Maybe it's the whole genre.

[KenKen]

Hey guys, I've returned.
I just thought this warranted saying at least once:

It's abundantly clear that DmC didn't meet expectations, but it's also clear that no other hack-and-slash released this past twelve months did.

I hope I'm wrong, but it seems like the hack-and-slash is a dying genre. It happened to mascot platformers after current-Gen consoles got big, and it happened to fighting games (for a short while) after Tekken 4 was released.

But look back ten years ago til around the mid-2000s. We had Otogi, Shinobi, Ninja Gaiden, and even much more obscure games like Bujingai. The genre was thriving at that point.

But interest wanes, and genres die. Especially during this last leg of this console generation.

Even though gamers really like violence (myself included), maybe we can blame the gigantic first person shooter market or the resurgence of fighting games--maybe a combination of the two--for scooping up a larger chunk of casual gamers who would once go to hack-and-slashes for their regular violence fix.

Despite what we thought would happen:
Lollipop Chainsaw, Ninja Gaiden 3, God of War 4, and MGR:R all undersold regardless of whether or not they were good and regardless of whether or not their names once held the almighty power of brand recognition.I'm looking at you, God of War. Ascension sold a fraction of what GoW3 did. And hey, maybe it's a marketing failure or maybe it's just the general interest shifting around, but a trend is a trend.

So I'm hoping the trend breaks with Bayonetta 2 and the genre gets popular again, but I'd be genuinely surprised if Hack and Slashes remain a staple of consoles into the next generation.

Again, I'm hoping (praying) that I'm wrong; hoping that we'll get a DmC 2 one day, but we'll see.

Thank you Kamiya for basically inventing the modern hack-and-slash. And then re-inventing it with the Bayonetta games.
Thank you NT for getting me into Devil May Cry.
Thank you DMC.org for mostly being a hub of kind, thoughtful, discussion on DmC.
And cheers, all of you.

 

[DreadnoughtDT]

Unfortunately, this is exactly what I think. Despite being good games, the games that you've listed all undersold, and I fear just as you fear, that it's interest in the genre waning. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if several genres die from this.

I just hope that Bayonetta 2 and Killer is Dead will revive the genre, if only for a little while.

 

[KenKen]

Unfortunately, this is exactly what I think. Despite being good games, the games that you've listed all undersold, and I fear just as you fear, that it's interest in the genre waning. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if several genres die from this.

I just hope that Bayonetta 2 and Killer is Dead will revive the genre, if only for a little while.

Killer is Dead! I need to look into that one, actually.

Like all hack and slashes, I hope it's good.
I must say since I joined the DmC fanbase back in 2011, the whole genre really has grown on me.

 

[DreadnoughtDT]

Killer is Dead! I need to look into that one, actually.

Like all hack and slashes, I hope it's good.
I must say since I joined the DmC fanbase back in 2011, the whole genre really has grown on me.

Hack n slashes are great for mindless fun. Love violence? Hack n slash! Love fighting? Hack n slash! Love big, epic fights? Hack n slash! Love awesome weapons! HACK N SLASH!

I still think that DMC and No More Heroes are some of the greatest hack n slashes ever, with Ninja Gaiden coming close behind. And Killer is Dead is definitely gonna be awesome. Haven't had the chance to play Killer7 yet, though...

 

[Sunaka Marién]

*sigh* this is just... heartbreaking. I just don't get it. These are such great games, with such diverse characters and beautiful world and people simply ignore it.

 

[DreadnoughtDT]

*sigh* this is just... heartbreaking. I just don't get it. These are such great games, with such diverse characters and beautiful world and people simply ignore it.

Because it's not what's "cool", unfortunately... If you go up to a person and go "Yeah, I play Call of Duty!" they'll be all like "Hey, cool! Come hang out with us. ^^" But if you go up to them and say "I play Devil May Cry!" They look at you like you're crazy.

 

[Stylish Nero]

Hack n slashes are great for mindless fun. Love violence? Hack n slash! Love fighting? Hack n slash! Love big, epic fights? Hack n slash! Love awesome weapons! HACK N SLASH!

I still think that DMC and No More Heroes are some of the greatest hack n slashes ever, with Ninja Gaiden coming close behind. And Killer is Dead is definitely gonna be awesome. Haven't had the chance to play Killer7 yet, though...

Killer7 isn't a hack n slash its a on rail shooter.

Or something like it.

 

[DreadnoughtDT]

Killer7 isn't a hack n slash its a on rail shooter

Or something like it.

