RIP Terminal Reality :(

[xMobilemux]

Gamers seemed to enjoy it 9.2 average (sold 8.5 million individual episodes by end of 2012) and has been praised for revitalising the adventure genre. Not to mention winning over 90 "Game of the Year" awards so technically we do have a good Walking Dead title, along with being voted studio of the year (and praised by developers across the board).

Gamers enjoy Call of Duty, Battlefield, Assassins Creed and they're being praised across the board too, that doesn't mean they deserve it.

Lots 0f opinion being voiced as fact right here, yeah there are a couple of technical hiccups here and there but nothing at all game breaking. Some great writing, voice acting was damn good (dont know how much you played). Yeah Jurassic Park was slated worldwide seemingly and Back to The Future werent great either but both The Walking Dead and The Wolf Among Us were VERY positively received by gamers/reviewers and critics alike. Still they arent a big studio with a big publisher backing so they only have the budget of an indie studio so that limits their technical aspects somewhat.

The Walking Dead and Telltale ARE s**t to me, I never said it was fact, you and Chancy just assumed as usual, Chancy comes at me saying the 2 Bloodrayne games are s**t, Borderlands is boring and so on, I really don't give a f**k cause they're his opinions, but he can't handle my opinion on his beloved Telltale and Walking Dead garbage so he always has to get these arguments started up by calling me a Michael Bay hound or explosion fanboy.

They are actually being referred to as the HBO of gaming because they are bringing peoples favourite comics/books etc to life into the gaming world and gamers are loving it.

Don't care what people are calling them, until they do their own thing, they're leeches.

You are praising games like Quake/Borderlands/Doom and Duke and using the word 'story' in the same sentence. There is no story aspects just moving from one AI enemy to the next while progression is handed to you in way of more powerful weaponry to dispatch enemies with. Im a big FPS fan but they arent a genre that requires much thought and most involve mindless shooting from level to level. There is no consequence or repercussions for your actions in most FPS titles and no emotion involved in the majority unless they do put story before the need to simple kill hundreds of faceless, personality-less AI enemies. No point comparing their style to FPS games anyway as they are a million miles apart in the gaming world and arent there to compete with them, they offer a different take.

I wasn't comparing FPSs to Telltales games, FPS games are far more entertaining than their crap, I was using old school FPSs as an example of rewarding story telling, those old school shooters did have good stories, you just had to figure them out yourself instead of them being thrown in your face like every game today, therefor, games today, Telltale included are treating you like a moron.

Telltale I felt didnt treat you like an idiot, they made the choices yours to make and you had to live with the consequences of those choices. They even follow you into the sequel, anyone who dies in first game is gone and they are gone for good so you really have to think outside the box for the consequences of your actions. Now this IS evolution and making emotion a part of the experience and involving you in the telling of the games story. Its not being pushed in your face its telling a story to you and how it plays out is down to you. Not about huge action sequences or explosions/gun fights its about the experience as a whole and I personally welcome that change.

Now you're assuming explosions/gun fights and s**t is all I want again? -_-

I mean I get its not your thing and your entitled to your opinion but seems a little patronising to be calling them **** developers who dont take risks. They took a huge risk taking on a well loved comic/TV series and by going for a genre that isnt as popular as your standard FPS games and it often seems the easy way out opting to go for the FPS genre for some licenses. Also using a child as the main character in such a dark world in Season 2 might be seen by some to be taking a huge risk. They are the first developers in a very long time to make me genuinely care about what happens to the characters and for me thats a big deal.

They don't take risks at all, doing little things like going in the cutscene based direction with an established franchise is not taking a risk. Until they create their own IPs, they're unoriginal leeches, nothing more.

 

[Dark Drakan]

*sigh* like banging your head against a wall speaking to modern gamers these days. I miss the days when people stuck to what they liked & didn't speak s*** about companies/Series simply because they personally don't like them. Or because they have found success when companies they like haven't.

I didn't state/assume what you wanted, merely stating a point of view of a game that's open to interpretation. Your assuming everyone should think the same thing as you & everyone who doesn't is wrong. However your current attitude won't get you anywhere in life & confrontational aura you give off that your opinion is superior to others will wear thin fast. People stating opinions as facts is the staple of today's gamers.

The Walking Dead was one of those few games that gave me feels.

The last one before that was probably Red Dead Redemption. That ending was a bummer. I know people who cried.

Yeah I was the same & I wasn't a fan of the point & click genre but since then I loved The Walking Dead & The Wolf Among Us. Again I was the same with Red Dead, I'm not a Western fan but it was one of my favourite games in a long time. That ending (like the walking deads) surprised me & both took huge risks with them.

 

[xMobilemux]

*sigh* like banging your head against a wall speaking to modern gamers these days. I miss the days when people stuck to what they liked & didn't speak s*** about companies/Series simply because they personally don't like them. Your attitude won't get you anywhere in life & confrontational aura you give off that your opinion is superior to others will wear thin fast. People stating opinions as facts is the staple of today's gamers.

How am I supposed to stick to what I like when everything I like is being turned into the s**t I hate?
I miss the days when gaming was actually good and innovative instead of today where everything is streamlined to hell and back in order to sell more.
If you and the others like The Walking Dead games and Telltale games, fine, that's you I don't care, I'm not gonna call you story hounds or anything, that's YOUR taste.
But being called a Michael Bay/explosion hound just because I don't like a story company that's loved is just pathetic.

 

[Dark Drakan]

How am I supposed to stick to what I like when everything I like is being turned into the s**t I hate?
I miss the days when gaming was actually good and innovative instead of today where everything is streamlined to hell and back in order to sell more.
If you and the others like The Walking Dead games and Telltale games, fine, that's you I don't care, I'm not gonna call you story hounds or anything, that's YOUR taste.
But being called a Michael Bay/explosion hound just because I don't like a story company that's loved is just pathetic.

Labelling anyone is silly, everyone has different tastes & that's what makes the world interesting. Can't blame people for games you like turning into something you 'hate', very strong word to use when your speaking about a media product though. You might not like Telltale coming near Borderlands but they aren't going to effect the series or touch the games you do like. They are doing a different take on it to appeal to those that might not play the series already. If anything they will help bring more fans into your beloved series, it won't harm it (I will play both).

I've been gaming for over 20 years (running gaming forums for over 11) & this is the first time in some time I'm excited by developers steering clear of the same recycled crap year after year (Telltale were like a breath of fresh air in the industry). You may not like them or their style & I was dubious at first but I'm a convert & speak to them over Twitter & have nothing but respect for those guys. Been some time since we saw a company do anything decent with a license but they have done brilliantly with walking dead & I'm excited for Game of Thrones. 2 other companies have attempted both & failed, I have faith that Telltale will do well with Game of Thrones too.

FPS games need a revamp as they are starting to show their age & like I said I'm a BIG FPS fan. Games are being 'streamlined' because of gamers who don't want to have to think, don't want deep stories & want their hands held through games.

 

[xMobilemux]

Labelling anyone is silly, everyone has different tastes & that's what makes the world interesting. Can't blame people for games you like turning into something you 'hate', very strong word to use when your speaking about a media product though. You might not like Telltale coming near Borderlands but they aren't going to effect the series or touch the games you do like. They are doing a different take on it to appeal to those that might not play the series already. If anything they will help bring more fans into your beloved series, it won't harm it.

It's not just about the Borderlands thing, since I'm a huge Borderlands fan, I might try their game in a steam sale and I know it's not gonna hurt the franchise, I'll admit I overreacted back on the other thread.
But the main thing I mean where everything I like turning into things I hate is just like what happened to Tomb Raider and DmC, they are the biggest and most recent offenders, everything I loved in both franchises was removed and there was nothing for me to enjoy in either of them, now Tomb Raider is forever dead to me, you know as well as I do Tomb Raider will never be the same again, DMC however has a chance at winning me back, which is btw the only reason I'm still here on this forum.

 

[Dark Drakan]

The reboots were always going to be tough to swallow as they were messing with established franchises. They were interfering with the series & being developed in place of the titles people knew & loved. However both franchises had hit a wall with developers/publishers & needed a way to get people's attention again. Love them or hate them they made the series relevant again & both may have totally disappeared without reboots. At least you have a chance of seeing the game you want return at some point after those games.

