Sexism and sexuality in games.

[V]

I think a certain number of people bizarrely believe that CoD is incredibly accurate, or something. Like, because they are experts at CoD they suddenly 'know their stuff' when it comes to talking about real weapons and what exactly happens when you throw a grenade into some terrorist LUP.

I have friends who've been in combat in Iraq and elsewhere who also play CoD but play it tongue in cheek, because apparently it's hardly 'realistic'. Not a single one of them says it's like "the real thing" in anything but technical details and is basically just a platform to shoot your mates on, with paintballing being far more realistic than CoD ever is. It's fantasy too, just with restrictions and some label about how realistic it is in terms of current gen shooters. I don't think anyone who would rather push buttons than sign up should be overly concerned about the levels of 'realism' there but apparently they do go some way toward 'selling a game' to some people. . .

I'm sort of divided on it. I don't mind if characters are unrealistic in games, which are escapism - so you cannot expect it to reflect real-world values and attitudes very precisely... but it depends on context I suppose, and at the end of the day there is no reason you can't have unrealistic values and attitudes and objectification in there, though at some point they're likely to offend. If a dev is going out of their way to market a game as ultra-realistic, then you expect realism from them... so CoD being sans women isn't surprising, not that I think it makes a whole lot of difference if women where there unless you're seriously emotionally-invested in the franchise as it is, which I'm not. Stuff like Resident Evil is definitely fantasy, but when I saw Redfield's design in 5 I was genuinely wondering why he had gone from generic anime-looking hero to 'roid popper. I guess that was CAPCOM's attempt to appeal to Western 'macho' expectations? Either way, it jarred to me because it was just weird. I understand why they did if so, but I still thought is there a need? When you see a developer from another country attempting to appeal to what 'they think' are your tastes evidently the results can end up a bit... odd. Feels a bit disparaging, maybe. Same with Sheva's very-whiteness (although that's another debate for another day). So I guess my concern with his 'look' wasn't a cry against 'fantasy', it was a cry against what I'm being shown increasingly is the "most desirable male stereotype here"? Some kind of convergence toward lead male characters all showing the same sorts of qualities and appearance? Frankly I find that 'generic marine' template overused but if that is what he is supposed to be then that is what he is supposed to be. Like the guy said in that talk though, developers are in the advantageous position of being able to set standards which may influence future games, and even people's attitudes. And right now most of them are converging on what's familiar and safe out of fear that their product won't sell. A lot of them are NOT exercising their position to change the way we see heroes and heroines in a way that will actually come back and benefit the industry in the long term.

Some developers now though don't just make characters on whim, they actually research into what they think people want, so it's an interesting thing to see someone take a look at your society and then chuck up these incarnations they think you might like. New Dante and Kat are a good example, seems they went to lengths to redesign based on what young Westerners now think of as cool or sexy in the target demographic. Also kind of amusing to see this 'study' given back to you.

 

[IncarnatedDemon]

Thinking about Anita Sarkeesian and what she has started in gaming industry, i am left with a thought of disgust at that person (note: person, not female).

I had a thought the other day of making a game about a war that breaks out between females and males.

In beginning men and women coexist and many of them are married and they love eachother. But then a extremist female (who wants to enslave men) kills two of females and puts them on a display in most brutal way in middle of a village. She then frames the brutal murder on a group of extremist males.

Over time the extremist female who murdered her fellow sisters, establishes a head quarter for other females to join her for the cause of enslaving men.

And the group of extremist females start their plan, and first step is to kill men so that they are few. They use deception (get innocent men to fall in love with them, and one night they kill them).

Paranoia spreads among men as more and more of them are being killed by females. Fast forward even men and a women who are deeply in love with eachother eventually are split apart by the man killing the woman because he suspects she is a extreme female or the woman leaves the man and joins the extremist females at their headquarters.
Eventually men and women are segrated with each their own bases. Woman take to the skies while men are masters of the earth (surface ground and below).

a centuary goes by and the two genders have now established methods to increase their numbers by creating babies with magic.

That´s when the tale begins of a man and a woman who meet at age of around 6-8 years by coincedence. Both sides of the human gender teach the babies/kids to look at opposite gender as enemy, this is enforced most at the female side where men are portrayed as horrible, brutal and angry monsters.
And the kids who are taught about their enemy are only shown the adult version of their enemy (i.e not children stage).

So these two humans meet, a female and a male, and both of them have not been a human that came to the world through union of a man and a woman.

They both know what the opposite sex looks like in adult stage. They meet at the age of 7, and both react with curiosity "What are you?"
The male child says "I am a boy, what are u?"
The female child replies "I am a girl"

And the conversation between these two innocent children continue, and they both check eachother´s body out.
The boy says "You look like boys but ur to thin :O"
And so on. They become friends and their innocent minds do not care about their gender and that their genders are at war.
At one point the boy suffers a wound in his cheeks which leaves a scar (a monster attacks the two friends). The girl heals him (females excel at many things, one noteable being healing).



