ROCKMAN X
Keyser Söze
DA FAQU ?? how can someone even "Like" this character let alone being a fangirl ?? O_O
And the saddest part is the part when people actually buy her
Evil Character Appologists
- Thread starter TerrorA
- Start date
Loopy
Devil hunter in training
Some people buy out of morbid curiosity, others because they want to get on the hype train, then there are others who buy it to see how bad it is and laugh at it.
Shin Muramasa
Metallic Stranger
Multiple meanings when referring to "lemons". For one, villains tend to be sour. They're not usually likable in any case. Sometimes we get their backstories and that's like adding sugar to lemon juice, therefore creating lemonade; adding "pink" will make pink lemonade. Speaking of which, what the hell makes pink lemonade: pink? Anyway, I digress. Some villains have physical, mental, and emotional traits that automatically adds sugar to them. Charismatic villains, anyone? Their words will twist, pull, and seduce you every which way.
Some people just like lemons I guess which seems weird; eating fresh lemons. Yeah, I just enjoy reading about a character who basically goes on psychopathic, murderous, mind-screwing, horrific, life-scarring, gory, visceral, cringe-worthy journeys that makes the Nine Circles of Hell seem like paradise. Man, I can't wait to read about the part where he rips a woman's toenails and fingernails, cuts off her pinkies and cauterizes her stumps, force-feeds her raw fish guts with Tabasco sauce, murders countless frogs in front of her while playing Nickelback's albums on loop, and then lights three houses on fire, including hers, and gives her a rusty piece of shrapnel for her to escape. Yes, that makes my world spin. Oh, what a satisfying, amazing, well-written, and complex villain.
The other lemon, well, anyone involved with fanfiction might know what that means.
Anyway, some "evil" characters are more antagonists than evil villains. Some are just another part of the heroes' lives. Bowser for an example, began as the evil Koopa king who kidnaps Princess Peach so he can make her his queen. Well, as years pass, Bowser became more comic relief, anti-hero, and an antagonist to Mario, Luigi, and pretty much the rest of the Super Mario world. Bowser at this point resembles the cheesy villain from light-hearted cartoons. I don't think he pillages and burns villages, but I do know that he comes up with ridiculous schemes, buildings, and remarks. So, it's sort of an (de)evolution from being evil bad-guy to comic relief, sometimes bad-guy.
Other characters like The Joker went from light-hearted, though psychopathic, antagonist to a crazed, sinister, cunning, psychopathic, attention-craving, creepy monster. It's implied that he manipulates (or drives insane) Harley Quinn which ends with her becoming devoted and hopelessly in love with a monster. Joker isn't someone who should be forgiven for anything he has done especially to Jason Todd, despite turning Todd into a badass. He's just out there to get his chaotic, bloody fix and trying to drive Batman over his moral lines.
Dr. Freeze is more of a protagonist on the wrong side of the law. He loves his wife dearly, but could not find the cure at the time causing him to freeze her so he can keep her "alive" until he finds the cure. This results in an accident that makes him Dr. Freeze. Without funding, Dr. Freeze commits crimes in the name of love. This sort of antagonist can be forgiven since he's more of a victim of circumstances. Y'know, I wonder what would happen if Batman somehow convinced Dr. Freeze to join his side and somehow both found a cure for Dr. Freeze's wife - c'mon, we have two incredibly talented, intelligent people, they can probably figure out the cure and y'know what they say: "two heads are better than one". Well, I think it's implied that the years of crime, fear, feeling hopeless, and being in despair probably did a number of Dr. Freeze's sanity. Still, he's not someone who goes around and tortures people for the hell of it.
I guess there's a spectrum of antagonism. Rivals, comic relief, cold-blooded monsters, tragic antagonists, etc. It's just that when crazies are given excuses that it just seems off. They're crazy, bloodthirsty murderers! Why are you justifying them? Oh well, since there is a spectrum of protagonists too. Realists, idealists, stubborn "heroes" who think everything they do benefits everyone, tragic protagonists, anti-heroes, the reluctant, etc. Sometimes justifying the "hero" who murders innocents because they happened to be living in hell, spreading his beliefs and rejecting others, and taking all the glory will seem off too.
