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My thoughts on DmC: Devil May Cry

G

GOONER1991

Well-known Member
Firstly, hello all, I'm new to these boards.

Despite all of the criticism levelled at DmC: Devil May Cry, I am really looking forward to it. I love the Devil May Cry games, and although I am not a "hardcore" player, as I assume some of you may be, I do really love the games. However, I think that we need to admit that the series was beginning to grow stale. The gameplay was always fantastic, however the stories were convoluted and left gaping holes every time. Environments were nice to look at, but at times repetitive, and in DMC4 they literally made half a game's worth of environments and then made us play through them twice. I feel that after 4, Capcom were really losing their way in regards to Devil May Cry and the series really needed to be handed over to a new developer to add fresh new ideas.

One disappointment I did have with the new game was that it was a reboot and not DMC5. I still feel that there was a lot of untouched potential in the original series. I would have liked to see the story tightened up a bit etc with official and canonical explanations for things such as Nero's identity, Vergil's current status after DMC4, Dante's transition into his DMC2 personality, rather than this all being left to fan theories, or explanations to be found scattered in different media.

Alas, this was not to be, and like most at first I was completely put off with what I saw of the new DmC. The radical character design change, the change of setting, non-canonical story, there was a lot to be disappointed about from what we have seen, however lately I've somewhat warmed to the game. The design of Dante has been slightly altered, which makes it slightly more appealing, and although I still don't really like the bright and colourful look of the environments, I appreciate how the environment moves and reacts to Dante, something that I feel is new and fresh, and if the story is somewhat decent, then I predict that I will enjoy this game.

The only thing that makes me severely apprehensive about DmC is I worry that they've completely mullered the combat system. The combat is what made DMC so successful and enjoyable, despite it's flaws in other areas. If Ninja Theory were clever they would keep the combat engine relatively the same, employing something similar to what Metal Gear Solid uses, when booting up the game for the first time, you're given certain options such as "I'm a fan of MGS3" or "I've never played MGS before". Using this they would be able to alter the difficulty accordingly, with players new to the DMC series allowed to play on an easier difficulty setting with "Automatic" on to help them with timing combos, while those of us who have played the original games, are not awarded with such handicaps. Rumour has it that Ninja Theory have "dumbed down" the combat to make it easier for new users to string together large combos. The whole Devil Trigger system seems completely broken also. There's no point in improving on areas where the original games were weak, if you're going to completely destroy the area that they were brilliant at.

Overall, I think that my early apprehension about this game, came down to the fact that it wasn't DMC5 as I wanted it to be, and the fact that I really didn't like how Tameem handled the whole situation. He was arrogant and basically dismissed all of the fanbase's early thoughts about the game, rather than explaining his position, why they made the changes, and assuring the fanbase that the game would be good and Ninja Theory know what they're doing. However I won't let that get in my way of looking at this game objectively. Although I'll admit, I fail to see where the "DMC DNA" is in this game, I'm going to look at this objectively, like I would a new IP. The game looks like it has the potential to be fun, and that's what's important. I just hope that between now and release that Ninja Theory manage to get get combat and difficulty sorted, and that enemies don't simply meander up to you like pigs to the slaughter.

Sorry for the essay guys.
 
i disagree, while tameem didnt say the combat was simpler he said it was easier to understand, as in there are instuctions to help people see what is what and understand how the combo system works. but just cause you understand it in theory doesnt mean you'll be able to do it. the combat, to me, looks fluid and brutal which is appropriate for dante. so there will be a clear divide between those who can use it effectively and those who cant. the devil trigger isnt broken either. its just different. when you use devil trigger you simply power up thats all. the fundamental difference being youre now so fast everyone is standing still compared to you. the bright environment is supposed to look all weird and out of contrast as limbo is meant to be a parody of the real world. as for th enemy problem they have difficulty settings for that (and note weve only seen enemies from the first few levels)

heres where i dispense the pleasentries. i think its outright rude of you to call Tameem arrogant and dissmissive. at the time all he had was a trailer and a concept. at the end of the day he is a bussiness man and what kind of bussiness only listens to fans and no one else. if he made the game the fans wanted at the time we'd get dmc 3.5. something weve all seen before, in this case 4 times before. itd have been a poor game and could have easily killed DMC for good. so it isnt fair for you to critisize him so bluntly like that. (tho if DMC fails feel free too).

