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Should Developers Listen to their Fans?

Chaos Raiden

Avid Gamer & Reviewer
You'd be forgiven for thinking that, had the deafening sound of applause not erupted at that exact moment , there would have been an audible sigh of relief from the audience. Here we were, guests at the prestigious BAFTA headquarters, being given a lecture by a man most of the Internet, it would seem, wants dead.

Guy ****er, editor at Gamespot UK, and our host for the evening, turned to his interviewee and smiled.

“Who'd have thought we'd get through an entire Q+A session without a single mention of DMC?”

I couldn't help but agree with him.

Announced at this year's Tokyo Games Show, the next entry in the Devil May Cry series has divided public opinion. An initial teaser trailer and a few meagre screenshots are all that have been released, but already there's the smell of boycott in the air. The criticism, as it always does in these situations, started with something major; Dante, people complained, is no longer Dante.

These people have a point. Gone is the white-haired male lead we once knew, replaced by a brunette imposter who seems to have stumbled across his namesake's wardrobe whilst looking for his sister's eye make-up. It didn't take long for the the witch hunt to pick apart every bit of the short clip. Apparently, Dante isn't allowed to smoke now, and according to a vocal group of people, a pre-rendered trailer has already exposed DMC's gameplay as a load of junk.

A single aesthetic decision by Ninja Theory has earned it the wrath of the Internet.


As the world settled down to watch Sony's 2010 E3 press conference, a similar controversy was brewing, one that would go an entirely different way.

Infamous 2 isn't really anything like DMC. It's not a reboot for one, nor is it developed by a different studio than its predecessor. No one really had any reason to complain when its trailer faded to black in front of the world's games press, except for the fact that Cole -- the protagonist of both Infamous and its forthcoming sequel -– was, much like Dante, different.

Fans weren't happy. “Where's the old Cole?” they asked, the one they grew attached to throughout the course of the first game. What right did Sucker Punch, the developer of both games, have to change him?

Faced with an "overwhelmingly negative" fan reaction, Sucker Punch retreated with their tails between their legs. They saw the negative press their decision had received, and they went back on it, silently patting themselves on the back for being 'Oh so in touch with their fans.'

There's this lingering thought that still hangs in the air, though. Did fans dislike 'New Cole' because he was worse, or did they just dislike him because he was different?

Of course, in many respects a lack of change is sensible. If two analog sticks work well to control a first-person shooter, then why should a game break this rule for the sake of being different?

The same could be said of other conventions. For example: Real life shotguns don't actually have very-limited range, but since that's what your audience will expect from your game then you'd be wise to make it that way -- or else they're going to have to spend time to learn your mechanics rather than simply enjoy them.

Then again, isn't variety the spice of life?

The Legend of Zelda is a series which has refused, to this day, to contain voiced characters. They'll whelp, gasp, and even sigh once in a while, but their only dialog is communicated through on-screen text. Is anyone going to seriously argue at this point that a fully voiced Zelda game would be made worse as a result? Or would it simply be different?

There's a vocal minority of gamers out there who hate with a passion the idea of change. It's these people who complained about new Dante, new Cole, and the fact that Sonic's eyes are green in Sonic the Hedgehog 4.

Faced with this response, developers have two choices: They can have the courage to weather the storm and stick to the decisions that they have made, or they can crumple under the weight of a reaction by an audience who, let us not forget, haven't even played their work.

London, like many other cities, is kept in a perpetual warmth by the thousands of motorists who plough through its streets at all hours of the day. It was this warmth which greeted me as I stepped out of the academy's doors into Piccadilly. I performed the three-tap ritual immediately, as one does when leaving any location. Thankfully phone, keys, and wallet could all be found in their correct pockets.

When I looked up it wasn't the crowded pavement that met my gaze which surprised me, but the man standing on it. Tameem Antoniades, lead designer at Ninja Theory met my eye, and extended an arm not out of compassion one assumes, but out of a desire to bring to an end the awkward silence which had replaced the plain silence that had hung in the air not ten seconds previously.

