Square's thoughts on FFXIII

[Meg]

Square Enix has spoken admirably frankly on the development issues that resulted in Final Fantasy XIII being one of the less well received entries in the long-running series, citing a lack of shared vision among other things for its lukewarm reception.

Motomu Toriyama and Akihiko Maeda of the Final Fantasy XIII team conducted the post-mortem within the pages of Game Set Watch's sister publication Game Developer, told of how time constraints prevented user feedback on its much-disparaged linearity being implemented.

"We were experimenting with Western development methods, and there were talks within the team of global focus groups, which we had rarely conducted with previous projects," said the pair, "At the same time, Square Enix set up international focus groups for certain titles, including Final Fantasy XIII. Unfortunately, we were already quite far along in development, and knew it would be too late to implement most of the feedback from the player test sessions."

Full article: http://ps3.ign.com/articles/112/1128521p1.html

What do you guys think? I seem to be the only one that thinks XIII is the best in the series. Hell not even the people that made it agree with me. XD

Where do you stand on the game and where would you like to see the franchise head next? Let us know below.

Feel free to share your thoughts on this to.

 

[Angelo Credo]

While my long playing session of the game when I didn't have my laptop made me warm up to the game somewhat, I personally found it to be just...The worst entry of the entire series, it bored me half to tears most of the time and it was only when I hit Gran Pulse that things got mildly interesting.

I'm about an hour away from completing the story, but I won't unless I somehow break my laptop again. I just found it to be so boring and stodgy that it evoked no real enjoyment from me. I'm actually kind of insulted that the devs view "Western development methods" as linear corridor after linear corridor with the odd curve ball of a slightly twisty corridor, it's just not fun, even when you get to Gran Pulse it feels like they made no effort to make the world feel huge.

Hell, even then it's just more straight corridors.

Variety is the spice of life people!

EDIT: In response to the second part, I can really only see it going further downhill, to me, the series reached it's absolute peak at IX, ever since, it's just gone down...Down...Down, with a slight up in XII, then back down again.

 

[aka958]

Final Fantasy XIII had flaws. It's linearity is quite tedious and it's lack of enemy variety is too. But the game is not as bad as people say. I actually like it alot, the fast paced battles, the story, the characters (excluding Vanille), the soundtracks, and the environments. Too many complain, saying that Final Fantasy is not as good anymore, that Square are just doing sucky FF games after Final Fantasy X. I disagree, they have some flaws but so many are just making mountains out of molehills.

My opinion on the series downfall = none. I like all the games in the main series, no, don't call me a FF fanboy and that I just like it because it is Final Fantasy. I hate Tactics, Crystal Quest, and all those games.

Final Fantasy XII? It is one of my absolute favorites.

Final Fantasy XIII? Absolutely not bad.

Final Fantasy X? It is one of my favorites.

Final Fantasy IX? My absolute favorite.

 

[Meg]

I'm actually kind of insulted that the devs view "Western development methods" as linear corridor after linear corridor with the odd curve ball of a slightly twisty corridor

You forgot the occasional "hidden" treasure. =]

 

[aka958]

You forgot the occasional "hidden" treasure. =]

Yeah. After a while I skipped most of them. No weapon could outmatch my level 23 Gladius anyway, and I didn't want to restart any of the leveling of a weapon. :\

 

[Meg]

^ I kept each characters standard weapon until I got Lionheart for Lightning. Oh yeah and Hope had What's-its-face. XD I wish it didn't take so damn long to upgrade weapons though. >_<

 

[Angelo Credo]

Final Fantasy IX? My absolute favorite.

I like you.

 

[Dark Drakan]

It needs more freedom, more things to do and less parts where you are being pushed location to location. The linearity of the series has never been a huge issue but Western RPG's offer so much more variety and choice than JRPG's so the replay value is MUCH higher. They just need to include some parts and systems that let you have more control and choice in them so going from point A to point B or defeating the same enemy for the 15th time doesnt get so old quick.

My favourites were FFX and FFIX, i disliked FFXII and didnt even bother with FFXIII after reading reviews and hearing thoughts from my friends who were long time FF fans.

 

[aka958]

I like you.

