Has Devil May Cry spoiled you?

[Chancey289]

Like the topic says, has this franchise spoiled you when it comes to combat in games? I know I sometimes find it hard to get in to certain kind of games because the combat just isn't as fast paced or fun as things like Devil My Cry.

What about you?

Discuss.

 

[Foxtrot94]

If you mean spoiled when it comes to games IN GENERAL, I don't think so. I'm still able to contextualize a game's combat system into the genre that game belongs to. I'm not gonna compare Witcher 3's combat to DMC4's for example, it doesn't make sense.

When it comes to HnSs, well... I guess so. For example, when I first played MGR, yeah I had fun overall, but I did feel its combat couldn't hold a candle to DMC's.

The thing is... DMC's combat is just that well designed. It's full of good concepts and ideas, especially how much it borrows from fighting games, while still contextualizing those elements into the HnS genre.

 

[Lain]

Not really, I know that Dmc does it's own thing and I would never judge a game by another's standards unless they are in the same series.

For example, metal gear and splinter cell. Both stealth games but different and I enjoy that variety in gaming.

 

[Foxtrot94]

Not really, I know that Dmc does it's own thing and I would never judge a game by another's standards unless they are in the same series.

I disagree with that. If a developer sets a standard in a genre, whatever it is, it's only good and desirable that the rest of the industry aims to at least match it and possibly set the bar higher.

I got the feel you didn't actually mean "standard" (as that term implies quality), but rather "style", when you talked about variety.

 

[Lain]

@Foxtrot94
I don't quite follow, could you give an example please?

And by the by, standard doesn't mean quality, as terms like "high standards" would be redundant.

 

[absolitude]

yes it has, that's why i'm ****ed if the series won't continue

 

[Foxtrot94]

@Foxtrot94
I don't quite follow, could you give an example please?

And by the by, standard doesn't mean quality, as terms like "high standards" would be redundant.

For example, back in the day when COD4 came out, that game made popular the whole XP gain in multiplayer thing, which provided a deeper online experience in FPSs, and that so many games later borrowed.

It's not redundant. Quality is not inherently high in itself. It can be high or low, or anywhere in between.
Therefore, standards can be low or high as well.

And I didn't say standard = quality, I said it's a term which implies the concept of quality. While you were talking variety in how a game executes a mechanic/type of gameplay, that's why I think "style" is more appropriate term to use.

 

[ef9dante_oSsshea]

Yes it and ninja gaiden color my view on hall hack and slash by comparison, but I love DMC so I don't care lol

 

[Director Bison]

i wouldn't really say so
i try to judge each game i play an a separate entity
unless its part of a series i only compare it to other games if it has huge things missing
like if a hack and slash didn't have some form of parry or counter attack those are some major points off

and even if it is apart of a series and i feel it is inferior to a previous entry
i still try to find why that is and if it still did any thing right

like how smooth DmC's combat flow is or the Steel On Bone Combo kills from Ninja Gaiden 3 Razors Edge

almost every game does at least one thing right

 

[Absent Nova]

Kinda. I tend to see how a game's combat compares to DMC

 

[DragonMaster2010]

Yes and no.
Yes because when I play HnS games, I always try to mix different combos and attacks as stylish as I can.
No because I can still enjoy other HnS games. For example, Killer is Dead, Lollipop Chainsaw, and Bayonetta.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

Most definitely. To me, DMC (more specifically DmC) is the bar to meet for action games; the fluidity, freedom, and finesse are pretty much a must if a game tries to sell me on its epic action. Granted, it's not necessary that an action game meet that bar for me, but it sure as Hell will probably make it better.

 

[berto]

No. I still enjoy games with lesser combat, like Lollipop Chainsaw, and don't get hung up on the combat not been as good as DMC's and there are other things that make games enjoyable besides refined combat. It feels like I would be turning into some kind of elitist if I went around bitching about how the combat is not as good as the game I like. Besides, if any game spoiled me to others having lesser combat it would be Bayonetta.

 

[Stylish Nero]

Nope. Well sort of...not really. Maybe.

As long as the combat works with the flow of the game and doesn't have any issues like odd controls for basic **** (MGR), poor camera (MGR), bullshit gameplay design (MGR), and doesn't feel awkward playing it (MGR) as well as uncustomizable controls (MGR) then sure.