I'll admit now I couldn't help it. I should have turned into the 'suave freelancer', and thanked him for taking the time to do this talk. At the very least I should have become the adoring fan, praised him for Heavenly Sword, and told him how I couldn't wait to get a copy of Enslaved.

I instead assumed the snarky journalist persona, and without thinking asked, “So, how do you feel about the fan reaction to DMC?”

Tameen looked at me a moment and took a drag of his cigarette. Then without blinking, and without pausing to exhale the smoke from his mouth he said, “I don't care.”

And neither should any other developer.

Source: http://bitmob.com/articles/should-developers-listen-to-their-fans


Should developers listen to their fans, or not? Give your opinion, but no flaming or bashing and whatsoever.

I have to say that Tameen has the balls to say "I don't care." towards DmC's negative reception. He's got guts. Perhaps DmC will be a great game after all, or not...
 

Dark Drakan

Well-known Member
Admin
Moderator
Of course developers should listen to their fans, if they arent pleasing the fans or doing whats in the best interests of the fans then they will lose support. Bungie (Halo series) have always listened to fan feedback and made changes to updates/patches/sequels based on Fan Feedback and improved their games from this and have a hardcore community fanbase. Same went for Valve back in the day until they delayed HL Episode 3 which people have been waiting forever for but they have listened to fans before that so the fans respected them for it.

I mean its nice for developers to try new things and experiment with ideas but if they dont listen to fan feedback then sales will dwindle and the series goes downhill. It happened with the Smackdown (wrestling) series, it started out superb and over the years got great. Then fans asked for things to be included in future games and suggested improvements but were ignored by the developers. So sales dried up and series review scores went down as new titles came out. Until the new one set for release soon. The developers realised their past mistakes and wanted to please the fans who have supported them over the years so they started answering questions on Twitter and their forums, listened to fan feedback and tried to include as much as people wanted in the new game as they could. Now the fans are excited again and some sources are saying it will be the best in the series yet.

All that was down to listening to fan feedback and mingling with the community to see their ideas and views of things. I have now preordered that game and its the first wrestling game ive purchased in years and i used to buy EVERY one. So they have my support again now (though i no longer watch wrestling i enjoy it) for merely listening to fans and going out of their way to please them. Id say that deserves my money as they have spent the time trying to do what we want.
 

Meg

Well-known Member
Moderator
I think they should take fan opinion into consideration, like they are getting concrit, but they shouldn't bend to their every whim. Its impossible to make everyone happy after all. Think about it. Lots of people dislike the new Dante, but there are people who do. If NT changes him they will excite one half and disappoint the other. In the case I think they just need to do what they feel is right.
 

Chaos Raiden

Avid Gamer & Reviewer
Dark Drakan;283807 said:
Of course developers should listen to their fans, if they arent pleasing the fans or doing whats in the best interests of the fans then they will lose support. Bungie (Halo series) have always listened to fan feedback and made changes to updates/patches/sequels based on Fan Feedback and improved their games from this and have a hardcore community fanbase. Same went for Valve back in the day until they delayed HL Episode 3 which people have been waiting forever for but they have listened to fans before that so the fans respected them for it.

I mean its nice for developers to try new things and experiment with ideas but if they dont listen to fan feedback then sales will dwindle and the series goes downhill. It happened with the Smackdown (wrestling) series, it started out superb and over the years got great. Then fans asked for things to be included in future games and suggested improvements but were ignored by the developers. So sales dried up and series review scores went down as new titles came out. Until the new one set for release soon. The developers realised their past mistakes and wanted to please the fans who have supported them over the years so they started answering questions on Twitter and their forums, listened to fan feedback and tried to include as much as people wanted in the new game as they could. Now the fans are excited again and some sources are saying it will be the best in the series yet.

