Do you think DMC 2015 is still happening?

[Deleted member 25469]

In light of DmC's moderate sales numbers, do you still think a new Devil May Cry game is happening by 2015, as originally planned?

PLEASE REMEMBER: Comments about the fan backlash against DmC will be made in this post. These comments are not intended to suggest that this backlash was universal or representative of Devil May Cry fandom as a whole: It existed, and it is impossible to determine just what portion of the fanbase was involved in it: It might have been a big majority, a small minority, a moderate majority or minority... I do not know, I cannot know and make no claims about it whatsoever.

Pros:
- DmC seems to be selling more recently, and has officially outsold DMC3 (whether or not it has sold even more should be known soon).
- DmC was an almost universal success in the professional reviews scene
- Capcom has praised the sales of DmC as "solid" during at least one of their financial reports
- Regardless of anything related to DmC, Devil May Cry 5 could be a possibility based on the strong success of Devil May Cry 4 or even as a response to the backlash against DmC (attempting to spark sales through a "return to form" of sorts).
- Capcom has shown willingness to bring popular yet dead franchises back to life with a bang (Strider 2014)
- The Next Gen might be the perfect time for the Devil May Cry franchise to make a big impact, especially thanks to the well-known PC architecture making development easier!
- Capcom themselves DID say they wanted more DMC by 2015...

Cons:
- ... Even though they did so before DmC's release and when they expected it to sell 5 million copies (ludicrous, considering no game in the franchise has even broken the 3 million barrier and most are sitting near or under the 2M mark).
- New DMC by 2015, yet it is 2014 and we haven't even heard of a sequel thus far?
- Ninja Theory recently confirmed that they are not currently working on a sequel, which makes a NT-developed Devil May Cry by 2015 very much impossible unless they rush it for a late-2015 release. (However a DmC 2/DMC5 developed by someone else remains a possibility)
- There was a certain degree of fan backlash, which is reflected, amongst other places, in user reviews of several sites such as Metacritic
- The sales of the game have fallen dismally short of either of the sales targets established by Capcom. It is very likely that the DmC project has not been the slightest bit profitable in light of this.
- Capcom has shown willingness to allow popular franchises to wither and die for relatively long periods of time (MegaMan).
- The Next Gen might make a risky move such as a new Devil May Cry even riskier, due to the low install base of the hardware.

Your thoughts?

 

[Demi-fiend]

You mind if I just say "Low End Graphics"?

'Cause that's the only way they can avoid going over-budget and still keep the fluid animation.

Also, in DMC 1, 2, and 3, some of the backgrounds have changed when the story demanded it. Personally, I think it should change in real time.

Not like Silent Hill Homecoming (the fifth one), but more like Silent Hill Downpour (the less-sucky one).

Or Silent Hill: Shattered Memories (the Wii one). That had great real-time shifting effects.

 

[Deleted member 25469]

Low end graphics would not be a problem with me if the art style is pristine. Strider 2014 has low resolution textures and simple geometry overall, but the art style and lighting (both cheap things to do, development-wise) make it look astounding and I love it.

I personally would not mind a low/mid-budget Devil May Cry in 2015, much in the vein of Strider but with the budget being somewhat bigger. Strider is a 2D game after all.

Strider itself took 2 years to develop however, I don't think DMC could make it in time unless it is underway already.

 

[DantesLink]

Might I ask where that 5 Mil' expectation came from? I thought the original expectation (Made back in May 2012) was 2 Million Shipped.

 

[xMobilemux]

I don't think it'll be either, because Ninja Theory confirmed they're not working on DmC2 and not long ago Itsuno said he wants to make DMC5, he "wants" to make it, he's not currently making it, making DMC5 internally without him wouldn't make much sense as he and his team pretty much saved the franchise after they screwed up.
Having someone else making it doesn't seem likely either as Capcom did state that they'll be leaning away from outsourcing.
So I don't think it's gonna happen in 2015.

