Should Nero have been the lead instead of Dante?

[V's patron]

I was wondering if the anime would've been better off developing Nero before
his debut in 4?

 

[Morgan]

Considering how boring the anime we got is, yes. Anything aside from "Dante acts depressed and we'll never explain it because this is part of his Cool Loser archetype while he one-shots enemies with bad animation" would be better than what we got. But on the other hand, no. Nero should have gotten DMC4 to himself to begin with, and I expect better from Capcom than releasing games that require supplementary material to understand them.

 

[V's patron]

Considering how boring the anime we got is, yes. Anything aside from "Dante acts depressed and we'll never explain it because this is part of his Cool Loser archetype while he one-shots enemies with bad animation" would be better than what we got. But on the other hand, no. Nero should have gotten DMC4 to himself to begin with, and I expect better from Capcom than releasing games that require supplementary material to understand them.

In that case Nero would need the anime more. Him being the sole protagonist is a bigger sell to the audience at the time.

He was considered more of a mixed bag after 4 came out. So a Nero-centered anime could've eased the blow.

So if DMC6 has an all new cast, an anime could help ease the transition.

 

[Morgan]

In that case Nero would need the anime more. Him being the sole protagonist is a bigger sell to the audience at the time.

He was considered more of a mixed bag after 4 came out. So a Nero-centered anime could've eased the blow.

So if DMC6 has an all new cast, an anime could help ease the transition.

Again, no.
He was only a mixed bag because Dante was there to take the attention off of him and give an already-coddled fanbase "something familiar" after three straight games of the same thing over and over. That's enough.
No protagonist's introduction, new or not, should rely on outside media that could potentially turn out crap before their proper in-game debut. Christ, how are comic fans more accepting about this than DMC fans? I didn't need an extra comic attached to Insomniac's PS4 Spider-Man to "ease" me between that game and the Miles Morales one. I just played the f#cking game, because that's what it is. A game. With gameplay.

 

[V's patron]

Again, no.
He was only a mixed bag because Dante was there to take the attention off of him and give an already-coddled fanbase "something familiar" after three straight games of the same thing over and over. That's enough.
No protagonist's introduction, new or not, should rely on outside media that could potentially turn out crap before their proper in-game debut. Christ, how are comic fans more accepting about this than DMC fans? I didn't need an extra comic attached to Insomniac's PS4 Spider-Man to "ease" me between that game and the Miles Morales one. I just played the f#cking game, because that's what it is. A game. With gameplay.

I disagree about Nero in 4. I don't think removing Dante would help him beyond giving him gameplay options. I think they made a lot of weak choices with him but thats a whole other thread and we should move it there.

I dont think it's neccesity that Nero be eased in. It's just wishful thinking on my part given both the anime and 4 were disappointing. For all I know it could've been a monkeys paw situation. Instead of Dante centered anime that is a bland version of Cowboy Bebop, we could've gotten a Nero centered anime that is a bland version of Samurai champloo.

I concede the argument.

 

[Lady95]

Honestly? No, I don't think so.
Nero's main issues is not related to Dante's presence, but to the fact his whole story and role leans heavily on the twins. His concept borrows plenty of stuff from Dante and Vergil's overall arcs, story and personality, but without the nuances as he's meant to be an healthier and more linear version of them.
An animated prequel wouldn't have done much for him, because he's for the most part clueless to the major events taking place and doesn't really have any interesting relationships to bounch off pre-5.
Regardless of what one might think of it, the anime we've got at least revealed some interesting stuff related to Dante through mirror characters, gave us some insight into his life which was very different from how most people imagined it, showed Lady and Trish's first meeting and introduced Morrison and Patty.

I also agree, with the person that said that Nero should have been developed in-game.

 

[Morgan]

Honestly? No, I don't think so.
Nero's main issues is not related to Dante's presence, but to the fact his whole story and role leans heavily on the twins.

I would personally count that as "presence" -- for instance, Vergil still has a presence in DMC4 even though the narrative declared him dead and he never appeared on screen (and the Special Edition doesn't count). He has a presence because the Angelos are modeled after Nero Angelo, everyone is chasing after the Yamato and ignoring Sparda despite Sparda being the more powerful sword that we knew of, Nero has an affinity to Yamato and fixed its broken state, and Nero directly quotes Vergil's "power" line. His presence is there even when Kobayashi was throwing out needlessly adversarial-to-common-sense lines like "Nero has no relation to Sparda, his design is just for familiarity".

But I get your point.

His concept borrows plenty of stuff from Dante and Vergil's overall arcs, story and personality, but without the nuances as he's meant to be an healthier and more linear version of them.

^ +1. He was conceptualized as a "more serious DMC3 Dante" or "Vergil with a girlfriend" (because men's humanity is stored in women's vaginas whenever it's convenient, according to the writers), so his character arc was already complete in 4 even before he got his DT, he just voiced it out loud when he got his DT. His character is the same from beginning to end with minor changes ("Willing to do anything to protect Kyrie at personal cost to himself" -> "Willing to do anything to protect Kyrie at personal cost to himself") and the only change was how he viewed his demon arm. We learn from interactions that he works for the Order but holds no love for the church, he customizes his own weapons, and he works his missions alone in acknowledgment that he's stronger than his peers (and Credo recognized that too, hence why he trusted Nero to go alone to apprehend a Son of Sparda who should be abominably strong).

The problem is they played coy with his parentage for literally no reason at all and strung fans along with supplementary material of dubious continuity and no understanding of what they established as their own timeline until another game came out like a decade later.