ROCKMAN X
Keyser Söze
Yeah but sugar can only get you so far some lemons are just sour no matter how much sugar you add just like that there's a limit for everything... the time you're close to liking a character who seemingly resembles Hitler you're just not right in the head.
As you said there are shallow villains and there are villains just there for main character's backstory/character development(which is the case with vergil i believe) and there are villains who're just so repulsive&immoral that you can hardly say that Yeah i totally am a fan of this character !
V
Oldschool DMC fan
In that sense it's just like real life. People making excuses for dodgy crap all over the place! You can't tell who's really good, or bad, or what! Like this Assad thing lately. Assad's bad, we're told. But the rebels are just as bad, or maybe worse... 'cause they got one dude leading them who eats human flesh. And America wants to flatten the place to 'help out'. And Britain bleats on about warmongering tyrants but it sells and has sold weapons to just about anyone. And Russia sold them the chem weapons but claims it we should drop the whole thing if they just give them back, even though they, like, y'know, already murdered thousands of people with guns and not chemical weapons. Because it's okay if you do it with guns, it doesn't cross some kinda line.
No wonder people are making apologies for villains. Real life is doing it constantly.
No wonder people are making apologies for villains. Real life is doing it constantly.
Vergil'sBitch
I am Nero's Mom & Obsessed fan girl
REALLY?! I've not heard that...
Just shows that governments are run by idiots and hypocrites... dangerous idiots and hypocrites...
V
Oldschool DMC fan
Yeah, there's a video of him cutting out a part of a dead guy's heart of lung or something (of an enemy soldier) and eating it on the internet.
Rebels are supposed to be linked to "Al-Qaeda" as well so why are we wanting to help them again, exactly...?
My point is, real life ain't so clear cut as in games and animes. There are villains everywhere, and also people who allow them to continue being 'evil', if you believe in that sort of thing.
Rebels are supposed to be linked to "Al-Qaeda" as well so why are we wanting to help them again, exactly...?
My point is, real life ain't so clear cut as in games and animes. There are villains everywhere, and also people who allow them to continue being 'evil', if you believe in that sort of thing.
Loopy
Devil hunter in training
Yep, dangerous morons who are leading the regular people who have no say in any of this into danger and death just to serve their own financial interests. You just can't believe anyone with power these days. :/ They all say they are different, but they say the same thing in a different way to the last person and they are only interested in how they can profit. Either that or they are liars and fraudsters.
It's a shame people like this represent a country and then give the people of that country a bad name, ruin the country financially or any number of other terrible things.
Vergil'sBitch
I am Nero's Mom & Obsessed fan girl
:blink:... ****!
Well, that's what I always think when I hear that on the news... (it was a pretty big 'wtf moment' when I first heard it).
Exactly
I don't think anyone has been able to believe someone with power for years.
The best thing is about this whole thing is that the UK government can see its own people on the 'breadline' yet worry about other things happening in other countries. (If that makes sense)
Loopy
Devil hunter in training
I know. If they carry on ignoring people who need help in their own country then we're going to see a very drastic change in society and not for the better. :/
Now I'll be more on topic with this question:
I'm wondering, is there a really evil character that no one could make an excuse for? There's got to be a character that has done things so nasty and disgusting that no one can excuse what they have done.
Vergil'sBitch
I am Nero's Mom & Obsessed fan girl
Wesker? He is the only truly evil character that I can think of.
Loopy
Devil hunter in training
I don't think I've ever heard anyone excuse what Mundus did either...then again he didn't really do much.
But I have heard people excuse Sephiroth, Seymour, Caius...basically nearly all of the Final Fantasy villains...even Kefka, and that guy was a lunatic genocidal clown who destroyed the world. :blink:How can that be excused?!
Shin Muramasa
Metallic Stranger
I don't think I've ever heard anyone excuse what Mundus did either...then again he didn't really do much.
But I have heard people excuse Sephiroth, Seymour, Caius...basically nearly all of the Final Fantasy villains...even Kefka, and that guy was a lunatic genocidal clown who destroyed the world. :blink:How can that be excused?!
Out of the four, I would only say that Caius could be excused since he had no control over what happened to him. Sephiroth was created by a mad scientist so there could be the perfect being. Even though Sephiroth had people who loved and admired him, Sephiroth still ended up turning his wing against the world. His own mother probably loved him dearly despite how he was created and maybe even Vincent who technically could have ended up as Seph's adopted father. Then again, Sephiroth's not totally human so that probably factored in to his insanity; how would you feel if it turns out you're an artificial human? Also Hojo lied to him constantly about his Jenova being his mother, when in fact she wasn't. I think Final Fantasy VII and X sort of targeted the whole "race" issue, but Final Fantasy X made it more apparent. Still, Sephiroth was lucky compared to Seymour since Seph had friends and family while Seymour only had his mother. Why would you turn your back on everything when you had everything to begin with? Seph's friends would probably understand him and not treat him like some monster, but Sephiroth snapped and went on a planet-killing spree.
Seymour, well, only his mother loved him since apparently Guado and humans can't deal with each other. His mother sacrificed herself to protect him. I guess she was trying to teach him that lives are much more valuable in spite of how people judge others. Nope, the idiot goes on thinking that he should kill everything so the world would no longer suffer. So, he basically sacrifices his humanity to be the savior of the world - hmm, I wonder what other games did this? - and manipulates everyone he meets. Sure, he get's that one excuse of being hated by pretty much everyone, but really? Kill everything after the only loved one in his life wanted to protect and possibly teach him something? Y'know, he could have become some kind of diplomat and try to improve racial relations. Come to think of it, he's the antithesis of Braska and Yuna. Braska, like his father chose to marry someone "unacceptable", but loved her and stayed with her despite everything. Unlike Seymour's father, Braska tried to remain with his child and in a way taught her to love others; Seymour's father sort of left him to save face. Braska then went on a journey with a drunkard, Jecht, and a disgraced monk, Auron, in a way to teach others that it's the person that counts not the status. Yuna, well, she's the pure maiden out to save the world, until Final Fantasy X-2 happened.
Caius is more of the case of gods and goddesses screwing you over. He was a loyal servant to his Yeul and to protect her, sacrificed himself by becoming Bahamut. He doesn't die. No, instead, he receives the gift of eternal life and insanity. Then Final Fantasy XIII happened where in the end, the main cast were supposed to die or become crystallized. Etro saves them which changes the future so much that many Yeuls die which causes Caius to go over the brink even more since he's seeing so many innocent lives dying young. If Etro never gave him her heart, Caius would have been dead and maybe happy he save Yeul. If Etro never saved the party of FFXIII, then Caius probably would have stayed bored, tired, and moreso sane than he is. Basically, it's all Etro's fault.
Every villain in Final Fantasy XII are a bunch of crackpots. Really, just listen to Cid ramble on about taking back "man's history" or whatever. Final Fantasy I had Garland who basically was a knight turned into a demon. So, not much there since he's basically an evil demon there. Exdeath, well, he's a tree-thingie with void powers.
V
Oldschool DMC fan
Well Mundus is sort of like Satan, right? Just under another name, so as not to seem like a videogame was really trivializing a religion or whatever. All the hallmarks of stuff being lifted from Christianity are in there anyways. But I can make a pretty big excuse for Satan: he was probably an idiot for challenging God in the first place, so maybe he wasn't all that bright. As one of the higher angels, I sort of figure he ought to have known that God really was going to kick his ass if he tried anything, because God made everything, even him, and he can therefore more than likely unmake everything as well, just as fast. But Satan did cause a war in Heaven, so he got that far... and maybe he naively believed he could actually defeat God. Until God sent his burning ass tumbling into Hell of course.
But then, what God does, rather than just disintegrating this guy for trying to take over Heaven is he allows him to continue existing in Hell. In fact, he even allows Satan to rule over hell, or something similar, and he allows Satan to have influence over human beings - for test purposes, I guess. Satan has this "job" to do, which is tempting human beings to do bad things, given to him by God. Or at least allowed to by God. He's still God's errand boy of sorts... so he's doing the will of God too, in a roundabout way. I can't blame him for that, any more than I could blame him for being created imperfect by God himself. I could blame him for being kind of stupid in attacking God... but I could also blame human beings for being stupid eating that apple and getting us all kicked out of Eden. Angels and humans are God's creations, so they're apparently sort of like children. And children do stupid things. But we don't generally blame them for doing dumb stuff because they haven't become smart yet. Which is why I have a problem with God punishing people and all for eating one apple, when they obviously didn't know anything anyway because they were 'completely innocent' (i.e. kind of stupid or with no sense of responsibility) at that time. But that's another debate.