Who doesn't?
Wait... many doesn't. >_<
Zomg!
"So what are you? The ambassador of his fan club?"
"No, that would be your mother!"
Meet the spy ftw.
I'll go on topic again now. :ninja:

It needs more freedom, more things to do and less parts where you are being pushed location to location. The linearity of the series has never been a huge issue but Western RPG's offer so much more variety and choice than JRPG's so the replay value is MUCH higher. They just need to include some parts and systems that let you have more control and choice in them so going from point A to point B or defeating the same enemy for the 15th time doesnt get so old quick.

My favourites were FFX and FFIX, i disliked FFXII and didnt even bother with FFXIII after reading reviews and hearing thoughts from my friends who were long time FF fans.

Many long time FF fans hate FFXIII because they are long time FF fans. The series has changed alot, many of the long time FF fans hate it because of that. Some are just chanting about FFVII, or FFIV, FFVI (those three are most popular) and says that the other games aren't like either FFVII, FFIV, or FFVI.

But I believe its core content and feel is still there, and the changes is just what defines each of the games in the series. Like the Junction system in FFVIII, or the Job system in FFIII, or the enhanced Job system in FFV, the Materia system in FFVII, the Esper system in FFVI, the Gear system in FFIX (Learning abilities from equipment?), the Sphere Grid in FFX, the License Board in FFXII, the speedy ATB in FFXIII, etc.

Although one thing I really really hated about FFXIII. NO DUNGEON CRAWLING FEELING AT ALL!!! D:
You fight a monster, but you don't have to worry if you get a game over. You can restart right outside the battle. You don't have to worry about mana, since everything is time based. You don't have to worry about health, it's regenerated to full after each battle. You don't worry about always having equipment, there is just no need. All status effects were just temporary for the battle. Most weapons were rendered useless and chests never held anything that great or life saving.

This way they make:
Towns useless
Items useless
Treasures useless
Healing outside of battles useless

But all that was needed because all you had to do is walk down a corridor. You didn't take any chances in a big dungeon like:

1. I might not survive if I take the wrong turn.

There is no wrong turn.

2. I don't have enough gil to buy potions and better equip to survive the dungeon ahead.

There is no dungeon, you don't need gil, potions are rendered useless, accessories doesn't matter that much until endgame and postgame.

3. My potions are running dry and my casters are getting out of mana. I need to survive the boss in the end of the dungeon with this. I need to save my mana so that I have some left for the boss fight but I need to be swift as well when fighting the encounters on the way.

There is no mana. You automatically have full life against the bosses and all your actions costs nothing but ATB time with the exception of TP which is regenerated after each battle and it's abilities is not that good either.

4. Finally a whole new place to discover! Where do I start looking?

Don't you mean: "Finally a new corridor to go through! I'll go right on ahead since that is the only way!"

5. I've gotten the airship, travels are much easier now.

What is an airship? :huh:

6. I finally got Fira! Yes! At last my mage can do some more damage.

Fira? Isn't that like an AoE fire with not that much more damage and takes double time to cast?


Seriously, I can continue ranting on about this but I will say that it has a few positive things many FF's failed at:

1. More intense battles.
You get fully healed after every battle, thus you can have harder battles to fight in were your health gets real low and there is a struggle. Not like Final Fantasy I where you can just attack your way through most dungeons with an AoE spell against hordes who take longer to kill with the regular attack.

2. Deep fighting system.
FFXIII had two things it really shined with. It's graphics and it's fighting system. The fighting system is deep and it involves alot of strategy. Now if there just was more than 30 different types of enemies to fight...


There. Those are my thoughts on some things about Final Fantasy XIII.

 

[Dark Drakan]

Many long time FF fans hate FFXIII because they are long time FF fans. The series has changed alot, many of the long time FF fans hate it because of that. Some are just chanting about FFVII, or FFIV, FFVI (those three are most popular) and says that the other games aren't like either FFVII, FFIV, or FFVI.

But I believe its core content and feel is still there, and the changes is just what defines each of the games in the series. Like the Junction system in FFVIII, or the Job system in FFIII, or the enhanced Job system in FFV, the Materia system in FFVII, the Esper system in FFVI, the Gear system in FFIX (Learning abilities from equipment?), the Sphere Grid in FFX, the License Board in FFXII, the speedy ATB in FFXIII, etc.