 

[Loopy]

Nope, too soon to have DmC 2 out, if at all. NT already said in a tweet that they aren't working on it, but the big thing is that sales were much lower than they wanted. What's the point in making it if it won't make them their money back, plus a profit?

 

[Enigma]

In light of DmC's moderate sales numbers, do you still think a new Devil May Cry game is happening by 2015, as originally planned?

Pros:
- DmC seems to be selling more recently, and has officially outsold DMC3 (whether or not it has sold even more should be known soon).
- DmC was an almost universal success in the professional reviews scene
- Capcom has praised the sales of DmC as "solid" during at least one of their financial reports
- Regardless of anything related to DmC, Devil May Cry 5 could be a possibility based on the strong success of Devil May Cry 4 or even as a response to the backlash against DmC (attempting to spark sales through a "return to form" of sorts).

Cons:
- ... Even though they did so before DmC's release and when they expected it to sell 5 million copies (ludicrous, considering no game in the franchise has even broken the 3 million barrier and most are sitting near or under the 2M mark).
- New DMC by 2015, yet it is 2014 and we haven't even heard of a sequel thus far?
- There was a certain degree of fan backlash, which is reflected, amongst other places, in user reviews of several sites such as Metacritic
- The sales of the game have fallen dismally short of either of the sales targets established by Capcom. It is very likely that the DmC project has not been the slightest bit profitable in light of this.
- Capcom has shown willingness to allow popular franchises to wither and die for relatively long periods of time (MegaMan).
- The Next Gen might make a risky move such as a new Devil May Cry even riskier, due to the low install base of the hardware.

Your thoughts?

DmC was expected to sell like five million copies, yes. That shouldn't be ludicrous; GTA V managed to sell 29 million copies in a short timespan of six weeks. Tomb Raider sold one million within 48 hours. Besides, Capcom knows what it's doing when it's projecting sales. They don't just rattle an apple tree and base their projected sales figure in millions on the number of fallen apples. DmC was considered to be a failure, also by Capcom. Them saying it did well sales-wise after like a year is not good enough for the games industry; they wanted it to sell at least... 3 million, was it? It eventually sold 1.1 or something within the allotted time frame.

DmC outselling DMC3 is not that great a feat, I'd say, considering DMC2 left gamers with a bad taste in their mouths which lowered DMC3's sales figure because of bad expectations. Aside from that, sales of the DMC games were fairly low already, considering not many people even heard of the games. Capcom set out to 'westernize' DMC and make it known to a larger audience, but DmC still managed to sell only 1.3 million by now, I think. That's bad. Also, DMC3's sales are the lowest of the series.

I truly believe that most user scores on Metacritic don't come from longtime fans of Devil May Cry - they come from all kinds of gamers. I mean, there are 1288 ratings there. I don't expect them all to be DMC fans. And DmC still got a 5/10 there. I don't expect DMC5 or DmC2 to be released in 2015. If that were the case, we'd at least have seen a trailer or heard some news. Capcom just doesn't know what to do - they realized they effed up Resident Evil (and many other of their most important franchises, according to most people). Then they realized they shouldn't have changed DMC to DmC without ending the series first. I'm still looking forward to DMC5 - I hope Capcom doesn't just let DMC 'wither and die' like you said. Better to just give it back to the people who created DMC1 and Bayonetta, even.

 

[Rebel Dynasty]

DmC was expected to sell like five million copies, yes. That shouldn't be ludicrous; GTA V managed to sell 29 million copies in a short timespan of six weeks. Tomb Raider sold one million within 48 hours.

But what the OP is saying is that none of the games in the franchise have pulled that off, thus the expectation that DmC would is ludicrous. In comparison to other games' sales, it doesn't seem ludicrous-it may even appear sad-but honestly, I've never put much stock in "what's popular right now" to begin with. A lot of the games that sell well aren't necessarily going to appeal to everyone, and nor should they be set as the standard for what a good game is; there are plenty that I find overrated, but masses clamber to them.

