How did this not make it into the game?

[The Final Offer]

Now that we're on this.

Imagine how many demons are hunting Dante down for completely obliterating their cover?

 

[TWOxACROSS]

First of all, not all the bosses have to be preplanned targets of the order, just demons of great power that get in their way. Not knowing what's coming next makes for great surprises in a story or game.

Well sure, but given that the narrative of DmC is inexorably about the Order finding Dante and then systematically wiping out Mundus' support structure, it's difficult to throw in something that doesn't fit with that narrative.

The Bruiser was a great idea, but there are plenty of ideas in many things that end up not fitting well with the story being told, and in this case, he could have worked out as the boss of the nightclub (as I've said!) but then that detracts from what Lilith's part in the entire story was, and makes it more difficult to paint her the same way we see her in DmC.

 

[Tiran]

Now that we're on this.

Imagine how many demons are hunting Dante down for completely obliterating their cover?

Duh,Duh,Duuuuuuun


DmC2: Dark slayers' revenge

Well sure, but given that the narrative of DmC is inexorably about the Order finding Dante and then systematically wiping out Mundus' support structure, it's difficult to throw in something that doesn't fit with that narrative.

The Bruiser was a great idea, but there are plenty of ideas in many things that end up not fitting well with the story being told, and in this case, he could have worked out as the boss of the nightclub (as I've said!) but then that detracts from what Lilith's part in the entire story was, and makes it more difficult to paint her the same way we see her in DmC.

It doesn't interrupt the narrative at all. Just because it's a boss that wasn't foreseen doesn't mean it wouldn't work. I mean, who says that Mundus' elite guard at the entrance to his building could not have been this guy. There's nothing that says anything couldn't happen out there and no rule that said that all the boss characters would be the targets they planned at the start plus Mundus. Any super strong enemy in a game is a boss and seeing how enemies were just popping out of nowhere they could've slipped one in anywhere like agni and Rudra or the gigapede or even Beowulf. None of these characters were on Dante's to do list, he had a clear goal, they were just characters' he met and had disagreements with along the way to his goal. The way this story was told wasn't the only way (or possibly even the best way) to tell it.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

It doesn't interrupt the narrative at all. Just because it's a boss that wasn't foreseen doesn't mean it wouldn't work. I mean, who says that Mundus' elite guard at the entrance to his building could not have been this guy.

That makes him a completely out-of-place character, simply shoved in somewhere because "you want him to be". Look at his design. He was meant to be fought in his element - an arena, at a title bout. If they wanted to make him important to the narrative, he could be behind some fixed gambling scheme that steals souls from people and generates illegal income for Mundus, but even then, it doesn't make him nearly as important as stopping Virility and Barbas' prison.

His overall concept doesn't make him a character of much import. Sure they could have done something to implement him, but it would require significant change to the overall narrative in order to do his concept justice - and changing the narrative to justify one smaller bits existence is just a terrible thing to do.

There's nothing that says anything couldn't happen out there and no rule that said that all the boss characters would be the targets they planned at the start plus Mundus.

Of course, but bosses are primarily supposed to be significant characters in this game. They are the targets in the narrative. They are taking out the support Mundus has in place, and it's not a lack of imagination that saw the Bruiser cut, it's that his concept, while awesome, just does not fit with the narrative they created.

Any super strong enemy in a game is a boss and seeing how enemies were just popping out of nowhere they could've slipped one in anywhere like agni and Rudra or the gigapede or even Beowulf. None of these characters were on Dante's to do list, he had a clear goal, they were just characters' he met and had disagreements with along the way to his goal. The way this story was told wasn't the only way (or possibly even the best way) to tell it.

The problem is that the encounters in DMC3 were all based on the premise that Dante was in a f#cking demon tower infested with demons. They were guardians and things that solely existed for impeding an explorer's progress.

DmC is about surreptitiously taking down a tyrant in power, and they do so by taking out his support structures first, the Bruiser just doesn't fit into it well enough to work in a way that wouldn't fall completely flat, or be incredibly short-lived. Would you have rather had a sh!tty half-working Bruiser encounter?

 

[berto]

Anyway, as for bosses that I'd cut... Drecavac was just an over hyped dreamrunner with a bigger life bar.

