Message to Capcom.

[wallE156]

Honestly, complaining about this isn't going to change anything. In all honesty neither is boycotting strictly because of the sheer number of people you'd have to convince to boycott with you. Even if everyone on this site agreed it wouldn't even put a dent in Capcom or any other big company for that matter. Since we are on the subject of Capcom, why does everyone complain about their business ethics like what they are doing is something new?? How many versions of Street Fighter 2 were there?? Not to mention Alpha and EX.

In all fairness I can kind of understand boycotting Capcom because of withholding content only to release it later. I'll give you that. But why would you boycott the new DMC? Or Resident Evil? Boycotting DMC because they changed your favorite character? Get the f*** outta here...Has it ever occurred to you that maybe, just maybe some people LIKE the new Dante? Or that they might like the changes to Resident Evil? If YOU personally don't like it that's fine, don't buy it. But trying to organize a boycott over something as inevitable as change?? That's just ridiculous.

I agree that the industry needs to change, but not necessarily in these areas. I personally think Activision is WAAAAAAY more f****d up than Capcom. You remember how Bobby Kotick fired the senior members of Infinity Ward after the release of MW2?? AND THEN refused to pay them royalties??? If ANYONE in the gaming industry needs to be stopped it's Bobby Kotick, not Capcom. You think you have it bad buying a rehashed version of game? How would you feel if you got canned then refused payment for a game you made?

Bottom line, stop crying.

 

[Technowraith]

I agree that the industry needs to change, but not necessarily in these areas. I personally think Activision is WAAAAAAY more f****d up than Capcom. You remember how Bobby Kotick fired the senior members of Infinity Ward after the release of MW2?? AND THEN refused to pay them royalties??? If ANYONE in the gaming industry needs to be stopped it's Bobby Kotick, not Capcom. You think you have it bad buying a rehashed version of game? How would you feel if you got canned then refused payment for a game you made?

Bottom line, stop crying.

Is that in relation to the whole CoD: Modern Warfare 2 debacle? If so, how would you propose stopping Bobby Kotick, or other "Bobby Koticks?"

In the end, personally, I haven't seen anything that I would hate in the new DMC. I'm certainly interested in it, and will most likely buy it when it comes out.

 

[Dark Drakan]

I agree that the industry needs to change, but not necessarily in these areas. I personally think Activision is WAAAAAAY more f****d up than Capcom. You remember how Bobby Kotick fired the senior members of Infinity Ward after the release of MW2?? AND THEN refused to pay them royalties??? If ANYONE in the gaming industry needs to be stopped it's Bobby Kotick, not Capcom. You think you have it bad buying a rehashed version of game? How would you feel if you got canned then refused payment for a game you made?

Bottom line, stop crying.

Id agree, Activision have turned in the old EA. A money grabbing company who care more about milking franchises and yearly releases while squeezing customers with huge amounts of small DLC downloads. What they did to Infinity Ward was a travesty and the fact that they ended up signing for Activisions rivals EA as Respawn Entertainment serves Activision right. EA did a similair thing to Westwood Studios years ago which was also a travesty but they have since changed their ways to an extent and pumped huge amounts of money into developers and helped create some fantastic games.

 

[wallE156]

Is that in relation to the whole CoD: Modern Warfare 2 debacle? If so, how would you propose stopping Bobby Kotick, or other "Bobby Koticks?"

In the end, personally, I haven't seen anything that I would hate in the new DMC. I'm certainly interested in it, and will most likely buy it when it comes out.

I certainly wouldn't stop him by boycott. And I'm not a lawyer so there is literally nothing I could do, I was just stating that there are worse things happening in the game industry than rehashing games.

You're one of few to like the new DMC, I didn't like the way Dante looked at first but I got over it. I guess you and I are more open to change than most people.

 

[SpawnShooter]

I was gonna go into this big wall post on how it's not just about looks, it's not about change. But I can't be arsed. Read this

But, I've had enough, I'm done.