regarding the holes in the story im on your side. i would have liked a more elaborate explaination. Capcom said nero was vergils son but that was about it. and i know you said over all your approaching DmC with an open mind which i respect but i wanted to correct the facts your logic is based on. if you find mine are wrong feel free to correct mine. :D

Welcome to the site
 
i agree with some of your points except for a few. The combat being one, but i guess i can't realy defend my case since i was always a "casual" fan..so :P. As for the Tameem issue i really believe it's based purely on bias and (to a certain degree) irrationality on part of the fans. I mean if you take it from a normal stance his words in any interview DO NOT seem offensive at all, however since there was(and is) rage against the reboot people twisted the meanings of his words and ended up turning it into something that can be seen as "offensive". And let's say that he was being insulting and taking a shot at the fans, i think it's justified; i mean if i had to go to work and constantly see all the berating comments from the simple "Tameem is gay" to "Tameem fashioned Dante after himself" i would be a offended. But then again it flips again to the thought that maybe he wasn't being "unprofessional" that he was saying it like it is.
 
Well, seeing as how I'm just going to end up buying both this and Darksiders II, I'll just say that I wish the world had more of a Zelda feel to it. But it's constantly shifting, which is good, so I'll take it. Devil Trigger really worries me though, having the enemies just float up there really isn't something I want. However, I never used DT in the previous games, so, I guess this is all right. I just wish it didn't feel like a rehash of quicksilver. That being said, I honestly don't think there is a way to improve or change on the DT in the previous games. Quicksliver was something I never used either, so it doesn't matter to me, either way.

I will say this though. I like what I've seen so far. Even the 2010 trailer proved interesting for me, showing a side of Dante never seen before. This revamped version of New Dante is still all right though. The over the top stunts may have have been too same-y to DMC3 Dante, but the cheesy lines were gone, and there's simply no other way to react to having your trailer pulled out from under you, other than stumble and fall.
 
i think that the first DT they showed us was just a rough draft of sorts. The only time they showed DT was WAAAAAYYY back in 2010 i believe so i have a firm feeling they changed it up a bit over these two years..hey they might even show the improved DT at E3!! (wishful thinking)
 
somekidfromthe90's said:
i think that the first DT they showed us was just a rough draft of sorts. The only time they showed DT was WAAAAAYYY back in 2010 i believe so i have a firm feeling they changed it up a bit over these two years..hey they might even show the improved DT at E3!! (wishful thinking)
Click to expand...


Let's hope so. DT looked weird at best in the rough drafts.
 
true theyve changed loads since 2010. even how dante looks, in the end their using dt to enhance combat and seeing as theyve spent soo much time just for the sake of the combat sytem it seems logical they would have changed the dt to work well in combat.
 
I meant to say I like threads like this.

We don't have exactly the same views on the game, but it's open for discussion.
I think everyone at this forum would agree that this is a breath of fresh air.
 
GOONER1991 said:
Firstly, hello all, I'm new to these boards.

Despite all of the criticism levelled at DmC: Devil May Cry, I am really looking forward to it. I love the Devil May Cry games, and although I am not a "hardcore" player, as I assume some of you may be, I do really love the games. However, I think that we need to admit that the series was beginning to grow stale. The gameplay was always fantastic, however the stories were convoluted and left gaping holes every time. Environments were nice to look at, but at times repetitive, and in DMC4 they literally made half a game's worth of environments and then made us play through them twice. I feel that after 4, Capcom were really losing their way in regards to Devil May Cry and the series really needed to be handed over to a new developer to add fresh new ideas.

That's why I like/Hate DMC4. I liked it's enviornment the first time with NEro, but seeing it all again with Dante got annoying.

One disappointment I did have with the new game was that it was a reboot and not DMC5. I still feel that there was a lot of untouched potential in the original series. I would have liked to see the story tightened up a bit etc with official and canonical explanations for things such as Nero's identity, Vergil's current status after DMC4, Dante's transition into his DMC2 personality, rather than this all being left to fan theories, or explanations to be found scattered in different media.

