Let's Discuss Some more!

[Meg]

After talking to a cool guy on here about this I thought I asked you guys. However, I couldn't be bothered to look for the Let's Discuss thread in order to revive it, so I'm making a new one. XD

Ok, so here's some things we talked about in class. What do you guys think?

Does bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki make America a terrible country? Was it even necessary?
Is America as bad, or even worse than Al Qaeda?

On that note:

What are your thoughts on the New York City Mosque?

 

[aka958]

I don't know about the New York Mosque but I know a few things to say about the US bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

But that would take too long time and I'm tired of arguing. So I'll just say it straight out with a summary: USA is the only country who has used Nuclear weapons against another country, they are the only one who've killed hundreds of thousands of innocent citizens using that method. How come they can go out to war because another country is building nuclear weapons? How come they can continue their production of nuclear weapons?

I won't go further on about it, since I'm just sick tired of pointless arguing and the US. :\

 

[Meg]

^ Basically, people are trying to build a mosque that happens to be close to Ground Zero. After 9/11 a lot of Americans were really afraid of and hated Muslims and they think that building the mosque there is an insult.


Also, this isn't pointless arguing, its a discussion to see what other people believe and maybe even getting a better understanding of things.

On that note!

Why does the US go to war with countries that are trying to build nuclear weapons? Why that be the security dilemma. And while its true America was the only country to use nuclear weapons, its not like no other country harmed civilians in inhumane ways. Germany with the concentration camps, Soviet Union with the gulags, Japan with the Rape of Nanjing, and so on. Every country has some kind of stain on its hands.

 

[aka958]

^ Basically, people are trying to build a mosque that happens to be close to Ground Zero. After 9/11 a lot of Americans were really afraid of and hated Muslims and they think that building the mosque there is an insult.


Also, this isn't pointless arguing, its a discussion to see what other people believe and maybe even getting a better understanding of things.

On that note!

Why does the US go to war with countries that are trying to build nuclear weapons? Why that be the security dilemma. And while its true America was the only country to use nuclear weapons, its not like no other country harmed civilians in inhumane ways. Germany with the concentration camps, Soviet Union with the gulags, Japan with the Rape of Nanjing, and so on. Every country has some kind of stain on its hands.

Yeah, they do, but that isn't what I said. Why is it that the USA can freely attack anyone blaming them for making nuclear weapons when no one but the USA has used it in war?
It has nothing to do with every country having some kind of stain on it's hands.

USA is the only one who've used Nuclear weapons at all and against civil cities. They continue their production saying they are the good guys and use other countries producing nuclear weapons as an excuse for war. Iraq, number 1 example, I don't remember that they found any nuclear facilities.
If I'm wrong, please convince me different with evidence, not with media and just plain words.

Edit: What's wrong with having a Mosque? Is really USA that hostile towards foreign people?
In Sweden we have churches, mosques, and other kind of temples for every religion and we are really accepting to all kinds of religions and people. Except the ones who claims to be patriots of Sweden when they are just pure nazists. :\

 

[Meg]

Yeah, they do, but that isn't what I said. Why is it that the USA can freely attack anyone blaming them for making nuclear weapons when no one but the USA has used it in war?
It has nothing to do with every country having some kind of stain on it's hands.

USA is the only one who've used Nuclear weapons at all and against civil cities. They continue their production saying they are the good guys and use other countries producing nuclear weapons as an excuse for war. Iraq, number 1 example, I don't remember that they found any nuclear facilities.
If I'm wrong, please convince me different with evidence, not with media and just plain words.

I was simply making a point.

Security dilemma: "is a term used in international relations and refers to a situation in which actions by a state intended to heighten its security, such as increasing its military strength or making alliances, can lead other states to respond with similar measures, producing increased tensions that create conflict, even when no side really desires it."

Source:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security_dilemma

That is what's happening. America sees countries it doesn't like trying to get nuclear weapons. They take this as a threat even though those other countries are just trying to defend themselves since if they also have the bomb, then a country with it won't want to use it because that country can just use theirs.

While this doesn't make it right, the US dropping A-bombs on Japan, in a way, acted as a type of deterrence for the bombs to ever be used again.

EDIT in response to your EDIT: People are stupid.

 

[aka958]

See? This is what I don't like in arguing. :\

Still no proof that the US found any Nuclear facilities in Iraq.

There is nothing to be gained from discussing, some believe in media, some doesn't. There will just end up in dispute just because people think different. Hell, even WITH evidence backed up against people they still stay as stubborn. I've seen but a few that is just a handful of people.