 

[xMobilemux]

As I said, with DMC it's very possible, the reboot failed and the original series return is in massive demand.
Tomb Raider however is a lost cause, it'll never be the same again, Tomb Raider 2013 was dumbed down with every possible modern gameplay cliche, the only improvement it did, was in story telling and the game is the best selling in the franchise, it'll never return to form.

FPS games need a revamp as they are starting to show their age & like I said I'm a BIG FPS fan. Games are being 'streamlined' because of gamers who don't want to have to think, don't want deep stories & want their hands held through games.

That's why me and many others are trying to get developers to realize the true magic of the Old School Shooter, developers and even most of the gamers are making the same mistake over and over again by thinking it just means killing countless enemies in a point A to point B game mode, it's not.
That's what I was talking about when old school shooters had good stories told through their level design and gameplay and the player had to figure it out. Flying Wild Hog and Interceptor Entertainment got the closest with Shadow Warrior and Rise of the Triad respectively, but they still made the same mistakes.

 

[Dark Drakan]

It could never survive in today's market as it was back then. I really liked 1 & 2 then they got worse every year. I tried new one & although it wasn't as good as 1 or 2 I thought it was better than some of the later ones. However that style of game (originals) would feel much to dated in today's market. The series was always lagging behind year after year & other games overtook it & improved when it went downhill. Without a change it was already dead, at least they can salvage some new fans because old series/fans are long gone. I would always much rather see a series continue (even if it's going in a direction I personally don't like) than for it to die & be gone forever. Though don't want a series to be milked for sake of it & be turned into nothing more than a cash cow.

 

[xMobilemux]

It could never survive in today's market as it was back then. I really liked 1 & 2 then they got worse every year. I tried new one & although it wasn't as good as 1 or 2 I thought it was better than some of the later ones. However that style of game (originals) would feel much to dated in today's market. The series was always lagging behind year after year & other games overtook it & improved when it went downhill. Without a change it was already dead, at least they can salvage some new fans because old series/fans are long gone. I would always much rather see a series continue (even if it's going in a direction I personally don't like) than for it to die & be gone forever. Though don't want a series to be milked for sake of it & be turned into nothing more than a cash cow.

I can agree with the later games, TR2 is my favorite in the franchise and if they planned on giving it a HD remake I would happily accept, but everything after TR2 was just lacking, I didn't love, nor hate Legend, Anniversary or Underworld but I did enjoy them as they still had most of the stuff I loved about Tomb Raider. The reboot just ruined and removed everything Tomb Raider.
IMO I think that some of the stuff from that past that is claimed to be "dated" by modern gamers, can actually be something new and refreshing in todays market.
I like that Titanfall is apparently bringing the twitch shooter gameplay back to the market, while Titanfalls flaw is being multiplayer only, if Titanfall makes the twitch shooter a popular trend then other developers can take that twitch shooter gameplay and combine it with the old school level design that I've been trying to explain to devs, then we've got an idea for an FPS I'd kill to play.

 

[Dark Drakan]

For me FPS games should start blending lines with RPG's & having some elements cross over. Just want deeper stories, more customisation & more choice & for them to stop merely upping the body/destruction count with each game & not advancing more important areas. Want to have more characters to care about rather than same generic/stereotype characters year after year.

TitanFall is trying lots of new ideas & I respect them for that & I will purchase it. However with multiplayer only the story is only going to be diluted even more but I shall not buy it for its story (like most FPS titles). I don't buy or enjoy Battlefield for its story as that is its weakest element. I buy it for its excellent team based multiplayer.

 

[xMobilemux]

TitanFall is trying lots of new ideas & I respect them for that & I will purchase it. However with multiplayer only the story is only going to be diluted even more but I shall not buy it for its story (like most FPS titles). I don't buy or enjoy Battlefield for its story as that is its weakest element. I buy it for its excellent team based multiplayer.

There's no reason other developers can't take those slick ideas and combine them with a great story driven FPS adventure as well as the old school level design, that's a game I'd love to play and that's really the point I've been trying to make when talking about Gameplay > Story and such.
Quake, Duke3D etc had that excellent fast paced gameplay with a figure it out yourself kind of story, but games these days have in your face stories with streamlined gameplay. Both have problems for todays audience and old school audience.
It doesn't have to just apply to FPSs, take the great Jak and Daxter trilogy, it has a great story with equally great gameplay, it's just perfect.
Why can't anyone pull that off again in todays market?
A game that has great gameplay with an equally great single player story.
The problem is these days is everyone is trying to make the story superior to the gameplay in everything.

 

[Dark Drakan]

Think that's why I have enjoyed Telltales games, you dislike them for your own reasons but to me they take me back to days of old. Games these days put to much emphasis on GFX over everything & the point & click genre is old school & back to basics. Might be story driven but very few games these days have had such memorable characters/relationships. Gameplay is old school point & click & even though I was never a fan of them in past I have enjoyed the nostalgic feeling it brought to the table. Doesn't hide behind action/explosions & fancy GFX, everything is laid bare to gamers.

Quake, Doom, Duke, Serious Sam have all not aged well, they were revolutionary for the time but have been left behind & feel dated these days. Last games in all those series weren't received well & they need to evolve again. Bulletstorm was last FPS that tried that old school style that I played & it was reviewed quite well & Cliff Bleszinski is talking about bringing arena shooters back to PC. Not many that have tried recently have done so well however.

 

[xMobilemux]

Quake 4 was sub par, but I personally enjoyed it, Doom 3 upset the fanbase cause it wasn't the crowd control shooter everyone wanted, DNF was obviously because of it's 15 years in hell, Serious Sam has been doing ok though.
The thing is crowd control shooters like Serious Sam are not gonna be big because even Serious Sam is not a true old school shooter, it's a horde mode with a story, Serious Sam and Croteam are making the same mistake, thinking old school shooter means killing stuff endlessly.
Bulletstorm didn't really feel old school at all IMO, it just had the old school Duke Nukem attitude.

Telltales P&C games take the old school P&Cs and upgrade them in the right way.
Sadly developers are doing old school shooters wrong and their true form hasn't been given a chance to shine and show what they can do in the modern era.

The Shadow Warrior reboot however is proof that old school shooters are still very relevant, while FWH did very good, they still have a lot of work to do in getting it right. The things they did right was upgrading the gameplay, adding a surprisingly good story and finally giving us a taste of the level design we've been asking for. The level design isn't perfectly done yet, but it's a good step in the right direction, they gave us a flexible level design complete with secrets.
If you haven't played it, I highly recommend it.

Also you said a while ago that you like Telltales P&C games because they offer you loads of options if I'm not mistaken.
Old School Shooters did the same thing.

This is the top down view of E1L1 of Duke Nukem 3D (Hollywood Holocaust)

The black line indicates one way of finishing the level, but in fact there are multiple ways of finishing that level. The level design of those games was so flexible and offered so many options, that's one of the reasons why Duke3D and all those past games are so legendary.
Old School shooters give you as many options as P&C games do, it's just developers aren't trying with shooters anymore cause CoD and Battlefield have made set pieces popular.

 

[Chancey289]

Doom 3 wasn't well received by fans? .........wut?

When did this happen? Doom 3 was both a critical and commercial success and the overall consensus from fans was that it was good. Don't know what you're talking about.

Doom BFG Edition has a better version of 3 (I CAN SEE!) as well and is one sweet little package.

 

[xMobilemux]

Doom 3 wasn't well received by fans? .........wut?

When did this happen? Doom 3 was both a critical and commercial success and the overall consensus from fans was that it was good. Don't know what you're talking about.

Doom BFG Edition has a better version of 3 (I CAN SEE!) as well and is one sweet little package.

When Doom 3 came out, a good deal of Doom fans were unhappy with the change, to this day Doom 3 is the least liked game in the franchise by the fanbase, sure it's still loved by a lot, me included but the fanbase wasn't happy with it.

and no the BFG Edition does not have the best version of Doom 3, the settings of that game are locked and you can't do anything with it, the raw PC edition has mod support and a good deal of fan levels for it. The BFG Edition just has the mediocre expansion and an ok extra campaign.

