Nero's development and story discussion (no bullshit allowed).

[Lionheart]

Devil Arms not part of their owner, Nero's Devil Bringer is. So it would be reasonable to say that objects absorbed by it are part of Nero and that he is more demonic than he was at the start of the game (to a very limited degree and without making him less human)

I'm going to have to go by what the game says. The things he absorbs with his Devil Bringer can be compared to the things Dante absorbs (and he does seem to absorb them), namely the demons themselves (Echidna, turns into gauntlets, Berial, turns into Lucifer, etc). It's just that Nero gains abilities, whereas Dante gains weapons. Not once was it implied that Nero got more demonic by absorbing the Rusalka Corpse, Sephirothic Fruit and so on. Nor would I expect him to become more demonic by absorbing a corpse No, the question was really whether he got biologically demonic by the end of the game. I suppose he didn't change, he just gained new skills and eventually accepted he was (partly) a demon.

 

[Lionheart]

I wouldn't give Nero any unnecessary things, though. I'm not sure if he needs to have styles, if individual weapons can fill that role. No need to go fiddling around with the D-pad. If Nero were to have an Angel Pull or Demon Grab, I would make those more easy to control. I've played the DmC demo, and most things pertaining to combat just weren't intuitive at all (even Stinger wasn't, I mean, tap the stick into one direction twice? Wut?), so I wouldn't take anything else from that game. Dante had too many things going on at once, I'd say. DMC3 worked really well, so I'd take inspiration from that.

About Nero's appearance, I'd give him a hairdo more similar to a cross between those of Dante and Vergil. More upswept like Vergil.

There should be five devil arms and five guns, like in DMC3:
1. a set of a blue katana and a red one
2. a spear (or trident, maybe) with a shield
3. The Yamato
4. a zweihänder
5. The Red Queen?

1. The Blue Rose
2. a shotgun?
3. a longbow?
4. maybe two magnums like Dante and Sparda had
5. I have no clue. Manipulatable summoned swords?

 

[IncarnatedDemon]

I think a crossbow would be nice instead of a magnum gun for Nero.

That will distance Nero from Dante, which would make Nero more unique as a character.

 

[darkslayer13]

I'm going to have to go by what the game says. The things he absorbs with his Devil Bringer can be compared to the things Dante absorbs (and he does seem to absorb them), namely the demons themselves (Echidna, turns into gauntlets, Berial, turns into Lucifer, etc). It's just that Nero gains abilities, whereas Dante gains weapons. Not once was it implied that Nero got more demonic by absorbing the Rusalka Corpse, Sephirothic Fruit and so on. Nor would I expect him to become more demonic by absorbing a corpse No, the question was really whether he got biologically demonic by the end of the game. I suppose he didn't change, he just gained new skills and eventually accepted he was (partly) a demon.

In Devil May Cry 4 the Devil Arms don't come from the demons you kill to get them they were found by the order of the sword and used to open the hellgates the demons came through.

DMC3 makes it very clear that Devil Arms are formed from demons as a normal aspect of their nature (and that they can even turn themselves into Devil Arms) and are not part of Dante or an aspect of his power and at no point has any of the games claimed or implied in any way that Dante absorbs Devil Arms into his body. Nero on the other hand is clearly shown to absorb demonic objects into his body without any control or effort as a normal aspect of his powers.

The game does not say anything about the effect of Nero absorbing demonic power but it is reasonable to describe objects being absorbed into a part of Nero's body as becoming a part of him. Which could be reasonably considered to be adding to the demonic part of Nero. Which can be described as Nero becoming more demonic than he was at the start of the game. Therefore it is reasonable to conclude that Nero becomes more demonic by absorbing demonic objects into his body.

 

[Stylish Nero]

I wouldn't give Nero any unnecessary things, though. I'm not sure if he needs to have styles, if individual weapons can fill that role. No need to go fiddling around with the D-pad. If Nero were to have an Angel Pull or Demon Grab, I would make those more easy to control. I've played the DmC demo, and most things pertaining to combat just weren't intuitive at all (even Stinger wasn't, I mean, tap the stick into one direction twice? Wut?), so I wouldn't take anything else from that game. Dante had too many things going on at once, I'd say. DMC3 worked really well, so I'd take inspiration from that.

About Nero's appearance, I'd give him a hairdo more similar to a cross between those of Dante and Vergil. More upswept like Vergil.

There should be five devil arms and five guns, like in DMC3:
1. a set of a blue katana and a red one
2. a spear (or trident, maybe) with a shield
3. The Yamato
4. a zweihänder
5. The Red Queen?