 

[Meg]

See? This is what I don't like in arguing. :\

Still no proof that the US found any Nuclear facilities in Iraq.

There is nothing to be gained from discussing, some believe in media, some doesn't. There will just end up in dispute just because people think different. Hell, even WITH evidence backed up against people they still stay as stubborn. I've seen but a few that is just a handful of people.

There may or may not have been proof of nuclear facilities in Iraq, but what I'm doing is explaining why the US gets up in other countries business about it. Besides, there are lots of things the government doesn't tell us about. we don't know what they found in Iraq.

There is lot to be gained by discussing. People can gain a better understanding of other peoples' belief as well as their own. Not everyone winds up arguing and in a dispute over something. Smart reasonable people can disagree reasonably. If you don't see the point in having a discussion and would rather not get in one than don't respond since no one is forcing you to in the first place. *glues Aka's hands to keyboard* Mwahaha!

 

[aka958]

There may or may not have been proof of nuclear facilities in Iraq, but what I'm doing is explaining why the US gets up in other countries business about it. Besides, there are lots of things the government doesn't tell us about. we don't know what they found in Iraq.

There is lot to be gained by discussing. People can gain a better understanding of other peoples' belief as well as their own. Not everyone winds up arguing and in a dispute over something. Smart reasonable people can disagree reasonably. If you don't see the point in having a discussion and would rather not get in one than don't respond since no one is forcing you to in the first place. *glues Aka's hands to keyboard* Mwahaha!

But we know one thing that they did found. They found oil.

And with that I leave the discussion because my hands are immune against glue. They are so soft you could use them as pillows. xP

 

[Meg]

But we know one thing that they did found. They found oil.

^ Not that they had to really look for it.

 

[SpawnShooter]

in response to the "is america terrible for attacking whom they have and the way they did it" i dont think theve neccessaceraly done anything right or wrong they did what was importatant to make a statement.

See, the way i see it is that America stand apart from the rest of the world, because they have such dominance as everything such as the media, fashion, resource development and military power, they almost have a responsibility as the worlds peacekeepers(i in no way condone any lives lost as a result of disagreements, trivial matters or tyranny in the past)and im sure that if any major threat announced itself, it would be America that was the ones to stop it, i personally see them as the *true U.N* cause lets be honest if the world went to war against America, America would probably win.

and in response to the New York city mosque, I think Its FU**IN discusting

EDITn a funny side note Megs "lets discuss" thread is at the bottom in simular threads

 

[Richtofen]

For the A-bomb on Japan...we briefly talked about it in history class but this is what I think about it. Since the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor, it gave the US a perfect opportunity to 'test' out their new bomb they created. It was also an act to strike fear into the enemy by pretty much saying "Do any more damage and we will drop more bombs on your country." In other words, to show the world who's boss.

On the New York Mosque...I don't really know what to say about it since it has to do with the US of A. I'm not part of any religion so I don't have anything to add to it. Other than I don't see anything wrong with the Mosque...

 

[Meg]

For the A-bomb on Japan...we briefly talked about it in history class but this is what I think about it. Since the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor, it gave the US a perfect opportunity to 'test' out their new bomb they created. It was also an act to strike fear into the enemy by pretty much saying "Do any more damage and we will drop more bombs on your country." In other words, to show the world who's boss.

Top US generals who were fighting in the pacific said that the bombs weren't necessary and that America would have won the war within two weeks (I believe Eisenhower was the one that said that). The Japanese even offered to surrender on the 7th, the day after the bomb was dropped, but the US dropped another bomb on the 9th and THEN agreed to the Japanese surrender. Oh sure it showed just how powerful America is especially to the Soviet Union, but that doesn't change the fact that it was unnecessary to win the war and morally wrong.

 

[Richtofen]

Top US generals who were fighting in the pacific said that the bombs weren't necessary and that America would have won the war within two weeks (I believe Eisenhower was the one that said that). The Japanese even offered to surrender on the 7th, the day after the bomb was dropped, but the US dropped another bomb on the 9th and THEN agreed to the Japanese surrender. Oh sure it showed just how powerful America is especially to the Soviet Union, but that doesn't change the fact that it was unnecessary to win the war and morally wrong.

It was definately unnecessary and it is morally wrong. What sickens me though is that some people don't treat others like human beings...I just find it disturbing.

 

[SpawnShooter]

i didnt know about the surrender thing, i am however glad the cold war never "heated up" i do find it amazing how there is still wars in this day except now its so much more cloak and dagger than it used to be.

