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Enemy variety

TyIquan_DmC said:
Or you could just call them Dante and Vergil, since...you know...it's their names.

But anyway, I don't see how fans of the old series(which mainly comes from DMC3) can complain about enemy variety in this game. The Hells of DMC3 each only had two attacks, and only one of them were unique to each. The Abyss had a few extra attacks, I think. The Vanguard was a more upper tier enemy, so of course it differed. The rest of the enemies were embarrassing aside from the Fallen and Arachne.

DMC4's enemies were simply rehashes of DMC1 enemies, plus the weak human-made demons. But even so, due to the rehashed DMC1 demons, DMC4 had a good variety, IMO. In turn, so did DMC1.

DMC2...actually wasn't too bad, but there were countless clones. It's like there were families of demons lol. But they weren't really that bad thinking about it.

In DmC we've got the Stygians(weak, stronger, upper, and another variant), the Knights(which are practically just Stygians with shields), Ravagers, Pathos(Arrow, Bomb), Harpies, the witch, Rage, Tyrants, and more we don't know of.

Idk, but that easily trumps DMC3's enemies. DMC1(and by extension, DMC4) and DMC2 is more debatable.
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The thing is, that the DMC3 enemies were distinguishable by their AI/behavior and animations, DmC's look like the same enemy just bigger, differently colored and shielded with a different weapon.
 
I dunno, compared to DMC1 it's pretty good. I keep bringing up DMC1 since I've played it the most... I know how the enemies react on all difficulties. DMC3 I pretty much only know them on easy and normal.

DMC1 had manniquins, lizard things, witch/ghost things, electric bats, spiders, demon's that grow with masks, shadow wolves, floating skulls, and bugs.

With DmC... I have no idea how to categorize the enemies. but overall they seem to be unique enough, no? You have the chainsaw dudes, small manniquins, manniquins with shields, colored ones... then you have the four legged things,the huge fat dudes, the witches, and the flying enemies.

..but, isn't it too early to complain over the lack of variety? all the enemies haven't even been revealed yet.
 
Half of the enemies in DMC1 were some form of marionette of various colors, and DMC3's enemies were all some form of grim reaper of various colors and sizes, who only had a maximum of two different attacks if they were lucky. There isn't some grand precedent set that DmC has to live up to, really.

DmC isn't allowed to follow a similar theme? Especially when all the non-boss demons are supposed to originate from a similar place? You don't like the theme DmC has fine, but stop nitpicking.
 
Give me one ground enemy that can attack Dino while he is mid-air, and one enemy that can attack mid-jump and I will be happy. The AI appears to suck in comparison to previous games.
 
Ground enemy that can attack you while in midair? The Witch, I guess, she throws swords at you. I don't even know what you mean by "mid-jump." We also don't know all of the enemies, so...there could be more that do exactly what you want them to do.

And it sucks in comparison to the previous games' AI? You mean the previous games' AI like DMC3's where enemies just jump in front of you, even when doing attacks? That AI? Or several of the other sandbags with two or three attacks max throughout DMC history?

At least in DmC the enemy AI makes them move around in a more tactical manner, always strafing and keeping a certain amount of distance until you're seemingly not focused on them.
 
I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but there's a Stygian who has a small robe, a samurai sword and a creepy human grin who disappears through portals and pops out to attack, like the grim reaper miniboss in DMC3's second level.
 
TWOxACROSS said:
Ground enemy that can attack you while in midair? The Witch, I guess, she throws swords at you. I don't even know what you mean by "mid-jump." We also don't know all of the enemies, so...there could be more that do exactly what you want them to do.

And it sucks in comparison to the previous games' AI? You mean the previous games' AI like DMC3's where enemies just jump in front of you, even when doing attacks? That AI? Or several of the other sandbags with two or three attacks max throughout DMC history?

At least in DmC the enemy AI makes them move around in a more tactical manner, always strafing and keeping a certain amount of distance until you're seemingly not focused on them.
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Okay, the Witch, but that doesn't appear to be a common enemy and it's just one so far.
By "mid-jump" I mean like pretty much most if not all enemies in the original series, especially DMC4, attacking Dante while he is in the air by jumping and slashing him or shooting projectiles among others.
DmC's mannequins just stand there and wait till Dino lands.
About DMC3, you must have played the game on easier difficulties, notably DMC1 and DMC4 have great AI
KenKen said:
I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but there's a Stygian who has a small robe, a samurai sword and a creepy human grin who disappears through portals and pops out to attack, like the grim reaper miniboss in DMC3's second level.
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At least this sound cool.
 