So, if we can make an excuse for Satan, in that he's kind of dumb (because he thinks he can defeat God... or maybe he thinks he can take over the Earth even when there's already a prophecy that he can only take over for a short time because eventually God WILL come down and throw him into the Lake of Fire). That IS kind of stupid, but if he's fated to lose and burn horribly for eternity, I guess you can't blame the guy for wanting to wreak a little havoc first. And apparently Satan is all angsty about his old defeat because he really wants to ruin God's pet project - humans. So the guy's a bit of a hothead. I can understand that too. Or if he is really being employed by God, for now, then it's not his fault if his job happens to be tricking people into doing evil stuff. It's what he's supposed to do.
As a character, Satan just seems like kind of an idiot to me in some ways. In other ways he's like this tragic favorite son figure who tries to get power and gets put in his place and eats sour grapes ever after, and sucks be to him because ultimately he burns forever for making a stupid mistake. And in other ways, maybe he's like... actually just enjoying his time because he just loves doing evil stuff? I dunno. In any case, does Satan really do evil stuff himself? Like does he personally torture souls in hell for kicks? Or does he have like flunkies to do it for him while he sits back with a beer? I get the impression Satan is just a tempter. HE doesn't do evil stuff, he just gets people to do it so he can take their soul later. If he does personally enjoy torturing people for nothing I can't much sympathise with him, but I think that's the point of the character. He's just written in the Bible as an adversary, and we're not meant to understand him. He's just there, doing evil stuff, because that's apparently his thing, that God lets him do.
Now I don't think Mundus himself operates exactly like Satan, but he's got some qualities of Satan and he was clearly ripped off of Satan and modelled on a Greek God and also an angel, assumedly so that we get the impression he's like this powerful, proud, ancient angelic-like being. And I think he has more in common with an angel than a demon when we first see him. The popular picture of a demon people have with the pointy tail and the wings and all that is probably not how Satan would look at all, since he was an angel once, and since he has the power to trick people, he probably doesn't look like a terrifying, disgusting monster. He'd probably choose to look handsome, impressive, or even endearing (like that little kid in those Omen movies), because that stuff wins people over more easily than terrifying monsters do. Mundus is doing this by appearing as a statue. He looks like a big, strong, wise god or something in two of his three incarnations in the game (excluding DmC which I will not mention because I don't like that interpretation), physically intimidating because of his size, but otherwise the sort of thing humans would drop to their knees and worship. Makes all that business of making humans serve him much easier I guess. Okay, so later he reveals he's actually a gross thing made of hands and eyeballs, but I think he could probably look like anything he wants. When his "look at me, I'm so impressive and god-like" act fails with the statue, he probably tries appearing like a giant orange booger to make Dante crap his pants.
But you can establish from all this that (classic) Mundus is proud, got kinda jilted by Sparda, and really really really wants to rule over humans, and he hates Sparda and all Sparda's kids because Sparda inconvenienced him for quite a while and then buggered off to rule the human world himself. So is this guy unapologetically evil? Well no, because I can actually understand some of these motivations. Some humans have similar motivations. It's a very human thing to desire power, you don't have to be some kind of genocidal demi-god to do it. People like exerting power over each other all the time, even if it's really subtle, like knowing more facts than your other nerdy friend does, and telling him so via the internet to "put him in his place". It's also not unusual for humans to dislike people who screw them over - betray them - as Sparda did to Mundus. I can totally understand Mundus wanting revenge on Sparda, and I can understand him wanting revenge on Dante if Dante thinks he's gonna do exactly the same thing as his father did and slaughter all my minions and creepy wooden puppets that I spent ages making.