Civilizations are categorized into 3 groups type 1,2 and 3, humans arnt even 1 yet.There are general guide lines that faction each type and one of them is a "unified planet" however most civilizations would destroy themselves before this happened.

Do you think the mankind would unite under one banner, or choose self-destruction first?

 

[Angelo Credo]

I've always taken tremendous issue with America's gung-ho attitude towards just about everything, war in particular.
The country as a whole considers itself to be the "big dog" of the world, when really it's just the youngest brat with the biggest toys.

Hiroshima always sickened me, I wanted to believe for the longest time that it was a last resort counter-measure to some inevitable stalemate, but the more I talk about it, the more I see it as America just using Japan as a convenient testing ground for their new weapon.

To be fair, America's in a pretty sad state at the moment, they haven't won a real war against a proper enemy since WWII and ever since then, their government has been sending it into pointless, greed fueled wars in order to re-establish the sense of heroism that came with the victory in WWII. (Even though we did most of the work, they came in at the last minute.)

Now, don't get me wrong, I don't hate Americans, I hate America. The country as an entity, the government, not the citizens.
I've always been loathe of the fact that they believe they can just waltz into any country and start a war with no consequences, it was funny to watch the country dig itself a deeper and deeper hole at first, now it's just kinda sad and pathetic.

Oi, Canadians, go burn down the White House again, yeah?

 

[Darth Angelo]

I always get get lost in thoeries and facts when I look into this regarding cold war mentality, actions of the Japanese prior to Pearl Harbour. This was far from a simple case of "you hit me ill hit you harder"

But regardless of any of that it is heartbreaking to think that so many harmless people going about their everyday lives suffered and died. It was supposedly a way of ending the war early and ironicly saving the lives of tens of thousands of soldiers on both sides but I am sorry a soldier is ready to fight and die for his country. Allowing tens of thousands of soldiers to die is more justified than obliterating tens of thousands of innocents.
But I never really looked deep enough into it. Theres just too much info and speculation to wade through and without it it's difficult to not come across as either an angry anti-american or a tunnel minded patriot.

 

[Meg]

I've always taken tremendous issue with America's gung-ho attitude towards just about everything, war in particular.
The country as a whole considers itself to be the "big dog" of the world, when really it's just the youngest brat with the biggest toys.

Hiroshima always sickened me, I wanted to believe for the longest time that it was a last resort counter-measure to some inevitable stalemate, but the more I talk about it, the more I see it as America just using Japan as a convenient testing ground for their new weapon.

To be fair, America's in a pretty sad state at the moment, they haven't won a real war against a proper enemy since WWII and ever since then, their government has been sending it into pointless, greed fueled wars in order to re-establish the sense of heroism that came with the victory in WWII. (Even though we did most of the work, they came in at the last minute.)

Now, don't get me wrong, I don't hate Americans, I hate America. The country as an entity, the government, not the citizens.
I've always been loathe of the fact that they believe they can just waltz into any country and start a war with no consequences, it was funny to watch the country dig itself a deeper and deeper hole at first, now it's just kinda sad and pathetic.

Oi, Canadians, go burn down the White House again, yeah?

Here here! American gov sucks. American people...well suck, but SOME of us are cool. XD

 

[DreadnoughtDT]

I'm American, and I believe the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki were little more than tests. Which is cruel and morally wrong to do, considering they were innocent civilians. Nowadays, massacring civilians like that accounts to first degree murder. There was no justification, just plain cruelty.

I'll say it right now. I hate the US.

About that mosque in NY... I say go for it. Muslims aren't all bad, as small-minded people like to think.

 

[aka958]

I always get get lost in thoeries and facts when I look into this regarding cold war mentality, actions of the Japanese prior to Pearl Harbour. This was far from a simple case of "you hit me ill hit you harder"

But regardless of any of that it is heartbreaking to think that so many harmless people going about their everyday lives suffered and died. It was supposedly a way of ending the war early and ironicly saving the lives of tens of thousands of soldiers on both sides but I am sorry a soldier is ready to fight and die for his country. Allowing tens of thousands of soldiers to die is more justified than obliterating tens of thousands of innocents.
But I never really looked deep enough into it. Theres just too much info and speculation to wade through and without it it's difficult to not come across as either an angry anti-american or a tunnel minded patriot.

Change tens of thousands innocents to hundreds of thousands and you are on the right path.

 

[Meg]

Now now, let's not all blame America other countries have had some bad things in their history to. Like England raising the tax on sugar. HOW DARE THEY! :lol: