The Order of Sparda

[DreadnoughtDT]

I can just imagine the conversation later...

*Nero walks out of the room*

Kieran: What took you so long?

Nero: I sort of let the word "war" slip...

Kieran: Goddammit...

 

[Nicodemus Zamoran]

^I second that! XDD

This is so amazing. Really, truely amazing.

 

[The crazy demon]

I can believe i missed this D:


I love it.

 

[moseslmpg]

@Moses: Yeah, if you got any questions please fire away. I have a pretty bad memory and yeah, I actually do forget what occurs in my own fics, especially the ones I write as fast as I did this one, so I might not have all the answers right away.

Alright. I mainly have questions about your universe, rather than any specific event, so that works out. I'm more comfortable discussing ideas than details anyway, and this is why we only have 1.5 fics out over the past few years

There are two other fics that are in a similar setting as this one. I don't know if I've said this before but this fic is a spin off of sorts from my Ragnarok fic, which is basically about D-day in the DMC universe.So... yeah, in the Ragnarok fic, Mundus basically takes over the human realm and gets his way, and for a long time there's hardship for mankind and the Sparda boys are nowhere to be found. They only pitch up near the end of the fic to steal the show. The Order of Sparda is basically a little side story about WHERE exactly Nero and the lot of them were the whole time chaos was raining down on earth.

Ah, that's nice, addressing the Eschaton. I'm not sure how many writers do that, but I think it is probably the most interesting setting you can use for a DMC fic. I actually formulated the framework I sent you initially as a lead in story to an pocalyptic DMC RPG, where the twins were missing or dead. I didn't consider to actually explain where they were though, because I tend to just leave things without explanation like that.

And the other fic, Shadow of a Demon, takes place long before this fic in the time when Sparda was residing in Fortuna as the feudal lord. I know in the game they say it was just a legend, but I've been doing some research about feudal lords and wanted to do a story about it. So, I don't know if mentioning any of this might help clear up any confusion, but once I can get my hands on those other fics and post them up, a lot of things that seemed to be left hanging or that seems to be shrouded in mystery in this fic, will be a lot more understandable and clear.

That's cool. Manny and I want to cover that briefly, if we ever get to the sequel. I think it would be interesting to see his interaction with the islanders and the development of the cult to him though.

And in this fic in particular I'm going with the idea that Nero is Vergil's son. Mind you, it's the first fic and possibly the one fic in which I will support the idea. It just kinda...fit with the scene.

In some sense, I think this is a good idea, because at least it gives the writer control over Nero's origin rather than simply leaving it up in the air. I also don't really deny Nero being Vergil's offspring in my framework, but he is a rather complex genetic/bio-weapon gestated in Vergil's half sister, meaning Vergil is both Nero's father and half uncle and sort of brother. It makes more sense in context.

Erm...as for what happened to Vergil - well, in my mind, this new Order tracked down the remains of his soul and had a ...necromancer, I think? And some serious magic mojo that helped to recreate Vergil's body - which wouldn't have been hard to do since they only needed to make a copy of Dante. They did something similar with Sparda - kind of like they were creating clones of Vergil and Sparda, you could say. With the good intentions, of course.

That works. I think that is a good way to get around the crap Kobayashi has been throwing around. I personally just ignore Koba and say that Nelo was Vergil's body, but that way works equally well, if not better. I don't know about Sparda though. Is he not dead in your universe?

I did have some questions about him as well. Like how does he have the power to give humans immortality and a place outside of time to exist? Those things never occurred to me, him establishing an order of immortals, although it would make sense if he established a secret order that was passed down for generations...Ah, but Manny and I have too many orders to think about right now.

Also, what is the basis for this magic? Is it demonic, angelic? Something of both, or alchemy? These kind of concerns are my forte, so I'm interested.

Also also, have you made any demonic characters or altered anything about the standard history of Sparda?

*is floored* That IS the biggest compliment I have EVER received. Really, you and Manny are BRILLIANT so that is very, very flattering of you!
*blushes to death* x_x

Ah, well you flatter us with your being flattered We don't really consider ourselves "writers" (I don't anyway), but rather idea men, and so we are readily able to admit that there are much better writers out there. I think you have a combination of interesting ideas and good writing that is really useful for fanfic writing. For me particularly writing is like a chore and I experience resistance the entire way through it, so thing don't flow so nicely. And since I tend to work in my head a lot, some of my writing isn't so communicate and it doesn't get the message across. But I see that you don't have that problem. And tbh, I don't enjoy reading my own writing, and I don't find our fic that enjoyable to read either (maybe because I know everything about it though), so I like reading other well constructed fanfics like this one.

 

[Dante's Stalker]

I don't know about Sparda though. Is he not dead in your universe?

Yeah, he was pretty much dead. It's the only reason I could ever fathom why he wasn't there to protect his family. But because the Order was watching over him and everyone else, they were able to retrieve his body after his death, which explains why his body was never found. In my mind, though, it would have taken a lot of damage to bring Sparda down, so his body would have been short of mutilated, but because the Order had his DNA at their disposal, it made it possible for them to clone him.

I did have some questions about him as well. Like how does he have the power to give humans immortality and a place outside of time to exist? Those things never occurred to me, him establishing an order of immortals, although it would make sense if he established a secret order that was passed down for generations...Ah, but Manny and I have too many orders to think about right now.

In a way the humans aren't exactly immortal. If one of them tripped and fell down the stairs and broke their neck, they would probably be paralysed for life or dead. This is one of the things I didn't properly define for the reader in the fic. The place where they find themselves is an underground safehouse of sorts, or rather an underground 'safe-city'. It was built by humans and demons alike when Sparda first established the Order, so it is a real, solid place. What Sparda did was to conceal the construction from demon and human alike, and to do that he pierced the veil between the worlds and found a little hole that just happened to be a timeless space. And the magic itself in the safety zone are all Sparda's doing, and not entirely what it seems (which again, I didn't really explain well in the fic) Like, the green ward that kept Nero captive in that room was actually a ward that surrounded the rest of the facility, and not the room itself. It only activated because Nero was angry and intent on exerting violence on the others. That's why, when he was moved to the new room, the ward was there as well, it just wasn't activated because he'd calmed down and wasn't planning on stabbing someone. And again, the whole purple explosions that happen when they try to fight one another, is not a spell cast that prevents harm between members but it's rather a...protective shield? Er...how do I explain this...it's like Sparda's mark on the people. They're basically protected by his power as long as they remain loyal to him. And from what I know of magic, even pitiful human beings can use it if they know how, and it is very much influenced by emotion, which is why the magic itself is subject to change according to mood swings, and why it's as easy as pie for Sparda to do.

I could never see Sparda sealing away ALL his power, I mean logically if he was as powerful as the legend implies, he would still have some excess of his power in human form. And, of course, he must have had a broad knowledge of the demonic and mastered the dark arts, so even if he didn't have that much of his own power, he still had the intellect to know how to get things done.

Also, what is the basis for this magic? Is it demonic, angelic? Something of both, or alchemy? These kind of concerns are my forte, so I'm interested.

I think I've already kind of answered that, but to expand on it a bit (because of my beliefs, etc) the magic is derived from the demonic. Angels wouldn't risk giving any of their power to humans because human nature is evil, but demons would grant wishes and give access to their corrupt powers to the humans, because they really don't care whether it is used for good or evil. Because the power is corrupt (demons being fallen angels) it is presumed that eventually the wielder of the power will also fall into corruption at some point. So on that, the basis for the magic is demonic.

Also also, have you made any demonic characters or altered anything about the standard history of Sparda?

Not that I'm aware of. I try to keep within the legend, and when I bring other elements into play it's in a way that won't contradict the actual legend or have any effect on what is canon. But demonic characters, yeah, I've got a few of them, but none of the canons from the games since they're all either dead or too butt-hurt over what Sparda did.

If you got any more questions, fire at will ^_^

 

[Nicodemus Zamoran]

Nice. Also, I liked the bit about Dante. I can't wait for him to bust in there guns ablaze, then get his ass kicked by Sparda. XD It'd be funny as hell.

 

[moseslmpg]

Yeah, he was pretty much dead. It's the only reason I could ever fathom why he wasn't there to protect his family. But because the Order was watching over him and everyone else, they were able to retrieve his body after his death, which explains why his body was never found. In my mind, though, it would have taken a lot of damage to bring Sparda down, so his body would have been short of mutilated, but because the Order had his DNA at their disposal, it made it possible for them to clone him.

So this is a clone of Sparda then, not actually Sparda? Did they put his memories in the clone or something?

What Sparda did was to conceal the construction from demon and human alike, and to do that he pierced the veil between the worlds and found a little hole that just happened to be a timeless space. And the magic itself in the safety zone are all Sparda's doing, and not entirely what it seems (which again, I didn't really explain well in the fic)

That part sort of makes sense, assuming Sparda studied magical arts and whatnot, since it wouldn't take so much power as much as skill. But how exactly is this place timeless and what is preserving the people there? Those don't seem like characteristics of the dimension, and they seem far beyond the powers of Sparda. I mean, if he could do that, one would imagine that he would have protected Eva and the twins in the same way before he died.

They're basically protected by his power as long as they remain loyal to him. And from what I know of magic, even pitiful human beings can use it if they know how, and it is very much influenced by emotion, which is why the magic itself is subject to change according to mood swings, and why it's as easy as pie for Sparda to do.