He's proud too. But most of us are proud of something. Our views, our kids, our heritage... whatever it might be. So it's not crazy for him to be proud of somehow getting to be the Emperor of the whole entire Underworld. I'd be proud of that achievement, and getting that far... especially if I were a giant orange booger-thing. And I wouldn't want some upstart like Dante just taking it all away.
Now yeah, he did play a pretty lousy trick on Dante with Trish and with turning his brother into a zombie-like slave, and most importantly apparently kidnapping or killing Dante's real mother as some kind of revenge for what Sparda did, and later using her soul to create demon clones. But this guy is clearly furious. He's not thinking straight. He's so wrapped up in revenge and getting into the human world he does something incredibly DUMB - he INVITES the one guy who could kick his ass to the island he's about to enter the human world from. I mean that's his biggest sin of all really - extreme freaking stupidity. At least enter the human world and build up your forces first, you idiot. But like most bad guys, he suffers from pathological overconfidence and thinks he can just enter the human world AND kill Dante in one go.
I dunno. Putting aside Mundus and his revenge/ruling thing, The demons of (classic) DMC don't strike me as inherently mindless evil beings who are just running around doing evil for the sheer hell of it. If you put aside the small fry who are only there for us to trash with our swords as Dante, the demon bosses - who have some kind of character development or lines to say - well they're often just kind of cold, indifferent to human suffering, desire power a lot... but more importantly they all seem pathologically proud (and/or deluded). Sanctus thinks he can somehow take Sparda's place, even if it means trashing his town and killing a bunch of innocent people. He's a megalomaniac, not a basement butcher. Probably a bit senile, too. Vergil is kind of a megalomaniac, as is Credo, and Agnus... Arkham's got a lot of that in him, as has Arius - all the 'big bads' of the series, essentially. They're all nuts for power and glory and ruling people, which is not evil in itself. What they do to get it, though, is where they could be classed as 'evil'. Other lesser demons exhibit more admirable qualities actually. Like Beowulf, for example. He just seems really ****ed that someone betrayed him. I mean, oh the humanity! Thought must have tormented the poor guy for eons. And Griffon is a noble servant, far as I'm concerned. He was just doing what his boss told him to do, to the best of his not-so-great ability, but he came off as a guy I actually felt sympathy for because he wasn't just attacking you for fun OR power. Nothing evil about him, really. Cerberus is a proud guard-dog, doing his duty. Nevan wants to have a bit of fun with Dante (by eating his life/soul) but when she gets her ass kicked she actually decides to help him ('cause she fancied Sparda I think. Oh boy, the Freudian implications of Dante plucking away and making that guitar really sing... oh, dear me). Point is, I think the games kind of go out of their way - unlike say, Dante's Inferno (the game) - to show that demons in general have their own free will and they're not all just murderers that have numb brains. Many have personalities, desires, self-esteem, and certain social expectations. Just like people do, except demons really love and respect the whole power thing, apparently. In fact, these demons might as well be aliens, or some other life form, like Romulans, who just enjoy a good fight and letting those emotions flow, baby.