To be honest, DMC was never gonna fill plot holes. The story was never the biggest thing for DMC, it was all about gameplay, and a fan-fiction-like story. Nero was the biggest example of this. No explaination, no real character in him, I just liked him for gameplay and his outfit.

Alas, this was not to be, and like most at first I was completely put off with what I saw of the new DmC. The radical character design change, the change of setting, non-canonical story, there was a lot to be disappointed about from what we have seen, however lately I've somewhat warmed to the game. The design of Dante has been slightly altered, which makes it slightly more appealing, and although I still don't really like the bright and colourful look of the environments, I appreciate how the environment moves and reacts to Dante, something that I feel is new and fresh, and if the story is somewhat decent, then I predict that I will enjoy this game.

The reason for the colorful world is because Limbo is a parody of the real world. Look at the human world; dull, lifeless-looking, a reflection of our boring, unenteresting world. Now look at Limbo; Vibrant, colorful, the type of world anyone would love to be in. See what I mean?

The only thing that makes me severely apprehensive about DmC is I worry that they've completely mullered the combat system. The combat is what made DMC so successful and enjoyable, despite it's flaws in other areas. If Ninja Theory were clever they would keep the combat engine relatively the same, employing something similar to what Metal Gear Solid uses, when booting up the game for the first time, you're given certain options such as "I'm a fan of MGS3" or "I've never played MGS before". Using this they would be able to alter the difficulty accordingly, with players new to the DMC series allowed to play on an easier difficulty setting with "Automatic" on to help them with timing combos, while those of us who have played the original games, are not awarded with such handicaps. Rumour has it that Ninja Theory have "dumbed down" the combat to make it easier for new users to string together large combos. The whole Devil Trigger system seems completely broken also. There's no point in improving on areas where the original games were weak, if you're going to completely destroy the area that they were brilliant at.

If they kept the same engine (MT Framework) Then the world wouldn't be breaking down like it does. The Engine NT is using (Unreal Engine) Makes the areas of DmC move around and break to pieces. MT Framework can't do that. And don't give me that "30fps makes Dante fight slower" Because that's not even true. Unreal Engine makes the world more wider and more amazing in texture along with the character itself. Unreal Engine or 30fps has been used for many popular games, like Batman Arakam City, possibly Infamous, and many others. We also don't even know what level the demo was on. it could have been on easy because the person playing has never played the game before and doesn't know all the controls. You can't judge just from a demo, until you've played yourself. To be honest, DMC's gameplay was never hard to understand. I got Stylish on my first try with DMC3 so it's not that hard to learn. Dumb down is just mad fanboy talk. I do agree with the Devil Trigger statement, and I hope that's fixed. Gameplay was the only thing DMC was good at.

Overall, I think that my early apprehension about this game, came down to the fact that it wasn't DMC5 as I wanted it to be, and the fact that I really didn't like how Tameem handled the whole situation. He was arrogant and basically dismissed all of the fanbase's early thoughts about the game, rather than explaining his position, why they made the changes, and assuring the fanbase that the game would be good and Ninja Theory know what they're doing. However I won't let that get in my way of looking at this game objectively. Although I'll admit, I fail to see where the "DMC DNA" is in this game, I'm going to look at this objectively, like I would a new IP. The game looks like it has the potential to be fun, and that's what's important. I just hope that between now and release that Ninja Theory manage to get get combat and difficulty sorted, and that enemies don't simply meander up to you like pigs to the slaughter.

Wouldn't you dismiss a fanbase that only hated you and wanted you dead with their death threats? Tameen did explain his position, it just sounded arrogant because he was the new handler of DMC, and people try to look for every small excuse to hate him, because he's the new director. Ninja Theory did know what they were doing, and the explaination for the change is pretty clear, but no one listened because of their understandable hate for the change. DMC DNA is actually there. I mean look at the new DmC and DMC. Both Dantes have;
A long coat
two handguns
a long sword
cocky attitudes
rebelious nature (though DmC Dante has more rebelliousness)
and both hunt demons

That's DMC DNA to me. Cause everyone loves Dante, and some even think Dante is what makes DMC, which is why that's the DMC DNA, causeNT thought that fans think Dante is what makes DMC good.