Of course, you made a similar point later in your post about DMC3's sales; sales are not the only, nor true, indication of whether the game is good, or not. If not for the people shying away from it because of 2, it likely would have done better-but, spilled milk, and all that.

But anyway, in regards to the OP's question: I doubt either DmC2 or DMC5 will be coming out next year. I mean, it's a possibility...but it seems highly unlikely to me. If they do come out with another, maybe 2016?

 

[Enigma]

But what the OP is saying is that none of the games in the franchise have pulled that off, thus the expectation that DmC would is ludicrous.

Of course, you made a similar point later in your post about DMC3's sales; sales are not the only, nor true, indication of whether the game is good, or not. If not for the people shying away from it because of 2, it likely would have done better-but, spilled milk, and all that.

But anyway, in regards to the OP's question: I doubt either DmC2 or DMC5 will be coming out next year. I mean, it's a possibility...but it seems highly unlikely to me. If they do come out with another, maybe 2016?

No, you misunderstand. I guess I wasn't clear enough, which is my bad.
My point with DMC3's sales was that DMC3 didn't sell very well either, but DmC was made to appeal more to western gamers (or even gamers in general), and therefore to sell more copies. It even became known to more gamers than the DMC games due to the PR. The fact that it stayed on about the same level as DMC3 up to now is pretty bad, considering all that. DmC could've easily done much better than how it did if it were actually a new Devil May Cry game (DMC) and if it stayed true to its roots, had better writing, dialog etc.

 

[Captain Xin]

DmC was expected to sell like five million copies, yes. That shouldn't be ludicrous; GTA V managed to sell 29 million copies in a short timespan of six weeks. Tomb Raider sold one million within 48 hours. Besides, Capcom knows what it's doing when it's projecting sales. They don't just rattle an apple tree and base their projected sales figure in millions on the number of fallen apples. DmC was considered to be a failure, also by Capcom. Them saying it did well sales-wise after like a year is not good enough for the games industry; they wanted it to sell at least... 3 million, was it? It eventually sold 1.1 or something within the allotted time frame.

DmC outselling DMC3 is not that great a feat, I'd say, considering DMC2 left gamers with a bad taste in their mouths which lowered DMC3's sales figure because of bad expectations. Aside from that, sales of the DMC games were fairly low already, considering not many people even heard of the games. Capcom set out to 'westernize' DMC and make it known to a larger audience, but DmC still managed to sell only 1.3 million by now, I think. That's bad. Also, DMC3's sales are the lowest of the series.

I truly believe that most user scores on Metacritic don't come from longtime fans of Devil May Cry - they come from all kinds of gamers. I mean, there are 1288 ratings there. I don't expect them all to be DMC fans. And DmC still got a 5/10 there. I don't expect DMC5 or DmC2 to be released in 2015. If that were the case, we'd at least have seen a trailer or heard some news. Capcom just doesn't know what to do - they realized they effed up Resident Evil (and many other of their most important franchises, according to most people). Then they realized they shouldn't have changed DMC to DmC without ending the series first. I'm still looking forward to DMC5 - I hope Capcom doesn't just let DMC 'wither and die' like you said. Better to just give it back to the people who created DMC1 and Bayonetta, even.

I consider those things flooding Metacritic as fake accounts, they're full of false statement, they were made BEFORE the game hit the market, most of them were "one hit review"_which means the reviewer had only THAT review and he(she) never used that reviewing account ever again_typical Metacritic BS.

But seriously, I don't think Metacritic should be taken seriously anymore, especially user reviews. Those reviews were biased, those accounts were fake. People just pick whatever they thought popular and sh!t on it to make themselves look cool.