So Mundus, though he was ripped off of Satan apparently, is just like a big ol' Emperor Palpatine or something. Except better, because I could never figure out what Palpatine did any of his evil crap for, other than kicks and because Sith wanna rule the galaxy, but Mundus at least did some of it because he was trying to get back to the human world which he had been booted out of, and to get revenge on the child of the one who gave him the boot. There was a personal element to what he was doing, because of Sparda. I don't read Star Wars books so I don't know about whatever reasons the Sith need to rule the galaxy other than for pure lust of power, but if the DMC manga is canon, then the reasons for Mundus' conquest of the human world are stated there. DMCs demons don't seem 'just evil' at all to me, and the series itself takes pains - even in the title - to let you know it. Dante is part-demon, so he's like, part violent, and that violent part kinda gets off on killing his own kind for revenge... but he does it for the weak, so that's okay by us. The idea that devils don't cry is really saying that "hey, some DO cry, so don't tar em' all with the same brush, 'kay?" Sparda was a good demon, Arkham was a bad human, Dante is a good hybrid, and so on. It's basically saying all the way through that even though this whole series was conceived from pre-existing ideas about a black-and-white sort of good vs. evil thing, that demons ain't all bad. A lot of 'em have actual feelings and motivations that was can understand. And yes, we do have to understand bad guys to some degree to accept them at all. You don't have to like them or what they do... but don't forget there'd be no actual story without them, or without someone willing to screw things up to create a story. ^___________________^
But then, what God does, rather than just disintegrating this guy for trying to take over Heaven is he allows him to continue existing in Hell. In fact, he even allows Satan to rule over hell, or something similar, and he allows Satan to have influence over human beings - for test purposes, I guess. Satan has this "job" to do, which is tempting human beings to do bad things, given to him by God. Or at least allowed to by God. He's still God's errand boy of sorts... so he's doing the will of God too, in a roundabout way. I can't blame him for that, any more than I could blame him for being created imperfect by God himself. I could blame him for being kind of stupid in attacking God... but I could also blame human beings for being stupid eating that apple and getting us all kicked out of Eden. Angels and humans are God's creations, so they're apparently sort of like children. And children do stupid things. But we don't generally blame them for doing dumb stuff because they haven't become smart yet. Which is why I have a problem with God punishing people and all for eating one apple, when they obviously didn't know anything anyway because they were 'completely innocent' (i.e. kind of stupid or with no sense of responsibility) at that time. But that's another debate.
So, if we can make an excuse for Satan, in that he's kind of dumb (because he thinks he can defeat God... or maybe he thinks he can take over the Earth even when there's already a prophecy that he can only take over for a short time because eventually God WILL come down and throw him into the Lake of Fire). That IS kind of stupid, but if he's fated to lose and burn horribly for eternity, I guess you can't blame the guy for wanting to wreak a little havoc first. And apparently Satan is all angsty about his old defeat because he really wants to ruin God's pet project - humans. So the guy's a bit of a hothead. I can understand that too. Or if he is really being employed by God, for now, then it's not his fault if his job happens to be tricking people into doing evil stuff. It's what he's supposed to do.
As a character, Satan just seems like kind of an idiot to me in some ways. In other ways he's like this tragic favorite son figure who tries to get power and gets put in his place and eats sour grapes ever after, and sucks be to him because ultimately he burns forever for making a stupid mistake. And in other ways, maybe he's like... actually just enjoying his time because he just loves doing evil stuff? I dunno. In any case, does Satan really do evil stuff himself? Like does he personally torture souls in hell for kicks? Or does he have like flunkies to do it for him while he sits back with a beer? I get the impression Satan is just a tempter. HE doesn't do evil stuff, he just gets people to do it so he can take their soul later. If he does personally enjoy torturing people for nothing I can't much sympathise with him, but I think that's the point of the character. He's just written in the Bible as an adversary, and we're not meant to understand him. He's just there, doing evil stuff, because that's apparently his thing, that God lets him do.
Now I don't think Mundus himself operates exactly like Satan, but he's got some qualities of Satan and he was clearly ripped off of Satan and modelled on a Greek God and also an angel, assumedly so that we get the impression he's like this powerful, proud, ancient angelic-like being. And I think he has more in common with an angel than a demon when we first see him. The popular picture of a demon people have with the pointy tail and the wings and all that is probably not how Satan would look at all, since he was an angel once, and since he has the power to trick people, he probably doesn't look like a terrifying, disgusting monster. He'd probably choose to look handsome, impressive, or even endearing (like that little kid in those Omen movies), because that stuff wins people over more easily than terrifying monsters do. Mundus is doing this by appearing as a statue. He looks like a big, strong, wise god or something in two of his three incarnations in the game (excluding DmC which I will not mention because I don't like that interpretation), physically intimidating because of his size, but otherwise the sort of thing humans would drop to their knees and worship. Makes all that business of making humans serve him much easier I guess. Okay, so later he reveals he's actually a gross thing made of hands and eyeballs, but I think he could probably look like anything he wants. When his "look at me, I'm so impressive and god-like" act fails with the statue, he probably tries appearing like a giant orange booger to make Dante crap his pants.