Drecavac is a dreamrunner with different skin and a slightly changed coding, you remove one you'd remove both. You gatta think more an entire enemy, or boss, off the roister to make space for this one, which is why I'm assuming it didn't make it, time and money.

 

[Tiran]

Well sure, but given that the narrative of DmC is inexorably about the Order finding Dante and then systematically wiping out Mundus' support structure, it's difficult to throw in something that doesn't fit with that narrative.

The Bruiser was a great idea, but there are plenty of ideas in many things that end up not fitting well with the story being told, and in this case, he could have worked out as the boss of the nightclub (as I've said!) but then that detracts from what Lilith's part in the entire story was, and makes it more difficult to paint her the same way we see her in DmC.

That makes him a completely out-of-place character, simply shoved in somewhere because "you want him to be". Look at his design. He was meant to be fought in his element - an arena, at a title bout. If they wanted to make him important to the narrative, he could be behind some fixed gambling scheme that steals souls from people and generates illegal income for Mundus, but even then, it doesn't make him nearly as important as stopping Virility and Barbas' prison.

His overall concept doesn't make him a character of much import. Sure they could have done something to implement him, but it would require significant change to the overall narrative in order to do his concept justice - and changing the narrative to justify one smaller bits existence is just a terrible thing to do.



Of course, but bosses are primarily supposed to be significant characters in this game. They are the targets in the narrative. They are taking out the support Mundus has in place, and it's not a lack of imagination that saw the Bruiser cut, it's that his concept, while awesome, just does not fit with the narrative they created.



The problem is that the encounters in DMC3 were all based on the premise that Dante was in a f#cking demon tower infested with demons. They were guardians and things that solely existed for impeding an explorer's progress.

DmC is about surreptitiously taking down a tyrant in power, and they do so by taking out his support structures first, the Bruiser just doesn't fit into it well enough to work in a way that wouldn't fall completely flat, or be incredibly short-lived. Would you have rather had a sh!tty half-working Bruiser encounter?

YES!!!! The piont is, all the encounters are ****ty and half working if you judge them by the rules that:

1. All bosses must be important characters within the narrative

2. All bosses must be predetermined or previously referenced before their arrival into the storyline

3. The story can't take drastic turns as new elements are added

This is a tenant of dynamic story-telling. The more unpredictable the events, the more you can be surprised. Did the sudden Hercules boss fight in God of war make that games' narrative worse, even though Kratos's goal was to kill Zeus? No. The Brute is just another crazy character. He doesn't have to be a heavy weight champ or even a fully fleshed out character, the point I'm trying to make is That kind of guy would be fun to fight in a game where you fight fun enemies. He doesn't even need a reason or story intro beyond his appearance in the area you fight him. He'd just show up anywhere that the game allows to impede your progress and you'd fight. Just like every other monster in the game.

There lies the weakness in game storytelling: Gameplay being slave to inflexible narrative when it should be the other way around. Ninja theory not finding a way to include situationaly appropriate taunts in the game where possible is sign of this.

Drecavac is a dreamrunner with different skin and a slightly changed coding, you remove one you'd remove both. You gatta think more an entire enemy, or boss, off the roister to make space for this one, which is why I'm assuming it didn't make it, time and money.

'm guessing that's why we got the copy-paste Drekavac instead of a real boss character like the brute. Must have been time constraints.

 

[Chancey289]

It's said that they drew from the Fight Club idea.

Fight Club is one of my favorite movies of all time.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

This is a tenant of dynamic story-telling. The more unpredictable the events, the more you can be surprised. Did the sudden Hercules boss fight in God of war make that games' narrative worse, even though Kratos's goal was to kill Zeus?

That's rather different, considering that Kratos' overall journey was very broad and he was just sort of forging ahead against whatever came his way. It's the same with DMC3's story - Dante's goal was very broad and a lot of what he encountered was just whatever was in the tower.

DmC's story is way more focused, with specific points that the characters aimed to hit. Even then, sh!t still hit the fan in DmC when (unpredictably) the Order's HQ got raided, and then they went to go kidnap Lilith in exchange for Kat, which invariably gave them the information to get into Silver Sacks Towers. Even before that Dante managed to find Phineas in the prison, who divulged a lot of great information, some of which actually helped them save Kat.