I only remember a handful of enemies throughout the entire series that had aerial attacks, and they were usually the Lizard-types. Sometimes the Marionettes had knives or a gun. The Blitz had a laser attack, but he's not very common. Most of DMC3's enemies didn't really do much of anything to you if you weren't on their turf, except for Spiders, Blood-goyles, the Fallen (not very common), Damned Knights (but that's just a jumping attack anyway), and Enigmas (but they only shoot anyway).

Most grounded enemies didn't really have anti-air moves, unless it's their only form of attacking :/
 
Valcorn said:
Give me one ground enemy that can attack Dino while he is mid-air, and one enemy that can attack mid-jump and I will be happy. The AI appears to suck in comparison to previous games.
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I once pressed the pause button after a scarecrow made a vault and jumped over my slash dimension.
quite shocking you know.
Yeah, hell lusts were a great nuisance weren't they?
 
Valcorn said:
Okay, the Witch, but that doesn't appear to be a common enemy and it's just one so far.
By "mid-jump" I mean like pretty much most if not all enemies in the original series, especially DMC4, attacking Dante while he is in the air by jumping and slashing him or shooting projectiles among others.
DmC's mannequins just stand there and wait till Dino lands.
About DMC3, you must have played the game on easier difficulties, notably DMC1 and DMC4 have great AI


At least this sound cool.
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That is not correct. The grounded enemies' attacks tend to have pretty tall hitboxes. The Ravagers, Knights, and Stygians have all demonstrated through my playthroughs of the demo that they are capable of knocking Dante out of the air, even without jumping themselves. They certainly continue to attack if Dante's within their range, and they follow him around.

Also, please stop the "Dino" stuff. It's a derogatory term that does not give your arguments any credit. If you need another term for this game's interpretation of the character, "DmC Dante" works just fine.
 
Furious D said:
That is not correct. The grounded enemies' attacks tend to have pretty tall hitboxes. The Ravagers, Knights, and Stygians have all demonstrated through my playthroughs of the demo that they are capable of knocking Dante out of the air, even without jumping themselves. They certainly continue to attack if Dante's within their range, and they follow him around.

Also, please stop the "Dino" stuff. It's a derogatory term that does not give your arguments any credit. If you need another term for this game's interpretation of the character, "DmC Dante" works just fine.
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That is true, they have large vertical swinging arcs on attacks that can hit you in the air if you're not up high enough. I think you have to be at least at the peak of your jump or higher to not get hit by it. If you don't do your aerial combos fast enough, you will dip down into their threat range again.
 
Valcorn said:
The thing is, that the DMC3 enemies were distinguishable by their AI/behavior and animations, DmC's look like the same enemy just bigger, differently colored and shielded with a different weapon.
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Not too sure about that, as much as they simply had different attacks. I'm pretty sure they didn't have different behavioral patterns. And even so, you must not pay attention to the enemies here, because they definitely have different behavior patterns.

The weaker Stygians you fight in the second half of the demo tend to attack a lot less than the ones you fight right at the beginning. Those will attack you no matter what, and stay on you, but the weaker ones kind of just dilly-dally and are often the ones people are referring to when they say, "They enemies won't even attack you!!11"

Also, the Frost Knights tend to keep their distance, and don't often attack unless you get close. They aren't as relentless in their attacks as the other Knights, or Ravagers or anything really.

Also, I had noted that the Knights were just bigger shielded Stygians. Not sure why you echoed me, as it doesn't make the other enemy types go away.
 
Oh, here's another enemy with anit-air moves - the Rage's can shoot quills at you, but they also have a rolling attack and claw attacks.
 
TWOxACROSS said:
Oh, here's another enemy with anit-air moves - the Rage's can shoot quills at you, but they also have a rolling attack and claw attacks.
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Yep? then that's a plus for me.
But look at it this way, DMC4 an example:
-Scarecrow (leg) jumps and cuts, blocks
-Mega Scarecrow rolls all over the place and jumps
-Frost teleports up to Dante, jumps and shoots projectiles, not to mention freezes floor... a very good enemy indeed with a lot of abilities
-Assault is a bit stronger than DmC's Rage because it goes underground and has a shield, but Rage appears to have more health points and "enrage" powerup
-Blitz, if you are a noob, you are dead, 2 in a room = hell
-Chimera seeds are also annoying, too wise for a flower or what's that
-Mempisto&Faust, do I need to say anything?
-Alto&Bianco Angelos, the same as above.

