Maybe it's the whole genre.

[Stylish Nero]

Wait, GoW didn't do well? I thought it did okay o.o what was wrong with it? [I haven't played any of them, so...meep T.T]

It sold less than the previous ones and its mostly due to people losing interest after GoW3 because GoWA was milking it and the fans knew that....even I as a non-GoW fan felt GoW3 was a proper enough conclusion and Santa Monica should've just made a new IP or Sony push out a new hack and slash series or push Heavenly Sword as their key hack and slash.

Another thing about hack and slash is that the consumers for that in fact has more integrity than FPS or other genre consumers where a COD fan would complain they get the same sh*t with COD and b*tch and moan about it or even casuals who just play FPS but at the end of the day still buys the game and complains later and its rinse and repeat where with HnS, fans of certain series won't buy a game or sequel if 1 detail about it they don't like or is the same game and etc.

 

[IncarnatedDemon]

Comparing Bayonetta to DmC?

Am i wrong here but isnt there a significant factor to acknowledge before you compare these two?

Like DmC being the fifth iteration of DMC gameplay which with past iteration gave a more polished gameplay.
And the fact DmC was more known thanks to DMC and thus had alot of attention without Capcom needing to market it.

Bayonetta on other hand when released was barely known to anyone.

When Bayonetta 5 is released and it sells 1.1m

Then i think its right to compare Bayonetta to DmC

Then Bayo 5 would be fifth iteration of Bayo gameplay
And DmC IS the fifth iteration (although lesser) of DMC gameplay

IN CONCLUSION
Comparing Bayo 1 with DmC isnt so valid in my opinion to conclude that "Yeah the genre are not selling good".

MGR sold well. Kojima approves and i hear it sold better than DmC. And MGR is also a new game not a fifth iteration of a established gameplay like DmC was.




Or do you think i am being wrong?

 

[Alittleacorn]

It was a disappointing game, but I think the main problem was that, since God of War already had it's big ending, Kratos killed his nemesis and ended the main story, then the majority of the players went "ok i finished the series, time for something new", then a prequel showed up and most players went "nah I finished the story, don't wanna know what happened before it all".

Oh, the recent installment was a prequel. I didn't know that. But I understand, that's why I felt Metal Gear Solid 4 to me was the last game in that series, because it set itself up as the final chapter in Snake's story. I don't know if that guy in MGS5 is him still or just a copy, but who knows. But I just feel like they should've let MGS end and let their spin off with Raiden continue, even if he seemed happy before with his family.

 

[xMobilemux]

Oh, the recent installment was a prequel. I didn't know that. But I understand, that's why I felt Metal Gear Solid 4 to me was the last game in that series, because it set itself up as the final chapter in Snake's story. I don't know if that guy in MGS5 is him still or just a copy, but who knows. But I just feel like they should've let MGS end and let their spin off with Raiden continue, even if he seemed happy before with his family.

MGS4 finished Solid Snakes story, MGS5 will continue Naked Snakes story(they're two different people). MGR and future games was to feature Raidens(and maybe Grey Fox's) story.

 

[Stylish Nero]

Its because of this integrity is why games like DmC or NG3 bombs or sell less than its predecessors.

If they think a game might be crap they won't buy it versus FPS (mostly CoD fans) who will say a game might be crap but buy said game day one.

I guess its due to the guilty pleasures of multiplayer and online games.

We can have successful fps/tps that don't have multiplayer (although single player focused games that do sell well like Uncharted, Tomb Raider, and Last of Us tend to have a multiplayer option thank God for Bioshock).

Well I say create a multiplayer hack and slash and not a hack and slash with a tacked on multiplayer (Ascensions). I was hoping that No More Heroes online multiplayer iOS game became successful so that it can become a console or PC release but nope they had to cancel it.

 

[OppressedWriter]

snip

Bayonetta is just one example of a recent hack and slash with a big production budget and decent marketing. If you'd like to list other modern hack and slash games that have passed to 2-3 million threshold in the past few years please list them, because I can't seem to find any.

As for MGR, yeah, it sold okay considering it had the MGR name on it, the MGR name is magnitudes bigger than the DMC franchise, and that's just a fact.

I think currently sales of MGR sit somewhere around 1.1 million similar to DmC, i'd be interested to see what they are when the pc version is released and a few months down the line, if konami ever updates their numbers, are they a public company like capcom?

 

[DreadnoughtDT]

Oh, the recent installment was a prequel. I didn't know that. But I understand, that's why I felt Metal Gear Solid 4 to me was the last game in that series, because it set itself up as the final chapter in Snake's story. I don't know if that guy in MGS5 is him still or just a copy, but who knows. But I just feel like they should've let MGS end and let their spin off with Raiden continue, even if he seemed happy before with his family.

Actually, that would be Naked Snake, AKA Big Boss. The person that Solid Snake is a copy of.

 

[IncarnatedDemon]

Bayonetta is just one example of a recent hack and slash with a big production budget and decent marketing. If you'd like to list other modern hack and slash games that have passed to 2-3 million threshold in the past few years please list them, because I can't seem to find any.

As for MGR, yeah, it sold okay considering it had the MGR name on it, the MGR name is magnitudes bigger than the DMC franchise, and that's just a fact.

Good point about MGR. I applaud you for that
Which makes MGR invalid to bring up , ill not bring that up again.

I dont know of any game that has sold 2-3m within last few years.
I have no fact to show to

But i honestly believe DmC would have sold past 2m and that the reason it sold 1.1m was not because of the genre.



EDIT:
Darkness 2 - a underrated FPS sold 500K units.

Same genre as call of duty which have reached 7-10m sales.

 

[OppressedWriter]

Good point about MGR. I applaud you for that
Which makes MGR invalid to bring up , ill not bring that up again.

I dont know of any game that has sold 2-3m within last few years.
I have no fact to show to

But i honestly believe DmC would have sold past 2m and that the reason it sold 1.1m was not because of the genre.



EDIT:
Darkness 2 - a underrated FPS sold 500K units.

Same genre as call of duty which have reached 7-10m sales.

''

But I honestly think Hack and Slash is the only genre worth comparing here. The one game Darkness 2, not sure if its really a big game, is an anomaly considering most big name fps tend to sell pretty well across the board.

 

[DreadnoughtDT]

The reason why Darkness 2 wasn't well-received was because of the changes that were made to the game's formula.

 

[Stylish Nero]

There are a crap ton of FPS that sell bad.

Plus its not the fact its a FPS its the style of game.

 

[OppressedWriter]

We're still discussing hack and slash though. That's only genre relevant really to this discussion.

 

[IncarnatedDemon]

The reason why Darkness 2 wasn't well-received was because of the changes that were made to the game's formula.

I had more fun with Darkness 2 than Darkness 1 to be honest.

 

[DreadnoughtDT]

I had more fun with Darkness 2 than Darkness 1 to be honest.

Well, that's your opinion and you're entitled to it. I liked Metroid: Other M and I know tons of people hated it, and my favorite DMC is DMC2, so I don't judge people if they like the black sheep of a series.

 

[IncarnatedDemon]

God of War III was first released in North America on March 16, 2010.[3] It was released on March 18, 2010, in Australia, March 19 in Europe, and March 25 in Japan. God of War III outsold its predecessor by nearly 400,000 units in its first week.[51] According to retail tracker NPD Group, God of War III sold approximately 1.1 million copies in the United States by the end of March 2010. It was the best-selling game on any console; its opening-month sales were 32 percent higher than those of its predecessor, God of War II.[52] By June 2012 God of War III had sold almost 5.2 million copies worldwide: approximately 2.8 million in North America, 2 million in PAL regions and 417,866 in Japan and Asia. God of War III is the best-selling game in the series.[53] The game is also available in the PlayStation 3's lineup of Greatest Hits.[54] On August 28, 2012, God of War III—along with the remastered versions of God of War, God of War II, God of War: Chains of Olympus, and God of War: Ghost of Sparta—was released as part of the God of War Saga under Sony's new line of PlayStation Collections for the PlayStation 3 in North America.

God of War 3 (2010) sold 5.2m.

Thats a game that has went past the 2m in few months.

 

[OppressedWriter]

God of War 3 (2010) sold 5.2m.

Thats a game that has went past the 2m in few months.

GoW has a huge budget, i'm sure it broke even, but the rich suits that finance games aren't content with breaking even. A GoW title is expected to sell 3+ million. God of War 3 sold 4.6 million by the end of its run, and an incredible 1 million plus during its first week, those fancy set pieces aren't cheap, and that's the kind of absurd numbers needed for the financiers to be happy with their investment in a GoW title.

That being said, I also think the budget for DmC might have been cheaper than DMC4, because 4 had new tech and a lot of scripted cut scenes (these cost a lot of money), where as DmC has very few extended animation sequences, and used more established tech.

Already mentioned god of war 3 doesn't count as a recent title.

 

[Stylish Nero]

We're still discussing hack and slash though. That's only genre relevant really to this discussion.

Well people say that hack and slash are dying due to FPS well its not FPS for even FPS can sell badly as well....its mainly a couple of games that attract gamers attention (COD, Halo, BF, etc).

 

[Chancey289]

Ugh more MGR, I had some fun with MGR but it isn't that great and I want to see Kojima more involved and actually write a great story for it with Gray Fox. MGR is like the popcorn game of the Metal Gear series.

You guys probably won't see where I'm coming from because you're probably not Metal Gear fans but, even though I don't care for Raiden they shouldn't have made the game in the future and do this with Raiden.

At the end of MGS 4 Raiden has his resolution. He's done with fighting and he was so drained. Replaying MGS 4 again I forgot some of the stuff Raiden did in that game (and maybe developed a little more appreciation for him) so that's why MGR annoys me. It kind of tries to cancel out his resolution in MGS 4 where he was giving up the fighting and sticking with his family. He has every right to just quit. Making him suit up in Rising was like well, f*ck. NO.

I want another Cyborg Ninja game and also one starring Gray Fox but, Gray Fox needs also the Kojima story telling treatment because he's a tragic character that deserves that kind of special attention.

 

[Chancey289]

And as for the original topic at hand, it's an ailing genre.

 

[EllDawn]

Do people just not enjoy playing single player games as much anymore? :blink: I wonder why Hack n Slash is struggling. Or is cod and multiplayer killing everything.

This is what I think is the real problem. College students, that are gamers, use online multi-player games as a way to keep in contact and I'm sure they're a big percentage of the audience games are aiming for. If they can't use the game as a social activity, they're probably less likely to buy it. So single player games are selling less.