The Brute is just another crazy character. He doesn't have to be a heavy weight champ or even a fully fleshed out character, the point I'm trying to make is That kind of guy would be fun to fight in a game where you fight fun enemies. He doesn't even need a reason or story intro beyond his appearance in the area you fight him. He'd just show up anywhere that the game allows to impede your progress and you'd fight. Just like every other monster in the game.

The problem is that you like the concept of this character because he has a background. He's a very unique character, too unique to just be a mook you fight repeatedly like stygians and the dreamrunners. Plus, you made up this whole backstory for his encounter (as a boss), so I was commenting on the idea that you wished he could have been some big important character, and he just wouldn't have fit with the narrative they had. If it was a more open trek into places unknown, then yeah, but not with the focused narrative DmC has.

There lies the weakness in game storytelling: Gameplay being slave to inflexible narrative when it should be the other way around. Ninja theory not finding a way to include situationaly appropriate taunts in the game where possible is sign of this.

Really depends on the game being made, and DmC was about making a game with a worthwhile narrative that the gameplay followed. It's not inherently bad, just...different.

Taunts was a silly removal, considering they had scripted chatter anyway :/

I'm guessing that's why we got the copy-paste Drekavac instead of a real boss character like the brute. Must have been time constraints.

You're really sort of both selling the Drekavac short and putting more emphasis on him than he has. He's supposed to be a high-level mook that poses much more of a threat to Dante, but he's also not supposed to be some fancy unique and important character like what you'd want the Brute to be.

 

[Tiran]

That's rather different, considering that Kratos' overall journey was very broad and he was just sort of forging ahead against whatever came his way. It's the same with DMC3's story - Dante's goal was very broad and a lot of what he encountered was just whatever was in the tower.

DmC's story is way more focused, with specific points that the characters aimed to hit. Even then, sh!t still hit the fan in DmC when (unpredictably) the Order's HQ got raided, and then they went to go kidnap Lilith in exchange for Kat, which invariably gave them the information to get into Silver Sacks Towers. Even before that Dante managed to find Phineas in the prison, who divulged a lot of great information, some of which actually helped them save Kat.



The problem is that you like the concept of this character because he has a background. He's a very unique character, too unique to just be a mook you fight repeatedly like stygians and the dreamrunners. Plus, you made up this whole backstory for his encounter (as a boss), so I was commenting on the idea that you wished he could have been some big important character, and he just wouldn't have fit with the narrative they had. If it was a more open trek into places unknown, then yeah, but not with the focused narrative DmC has.



Really depends on the game being made, and DmC was about making a game with a worthwhile narrative that the gameplay followed. It's not inherently bad, just...different.

Taunts was a silly removal, considering they had scripted chatter anyway :/



You're really sort of both selling the Drekavac short and putting more emphasis on him than he has. He's supposed to be a high-level mook that poses much more of a threat to Dante, but he's also not supposed to be some fancy unique and important character like what you'd want the Brute to be.

I don't think I'm making the brute that important, just a character that enters the story as a hired goon to stop the demon killer. I don't think the addition of this character would up-end the story. He would be a minor addition, really. You'd walk into a room in the tower and engage in a boss battle after a minute of boss chat. You'd fight, then you'd move on. Regardless of how the character is fleshed out, I would've liked an enemy like him.

 

[The Final Offer]

Funny VERY funny conversation between 2x and Tiran because, it really brings out Mundus's inability to flex his "desperation" tactics.

If Mundus really gave a spit about his heir he would've hired someone to protect him. It would've definitely fit into the narrative to have the importance of Lilith be emphasized in that club. If she's laying with the King of Demons, you'd think she'd be protected 10x better than she was. Seriously Mundus? All that power, all that demon credit, and you chose this order "Shield my seed with lesser demons!?" for your master defense!? If this Brute existed for that purpose then I would be able to take Mundus's "superiority" complex more seriously.

So for that, Mundus eats his own words. "Too big for your f***ing boots."

YOU'RE SITTING NEXT TO THE HELLGATE! Wtf man!?

 

[MigsRZXAStylish]

Wow is all I can say on the concept.

Maybe this would have been like the boss Dante has to beat in order to get Eryx. But instead, it was on Poison...