 

[Captain Xin]

No, you misunderstand. I guess I wasn't clear enough, which is my bad.
My point with DMC3's sales was that DMC3 didn't sell very well either, but DmC was made to appeal more to western gamers (or even gamers in general), and therefore to sell more copies. It even became known to more gamers than the DMC games due to the PR. The fact that it stayed on about the same level as DMC3 up to now is pretty bad, considering all that. DmC could've easily done much better than how it did if it were actually a new Devil May Cry game (DMC) and if it stayed true to its roots, had better writing, dialog etc.

All right I have to say it, my native language wasn't English but even I can tell that the dialogue in previous games were laughable, they made no sense, and they were horribly performed. Although it may have its unique "cheesy" kind of style. There's still no way in hell those dialogue would be considered "good writing".

Why ? Because they were translated from freaking Japanese! Yes, the series got better in terms of dialogue and performance. But most of the time it still reminded me of those unintentionally funny moments in old Resident Evil.

 

[Rebel Dynasty]

No, you misunderstand. I guess I wasn't clear enough, which is my bad.
My point with DMC3's sales was that DMC3 didn't sell very well either, but DmC was made to appeal more to western gamers (or even gamers in general), and therefore to sell more copies. It even became known to more gamers than the DMC games due to the PR. The fact that it stayed on about the same level as DMC3 up to now is pretty bad, considering all that. DmC could've easily done much better than how it did if it were actually a new Devil May Cry game (DMC) and if it stayed true to its roots, had better writing, dialog etc.

Ah, I see what you mean, now. Yeah, considering DmC got better coverage, you'd think they would have exceeded DMC3's sales...but then again, the coverage was a veritable mixed bag of reactions, so perhaps that's why the sales are still as tentative as they are.

Lol, I won't comment on whether a newer DMC would have done better than the reboot-it comes down to the fanbase, and whether they would have done a less half-assed job of it, as they did with DMC4. (I love 4, but even I can't deny, they came up short on certain things, there).

 

[Rebel Dynasty]

All right I have to say it, my native language wasn't English but even I can tell that the dialogue in previous games were laughable, they made no sense, and they were horribly performed. Although it may have its unique "cheesy" kind of style. There's still no way in hell those dialogue would be considered "good writing".

Why ? Because they were translated from freaking Japanese! Yes, the series got better in terms of dialogue and performance. But most of the time it still reminded me of those unintentionally funny moments in old Resident Evil.

Lol, senseless or not, they had their charms. It all depends on the person, though; my sense of humour varies from one thing to another. It wasn't all bad writing either, but it wasn't intended to be taken seriously. There were moments of course where you needed to and could take it seriously, but the rest of the time (like the Shakespeare parody scene between Dante and Agnus in DMC4), was intended to be taken lighter.

Weird, certainly; but, different strokes and all that jazz.

 

[Enigma]

I consider those things flooding Metacritic as fake accounts, they're full of false statement, they were made BEFORE the game hit the market, most of them were "one hit review"_which means the reviewer had only THAT review and he(she) never used that reviewing account again_typical Metacritic BS.

But seriously, I don't think Metacritic should be taken seriously anymore, especially user reviews. Those reviews were biased, those accounts were fake. People just pick whatever they thought popular and sh!t on it to make themselves look cool.

I'm sure some of those user reviews were made because of hatred towards DmC. That much is apparent when you read some of them. But I refuse to believe that all of them (1288 ratings, I think) were negative simply because DmC was not what they expected. I think at least half of them were well-argumented, so I think there's a good reason DmC got a 5/10 there.

 

[Captain Xin]

Lol, senseless or not, they had their charms. It all depends on the person, though; my sense of humour varies from one thing to another. It wasn't all bad writing either, but it wasn't intended to be taken seriously. There were moments of course where you needed to and could take it seriously, but the rest of the time (like the Shakespeare parody scene between Dante and Agnus in DMC4), was intended to be taken lighter.

Weird, certainly; but, different strokes and all that jazz.

I think the previous title were enjoyable in those over the top, Anime kind of way. They were MADE not to be taken seriously. Add one of those "For the power of hope!" kind of dramatic anime nonsense and you've got yourself a CRAZYYY fun ride.