All that was down to listening to fan feedback and mingling with the community to see their ideas and views of things. I have now preordered that game and its the first wrestling game ive purchased in years and i used to buy EVERY one. So they have my support again now (though i no longer watch wrestling i enjoy it) for merely listening to fans and going out of their way to please them. Id say that deserves my money as they have spent the time trying to do what we want.

I agree, but not all developers would like to hear fans' opinions... Only a few developers will do that, like Bioware. I think big time companies like Capcom, Square Enix, Sony, etc that have their own internal developers should listen to the fans opinions for a change.


If I am not mistaken, the developers for Smackdown vs. Raw games are Yuke's, right? I am surprised to find out that the company is from Japan, and not from U.S..
 

Richtofen

Nein, not ze puppies!
Premium
I think developers should listen the the fans...after all, isn't it us their trying to appeal too? Without us there is no "DMC" or "Halo" ect ect. We, as fans, make the game popular and give it a reason to become popular and expand. There are some really great theories that Capcom could have used for a DMC game but if they want to be ignorant to the fans and smack together a quick game for money because they think we will buy it as long as it has a trademark name...they are dead wrong.

I admit that Tameen does have balls to say "I don't care" but people can get the wrong impression from that statement. I believe he meant he doesn't care about the fan reaction because he's doing what he wants to do for the game, his way and how he wants it to be portrayed.
 

LordOfDarkness

The Dark Avenger © †
Moderator
Premium Elite
Premium
Supporter 2014
Xen-Omni 2020
I think and feel that every Company respectfully has a right to do as they so wish with their own creations. But they should at least consider the fans, when we are making them their profit. Like I have said before, they are nothing without us.

I'm debating this with the new Devil may Cry Reboot, in another Thread already. And I think that Companies should have the respect and decency to accept feedback from fans. As Meg said, and I agree; they shouldn't design everything to suit their fans. But if a huge margin of fans are demanding something, and they don't listen and ultimately fail to deliver in the end. Well then, that would be their own fault for not listening.

Fans are going to know what it is that they love, about what they love. And if they start changing certain things, and it isn't sounding so positive, that isn't going to be a good sign. I'm all for saying Companies should have the right to experiment. But within the boundaries, to still listen and hear the fans out.
 

Dark Drakan

Well-known Member
Admin
Moderator
Chaos Master;283820 said:
If I am not mistaken, the developers for Smackdown vs. Raw games are Yuke's, right? I am surprised to find out that the company is from Japan, and not from U.S..

Yeah Yukes are from Japan and its published by THQ in US. All the guys ive seen giving interviews and development Q&A sessions have been American.
 

DreadnoughtDT

God of Hyperdeath
Premium
Supporter 2014
Honestly, Tameem's got guts. And I'm sure he meant "I don't care" to the people that will complain about any changes. Who are the minority, I would like to point out.

I say we let this go, and if and when they decide a true DMC5 isn't worth it, that's when we start complaining.
 

GamblingGambitCloud

LoD Come Back!!!
the ideal is yes....but after thinking about the matter further....the answer is truly no....i mean...yes it's the fans' decision in the end and they're the ones buying the game....but in all honesty, i don't believe that companies should make games that they aren't comfortable with just to make SOME people happy....i believe that they need to do what they need to do and they need to be trusted in that...some of the greatest creations are those that many people didn't approve of at first...and i think that personally, if i made a game, i would rather create a game that i believe is perfect and the exact way that i want it rather than something i just threw together because "they wanted it that way".....i think that as a community...gamers need to start seeing developers as people too and not just something that bends to your will because you're the one buying...conversely i think developers need to CONSIDER SUGGESTIONS from the fans...there needs to be a balance...but the community in general needs to be open-minded and allow for new things

A game only fails when the creators aren't 100% behind it...if it's not the game they want or expect it to be, it's not going to be a game we enjoy...PERIOD
 

GamblingGambitCloud

LoD Come Back!!!
A.$h!nati;283999 said:
Yes they should , look what NT did to the new Dante and no one is happy about this change

let's not bring that debate to this thread or section of the forum...some like it...some don't...if u like it play it and if u don't u don't....simple
 

Angelo Credo

Kept you waiting, huh?
No.