 

[Maxman]

I want my FPS games to be fun, really fun, Where there are great weapons and the shooting mechanics are great and Fun, I also like My FPSs to have good stories as well, Games like Shadow Warrior, Bulletstorm, Duke Nukem Forever are EXACTLY how I like my FPSs to be. With that in Regard, I like the current gen shooters as well except for COD............... :/

And Yes, I want some Great Single Player Campaigns in my Shooters, It really ****es me off these days how Devs only see Shooters as only Multiplayer Focused Genre, I am TIRED of this half-assed 5 hour bullshit
Well, that being said, I dont mind the Length as long as my Campaign is great And I had a Great Time

And please, More shooters like Shadow Warrior, Resistance 3, Bulletstorm, Duke Nukem please !

Also, in Shooters where EACH weapon is unique, I would like To carry ALL of them Weapons,
IMO, this "Only 2-weapon" carrying mechanic works in Games where their are multiple guns in gun types Like Multiple Pistols or Revolvers in "Handgun" Gun Type. That is what I didnt like in Bioshock Infinite and in Duke Nukem Forever :/ These 2 could use an all-weapon carrying system like Shadow Warrior.....But oh well

 

[Dark Drakan]

The level design isn't perfectly done yet, but it's a good step in the right direction, they gave us a flexible level design complete with secrets.
If you haven't played it, I highly recommend it.

Also you said a while ago that you like Telltales P&C games because they offer you loads of options if I'm not mistaken.
Old School Shooters did the same thing.

Old School shooters give you as many options as P&C games do, it's just developers aren't trying with shooters anymore cause CoD and Battlefield have made set pieces popular.

Giving me a couple of different ways to walk through a level isnt really what I would call an advancement in choice, nice change from being forced down a preset path of course but games like Deus Ex are more the choice I would like to be given. Can pick your own styles of play/dialogue choices/and tactics on the fly.

WhatIf RPGs became popular again, really popular that more & more gamers were flocking towards it, so developers would have to change things in other titles to keep up right.
And it started influencing other game genres.

Then WhatIf the next Red Dead Redemption was had RPG elements in it.
And the Red Dead Redemption after had even more elements not akin to that title, & sequel after sequel it got to the point where it resembled Red Dead Redemption only in name with the explanation of it was a dying series so something had to change.
Or Red Dead Redemption became call of duty.
What would you do, how would you feel about that.

Like i said i understand & agree with you & him, i don't agree with him insulting developers lol, but i get it.
However change is inevitable but alot would rather see a favorite series come to a respectful end then see it changed into the fad genre of the week & drag out.

It's becoming difficult to stay in our favorite genre.

I would love more RPG elements in Red Dead, I think a lot of genres could learn things from RPG's and the choices they give you. Wouldnt want to be able to create a nameless character as it doesnt have the same emotional attachment as writing a great character can but still plenty of elements that could seamlessly fit into any genre. Though I do understand the reference and no-one wants people to change a series they enjoy that far from the original vision that its unrecognizable. In a way CoD is the prime example of that, the originals had heart behind them and the new ones are nothing but a shell of that original vision by the original team. Its been butchered over the years (was a big fan of 1 & 2 on PC) but its been passed between so many developers/teams since there is nothing left. I enjoyed Modern Warfare (CoD 4) as it brought something new to the table (people were bored of WWII games) but every year since then they have degraded themselves into using it as nothing more than a quick cash cow.

Wouldnt like it to become a yearly release cash cow however (no-one wants this for a franchise they enjoy) but if it was like the case with Telltale and their Borderlands spin off I would simply wait for the original company to release their sequel and not purchase the spin offs if they didnt appeal to me. They arent effecting the production of the main titles, just filling in some other back story and offering different take/style on things.

Open world games are becoming more and more popular and lots of series ARE changing and heading down that route. However its a route they NEED to go down, even The Witcher series has jumped onto it as other RPG's start to feel restricted when they arent open world. Thats the issue, if other genres/games are starting to make your game feel limited you are going to have to evolve it. I think most titles that dont use some form of RPG customization/choices and free roaming will start to feel like they are behind the times. Especially with the new specs that next gen has put onto the table for console developers.

I get where hes coming from but just think it was taken far to personally & gone about in the wrong way. The gaming industry is one in transition and those companies that dont keep up/evolve will die. Personally im a lot more open minded with genres in this day and age than in the past. As I have said I was never a fan of point & click style but Telltale have changed my mind and they have come a long way over the years and so has their style of point & click games. The heart is still there in them (like old school ones) but they are far more action orientated than they ever were in the past.