But you can establish from all this that (classic) Mundus is proud, got kinda jilted by Sparda, and really really really wants to rule over humans, and he hates Sparda and all Sparda's kids because Sparda inconvenienced him for quite a while and then buggered off to rule the human world himself. So is this guy unapologetically evil? Well no, because I can actually understand some of these motivations. Some humans have similar motivations. It's a very human thing to desire power, you don't have to be some kind of genocidal demi-god to do it. People like exerting power over each other all the time, even if it's really subtle, like knowing more facts than your other nerdy friend does, and telling him so via the internet to "put him in his place". It's also not unusual for humans to dislike people who screw them over - betray them - as Sparda did to Mundus. I can totally understand Mundus wanting revenge on Sparda, and I can understand him wanting revenge on Dante if Dante thinks he's gonna do exactly the same thing as his father did and slaughter all my minions and creepy wooden puppets that I spent ages making.
He's proud too. But most of us are proud of something. Our views, our kids, our heritage... whatever it might be. So it's not crazy for him to be proud of somehow getting to be the Emperor of the whole entire Underworld. I'd be proud of that achievement, and getting that far... especially if I were a giant orange booger-thing. And I wouldn't want some upstart like Dante just taking it all away.
Now yeah, he did play a pretty lousy trick on Dante with Trish and with turning his brother into a zombie-like slave, and most importantly apparently kidnapping or killing Dante's real mother as some kind of revenge for what Sparda did, and later using her soul to create demon clones. But this guy is clearly furious. He's not thinking straight. He's so wrapped up in revenge and getting into the human world he does something incredibly DUMB - he INVITES the one guy who could kick his ass to the island he's about to enter the human world from. I mean that's his biggest sin of all really - extreme freaking stupidity. At least enter the human world and build up your forces first, you idiot. But like most bad guys, he suffers from pathological overconfidence and thinks he can just enter the human world AND kill Dante in one go.
I dunno. Putting aside Mundus and his revenge/ruling thing, The demons of (classic) DMC don't strike me as inherently mindless evil beings who are just running around doing evil for the sheer hell of it. If you put aside the small fry who are only there for us to trash with our swords as Dante, the demon bosses - who have some kind of character development or lines to say - well they're often just kind of cold, indifferent to human suffering, desire power a lot... but more importantly they all seem pathologically proud (and/or deluded). Sanctus thinks he can somehow take Sparda's place, even if it means trashing his town and killing a bunch of innocent people. He's a megalomaniac, not a basement butcher. Probably a bit senile, too. Vergil is kind of a megalomaniac, as is Credo, and Agnus... Arkham's got a lot of that in him, as has Arius - all the 'big bads' of the series, essentially. They're all nuts for power and glory and ruling people, which is not evil in itself. What they do to get it, though, is where they could be classed as 'evil'. Other lesser demons exhibit more admirable qualities actually. Like Beowulf, for example. He just seems really ****ed that someone betrayed him. I mean, oh the humanity! Thought must have tormented the poor guy for eons. And Griffon is a noble servant, far as I'm concerned. He was just doing what his boss told him to do, to the best of his not-so-great ability, but he came off as a guy I actually felt sympathy for because he wasn't just attacking you for fun OR power. Nothing evil about him, really. Cerberus is a proud guard-dog, doing his duty. Nevan wants to have a bit of fun with Dante (by eating his life/soul) but when she gets her ass kicked she actually decides to help him ('cause she fancied Sparda I think. Oh boy, the Freudian implications of Dante plucking away and making that guitar really sing... oh, dear me). Point is, I think the games kind of go out of their way - unlike say, Dante's Inferno (the game) - to show that demons in general have their own free will and they're not all just murderers that have numb brains. Many have personalities, desires, self-esteem, and certain social expectations. Just like people do, except demons really love and respect the whole power thing, apparently. In fact, these demons might as well be aliens, or some other life form, like Romulans, who just enjoy a good fight and letting those emotions flow, baby.