Then comes next act in the story, where the two meet again in adult stage during a small encounter between the two genders (females and males).
The boy who is now a man is wearing a full helmet that protects his head. And he faces a female.

He looses to this female, and somehow the helmet is taken off and the woman is getting ready to kill the man when she notices the scar on his cheek.


And thats when the story starts for real. A story between two friends.
No, the woman does not kill the man even though she was raised up to hate men and kill them. And was told they are savage beasts who hate female.

The two friends are shocked when they realize who stands before them.

From here the story progresses to expose a lie that non extremist females have been fed by the extremist female leader.
What really happened to the two females that were killed a centuary ago (female extremist leader killing them) that started the segreation and the war is revealed to both sides.

The two friends both protect each other from danger. The man would kill any of his kin( his male kin) if they touch the woman and the woman feels the same way about the man.



THEMES: Gender war, lie, hatred, paranoia, innocence, propaganda, love, equality




Felt the need to just share this with you guys/girls

 

[Loopy]

Thinking about Anita Sarkeesian and what she has started in gaming industry, i am left with a thought of disgust at that person (note: person, not female).

Just forget about her. This woman will have her moment of fame and then vanish.

I had a thought the other day of making a game about a war that breaks out between females and males.

In beginning men and women coexist and many of them are married and they love eachother. But then a extremist female (who wants to enslave men) kills two of females and puts them on a display in most brutal way in middle of a village. She then frames the brutal murder on a group of extremist males.

Why does it have to be extremist women who start this? And why would anyone want to make a game about this? It would just give these exact extreme people fuel to carry out their extreme ideas and give them justification to do it.
Besides, according to some very srtange guys on forums, men are already slaves to women.>_<

Over time the extremist female who murdered her fellow sisters, establishes a head quarter for other females to join her for the cause of enslaving men.

And the group of extremist females start their plan, and first step is to kill men so that they are few. They use deception (get innocent men to fall in love with them, and one night they kill them).

This just sounds like the fantasy of a man who has been rejected by women, and then starts calling them all 'femnazi bitches' who want to kill all men, and women who do not agree.
It doesn't help anyone. Why would women want to kill men? Just kill men because they are men? There's no reason for why this woman would want to do this.

Sure, maybe if she had been raped or lived in a world where women had just broken free of male violence and slavery...maybe then the actions of this women would make sense. She'd want to make men suffer just like they made women suffer. But still, I don't like that idea at all. We already have enough problems in the real world with men being called rapists, useless, drunks, drugies and child molestors, even when they aren't. It's not fair to say all men are like that when only a few sickos do that.

And it wouldn't help anyone to portray women into extreme man hating killers in a game. It would give justification to the weirdos I've seen on forums saying this exact same thing, about how women are man haters, how they want to kill men and how they don't trust women and want to kill them. It goes both ways. You get extreme men and women.

From here the story progresses to expose a lie that non extremist females have been fed by the extremist female leader.
What really happened to the two females that were killed a centuary ago (female extremist leader killing them) that started the segreation and the war is revealed to both sides.

Or the big twist could be that the female leader was a man who became a women using surgery. Now that would be a twist. A man hating men who wanted to become a woman to manipulate other women to kill men and start a war. So you'd have male manipulation of females and the question of gender identity.
But really, it's not a good idea to be perpetuating this. There are already enough men with these ideas about women being man haters, feminists (in a bad way), sl-ts and whores.
And there are women who think all men are rapists and child molestors and should be castrated. Extreme men and women are disgusting.

I know your idea is to show how men and women can get along, but this game seems like the wrong way to do it. It just seems like it could bring back old wounds and give extreme people a justification to do these terrible things. And as for people who do not think in an extreme way; they would not need the game because they do not hate or want to kill the opposite gender.

I'm not sure where this hatred for opposite gender starts...maybe it is taught by adults during childhood, or maybe because of a bad experience as an adult...but if people really want to make a change, start teaching children to just be nice to each other and to help each other out.

 

[Angel]

Let me be a little clearer lol.
I have no issue with people wanting realism or games with realism, WHEN they start out that way.

When games go from over the top unbelievable fantasy to realistic relatable characters crying, then i have an issue with it.
Going from i wanna take on a God to lets spensd 8hrs watching them get to know the inner them isn't something i want for already existing unrealistic characters & situations.

Ah, now I think I'm on the same page as you Yeah, that sort of thing is, to me, poor writing and character development. It's like someone chucked it in as an afterthought rather than something they had planned to implement from the beginning. They should be clear from the outset as to what sort of character and style they are intending to provide rather than a rather slapdash false representation of what they think the audience is looking for.

