help NT's cause either. >_<)

And another thing that's been on my mind lately. To all the people that want this reboot and think its necessary/beneficial/preferable to the original series I have to ask: how many of you actually wanted a reboot prior to it being announced? I don't mean to be rude, but it all seems strange that I never heard anyone say they think Capcom- or anyone really- should reboot the story until it happened. I never saw anyone say the story is going nowhere and they should just start over. No, I saw plenty of people coming up with theories and story lines for future DMC games that act as a sequel to the original series. It wasn't until a reboot was announced that I saw anyone say anything about how a reboot is a good thing.

That wasn't aimed at you, DS. I just quoted your post because it reminded me of all the stuff I had been thinking about. Don't hurt me!

Yes it's true.Capcom is lazy but not just to do a reboot.Come on now do all of you ever think a game is necessary when they could just have wrote the story's for the characters.It's easy to tell how Nero got his arm(talking about capcom doing this)but they didn't.They could but did not.AKA.They we're lazy along time before this reboot.So no Sequel is needed to tell the story.Look at DMC4.No hell gates.What now?.Demons are going to skydive to the earth?.Nah.There are too much holes in the story to even need to continue if they do continue well..good but for now a reboot was needed.By the way.i had no idea reboots ever existed until this one.

 

[ZenMarter]

IMO if they were gonna make a reboot rather then making everything different they should have retained many of the elements of the original dmc series. What they should have done was change the story making it a bit different from the original yet it still contained many of the elements of the original series therefore making it more interesting and this time actually having a solid story which would make fans want to know more and also including plot twists that would keep us interested in what would happen next and also this time they do it chronologically in order so as to follow the story properly (This means starting from when their father sparda was defending humanity from being killed) again this is just MY perspective of how they made the game not hating or anything like that.