1. The Blue Rose
2. a shotgun?
3. a longbow?
4. maybe two magnums like Dante and Sparda had
5. I have no clue. Manipulatable summoned swords?

I too promote a 5 gun/5 sword/devil arms feature for Nero but I propose something else.

I say have 5 slots for each category (5 for guns/mid-long range and 5 for close-mid range) and can switch between 2-3 of them on the fly but customize the weapons and their order to switch via menu.

Nero start off with Yamato then Red Queen (which was upgraded and slightly changed) and Blue Rose then learns how to use Summon Swords properly. So now with those 4 set weapons...the extra weapons.

However, I feel that instead of just random firearms and Devil Arms/weapons you either find or obtain via boss battle/story scenario. I think we should throw in a Dead Rising/Dragon's Dogma/Monster Hunter weapon customization option where you can craft your weapons (for each category) from parts you obtain via finding them or defeating various demons and some bosses. Using these parts not only can you create and customize new artificial Devil Arms weapons but create and alter their movesets at will like create a pair of gauntlets/greaves so you alter it for new uses like adding blades/hidden guns to them to alter their use and even affect their LT/L2 (special) functionality. Like creating a dual edge chainsaw spear and etc. Can create/alter their combos/attacks and can have up to 10 weapons on you and can swap them out via Divinity Statue. However, basic moves depends on the type of weapon...spear weapons have spear like movesets, fist based weapons have fist based movesets (same goes for kick based weapons and even kick and punch based weapons), sword weapons have sword based movesets (similar to Dante's Alastor/Rebellion's tricks). There should be a large variety of weapons you can make such dual sword weapons, nunchucks, tonfas, pole weapons (scythes, axes, spears, hammers, poles) claws, daggers, etc and I don't really care if moves/attacks from past DMC games (even DmC) are reused as customizable moveset options (hell ven if some DD attacks or other attacks from other Capcom games were thrown in there I wouldn't care).

Each custom weapon should be able to hold at least a dozen combos/moves.

Then their are gears/abilities you can equip to these weapons to give a functionality similar to Red Queen's Exceed such as being able to equip a gun to the weapons or something similar to Red Queen's Exceed system....you name it.

Now the guns will be an iffy issue.

 

[Lionheart]

In Devil May Cry 4 the Devil Arms don't come from the demons you kill to get them they were found by the order of the sword and used to open the hellgates the demons came through.

DMC3 makes it very clear that Devil Arms are formed from demons as a normal aspect of their nature (and that they can even turn themselves into Devil Arms) and are not part of Dante or an aspect of his power and at no point has any of the games claimed or implied in any way that Dante absorbs Devil Arms into his body. Nero on the other hand is clearly shown to absorb demonic objects into his body without any control or effort as a normal aspect of his powers.

The game does not say anything about the effect of Nero absorbing demonic power but it is reasonable to describe objects being absorbed into a part of Nero's body as becoming a part of him. Which could be reasonably considered to be adding to the demonic part of Nero. Which can be described as Nero becoming more demonic than he was at the start of the game. Therefore it is reasonable to conclude that Nero becomes more demonic by absorbing demonic objects into his body.

Actually, weapons like Lucifer and Gilgamesh, which came from their respective demons' souls, are Devil Arms. You can find them or kill demons to get them, it doesn't matter. I'm pretty sure they'd also be called Devil Arms in DMC3, but I don't think they had invented that word at that point.

Sure, they could become part of Nero, but does that have to mean he becomes more demonic? Nope. By the end of the game, he's still as human and demonic as he was at the start of it. He just gained Devil Bringer skills. I honestly don't know how it works; nobody does, so saying those things make him more demonic is just speculation. Speculation that isn't really based on any evidence.

 

[darkslayer13]

Actually, weapons like Lucifer and Gilgamesh, which came from their respective demons' souls, are Devil Arms. You can find them or kill demons to get them, it doesn't matter. I'm pretty sure they'd also be called Devil Arms in DMC3, but I don't think they had invented that word at that point.

Sure, they could become part of Nero, but does that have to mean he becomes more demonic? Nope. By the end of the game, he's still as human and demonic as he was at the start of it. He just gained Devil Bringer skills. I honestly don't know how it works; nobody does, so saying those things make him more demonic is just speculation. Speculation that isn't really based on any evidence.