They have many attack patterns, both offensive&defensive abilities, good AI, and the most importantly of all....................................... they MOVE and there's little pause between their attacks.
Watching Greg's stream on Son of Sparda (Very Hard of DmC) I saw that with 2 Tank enemies in a room at once, only one attacks while the other just waits.
They aren't aggressive enough, but I must admit that Dino Must Die looks challenging enough.
 
Valcorn said:
Yep? then that's a plus for me.
But look at it this way, DMC4 an example:
-Scarecrow (leg) jumps and cuts, blocks
-Mega Scarecrow rolls all over the place and jumps
-Frost teleports up to Dante, jumps and shoots projectiles, not to mention freezes floor... a very good enemy indeed with a lot of abilities
-Assault is a bit stronger than DmC's Rage because it goes underground and has a shield, but Rage appears to have more health points and "enrage" powerup
-Blitz, if you are a noob, you are dead, 2 in a room = hell
-Chimera seeds are also annoying, too wise for a flower or what's that
-Mempisto&Faust, do I need to say anything?
-Alto&Bianco Angelos, the same as above.

They have many attack patterns, both offensive&defensive abilities, good AI, and the most importantly of all....................................... they MOVE and there's little pause between their attacks.
Watching Greg's stream on Son of Sparda (Very Hard of DmC) I saw that with 2 Tank enemies in a room at once, only one attacks while the other just waits.
They aren't aggressive enough, but I must admit that Dino Must Die looks challenging enough.
Click to expand...
That's not exactly true. I can recall at least one time where both Tyrants did their belly-flops in quick succession. I'm pretty sure they just follow the DMC4 rule, where if the enemy isn't on-screen, it doesn't attack.
 
Valcorn said:
Yep? then that's a plus for me.
But look at it this way, DMC4 an example:
-Scarecrow (leg) jumps and cuts, blocks
-Mega Scarecrow rolls all over the place and jumps
-Frost teleports up to Dante, jumps and shoots projectiles, not to mention freezes floor... a very good enemy indeed with a lot of abilities
-Assault is a bit stronger than DmC's Rage because it goes underground and has a shield, but Rage appears to have more health points and "enrage" powerup
-Blitz, if you are a noob, you are dead, 2 in a room = hell
-Chimera seeds are also annoying, too wise for a flower or what's that
-Mempisto&Faust, do I need to say anything?
-Alto&Bianco Angelos, the same as above
Click to expand...

Sigh... I'm not even a fully supporter of DmC and your arguments seem silly to me.

The only reason the enemies in this game seem like they don't do anything is because half the time you are juggling about 3-4 of them at once, which this kinda stuff was non-existent in past DMCs unless you used jump cancel and a wide hitbox aerial attack, like with the Yamato in DMC4. So if you're going to complain about something, complain about that.

Otherwise, the AI is completely in pair with other DMCs. They move around and they attack according to their position/situation.

Here's the deal:

1. You haven't played the full game and you haven't seen every enemy and less of what they can actually do. You also don't know how many times they are going to be spawning. For instance, the blitz spawns like three-four times in DMC4 on regular-hard mode.

2. Your arguments are invalid. They can easily be countered. For example, enemies block, enemies shoot projectiles, enemies have shields, enemies have airborne attacks, etc.

3. You probably played DMC3/4 back when you had little skill in the hack-and-slash department, meaning you actually found the enemies to be quite tough and now you play DmC with past experiences and can already see all the patterns in the AI.

4. Maybe you found the enemy attack animations of past DMC games to be more interesting and good looking. I know I did. But that means nothing in technicality.
 
Sparing you a long response, even those who have played the game and like it agree that it's easier than the originals. The close-to-infinite airborne combat might be one of the reason why it's easier, but there must be more to it. And no, I'm still playing DMC3&4 with turbo and DmC is somehow too easy while once in a while, I'm still forced to use a healing item in DMC3 on Hard and up.
 
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