It just all seems very complex and somewhat beyond Sparda's capabilities. I've always seen Sparda as a warrior, not a sorcerer or mystic, so these things seem like a stretch. I think perhaps Many and I don't deify Sparda as much as the series does. He is a savior, certainly, but he is just a normal demon, and his struggles are even tougher than those of a normal person IMO.

I could never see Sparda sealing away ALL his power, I mean logically if he was as powerful as the legend implies, he would still have some excess of his power in human form. And, of course, he must have had a broad knowledge of the demonic and mastered the dark arts, so even if he didn't have that much of his own power, he still had the intellect to know how to get things done.

I'm sure he didn't seal all of it away, but I don't think it follows that he mastered the dark arts to that extent. He wasn't exactly in the best place to study them. This may be a difference of opinion.

Not that I'm aware of. I try to keep within the legend, and when I bring other elements into play it's in a way that won't contradict the actual legend or have any effect on what is canon. But demonic characters, yeah, I've got a few of them, but none of the canons from the games since they're all either dead or too butt-hurt over what Sparda did.

I don't have any problem bringing back demons from DMC4 that were dishonored, like Berial. I don't think all of it has to be taken as canon because of how shoddily it was done. But demonic characters are something I generally applaud since there is not enough focus on the demonic in DMC IMO.

 

[Dante's Stalker]

So this is a clone of Sparda then, not actually Sparda? Did they put his memories in the clone or something?

Kind of. :wacko: You can't bring the dead back to life, realistically, but you can replicate them and bring them 'back' that way. It is Sparda, and Vergil, in appearance and in essence, but of course they won't be exactly as they were before. To them it would feel like they've never been dead, because they won't have memory of their deaths, so it would be like they're awaking from a coma of sorts. Their memories will gradually return to them, but they wouldn't exactly have the same attachment or perspective of their memories as they had before. Kind of like... they know the memories are theirs but it won't feel like THEIR memories. So, it really is Sparda, but it's not. Er...I'd explain cloning from a fictional POV if it wasn't so confuzzling, but it really is difficult to follow in thought and even more so to explain in words.

That part sort of makes sense, assuming Sparda studied magical arts and whatnot, since it wouldn't take so much power as much as skill. But how exactly is this place timeless and what is preserving the people there? Those don't seem like characteristics of the dimension, and they seem far beyond the powers of Sparda. I mean, if he could do that, one would imagine that he would have protected Eva and the twins in the same way before he died.

Well like I said, it's not Sparda himself who is upholding the safehouse in a timeless realm, he simply moved it there. The realm itself is not necessarily an actual realm or place in itself - as there are vortexes in space, there are bound to be chasms in the space between worlds. Because it's not an actual place it doesn't necessarily 'exist', so what is considered normal in other realms such as gravity and time, does not apply to a place that is off the radar.

It just all seems very complex and somewhat beyond Sparda's capabilities. I've always seen Sparda as a warrior, not a sorcerer or mystic, so these things seem like a stretch. I think perhaps Many and I don't deify Sparda as much as the series does. He is a savior, certainly, but he is just a normal demon, and his struggles are even tougher than those of a normal person IMO.

The demonic and the dark arts go hand in hand. When I said he mastered the dark arts, I didn't mean he went and studied it at any time. The dark arts is just another term used for human beings who strive to obtain the power of demons and how to use it. So, in essence, Sparda already knew everything there was to know about the dark arts because it comes with the package of being a normal demon. He was revered as one of the most skilled demons, and not just because of his swordsmanship. He had to have known his stuff to be able to seal the Temenigru, and I'm sure he had to act fast to do that because Mundus would have been riding his tail. If you take Vergil, for example, because he wasn't raised in hell as Sparda was, he had to actually study the dark arts to further his skill and understand his origins better. Being a demon and having vast knowledge of the dark arts are a two for one price, if you understand what I mean.

I'm sure he didn't seal all of it away, but I don't think it follows that he mastered the dark arts to that extent. He wasn't exactly in the best place to study them. This may be a difference of opinion.

Like I said, he didn't need to study them, it was already part of him and hell would have given him more than enough opportunity to discover his magic abilities via hands on experience.

I don't have any problem bringing back demons from DMC4 that were dishonored, like Berial. I don't think all of it has to be taken as canon because of how shoddily it was done. But demonic characters are something I generally applaud since there is not enough focus on the demonic in DMC IMO.

LOL. I'm severely unimpressed by Berial, and wouldn't use him in my fiction at any point. Actually I'm disgusted by all the bosses in DMC4, if you compare them to the demons in DMC3, they seem pitiful. Beowulf, now HIM I'd use. XD