I think you might have misread my post. I said that the Devil Arms in DMC4 did not come from the demons Dante killed to get them. I did not claim that they were not Devil Arms or that they were not formed from demons (it is reasonable to conclude that they are). Then I pointed out that Dante has never been shown or said to have absorbed Devil Arms (if you have a reason to think that he does you should make an effort to explain it) Then I explained the justification for the theory of Nero being more demonic (if something demonic becomes part of Nero than by definition there are more demonic parts of Nero than there were at the start of the game making the entirety of all things that could be considered Nero more demonic). I have no problem with you disagreeing with me but claiming I have no evidence (when I clearly explained my reasoning which you made no effort to counter) is insulting and unacceptable.

Oh and btw the term Devil Arm has been used since the first game.

 

[Lionheart]

I think you might have misread my post. I said that the Devil Arms in DMC4 did not come from the demons Dante killed to get them. I did not claim that they were not Devil Arms or that they were not formed from demons (it is reasonable to conclude that they are). Then I pointed out that Dante has never been shown or said to have absorbed Devil Arms (if you have a reason to think that he does you should make an effort to explain it) Then I explained the justification for the theory of Nero being more demonic (if something demonic becomes part of Nero than by definition there are more demonic parts of Nero than there were at the start of the game making the entirety of all things that could be considered Nero more demonic). I have no problem with you disagreeing with me but claiming I have no evidence (when I clearly explained my reasoning which you made no effort to counter) is insulting and unacceptable.

Oh and btw the term Devil Arm has been used since the first game.

But they did come from the demons Dante killed to get them (Berial's soul, Echidna's soul etc), so... I'm not sure what else you could mean. All weapons formed from or obtained from demons in DMC4 are Devil Arms. No, Dante did not absorb Devil Arms, but he did seem to absorb those demons' souls. And after that, he can make Devil Arms appear and disappear at will. Devil Arms are the physical manifestation of demons' souls, and if Dante doesn't absorb them, I don't know where he keeps them. He'd be lugging around the Pandora briefcase constantly, the Rebellion, Lucifer, and so on.

Nero cannot be considered physiologically more demonic than he was at the start of the game. He does not become a half-demon or anything like that. That was the subject of my conversation with IncarnatedDemon: that Nero got physically more demonic, which he did not. He just gained skills (and wisdom) as DMC4's story progressed.

And there's no need to get defensive. I'd rather stop talking to you if you're not going to contribute anything, because the point of Nero getting 'more demonic parts' just wasn't the subject. I could say Nero finding a demonic baseball glove gives him 'demonic parts' as well. Not really relevant. So thanks, and I'm out of here. I've already said what I wanted to say, and honestly, I'm done with DMC, because I know DMC just wouldn't be done well. Not even by Platinum Games, because I played MGR recently, and it was quite a disappointment, just like Bayonetta was, slightly.

 

[rocketvergil]

:troll:

 

[DMC]

I don't think Nero being Vergil's son is right.

I think Nero was a new character made by Capcom without much logic behind him. They just made him different from Dante but at same time had that white hair, that sword and gun etc.

If what i read about Nero on wiki is correct: Nero shoulder was hurt. And as we later learn his hand changes.

So instead of Nero's demonic powers being explained by him being son of Vergil, i think it's better that Nero was wounded by a special demon. This special type of demon can turn humans into demon.
But before Nero killed it he suffered a small wound.

And thus his arm changed.

in the wiki kyrie also was injured but recoverd fully...

 

[V's patron]

I would advise against giving nero his own game right away since not alot of people like him and most of his detractors are interested in seeing other avenues like a vergil/sparda solo game or a game where the plot questions are tied up. they dont mind the issues with Nero resolved they just dont want a whole game devoted to resolving it.

So i feel trying to replicate what Kojima did with Raiden in MGS4 were he made Raiden a character people wanted to see again and play as. By the time mGS4 ended I was interested in seeing what happened to Raiden in between Sons of Liberty and Guns of the patriot so that something we want to achieve with Nero in a potential DMC5.

So for the sake of the thread maybe focusing on why he doesnt work and how we can realistically remedy that would be best.

 

[Stylish Nero]

I would advise against giving nero his own game right away since not alot of people like him and most of his detractors are interested in seeing other avenues like a vergil/sparda solo game or a game where the plot questions are tied up. they dont mind the issues with Nero resolved they just dont want a whole game devoted to resolving it.

So i feel trying to replicate what Kojima did with Raiden in MGS4 were he made Raiden a character people wanted to see again and play as. By the time mGS4 ended I was interested in seeing what happened to Raiden in between Sons of Liberty and Guns of the patriot so that something we want to achieve with Nero in a potential DMC5.

So for the sake of the thread maybe focusing on why he doesnt work and how we can realistically remedy that would be best.

Actually DmC gave Nero a boost in popularity for some reason.