 

[SugarMoon]

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That's what i hate about games today. ​

Trying to be realistic in a fantasy world. ​

I can't stand it at times. ​

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When i play a game i don't want to see characters being realistic in fantasy situations, i relate to some game character. I want to be lost in the fantasy. ​

I no desires to have some game character represent my life, my feelings, my thoughts, my actions. That's a reason i disliked the TombRaider Reboot​

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I couldn't agree more. To me, the more realistic and relatable the world is, the more it becomes bland and dull. This is a game. A chance for people to create worlds that others couldn't imagine would exist. Things that could boggle the mind. Not this realistic stuff. That's why it irks me when people say things like "that can't happen in real life" Why limit the imagination?

Sidenote: I read a discussion where a guy stated that it would be silly if a woman were to do more HP damage then a male would since its not realistic. While reading it I was thinking to myself "this is a game where people are stabbed in the neck and still live why are you introducing the argument of realism in a game like this?"

 

[V]

I'd prefer equal sexualisation than none at all, or prefer it to any sort of censorship of sexuality/sexualising in games, tbh. For men to be made into lust objects in the same way women are is fair, (Dante in DmC for example almost doing the exactly flying through the air stuff that Gloria does in DMC4, only he's actually naked). There's the argument it's silly and over the top but I still believe sex shouldn't be less acceptable than violence, and I don't think violence is going to come to an end in games any time soon, and neither is sexualisation so fairness is the only way to go.

 

[IncarnatedDemon]

Trish game wud be awesome.

 

[V]

That's where i think Capcom should've went with the DevilMayCry series. ​

A few titles focused on the women of the series. ​

Trish & her contribution with a well thought out back story. ​

Lady with her own storyline before she meets Dante. ​

Lucia & whatever happens with & how events unfolds in her life. ​

​

The opportunities for more female integration in games is there, all developers have to do is be a little more willing to take it.​

One the plus points of DMC2 I thought. That's not going to happen anymore I guess (another char getting their whole own disk/story's worth), but some decent DLC for other characters would be interesting. Dante is great and all, but I do think it would have been great to play as someone else (female) too.

 

[darkslayer13]

If i had a gaming company i'd slowly saturate the gaming market with female lead characters. I'd alternate between genders in game series.
Like DeadSpace was about isaac, DeadSpace 2 would star a female lead.

that is the wrong approach. if the only point to a character is that the character is female then their is no point to the character and you are just unnecessarily avoiding the actual main character. true equality would mean that the gender of the character is only important if it affects the events of the story. by alternating you are drawing attention to it and telling people that male and female characters are more different then they really are.
if a series always has one main character then it should always have that main character. if you change the main character to fulfill some pointless quota fans will resent you. increasing the number of female main characters in games should be done naturally ( eg. when starting a new series or when it becomes necessary to change the main character of a series.) a forced approach will hurt your cause even if it increases the number of female characters.

 

[Ryuuou]

Just to Angels first post. That was well said with truth speak of words.

On to the subject. Taking Resident Evil 4 as an example. Since that's what I'm playing lately. I like playing Ada instead of Leon but that's because she has cooler kicking moves and climbing moves. So there goes feminism to attack the guys again. I don't mind. Just saying. Has nothing to do with the look or anything. To be honest the term '' Sexuality'' is like a common curse in modern times. To some point it's a natural thing in all of us but there are limits of how many times you have to talk about it and how far you are willing to go for such things. Those things wont last. In extreme situations those are merely illusions of solving reality with temporary solutions. I should not talk since I can be an idiot at it at times too.

Just one statement. Is this humans last resort of becoming one with each other since we live in the near apocalyptic days?
If so that's a bad reaction and low thinking. I'm thinking sometimes. Does the internet activity from the satelites or the power that produces electricity affect humans in a way that makes many crazy or mad? Maybe it's those nukes in the second world war that is affecting something. I don't know but maybe some bad rays around our technology might be causing some of it?
Sorry for bringing such thoughts up but this has been bothering me for a while. I just wonder if anyone of you have similiar thoughts? Of course rays are not the only thing that affects humans. There are lots of factors but maybe that's some of the main problems? Thoughts?

 

[darkslayer13]

Wrong.
Alternating main characters isn't something new & has been successful, look at SilentHill.
Even ResidentEvil has done it.
Why do you think i said DeadSpace ?
The storyline in DeadSpace is very open to different encounters with the Marker......Markers
Meaning DeadSpace can involve other characters (Yes female main) & their encounters with a Marker without damaging the series itself.
It's a way keeping it fresh & not growing stale with the character repeatedly used in the same situations by the 3rd title.
New character, different personality, fresh outlook on the situations.

in some series changing main character works in some it does not. making it standard policy in a misguided effort to create equality will receive a negative reaction when it fails and no reaction when it works. (oh and is it a coincidence that you listed 3 survival horror franchises). sometimes a new main character is a good way to keep things fresh and other times it is just a waste of time. if one character's story isn't done yet switching to another character is harmful to the story and will only make the replacement character hated and a new character created just to be new (or to fulfill a quota) will not be as good of a character as a character created because the story needs that character. characters should exist because the story and the setting will be improved by the presence of that character any other reason is harmful to the story.