 

[Enigma]

All right I have to say it, my native language wasn't English but even I can tell that the dialogue in previous games were laughable, they made no sense, and they were horribly performed. Although it may have its unique "cheesy" kind of style. There's still no way in hell those dialogue would be considered "good writing".

Why ? Because they were translated from freaking Japanese! Yes, the series got better in terms of dialogue and performance. But most of the time it still reminded me of those unintentionally funny moments in old Resident Evil.

My native language isn't English either, but I'm a teacher of English - still learning, though. I totally disagree.

Fact is, DMC3's writing is still better than DmC's. I'm not going to debate that yet again. All that time of needing to defend myself when DmC clearly has poor writing at times (not saying the writing in general is bad, just a lot of it)... not again. Even people who write normal, acceptable reviews on Metacritic agree that the writing was often not exactly great. I don't see how DMC's writing was bad. It was meant to be cheesy, and lines in DMC4 were expertly delivered by the guy who voices Nero. Reuben Langdon as 'older Dante' is a different story, but it also has a lot to do with how he tried to lower his voice to sound older. In DMC3, he was very convincing. More so than Tim Phillipps.

 

[Rebel Dynasty]

I think the previous title were enjoyable in those over the top, Anime kind of way. They were MADE not to be taken seriously. Add one of those "For the power of hope!" kind of dramatic anime nonsense and you've got yourself a CRAZYYY fun ride.

Lol, that's how I see it, too. If they ever do a DMC5, I wouldn't mind them bringing back that kind of campy humour-but I'd also love to see them balance it out a bit better, let some of the darker themes creep in the way they did in DMC1 (and a little in DMC3).

 

[Loopy]

Fact is, DMC3's writing is still better than DmC's.

Not everyone is going to agree with that. Opinion does not equal fact. It's subjective whether people like DmC's writing more or less than previous DMC games.

It was meant to be cheesy, and lines in DMC4 were expertly delivered by the guy who voices Nero. Reuben Langdon as 'older Dante' is a different story, but it also has a lot to do with how he tried to lower his voice to sound older. In DMC3, he was very convincing. More so than Tim Phillipps.

True enough, it was very cheesy and meant to be that way for a reason, which is why I wonder why they bothered trying to make it go a more serious route in DMC4.
It just didn't do much for me, what with plot holes, cardboard cutout love interest Kyrie; cheesy Nero screaming scene, complete with sparkly tears....things like that make for one groan-fest worthy plot. They should just stick to being full on cheesy in future, or something more like DMC3, instead of throwing a lot of cheesy scenes and line delivery into a plot that was made to compete with more serious games.

To me, it seems like they didn't quite know what they were going for when they wrote the plot and script.

 

[Enigma]

Not everyone is going to agree with that. Opinion does not equal fact. It's subjective whether people like DmC's writing more or less than previous DMC games.

Not everything is subjective. I think there are certainly guidelines as to what constitutes 'good' writing. If there weren't, then official reviewers would be completely unneeded. Roger Ebert, somebody who knew exactly what he was talking about, rest his soul, would've been doing a useless job. I'm sure he even studied this kind of thing.
No, I think it's too easy to say that 'everything is subjective'. I agree that many things are completely subjective, but the writing can be held to certain standards that you might find in textbooks. There are dos and don'ts. Not going to put them all on a comprehensive list, though. I'm not a screenwriter.

As for DMC4, I thought it did well, so I don't share your opinion on that. Nero was the more serious character, Dante was the one who provided comic relief (along with some minor characters like Agnus). There were various layers to DMC4, which made it work, IMO.

Anyway, isn't this off-topic?

 

[Loopy]

Not everything is subjective. I think there are certainly guidelines as to what constitutes 'good' writing. If there weren't, then official reviewers would be completely unneeded.