The core has mostly remained there over every single FF game but as you said the systems, story, characters and enemies have been modified each time so they are used to change in that aspect. What they didnt like was no exploring, linear gameplay being forced from Point A to Point B with no option to deviate from the narrow path they were being pushed down with a really pretty backdrop that they couldnt go and explore it was just teasing them and more style over substance sort of gameplay.

 

[aka958]

The core has mostly remained there over every single FF game but as you said the systems, story, characters and enemies have been modified each time so they are used to change in that aspect. What they didnt like was no exploring, linear gameplay being forced from Point A to Point B with no option to deviate from the narrow path they were being pushed down with a really pretty backdrop that they couldnt go and explore it was just teasing them and more style over substance sort of gameplay.

Not the lack of dungeon crawling?

I got to admit though. People wanted more to explore after FFX, so Square made FFXII with a gigantic world and alot to explore and do in the post-game. But many didn't like the gameplay and story, and many actually argued that the big world was unneccessary and not that fun at all.

So FFXIII introduces better gameplay, a somewhat better story, and most importantly, what most wanted, a linear RPG with less to explore!

Sure, Square did take it to the extreme, but also they listened to what the fans said. Square isn't entirely to blame, no?

 

[Dark Drakan]

Not the lack of dungeon crawling?

I got to admit though. People wanted more to explore after FFX, so Square made FFXII with a gigantic world and alot to explore and do in the post-game. But many didn't like the gameplay and story, and many actually argued that the big world was unneccessary and not that fun at all.

So FFXIII introduces better gameplay, a somewhat better story, and most importantly, what most wanted, a linear RPG with less to explore!

Sure, Square did take it to the extreme, but also they listened to what the fans said. Square isn't entirely to blame, no?

The lack of variety in environments and freedom to go anywhere besides a matter of square feet of corridor was the main issue. FFXII was decent but the battle system was flawed and couldnt decide if it wanted to be a standard FF one or an MMO one and the story just didnt grab me and thats a must for a FF game. I just wasnt very interested in it and the combat really bugged me. If a game has a big world you need to have lots to do in it to make it feel big and not just a large area with areas and NPC's spread needlessly around it to fill space.

You can have linear RPG's with a sense of freedom but FFXII didnt give you that. It was just a more linear than usual FF title.

 

[aka958]

The lack of variety in environments and freedom to go anywhere besides a matter of square feet of corridor was the main issue. FFXII was decent but the battle system was flawed and couldnt decide if it wanted to be a standard FF one or an MMO one and the story just didnt grab me and thats a must for a FF game. I just wasnt very interested in it and the combat really bugged me. If a game has a big world you need to have lots to do in it to make it feel big and not just a large area with areas and NPC's spread needlessly around it to fill space.

You can have linear RPG's with a sense of freedom but FFXII didnt give you that. It was just a more linear than usual FF title.

Uhh... no?
The marks and elite marks
The rare monsters hunts
The bazaar
Optional bosses and optional espers
The secret dungeons (going further in Henne mines, The Great Crystal, and The Pharos)
Minigames such as the fishing mini game, strange sidequests you almost don't notice, and alot more.

Let's take a linear FF game that is claimed as good by many, Final Fantasy X.
Optional quests that I remember:
Capturing all monsters.
Finding the hidden destinations
Omega Ruins
Baaj Temple
Getting the ultimate weapons
The Arena
Dark summons and Penance
Blitzball
Chocobo minigame

Capturing all monsters is part of the Arena sidequest. Baaj Temple is not used to much but killing an easy optional boss, not even much to random encounters. Finding all destinations were actually pretty fun but... boring in the end. Getting all the ultimate equipment is why you play the Chocobo minigame, it is what you get from playing blitzball. Omega Ruins was an epic postgame dungeon who I loved alot. The Arena is the most enjoying, grind festing sidequest I've ever played in any game ever. Dark summons and Penance is easily reachable bosses that you can only kill after getting the ultimate weapons.