I will never cast aside a game again based solely on its genre before I have tried it as I put off playing it for ages (despite being a Walking Dead fan) just because I didnt really like point & click style. Realise now how narrow minded that was and they have opened my eyes to whole new perspective of games. Speaking about one developer here but since then I have purchased titles I knew nothing about (The Wolf Among Us and the Fables series its based on) and now im interested to read the comics. If I hadnt have took that original risk and not downloaded Episode 1 of both series I would have missed 2 fantastic experiences. Yet here they are again getting judged and criticized for 1 game he didnt like and 1 that hasnt even been developed yet. If he doesnt like the style and it definitely isnt for him then hes not going to enjoy ANYTHING they do so no point ranting about it as its like moaning about Final Fantasy for being an JRPG.

 

[xMobilemux]

Giving me a couple of different ways to walk through a level isnt really what I would call an advancement in choice, nice change from being forced down a preset path of course but games like Deus Ex are more the choice I would like to be given. Can pick your own styles of play/dialogue choices/and tactics on the fly.

Deus Ex doesn't really count as a First Person Shooter really, it's more or less a RPG that takes place from First Person perspective, but I won't say no to more shooters combining that direction with fast paced FPSs.
It's not a big advancement if they just copy and paste old school level design, but Great Level design is one of the major factors of what made those old school FPSs the classics they are today, having maze like levels that required exploration and thinking combined with puzzle solving and well balanced shooter gameplay is what make those games so much fun to play to this day, the Shadow Warrior reboot got close and due to that it is being played and replayed a lot, personally it's my 2nd most replayed game this year.
FPSs these days rely on story, scripted events, set peices and multiplayer, therefor they aren't really worth keeping, they're only a one time thing.

 

[Dark Drakan]

Deus Ex doesn't really count as a First Person Shooter really, it's more or less a RPG that takes place from First Person perspective, but I won't say no to more shooters combining that direction with fast paced FPSs.
It's not a big advancement if they just copy and paste old school level design, but Great Level design is one of the major factors of what made those old school FPSs the classics they are today, having maze like levels that required exploration and thinking combined with puzzle solving and well balanced shooter gameplay is what make those games so much fun to play to this day, the Shadow Warrior reboot got close and due to that it is being played and replayed a lot, personally it's my 2nd most replayed game this year.
FPSs these days rely on story, scripted events, set peices and multiplayer, therefor they aren't really worth keeping, they're only a one time thing.

I think FPS games should learn from games like Deus Ex was my point, appeals to those that dont want scripted events, linear progression (forced down paths from one set piece to the next), multiplayer taking center stage along with a 5 hr story mode. Proves that you can have a good story with good choices and customisation with a decent length and replayability without compromising on the basics of good shooting elements, level design and multiple paths and they even managed to weave good stealth & hacking system into it. It can be done so why do most FPS games feel like they are dated before they have been released? Just feel that FPS games are stuck in a rut and dont bring anything new to the table anymore, the RPG style games from FPS viewpoint are doing things far better and evolving at a faster rate than the run of the mill shooters still being recycled year after year.

 

[xMobilemux]

I think FPS games should learn from games like Deus Ex was my point, appeals to those that dont want scripted events, linear progression, multiplayer taking center stage along with a 5 hr story mode. Proves that you can have a good story with good choices and customisation with a decent length and replayability without compromising on the basics of good shooting elements, level design and multiple paths and they even managed to weave good stealth & hacking system into it. It can be done so why do most FPS games feel like they are dated before they have been released? Just feel that FPS games are stuck in a rut and dont bring anything new to the table anymore, the RPG style games from FPS viewpoint are doing things far better and evolving at a faster rate.

Agreed, Borderlands is taking the RPG route, not exactly like Deus Ex, but never the less, it's something different and in the right direction. Seems like Destiny is trying to do that too, again not in the Deus Ex way though.
But personally, I want FPSs to return to the more fast paced form, Titanfall seems to be preparing us for that, with it's jetpacks, twitch shooter gameplay and all, it spells for the perfect gameplay in a new Duke Nukem game.
There's no reason both of them can't exist though, it's just developers are focused on taking the easy way out.