I didn't know. >_<

 

[IncarnatedDemon]

I dont think the genre has a significant role as to why DmC sold 1.1m and not 2m or 3m.

Here are the factors i believe caused the sales:
1) Gameplay did not meet people's expectations
2) It was a reboot people did not ask for
3) It featured a character people did not ask for
4) Capcom acted like a douchebag
5) Tameem was a douchebag
6) The fans were patronized by gaming media which elevated the hate e.g "Why u dont like cuz its white hair?!"
7) The story did not meet people's expectations

This article sums up DmC pretty well

 

[OppressedWriter]

I just think unless your an FPS nowadays or an aggressively marketed first party title it's really tough to get good sales. Even the new god of war didn't sell that well. It truly is a struggling genre, and sadly also a very expensive one to make games for.

 

[Loopy]

I just think unless your an FPS nowadays or an aggressively marketed first party title it's really tough to get good sales. Even the new god of war didn't sell that well. It truly is a struggling genre, and sadly also a very expensive one to make games for.

Sadly, very true. These days FPS is what is most popular. But things like this go in cycles. FPS may be popular now, but it will lose popularity sometime and another genre of game will take its place.

 

[Stylish Nero]

I just think unless your an FPS nowadays or an aggressively marketed first party title it's really tough to get good sales. Even the new god of war didn't sell that well. It truly is a struggling genre, and sadly also a very expensive one to make games for.

Its not the genre its the games in the genre....all the recent HnS games that have came out have all sucked or the only one that undersold that was actually good were Darksider 2 and Bayonetta.

Despite what we thought would happen:
Lollipop Chainsaw, Ninja Gaiden 3, God of War 4, and MGR:R all undersold regardless of whether or not they were good and regardless of whether or not their names once held the almighty power of brand recognition.I'm looking at you, God of War. Ascension sold a fraction of what GoW3 did. And hey, maybe it's a marketing failure or maybe it's just the general interest shifting around, but a trend is a trend.

Ninja Gaiden 3 was a BAD game (it was clear all over the reviews and overall reception) so it got BAD sales no it deserved BAD sales.

GoW: Ascensions was disappointing to a majority of the fanbase and even the controversy of its alleged sexism hindered it and overall poor reception.

Lollipop Chainsaw was a mediocre game with an appeal that won't appeal with everyone....if anything the fact that games must be realistic, gritty, and serious is what is the true hindrance to the gaming industry. Plus the rather crap or last gen graphics and technical issues (load times) were as clear as day.

MGR last I checked met Kojima's expectations but still the fact that the gaming media and reviewers was attacking the game on the basis of being way too short is what also negatively affected its sales (I've seen comments of people not buying the game since it was short).

However, the real problem of hack and slash is the Like God of War or Like Devil May Cry syndrome. Since those games are the most iconic/popular HnS every hack and slash are compared to them (unless if your Ninja Gaiden but other games are compared to that too) and that leads a majority of people to not try them out with the played one played them all mentality (the fact is the media tries to paint most FPS as unique to the FPS genre).

One problem with hack and slash is they're still stuck in the trappings of not truly evolving or finding a new appeal....NOT ALL Hack and Slash has to be combo heavy deep action games like DMC or brutally hard and fast paced like MGR or brutal combo mash fests like God of War it can be unique like No More Heroes which is an open world sand box hack and slash (which sold to Suda's liking) or whatever Killer is Dead is. KiD is in fact trying to appeal to people who aren't only into hack and slash which are the problems of modern day hack and slash they've lost their charm or their current charm got old and are just hack and slash....that and after DMC4 quality hack and slash started going down (Bayonetta was still good though).

They either need to ditch certain things such as being linear or be more like DMC1/DMC3 or develop a dual genre like KiD and NMH like a Hack and Slash Survival Horror (you can say this is what DMC1 was)....or a Hack and Slash Platformer (better than DmC).

 

[OppressedWriter]

But Bayonetta didn't sell either. So I don't understand the argument. I honestly believe DmC is an excellent hack and slash game. And would sell fine if the genre had a wider appeal than it does now. All those games you mentioned all seem to struggle to reach 2 million in sales, that seems to be the threshold for this genre.

In fact, DMC3 sold the least out of all DMC games, and I find that to be the best out of the previous DmC games.

I think in the end you can count on one hand hack and slash games that have reached the 3+ million mark in sales.

 

[xMobilemux]

MGR sold good didn't it? I heard Kojima was very happy with the sales.
DmC sold bad because the fanbase made sure it did.
GoW:A sold less because the a good deal of the people who play GoW just wanted the epic conclusion to GoW which was GoW3, they had enough after that and want something new. Same could be said about Halo 4, it sold less, and my money says Halo 5 is gonna do worse due to the awful Xbox One.

if anything the fact that games must be realistic, gritty, and serious is what is the true hindrance to the gaming industry.