So Mundus, though he was ripped off of Satan apparently, is just like a big ol' Emperor Palpatine or something. Except better, because I could never figure out what Palpatine did any of his evil crap for, other than kicks and because Sith wanna rule the galaxy, but Mundus at least did some of it because he was trying to get back to the human world which he had been booted out of, and to get revenge on the child of the one who gave him the boot. There was a personal element to what he was doing, because of Sparda. I don't read Star Wars books so I don't know about whatever reasons the Sith need to rule the galaxy other than for pure lust of power, but if the DMC manga is canon, then the reasons for Mundus' conquest of the human world are stated there. DMCs demons don't seem 'just evil' at all to me, and the series itself takes pains - even in the title - to let you know it. Dante is part-demon, so he's like, part violent, and that violent part kinda gets off on killing his own kind for revenge... but he does it for the weak, so that's okay by us. The idea that devils don't cry is really saying that "hey, some DO cry, so don't tar em' all with the same brush, 'kay?" Sparda was a good demon, Arkham was a bad human, Dante is a good hybrid, and so on. It's basically saying all the way through that even though this whole series was conceived from pre-existing ideas about a black-and-white sort of good vs. evil thing, that demons ain't all bad. A lot of 'em have actual feelings and motivations that was can understand. And yes, we do have to understand bad guys to some degree to accept them at all. You don't have to like them or what they do... but don't forget there'd be no actual story without them, or without someone willing to screw things up to create a story. ^___________________^
I don't think evil characters apologize but more explain themselves logically for their actions. Sometimes i buy it and sometimes i don't.I think we live in a 'winner takes it all' world where winning=good, losing=evil. Which i don't agree at all.
I also don't think there's nothing redeemable of an evil character. People are not born evil.
I also don't think there's nothing redeemable of an evil character. People are not born evil.
IncarnatedDemon
Well-known Member
My sincere apologies to you, humans and vampires alike, for my memory failed me in enlightning you.
I am the ruler of this land
Anyone want to try guess who this character is? Should be quite easy. Note: The quote is made by me with the character in mind.
I am the ruler of this land
Anyone want to try guess who this character is? Should be quite easy. Note: The quote is made by me with the character in mind.
Electromagnetic
All hail The King
Mom (The Binding of Isaac) IMO.
She wants to kill her son (who she clearly hates and abuses, as evident by the in-level dream sequences and all those child abuse references.) just because a voice in her head (who claims to be God) tells her to do so. Voice of God, my ass. More like her messed-up brain is giving her an excuse for her to get rid of Isaac. (Please, keep in mind that your view of Mom and her actions might be different, based on your interpretation of the game.)
Edit: Or maybe Walter "Heisenberg" White.
TerrorA
Don't mess with a Mage, bitch.
*ahem* Wyald (Berserk, the second Apostle encountered and one of the nastiest pieces of work that Guts and company meet before the Eclipse goes down. A depraved hedonist and Serial killer, he leads a band of mercenaries made up of the worst murderers, rapists and all around scum that Midland has to offer. Wyald is introduced in the midst of an orgy, having sex with several dozen women. As he finishes with each girl, he breaks her neck, hurls her onto a pile of bodies, and then moves onto the next one, gloating about how his motto is "Excitement and Enjoyment." This sets the tone for the rest of his appearances, which show him to be a walking, breathing, raping machine. When he and his knights come across a young family, including a mother and several children, that have aided the Band of the Hawk that they have been hired to track down, they proceed to rape and murder everyone, including the children. This is followed by dismembering their bodies and carrying them naked on poles into battle with the Hawks, who are all horrified at the sight. He doesn't even give a **** for his own men, frequently triggering traps and getting them killed, solely so that he can laugh at their deaths. After transforming into his true shape, of a fifty foot tall gorilla with a three foot thick spiky penis, he attempts to rape Casca with it, bragging that she'll "feel like a virgin again" as it rips her in two. Even his own men, the aforementioned worst scum of the kingdom, follow him mainly because they are utterly terrified of him. ) Ganishka (Berserk; mass executions, ethnic cleansing, using conquered populations as human shields or cannon fodder for his armies, attempting to rape the captive princess Charlotte and suspending women over a pool filled with hungry crocodiles, dropping thousands of pregnant women into cauldrons with stitched-together Apostles to turn the unborn babies into half-human demons that rip apart their mothers upon birth. Grandiose, megalomaniacal, and obsessed with his position as The Emperor, Ganishka revels in being as evil as he possibly can be.
That's just 2 examples from 1 work. Try me