Sorry for the essay guys.
Click to expand...

No problem.^_^
 
The combat looks damn near identical to the original, but with more combos and a improved Stylish meter. Tameen has said several times that it might be the toughest DMC game to date. I'm not worried.
 
The combat does look smooth in the trailers, and I really do like the fact that they've made it clearer how many points you're getting for each individual combo etc. Personally I'm not one who frets between 60fps and 30fps or what engine it runs on, I simply care about how the game plays; if the game feels smooth and looks good then what engine it runs on really doesn't bother me. However what I do want to make sure of is that the combo system and input system is as fluid as in previous DMC games. As far as I know, Ninja Theory are famed for the presentation of their games, however are criticised for the quality and depth of the actual gameplay. This is what I was getting at in my OP. I hope that Ninja Theory leave what's good about Devil May Cry already relatively untouched, while bringing their own invention and innovation to the areas which were lacking - which were the areas which they were good at. I'm simply hoping that they do not make the game/combo system easier, simply so newcomers can get good quickly.

In regards to the setting, I completely understand why limbo is the way that it is, I was simply saying that I don't like it because the bright colour palette is not to my taste. To an extent, I like the direction that they've gone with it to be honest. Many portrals of "demon realms" are dark, dingy with large pallettes of blacks, reds and browns. Ninja Theory have done the complete opposite. Although I don't particularly like the design, that doesn't necessarily make it bad, and I completely understand that.

I do still feel that DT is broken. You engage it, the enemies are thrown into the air helpless and it doesn't end as long as you don't touch the floor. That seems overpowered. I understand that they want more fighting to be done in the air, however that seems to easy for you to attack, grapple up, attack, rinse and repeat until the end of the battle.

My comments on Tameem seem to have hit a spot with some of you, particularly 788Masri. I do agree with you all in saying that Tameem came into a lot of unwarranted hate from the DMC community who hated the new designs and were not prepared to accept that there had been a form of change, immediately writing the game off with "only a trailer and a concept". Although I think we all agree that the first trailer wasn't the greatest, and there did need to be some things that had to be changed, the fans outcry was both expected, and over the top. However, I do feel that Tameem added fuel to the already blazing fire in some of his interviews. He expected the reaction that he got with the original concept, but I feel that he handled the situation completely the wrong way. Rather than portraying himself as someone who knew what he was doing, I feel that he came across as saying "the old DMC was getting stale, this is how we're doing it now; deal with it". Perhaps his comments at the time were warped and interpreted in the wrong way, in amongst the shock and hate he was getting towards his first trailer, and perhaps if I read them again I would feel differently, however I do feel that during that time, his attitude towards the fans (the same fans who he hopes will buy this game) was rather dismissive. Rather than assure the fans that he knows what he's doing and to wait until more is revealed about the game before making rash judgements on him and it, he was more blunt about it. He may be correct, as I outlined in the OP, I do feel the series needed a change and an injection of new ideas, however his approach to it was wrong.

In all honesty I feel that - although overblown - many of the criticisms levelled at Tameem and this game were justified. The change of engine and fps; would it run like the original? Radical character design change; is this even Dante? Ninja Theory's history with games lacking in certain departments; would this game suffer from the same inadequacies? Although Tameem may have had a point, and the fanbase should have waited to see more about the game, I think that his approach to the fans wasn't the greatest. Take a look at the interview that Ninja Theory did recently for this site and the answers they gave to those questions were much better and reassuring. Bringing in original Devil May Cry players to playtest the game in itself reassures me that they wanted the opinions of genuine fans and wanted to cater for them also.

DragonMaster2010, I guess it completely depends on what you consider to be "DMC DNA" . Yes, to an extent, Dante is what make DMC what it is, however we must remember that that cocky attitude only really came around in the third installment. The white hair and red coat is very much the image that is directly recognisable as DMC. What I also recognise as "DMC DNA" is the architecture, something that is missing here. Fixed camera angles etc. However, in saying that, I understand that Ninja Theory are in a catch 22. Some of what makes up the DMC DNA are things that needed to be changed and improved upon. For example the fixed camera. I played DMC4 yesterday, and the amount of times the camera changed and I ended up running in the wrong direction was simply staggering. In DMC we end up completely bypassing whole areas with minimal exploration or consideration. Something that I'd like changed. However if Ninja Theory change things like this, they will be accused of having the game not look like DMC.
 