That is a massive problem with gaming right now, the serious, realistic and gritty is getting boring and stupid fun games like Lollipop Chainsaw are becoming rare.

Lollipop Chainsaw was the last game I had a barrel of laughs with before Blood Dragon came along. The serious, realistic and gritty need to bugger off for a while and gaming needs to do something different for modern audiences, Blood Dragon was a perfect example.

 

[OppressedWriter]

MGR sold good didn't it? I heard Kojima was very happy with the sales.
DmC sold bad because the fanbase made sure it did.
GoW:A sold less because the a good deal of the people who play GoW just wanted the epic conclusion to GoW which was GoW3, they had enough after that and want something new. Same could be said about Halo 4, it sold less, and my money says Halo 5 is gonna do worse due to the awful Xbox One.

DmC sold fine relative to the genre, in fact, I think the problem was the only people who bought it were hack and slash fans, core gamers, if you will, and not any casuals. Anyway, the overall point we're discussing is the genre's lackluster sales overall. They all seem to peter out at about 1-2 million in sales, which means for the cost it takes to make them, they're not profitable enough to be financed, and therefore we'll be less likely to see them in the future.

 

[Alittleacorn]

DmC sold fine relative to the genre, in fact, I think the problem was the only people who bought it were hack and slash fans, core gamers, if you will, and not any casuals. Anyway, the overall point we're discussing is the genre's lackluster sales overall. They all seem to peter out at about 1-2 million in sales, which means for the cost it takes to make them, they're not profitable enough to be financed, and therefore we'll be less likely to see them in the future.

Do people just not enjoy playing single player games as much anymore? I wonder why Hack n Slash is struggling. Or is cod and multiplayer killing everything.

 

[Stylish Nero]

But bayonetta didn't sell either. So I don't understand the argument. I honestly believe DmC is an excellent hack and slash game. And would sell fine if the genre had a wider appeal than it does now. All those games you mentioned all seem to struggle to reach 2 million in sales, that seems to be the threshold for this genre.

In fact, DMC3 sold the least out of all DMC games, and I find that to be the best out of the previous dmc games.

DmC would've sell better if it (well NT and Capcom) didn't **** off a majority of the fanbase.

DMC3's sales were negatively affected by DMC2 and even then thanks to DMC3, DMC4 wouldn't have sold as much.

Bayonetta suffered from the same problem Lollipop Chainsaw had (didn't had much overall appeal due to well 1) starring an overly sexualized female protagonist 2) feeling too Japanesy and bright and colorful for how gaming is commonly is...dark, gritty, gray, serious, and sh*T and 3) the Like Devil May Cry syndrome and it well being a new IP).

Most hack and slash don't sell well because they're not DMC and GoW. New DmC and GoW didn't sell because they didn't appeal to a strong part of its established fanbase and the controversy behind them hindered their sales not them being hack and slash.

 

[Alittleacorn]

Most hack and slash don't sell well because they're not DMC and GoW. New DmC and GoW didn't sell because they didn't appeal to a strong part of its established fanbase and the controversy behind them hindered their sales not them being hack and slash.

Wait, GoW didn't do well? I thought it did okay o.o what was wrong with it? [I haven't played any of them, so...meep T.T]

 

[xMobilemux]

Wait, GoW didn't do well? I thought it did okay o.o what was wrong with it? [I haven't played any of them, so...meep T.T]

It was a disappointing game, but I think the main problem was that, since God of War already had it's big ending, Kratos killed his nemesis and ended the main story, then the majority of the players went "ok i finished the series, time for something new", then a prequel showed up and most players went "nah I finished the story, don't wanna know what happened before it all".

 

[OppressedWriter]

Wait, GoW didn't do well? I thought it did okay o.o what was wrong with it? [I haven't played any of them, so...meep T.T]

GoW has a huge budget, i'm sure it broke even, but the rich suits that finance games aren't content with breaking even. A GoW title is expected to sell 3+ million. God of War 3 sold 4.6 million by the end of its run, and an incredible 1 million plus during its first week, those fancy set pieces aren't cheap, and that's the kind of absurd numbers needed for the financiers to be happy with their investment in a GoW title.

That being said, I also think the budget for DmC might have been cheaper than DMC4, because 4 had new tech and a lot of scripted cut scenes (these cost a lot of money), where as DmC has very few extended animation sequences, and used more established tech.