In comparison, Dante's arc in DMC1 never once wavered from his conviction to defeat Mundus, what changed is how he saw Trish throughout his journey, and within a few sentences into the game we learned that a) Dante is a private investigator but runs his "special business" on the side, b) he had demon powers as a child, c) his mother [and brother] died 20 years ago and he's been seeking revenge against the demon responsible, and it didn't take two games for us to get confirmation that he was the Son of Sparda and what he was about, they just went and said it.

The fact that Nero's development and parentage was spread along two whole games, an art book, a novel, and a pachinko game is a symptom of how bullsh#t Capcom's storytelling has gotten and how unreasonably confident they were that they could even keep making DMC games to complete their stories.

Anyway, Nero has the drive to protect, the heart to love a human, and red and blue in his color scheme. He's Diet Sparda where Kyrie is Diet Eva.

Then DMC5 decided he needs yet another character development arc so he becomes this baby with a little brother complex that got so triggered that Dante called him a dead weight once in an emotionally charged moment that he felt compelled to parrot it back at least four separate times in some Marty McFly-style retconned "Nobody calls me chicken!" hang-up that didn't exist before, and he suddenly cares about having lost Credo even when no shred of that was evident in 4 (he didn't even refuse to fight Credo because Credo meant anything to him personally, he refused on the grounds of not wanting to hurt Kyrie by hurting her brother who she cares about). Then Dante and Vergil are so much more unreasonable than he is that he looks like the adult in the room by comparison by getting them to stop their toxic rivalry.

After a game where he temporarily lost the use of his arm, suffered a crisis of identity, got a new [demonic] arm then decided to embrace that change to protect those closest to him when they were most in danger, he got another game where he temporarily lost the use of his arm, suffered a crisis of identity, got a new [mechanical] arm then decided to embrace that change to protect those closest to him when they were most in danger. Only this time he identified even harder and got all up in his feelings about it to where he regrew his natural arm in a regeneration feat we've never seen before. But then he can de-summon his real arm to equip his mechanical arm even though the Devil Bringer's entire conceit in DMC4 was that it could absorb demonic essence for more power, so what he should be doing is feeding the demonic parts from his Breakers straight into his Bringer and replicating the Breaker abilities organically because that is literally what it's there for.

Spoiler: Then again...

This is also the game where Dante clocks Caveliere Angelo as Trish on sight despite no evidence that a male demon is hosting a naked woman as a battery, and his dialogue prior to getting his SDT confirmed he knew that Vergil used the Yamato to separate demon and man literally, but by gosh, he couldn't possibly know who V was even though that guy is reading from Dante's twin brother's favorite book and he knows exactly who Urizen is! And when he saw V about to fuse with Urizen his plan was to run to V on foot instead of whipping out his gun and firing.

But I digress.

An anime series about Nero would inevitably involve him temporarily losing the use of his arm, suffering a crisis of identity, and then maybe just waiting for his arm to heal up. Because that's all the writing team seems to know what to do with him. Repeating the same arcs they had in their previous installment is all the writing team seems to know how to do.

 

[BrawlMan]

r. Only this time he identified even harder and got all up in his feelings about it to where he regrew his natural arm in a regeneration feat we've never seen before. But then he can de-summon his real arm to equip his mechanical arm even though the Devil Bringer's entire conceit in DMC4 was that it could absorb demonic essence for more power, so what he should be doing is feeding the demonic parts from his Breakers straight into his Bringer and replicating the Breaker abilities organically because that is literally what it's there for.

I found this interesting a while back when DMC5 had only been out for a month at the time.

A consistent theme throughout the series is the duality of humanity and demons, and how humanity's desire for justice and ability to love for others channels demonic powers better than the will for domination does. This is why Dante overcame every foe he came up against, even the likes of Vergil, because like Sparda, love gave his blade an edge that malice alone could not muster. Nero manages to overcome Dante and Vergil's malice against each other because in that moment, love for his father and uncle mattered more to him than anything else, and that singular desire gave him the power he needed in that moment to pursue his justice. Dante, for all his human qualities, was fighting on Vergil's level and operating on hatred, whereas Nero's Devil Trigger was backed by a purity of intention that both brothers were lacking at the moment. Sparda would be proud to know that his grandson learned the lesson he wanted to impart on his sons, and by proxy, had to beat it into them to remind them of its value.

This I find fascination, because even the lesser demons have a certain drive to cast better magic, kill faster, etc. when you look at bestiary for them.

• The Lusachia demons are the "evolved" form of the Baphomets, goat like spell casters, evolved so they can cast more spells at a faster pace. How? By evolving mouths all over their body, even on their hands. Their limbs have atrophied and they don't even have eyes anymore. Was It Really Worth It?
• One of the most dangerous enemies in the game, the blood red lizard-like Fury, is similar to the Lusachia above, as they're "evolved" from a more basic enemy, this case the Riots. However, while the former wanted to cast more spells, the Fury just wanted to kill faster. This desire led to to becoming faster and faster, until it had the power to flit through dimensions and become intangible. Imagine being alone, and seeing rapid flashes of red. At that point, you can't even run away. You Are Already Dead.

Nero goes from a smiliar process. He goes from revenge obssessed and seeking apporval from Dante, to protecting whatever remaining family he has left. That desire causes him to grow a new arm and get a devil form. It's Nero's newly formed, strong resolve. So he too goes through his own "evolutionary" process in the entire game.

 

[V's patron]

My original idea was more like than DMC3 manga. It's fun extra material but not necessity. To me Nero's strongest asset is his relationship with Fortuna and the Order. That sets him apart from the others so I don't mind fleshing it out more.

So exploring his early days in the Order in an episodic format would be a good hook for me.

If I had to do an anime with Nero, I'd probably lean into Fortuna more.

 

[ef9dante_oSsshea]

I kind of wish nero had never been introduced lol, i am a die hard fan of dante and vergil and i just can't find much likable about nero

Don't hate him, but i am going to say no to the thread title's question