I believe this new direction will open far more new opportunities for the franchise, and help with the sequel direstion in the long run. Example: Mobile Suit Gundam. The beginning held many diffrent ways to branch out, and they did exactly that. (more series than I can count). This is a smart move on capcoms part, and now they can start over.
 
GOONER1991 said:
The combat does look smooth in the trailers, and I really do like the fact that they've made it clearer how many points you're getting for each individual combo etc. Personally I'm not one who frets between 60fps and 30fps or what engine it runs on, I simply care about how the game plays; if the game feels smooth and looks good then what engine it runs on really doesn't bother me. However what I do want to make sure of is that the combo system and input system is as fluid as in previous DMC games. As far as I know, Ninja Theory are famed for the presentation of their games, however are criticised for the quality and depth of the actual gameplay. This is what I was getting at in my OP. I hope that Ninja Theory leave what's good about Devil May Cry already relatively untouched, while bringing their own invention and innovation to the areas which were lacking - which were the areas which they were good at. I'm simply hoping that they do not make the game/combo system easier, simply so newcomers can get good quickly.

Don't worry too much. Even though there is some changed aspects, it looks relatively alright.
If I get my hands on this, Im goin' SS stylish all over this thing!

In regards to the setting, I completely understand why limbo is the way that it is, I was simply saying that I don't like it because the bright colour palette is not to my taste. To an extent, I like the direction that they've gone with it to be honest. Many portrals of "demon realms" are dark, dingy with large pallettes of blacks, reds and browns. Ninja Theory have done the complete opposite. Although I don't particularly like the design, that doesn't necessarily make it bad, and I completely understand that.

Well can you imagine new Dante in the DMC's dark setting of castles and European arcutetxture (Spelled it wrong) Yeah, it is colorful, and I honestly wanted to fight in the same areas as the TGS2010 trailer showed, but I'm not to saddened by playing here. This is, after all, a reboot.

I do still feel that DT is broken. You engage it, the enemies are thrown into the air helpless and it doesn't end as long as you don't touch the floor. That seems overpowered. I understand that they want more fighting to be done in the air, however that seems to easy for you to attack, grapple up, attack, rinse and repeat until the end of the battle.

GOD, I hope that get's fixed.

My comments on Tameem seem to have hit a spot with some of you, particularly 788Masri. I do agree with you all in saying that Tameem came into a lot of unwarranted hate from the DMC community who hated the new designs and were not prepared to accept that there had been a form of change, immediately writing the game off with "only a trailer and a concept". Although I think we all agree that the first trailer wasn't the greatest, and there did need to be some things that had to be changed, the fans outcry was both expected, and over the top. However, I do feel that Tameem added fuel to the already blazing fire in some of his interviews. He expected the reaction that he got with the original concept, but I feel that he handled the situation completely the wrong way. Rather than portraying himself as someone who knew what he was doing, I feel that he came across as saying "the old DMC was getting stale, this is how we're doing it now; deal with it". Perhaps his comments at the time were warped and interpreted in the wrong way, in amongst the shock and hate he was getting towards his first trailer, and perhaps if I read them again I would feel differently, however I do feel that during that time, his attitude towards the fans (the same fans who he hopes will buy this game) was rather dismissive. Rather than assure the fans that he knows what he's doing and to wait until more is revealed about the game before making rash judgements on him and it, he was more blunt about it. He may be correct, as I outlined in the OP, I do feel the series needed a change and an injection of new ideas, however his approach to it was wrong.

True his approch was wrong, but as you've said, he was inexperienced. Most people who've never been hated on usually explode the fastest. Not saying Tameen was right for saying what he said about DMC being stale, but in a way he was right. I felt DMC get stale at DMC3 when Dante was just arrogant and hot-headed, instead of the cool, badass of DMC1. DMC4 was even worse in that factor cause he wasn't cool anymore; he was an anime:esque Bishonen (Good-looking) make character and a parody of DMC3 Dante. If CAPCOM would have worked on Dante's maturity a bit more, then I wouldn't have hated him in DMC4 as much.