There is alot to do in Final Fantasy XII, at least every area had it's secrets, which made it enjoyable. The battle system being in between an MMO and an JRPG? It isn't an easy battle system once you turn off the gambit system.
The story in FFXII sucked, that I can't deny. And it's magic queue is just stupid. But that is all I can find lacking in this game. :\

Final Fantasy XII did not lack content. Sure FFX's list is longer and it's even more compact. But the Marks takes long time to be done with, the optional Espers are hard to find, the Bazaar has alots of secrets goods, the fishing sidequest is huge when you hunt for Matamune, the secret weapons, the epic battle against Hellwyrm, the epic bosses at all, the huge variety of monster design, etc.

 

[Dark Drakan]

Let's take a linear FF game that is claimed as good by many, Final Fantasy X.
Optional quests that I remember:
Capturing all monsters.
Finding the hidden destinations
Omega Ruins
Baaj Temple
Getting the ultimate weapons
The Arena
Dark summons and Penance
Blitzball
Chocobo minigame

I never managed to kill all the dark Aeons or capture all the monsters but i did spend around 50-80 hours alone on Blitzball. No other FF mini-game has had my interest like that did.

 

[aka958]

I never managed to kill all the dark Aeons or capture all the monsters but i did spend around 50-80 hours alone on Blitzball. No other FF mini-game has had my interest like that did.

Yupp. Minigame.

Final Fantasy X has a fun minigame which takes quite the time investment to get far in. It isn't much of a minigame. And the minigame doesn't add that much in the actual world you wander. It is undeniable that FFXII has alot of content for a single player game, whethever you liked it or not is another thing.

 

[Dark Drakan]

Yupp. Minigame.

Final Fantasy X has a fun minigame which takes quite the time investment to get far in. It isn't much of a minigame. And the minigame doesn't add that much in the actual world you wander. It is undeniable that FFXII has alot of content for a single player game, whethever you liked it or not is another thing.

Blitzball didnt feel like a mini-game but a game in itself. I liked the ideas in FFXII just couldnt get into it thats all.

 

[aka958]

Blitzball didnt feel like a mini-game but a game in itself. I liked the ideas in FFXII just couldnt get into it thats all.

Yeah, that is what I meant. Blitzball is so damn gigantic and huge. Why I think it's quite fun but... when I just want Wakka's Celestial weapon and have to go into the hardest of leagues and tournaments when I haven't even finished the first one and the item needed is a random prize... I hated the game at that moment. <_<

Opinions differ. We can't expect everyone to think the same. Most dislike FFXII, some doesn't. Some like Blitzball, some doesn't. ^_^

On the minigame hand though. FFXIII lacked minigames.
Ohh! And my favorite minigame was and still is Triple Triad from FFVIII.

 

[Dark Drakan]

Yeah, that is what I meant. Blitzball is so damn gigantic and huge. Why I think it's quite fun but... when I just want Wakka's Celestial weapon and have to go into the hardest of leagues and tournaments when I haven't even finished the first one and the item needed is a random prize... I hated the game at that moment. <_<

Opinions differ. We can't expect everyone to think the same. Most dislike FFXII, some doesn't. Some like Blitzball, some doesn't. ^_^

On the minigame hand though. FFXIII lacked minigames.
Ohh! And my favorite minigame was and still is Triple Triad from FFVIII.

Of course opinions differ and i respect yours, I really enjoyed Blitzball but took ages to get into and good at and most people disliked it. :lol:

FFVIII was one of the ones i didnt play myself but ive seen it played from start to finish many times.

 

[aka958]

Of course opinions differ and i respect yours, I really enjoyed Blitzball but took ages to get into and good at and most people disliked it. :lol:

FFVIII was one of the ones i didnt play myself but ive seen it played from start to finish many times.

What? Why watch it over and over from start to end but not play it? :huh:

Did one of your friends play it often and you watched or...?

 

[Dark Drakan]

What? Why watch it over and over from start to end but not play it? :huh:

Did one of your friends play it often and you watched or...?

Yeah i had 2 consoles and we used to play link play on games on them mostly but sometimes id play a game on my console on one TV and my friends would show me another game on my other console on another TV. I played it briefly but didnt own the game.