Also don't ever tell people to be open minded when you bash their opinion without even asking their reasons, acting as if you've taking the higher road cause you support something you F***ing hypocrite.

 

[Darth Angelo]

Honestly, complaining about this isn't going to change anything. In all honesty neither is boycotting strictly because of the sheer number of people you'd have to convince to boycott with you. Even if everyone on this site agreed it wouldn't even put a dent in Capcom or any other big company for that matter. Since we are on the subject of Capcom, why does everyone complain about their business ethics like what they are doing is something new?? How many versions of Street Fighter 2 were there?? Not to mention Alpha and EX.

This isn't 1995 and you can't expect to get away with crap like this anymore just because we are used to them doing it. The industry is being taken more seriously now and the internet is something much more influential and intimidating, this is just one forum but there are a lot of angry DMC fans out there.
I think you underestimate how much Capcom throw "hissy fits" when something doesn't sell as much as they wanted it to. Just 1 game selling badly (like DmC probably will) won't make them bankrupt overnight but it will p*ss them off enough to take notice and realise people won't just buy it because its DMC.
As on the fence/not bothered as I am about DmC atm I respect peoples right to be unhappy about it and want to make their voices heard which unfortunately can only be done one way.

 

[Meg]

You're one of few to like the new DMC, I didn't like the way Dante looked at first but I got over it. I guess you and I are more open to change than most people.

Its not about not being open to change. Its about not liking the changes that are being made. I think the new Dante looks stupid. I thought that before I realized it was Dante. I dislike the style and the gameplay as of now looks like blah. Simple as that.

Nero was a change to the series and I welcomed it with open arms. Why? Because it was a refreshing change! Nero is a good character and I'm glad they included him. Now as far as this reboot goes I haven't seen anything yet that I found interesting. Not a thing. However! There are people who DO like what they've seen and that's lovely. I don't support the reboot, but I support the people who do like it because they have every right to. I think people would be surprised to find that there are a lot of people out there that feel the same way as me.

don't ever tell people to be open minded when you bash their opinion without even asking their reasons, acting as if you've taking the higher road cause you support something you F***ing hypocrite.

Whoa whoa whoa! That doesn't sound like the SS I know and love!

 

[SpawnShooter]

Whoa whoa whoa! That doesn't sound like the SS I know and love!

You're right, sorry everyone and sorry WallE156 I didn't mean to snap at you. I know I kinda started it, but try not to get at each others throats too much, I'm sure no one wants the arguments to spread to other areas.

 

[Technowraith]

Gonna be honest, I haven't seen anything I didn't like so far in what's been presented in the new DMC. Until I'm in front of the screen button mashing the combos or sitting there reading the book trying to figure out how to button mash the combos, I'll give you my opinion then.

Dante's new look is certainly a change from the Dante I've grown familiar with over the course of the DMC games. Nero is an awesome addition to the cast, for sure. Ninja Theory has a real chance at reviving the franchise, so let's hope for the best. Yeah, Dante looks different [insert yadda yadda complaint about dante here] but evolution brings change. I was kinda hoping to see more of Nero, but maybe that's being saved for another game, and hopefully not a MvC (but those aren't bad, just not my style cuz I suck at fighting games)

 

[wallE156]

You're right, sorry everyone and sorry WallE156 I didn't mean to snap at you. I know I kinda started it, but try not to get at each others throats too much, I'm sure no one wants the arguments to spread to other areas.

It's cool, I didn't mean what I said against anyone on here personally, I was just trying to show a different perspective. But honestly reading post after post complaining about the new DMC (90% of which are about Dante's appearance) gets a little old, which is why I was so heated about the subject. I'm referring to gametrailers with the above statement btw. I mean Capcom definitely isn't going to change it back right now, while they might in future releases. From what I've seen of gameplay in DmC it looks alright, I'm also interested in where Ninja Theory is going to take the story.

The industry is being taken more seriously now and the internet is something much more influential and intimidating, this is just one forum but there are a lot of angry DMC fans out there.

I disagree with how influential and intimidating you claim the internet to be. At least when it comes to complaining about games. If we were talking about scandals and something going public I'd agree with you entirely. But that's your opinion.

 

[Darth Angelo]

I disagree with how influential and intimidating you claim the internet to be. At least when it comes to complaining about games. If we were talking about scandals and something going public I'd agree with you entirely. But that's your opinion.

I just meant it in that years ago if someone is p*ssed off about a new game he just complains about it to people he knows most of which don't really care but now they can go to places where there are loads of people like him and they all get together and all go elsewhere to spread the hatred and state their case, I mean here we have already had several members sign on just so they can jump into the DmC section and say
"this game sucks, this isn't DMC, this isn't Dante im not buying it and im begging you not to buy it if you are a proper fan" ive seen that all over youtube videos on about DmC, somewhere there is probably a forum dedicated to slating and botcotting it. Actual power is questionable but unification and influence is definetely higher these days.

While I was still on a high about DMC5 not being about Vergil coming back to life I watched Eventstatus' videos where he rants about why he hates DmC and I couldn't help but agree with him even though I wasn't on his side. I wasn't an angry fan looking for others, I just stumbled upon it by accident and it totally changed my opinion to this day because he actually made a lot of sense, it wasn't just rage for the sake of rage. That ranting session isn't the only of it's kind for sure and I can't be the only person who was kind of on the fence and swayed by someone like that simply because their anger makes them more vocal.

 

[Meg]

I disagree with how influential and intimidating you claim the internet to be. At least when it comes to complaining about games. If we were talking about scandals and something going public I'd agree with you entirely. But that's your opinion.

Actually, fans reactions to Cole's appearance change in inFAMOUS 2 was so overwhelming on the internet that Sucker Punch changed him to look the way he did in the first game.

 

[Technowraith]

The internet is certainly an influential medium. With the potential ability to directly tap into how fans are reacting to a game, a company would be smart to at least ghost fan communities to see what the general opinions are. If they see something that is causing a major concern for players, it would be smart to integrate a solution and fast. Games with high praise evidently mean the company put out some excellent product. Games with low praise, and a lot of complaints mean something went wrong and it's time to address the problems in whatever ways possible. Square Enix fired the entire development team that made FF14. And brought in an entirely new team to take over the project. Not sure how that went. I played FF14 for 20 mins and gave up on it. Despite whatare considered "on-going improvements" I still haven't gone back. So if you're familiar with the whole Fkinal fantasy 14 debacle, you know what happens when things go poorly for a game company.

So what's that to do with Capcom? Absolutely everything depending on how you look at it. Millions of fans collectively become a very powerful voice. Especially if a company stands to lose a lot of potential revenue. Never underestimate the power of the internet.

 

[wallE156]

Actually, fans reactions to Cole's appearance change in inFAMOUS 2 was so overwhelming on the internet that Sucker Punch changed him to look the way he did in the first game.

I thought about that after I posted and that's the only example I can think of. Honestly when that does happen it irritates me. While I do think customer feedback is important in finding bugs/broken characters/etc. that happens after a game comes out. But when a developer buckles on a design because of fan backlash like that it just frustrates me. I feel that the developer should explore whatever creative ideas they have without worrying about the fans point of view. If developers start letting fans make decisions then what need do we have for the developers in the first place?? People shouldn't get what they want by whining IMO. Some people might say that the developers have an obligation to the fans, or that they owe the fans for being loyal. I find this to be complete hogwash and choose to stick with my above statement. The developer doesn't owe the fans anything. But of course in the end I'm sure all the developer cares about is money, so I'm sure it makes sense to cater to the fans every need and complaint. "What? The fans don't like our new idea?? Hurry up change it or they might not buy it... " This should never affect a developer's game. People that are going to buy the game will still buy it. And it might attract a different audience that they didn't have before. I personally liked the way Cole looked before they changed him back. And I'm sure I wasn't the only one. Even if the game does flop I doubt the fanbase would abandon the company all together. Might I remind everyone, that after DMC2...people still bought DMC3. Anyway I'm ranting...I don't think a developer should change something on a game pre-release because of fan complaints, show some backbone developer! lol

The internet is certainly an influential medium. With the potential ability to directly tap into how fans are reacting to a game, a company would be smart to at least ghost fan communities to see what the general opinions are. If they see something that is causing a major concern for players, it would be smart to integrate a solution and fast. Games with high praise evidently mean the company put out some excellent product. Games with low praise, and a lot of complaints mean something went wrong and it's time to address the problems in whatever ways possible. Square Enix fired the entire development team that made FF14. And brought in an entirely new team to take over the project. Not sure how that went. I played FF14 for 20 mins and gave up on it. Despite whatare considered "on-going improvements" I still haven't gone back. So if you're familiar with the whole Fkinal fantasy 14 debacle, you know what happens when things go poorly for a game company.

Yeah this is like what I said in the above...paragraph? lol If it's after a game is out already then it's about finding bugs and other errors in the programming and is extremely important. In FF14's case that game was released LONG before it should have been lol I'm sure if they worked on it for another 6 months to a year before releasing it, it would have gone differently. But back to DmC, the internet is passing judgement on a game that isn't even out yet, hell isn't due out till the middle of next year. People must be seeing something I'm not that they can pass judgement on a game they haven't even played yet and seen a minimum amount of footage on. Can someone please explain to me how they "know" DmC is going to be bad so I'm in the loop?

 

[Meg]

I thought about that after I posted and that's the only example I can think of. Honestly when that does happen it irritates me. While I do think customer feedback is important in finding bugs/broken characters/etc. that happens after a game comes out. But when a developer buckles on a design because of fan backlash like that it just frustrates me. I feel that the developer should explore whatever creative ideas they have without worrying about the fans point of view. If developers start letting fans make decisions then what need do we have for the developers in the first place?? People shouldn't get what they want by whining IMO. Some people might say that the developers have an obligation to the fans, or that they owe the fans for being loyal. I find this to be complete hogwash and choose to stick with my above statement. The developer doesn't owe the fans anything. But of course in the end I'm sure all the developer cares about is money, so I'm sure it makes sense to cater to the fans every need and complaint. "What? The fans don't like our new idea?? Hurry up change it or they might not buy it... " This should never affect a developer's game. People that are going to buy the game will still buy it. And it might attract a different audience that they didn't have before. I personally liked the way Cole looked before they changed him back. And I'm sure I wasn't the only one. Even if the game does flop I doubt the fanbase would abandon the company all together. Might I remind everyone, that after DMC2...people still bought DMC3. Anyway I'm ranting...I don't think a developer should change something on a game pre-release because of fan complaints, show some backbone developer! lol

I'm one of the people that was going to buy inFAMOUS 2 regardless of how Cole looked, but I'm glad they changed it because I think the final result was even better than the first game design. I think of it as getting feedback on a rough draft. Nothing is going to be perfect right off the bat, so if developers listen to the fans and consider their suggestions and address their fears one way or another, then chances are the end result will be better.

When you write a book, you don't write one draft and then get it published right away. That's not how it works. You write and rewrite the story and characters until you get it right, then hand it off to an outside party to look at. They give you feedback and you the writer sits down and reworks the areas that need improvement, rinse and repeat until you're all done. TA DA! The end result is much better than where you started.

This same process can and should be applied to video games. Developers shouldn't be like, "We do what we want because we know best, so there!" because guess what, they DON'T know best. Not one person is the expert on something. Same thing goes for groups if they're all working on the same project. Because they're all working together to develop the story and characters they all look at it from a certain viewpoint. They're familiar with it and know what they want to say. It makes sense to them basically. However, just because they know want they mean doesn't mean everyone else does. Everyone, be it a writer, a game developer, whatever, needs an outside person or people to look at what they are doing and give constructive criticism.

So yeah, a developer should listen to the fans. However, that doesn't mean they should bend to every whim, but instead take into consideration what the fans are saying, look at their game objectively, and then decide if what the fans are saying should be changed would benefit from changing.

The thing that bugs me about Capcom/NT regarding the reboot (amongst other things) is that they act like they are the end all be all experts on the game. They don't care about addressing concerns-not even not changing stuff, just acknowledging that the fans are being heard- instead they act all smug, call the fans sheep, and go on like they know everything without caring about a second opinion. Considering everything I just said that is a method for disaster.

 

[wallE156]

I'm one of the people that was going to buy inFAMOUS 2 regardless of how Cole looked, but I'm glad they changed it because I think the final result was even better than the first game design. I think of it as getting feedback on a rough draft. Nothing is going to be perfect right off the bat, so if developers listen to the fans and consider their suggestions and address their fears one way or another, then chances are the end result will be better.

When you write a book, you don't write one draft and then get it published right away. That's not how it works. You write and rewrite the story and characters until you get it right, then hand it off to an outside party to look at. They give you feedback and you the writer sits down and reworks the areas that need improvement, rinse and repeat until you're all done. TA DA! The end result is much better than where you started.

This same process can and should be applied to video games. Developers shouldn't be like, "We do what we want because we know best, so there!" because guess what, they DON'T know best. Not one person is the expert on something. Same thing goes for groups if they're all working on the same project. Because they're all working together to develop the story and characters they all look at it from a certain viewpoint. They're familiar with it and know what they want to say. It makes sense to them basically. However, just because they know want they mean doesn't mean everyone else does. Everyone, be it a writer, a game developer, whatever, needs an outside person or people to look at what they are doing and give constructive criticism.

So yeah, a developer should listen to the fans. However, that doesn't mean they should bend to every whim, but instead take into consideration what the fans are saying, look at their game objectively, and then decide if what the fans are saying should be changed would benefit from changing.

The thing that bugs me about Capcom/NT regarding the reboot (amongst other things) is that they act like they are the end all be all experts on the game. They don't care about addressing concerns-not even not changing stuff, just acknowledging that the fans are being heard- instead they act all smug, call the fans sheep, and go on like they know everything without caring about a second opinion. Considering everything I just said that is a method for disaster.

I agree with everything you said about getting a rough draft looked at before release. Although the rough draft shouldn't be edited and commented on by fans, in the case of books there are people who get paid to do that. I don't know if there is an equivalent in the game industry but there should be because a rough draft should be looked upon before serious development occurs. But like I said fans shouldn't be doing it, they are "too close" to the situation if I may say that. Third party perspective is always a good thing, but not a fan's perspective. This would bring a conflict of interests.

 

[Meg]

I agree with everything you said about getting a rough draft looked at before release. Although the rough draft shouldn't be edited and commented on by fans, in the case of books there are people who get paid to do that. I don't know if there is an equivalent in the game industry but there should be because a rough draft should be looked upon before serious development occurs. But like I said fans shouldn't be doing it, they are "too close" to the situation if I may say that. Third party perspective is always a good thing, but not a fan's perspective. This would bring a conflict of interests.

Well sure there are people who get paid to do it, but its not like writers never show their families and friends. They to are close to the situation as you said. To me, saying fans shouldn't have a say makes it sound like they don't know what their talking about when in fact fans DO know what they're talking about otherwise they wouldn't be fans in the first place. Now of course developers shouldn't take everything fans say into considerations because their heads would explode, but to ignore them completely during development is silly because they are the ones that are going to buy the game!

Although I do understand where you are coming from.

 

[Technowraith]

I think this whole discussion can be boiled down to (as an example) "Ford is updating the Mustang model line, but everyone hates it because they don't fully know what the changes actually are yet."

 

[wallE156]

^^^lol well said

 

[Meg]

I think this whole discussion can be boiled down to (as an example) "Ford is updating the Mustang model line, but everyone hates it because they don't fully know what the changes actually are yet."

>.>
Actually no. Not at all. Honestly have you been reading this thread at all, by golly!

.....I don't think I ever used by golly before. 0_0