In all honesty I feel that - although overblown - many of the criticisms levelled at Tameem and this game were justified. The change of engine and fps; would it run like the original? Radical character design change; is this even Dante? Ninja Theory's history with games lacking in certain departments; would this game suffer from the same inadequacies? Although Tameem may have had a point, and the fanbase should have waited to see more about the game, I think that his approach to the fans wasn't the greatest. Take a look at the interview that Ninja Theory did recently for this site and the answers they gave to those questions were much better and reassuring. Bringing in original Devil May Cry players to playtest the game in itself reassures me that they wanted the opinions of genuine fans and wanted to cater for them also.

Yeah, he's gotten better now. All those mistakes in the past has helped him learn now. He even changed his hairstyle so that people would stop saying he based his looks onto DmC Dante.

DragonMaster2010, I guess it completely depends on what you consider to be "DMC DNA" . Yes, to an extent, Dante is what make DMC what it is, however we must remember that that cocky attitude only really came around in the third installment. The white hair and red coat is very much the image that is directly recognisable as DMC. What I also recognise as "DMC DNA" is the architecture, something that is missing here. Fixed camera angles etc. However, in saying that, I understand that Ninja Theory are in a catch 22. Some of what makes up the DMC DNA are things that needed to be changed and improved upon. For example the fixed camera. I played DMC4 yesterday, and the amount of times the camera changed and I ended up running in the wrong direction was simply staggering. In DMC we end up completely bypassing whole areas with minimal exploration or consideration. Something that I'd like changed. However if Ninja Theory change things like this, they will be accused of having the game not look like DMC.
Click to expand...

But that's the thing; It's not like the past DMC games, it's a reboot. It's suppose to be different. If the gameplay was like the last DMC games, we would have another DMC3, and honestly, one DMC3 Dante is enough. Yes, new Dante does slightly act like DMC3 Dante, but atleast new Dante isn't shooting out cheezy one-liners everywhere and isn't too fashionista with his clothes. (Come on, we all know Original Dante had a bit of fashionista in him, or at least "anime-nista";))
 
Gameplay concerns fly over over my head so I just judge the game when I play it. If i can do what they say I can do, I'm golden.

A bigger problem was with the pr and presentation since most of the backlash could have been prevented had capcom just decided to approach the presentation differently. I'm singling out Capcom here as i feel up they might be in charge of deciding that.

The only thing I can really blame NT is how they handle the whole Tameem self insert thing. Officially handling and debunking was a good idea but they offered no proof to back up their claims so it all depends on whether or not you trust Tameem. Showing proof would have made his case stronger.
 
Z218 said:
Gameplay concerns fly over over my head so I just judge the game when I play it. If i can do what they say I can do, I'm golden.

A bigger problem was with the pr and presentation since most of the backlash could have been prevented had capcom just decided to approach the presentation differently. I'm singling out Capcom here as i feel up they might be in charge of deciding that.

The only thing I can really blame NT is how they handle the whole Tameem self insert thing. Officially handling and debunking was a good idea but they offered no proof to back up their claims so it all depends on whether or not you trust Tameem. Showing proof would have made his case stronger.
Click to expand...

I'm a bit confused though. Why was it considered bad if DmC Dante's look was based of Tameen's? Was it because he was the new handler of the Devil May Cry franchise? Cause I don't see much of a big deal.
 
DragonMaster2010 said:
I'm a bit confused though. Why was it considered bad if DmC Dante's look was based of Tameen's? Was it because he was the new handler of the Devil May Cry franchise? Cause I don't see much of a big deal.
Click to expand...

I think it's cause people dont want their favorite character to be remodelled after someone. They think it is disrespectful for the character to be treated that way, especially someone like Dante who has an iconic look and is noted for his iconic look.
 
Yeah, Dante is based off Tim Phillips, the voice actor.
tim-phillips-plaid.jpg
 
Ok, first of all, as much as I hate the man, he didn't approve Dante's design, Capcom did, so if he looks like Tameen it's because Capcom wanted it to be so, not him. As for Tim Phillips? I don't think people would say that if they weren't already saying he was designed after Tam.
 
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