Plus I think the Devil May Cry series didn't really set the bar all that high to begin with (the Hack and Slash genre is a vastly overlooked and unappreciated genre so not many devs are trying to really surpass and exceed the limitations of what the genre is capable of). Each game in the series have all been good to great games but each game lacked something that another had game that made it great too so if we combine all the best aspects of all the games (the creativity, challenge, and atmosphere of DMC1, the pakour and openness of DMC2, the stylishness and customization of DMC3, the complexity and depth of DMC4, and the accessibility and streamline of DmC) we'll have a truly amazing hack and slash game.

Plus Bayonetta and Bayonetta 2 is truly the HnS game that set the boundaries for other HnS games. Plus I think Hack and Slash games need to break out of the button mashing mindset or spastastic combo madness its stuck in and have more thought and creativity put into them like fighting games. How awesome it would be to have an action game like DMC that incorporates more aspects of fighters into them like counters, grapples/throws/grapple combos, an actual parry system (although MGR was the closest), specials/super moves, tag-team/support, low, high, and medium attacks, using the environment for maneuverability and other combat purposes (like DOA5 or MKX), physics, and super flexible enemy AI.

 

[Foxtrot94]

Plus I think the Devil May Cry series didn't really set the bar all that high to begin with. Each game in the series have all been good to great games but each game lacked something that another had game that made it great too so if we combine all the best aspects of all the games (the creativity, challenge, and atmosphere of DMC1, the pakour and openness of DMC2, the stylishness and customization of DMC3, the complexity and depth of DMC4, and the accessibility and streamline of DmC) we'll have a truly amazing hack and slash game.

In terms of combat, of course it did. Ever since the first game.

Besides, some of those elements you mentioned, like the atmosphere of DMC1 or the openness of DMC2 are irrelevant to the topic cause the thread is about combat.

Plus, DMC already has elements borrowed from fighting games, DMC4 above all. Itsuno himself admitted that what he learned from fighting games was helpful in developing DMC's combat. However I'm not sure if making the combat system JUST like the one of a fighter would be a good idea.

Also, remember that Kamiya studied DMC4's system to create Bayonetta's. That's literally the indication of how DMC set the standards for HnS's combat.

 

[Stylish Nero]

In terms of combat, of course it did. Ever since the first game.

Besides, some of those elements you mentioned, like the atmosphere of DMC1 or the openness of DMC2 are irrelevant to the topic cause the thread is about combat.

Plus, DMC already has elements borrowed from fighting games, DMC4 above all. Itsuno himself admitted that what he learned from fighting games was helpful in developing DMC's combat. However I'm not sure if making the combat system JUST like the one of a fighter would be a good idea.

I added atmosphere as a bonus but openness of environment can matter. Having more space and the ability to traverse all the space (like jumping from building to building or easily going from interior to exterior and vice versa can be applied to combat like going to higher ground to gain an altitude advantage or knocking an enemy across town like in a superhero movie/anime. DMC3 had this too but to a more limited sense. One thing I noticed in DMC3 that I never noticed in DMC4/DmC is that some enemies that got blasted into walls actually impacted the wall and slid off the wall allowing for interesting combo follow ups ala 3D Fighters. Plus having more open space allow for the usage of various environmental props and obstacles mid battle. Not really more space in combat but more freedom to use the space and all its contents rather than just being shafted into a large basically an empty circle/square

While true due to DMC4's rushed dev time these elements weren't broaded to the best of their abilities such as Nero's Buster mechanic is extremely standard. Press 1 button to play out an enemy specific grapple animation whereas instead of allowing for variety of inputs using the Buster Button (like DOA) to allow the player to pull off a variety of grapples on any (or most) enemies for varying results and combo potential like being able to slam dunk, pile drive, slam around, spin, and toss around any enemy rather than only being able to pile drive Angelos, only being able to slam around Assaults, and only being able to pulverize Blitzs.

 

[absolitude]

the beauty of the dmc series isn't limited to just combat, the characters are awesome, the characters' names are awesome, the theme it brought is awesome, the variety of weapons and movements are awesome, the visuals are awesome, there's just so many awesome there for my taste and i haven't found any series that could outmatch that, well the LoS series were near that..