And before you jump down my throat, hear me out here. Game devs tend to listen to the most vocal groups, those groups tend to be the aggressive, pushy minority of the fanbase, thus nine times out of ten, when devs do listen to the fans, they end up implementing craptastic ideas that only an extremely vocal 5 or 10% actually want.
 

Meg

Well-known Member
Moderator
^ And because they are the vocal minority the company will think they have done something right? Scary thought. ._.
 

Angelo Credo

Kept you waiting, huh?
Meg;284034 said:
^ And because they are the vocal minority the company will think they have done something right? Scary thought. ._.

You got it.
Companies fulfil the wishes of the minority because the majority don't step up and say anything, hell, they don't even complain when the minority are catered to, thus the developer hits a slippery slope of consistently adding crap to their games, ergo their products gradually decrease in quality until we end up with...Well.

*Points at Ubisoft/Infinity Ward/Treyarch/Square Enix/Bungie*
Feel free to add to that list ad infinitum.
 

aka958

Don't trust people
Angelo Credo;284036 said:
You got it.
Companies fulfil the wishes of the minority because the majority don't step up and say anything, hell, they don't even complain when the minority are catered to, thus the developer hits a slippery slope of consistently adding crap to their games, ergo their products gradually decrease in quality until we end up with...Well.

*Points at Ubisoft/Infinity Ward/Treyarch/Square Enix/Bungie*
Feel free to add to that list ad infinitum.

I don't think Square Enix has failed. :\
Sure their main series of Final Fantasy hasn't been the best, but all the Kingdom Hearts games, Dragon Quest games, Final Fantasy spin offs, Parasite Eve, and alot more is still pretty damn sucessfull if you ask me. :p
 

Dante's Stalker

"Outrun this!"
Premium
Supporter 2014
Should developers listen to their fans, or not? Give your opinion, but no flaming or bashing and whatsoever.

No.
Developers can hear what the fans have to say and hear their opinions, but I don't think any developer should 'listen' to their fans. The developers are in control, they put the hard work into it, they take the effort to produce something good for the fans. And that's the way it should be. The fans may have a certain degree of power, but they're not in control.
 

LordOfDarkness

The Dark Avenger © †
Moderator
Premium Elite
Premium
Supporter 2014
Xen-Omni 2020
Whereas I agree with some people's points here, I have to intervene. Where is it polite and respectful to ignore the people that are making you your profit? If I was rude to customers at my work place and didn't listen to them, I would get fired. If a Doctor was rude and didn't listen, and didn't perform the right procedure, they would get fired. In any case, if we didn't do want people/customers/fans wanted, we wouldn't have a job. So where is 'the customer is always right' in games/films and books? It seems that the only place that the 'customer' is truly ignored, is in the media job areas. So why should they ignore their fans?

The point doesn't lie in the fact that they would listen to the wrong fans, asking for the wrong things. And the point doesn't lie in the fact that they made the thing to begin with. The point lies in the fact that if nobody brought their product, then their product was rubbish. And people only brought it for their own reasons of liking it. So they need to understand with their things where their 'true selling points' lie.

The reason Companies don't listen to fans, or try harder to listen; is because it would be too time consuming, and they would need to rush to get it out there.

People's lives are short, and we can't wait for years and years to find out what is going on next in anything. That is why all these things are rushed nowadays, and I mostly find that disappointing. I'd be happy to be patient and wait, but the majority are not. So things will continue, we will be ignored, and not everybody is going to be satisfied.

They should listen to their fans. But they don't have to do what they say. They have their own backbone. But they should at least respect our views/wishes.
 

DreadnoughtDT

God of Hyperdeath
Premium
Supporter 2014
The thing is that it's a no because the "fans" they listen to are the minority, the fans who claim to be hardcore and complain about every little thing.
 
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