But, saying that not everything is subjective relies on the assumption that everyone agrees that not everything is subjective, which denies subjectivity when stating not everything is subjective, which could be a false statement depending on who is asked because each individual uses their own subjectivity to judge that statement either right or wrong. Therefore, even a statement like that is opinion and not fact.

This does not mean there are no facts, or objective points. But even facts are subjectively perceived.
Two people can play the same game and how they experience it and rate it could be radically different.
I think the reason we stress subjectivity in modern society is that we're beginning to realise absolutes are thin and far between. We also realise, due to advances in medicine, psychology, and other sciences, that many phenomena are merely subject to how an individual perceives it.

While it could be that all meaning is subjective meaning, that does not mean that all views, all opinions could be considered equal. With our experience of the world as object, we form through the processes of understanding, meaning or meanings for that experience which we then bestow upon the world and all its objects. So, the judgement of experience as meaning is relative to an object of the kind which gave us that experience in the first place; if it is experienced differently when re-experienced, then this acts as a feedback loop to govern our thinking and our actions.

People are smart enough to know from our evolutionary history as well as through our social conditioning that certain beliefs lead to certain actions some good and some bad. When we check the experience of the object or situation once again--that feedback loop, its a reality check. The same process must affirm or deny the multitude of views and opinions, but as long as your biology keeps giving you the same experience about the same object, you will trust in it in a greater degree than second hand informational knowledge acquired from other means and entities, eg, reviewers.

Does everyone know what these criteria are for good writing? Does everyone hold these criteria to be correct? No. Therefore, even criteria for judging good or bad writing is subjective.
Even the notion of what is good and bad is subjective. As Shakespeare says in Hamlet: 'there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so'.

It all comes down to personal preference, beliefs, and therefore, subjectivity.
Reviewers have different standards, preferences and opinions. They do not adhere to one set standard of what constitutes good and bad writing. That's why there are reviews that give widely different opinions on movies, books, musicals and games. There is not one opinion that is correct, even amongst professional reviewers. If that was the case, reviews might as well not exist because their sameness would render them worthless.

Never mind that professional reviewers are a fairly modern invention. Before that, people just went with their own opinion of what they liked and disliked, what was good and bad, instead of following a reviewer and agreeing with their opinion like a sheep, or disagreeing with them using their own subjectivity. Who can say that the average person is no more wrong or right than the reviewer because their perceptions are radically different based on their own criteria formed through individual experience? Again, it's down to subjective and personal opinion.

What separates reviewers from regular people is that they are being paid, and that they landed that job at all could be nothing more than a lucky break or connections. In the end, all they are doing is giving their opinion, it is not fact unless someone makes up their mind to believe it is.
Aside from that, people are also of the opinion that reviewers these days are no more than paid off and bribed hacks, told what to say to help promotion. But again, belief in that is subjective.

Anyway, I'm starting to think this belonged in the ranting thread...not that it's a rant- rant, but it's pretty darn long. Aaaaand, I'm done and out. :tongue:

Ah, I see what you mean, now. Yeah, considering DmC got better coverage, you'd think they would have exceeded DMC3's sales...but then again, the coverage was a veritable mixed bag of reactions, so perhaps that's why the sales are still as tentative as they are.

Nope, I don't think that coverage wold have helped one bit considering the backlash due to various comments made and that presentation that went completely out of control online. People are going to have their opinions and go with them, no matter if a reviewer gives the game a top score.

DmC got a few good scores, but the comments sections on those reviews were littered with insults for the reviewer and reasons why they were wrong. It just didn't work out in the way NT and Capcom hoped.

Besides, selling what they have is nothing to turn the nose up at, but compared to the really high sales of COD and others, they wanted DmC to compete with that, and when it didn't, the game was seen as a failure. But, it is unrealistic to expect a game with a modest following to get the sales of games like COD and Assassin's creed which have a huge fanbase.

In the eyes on investors and game makers, this was a fail and maybe won't see a sequel because it just didn't make the money they wanted. It's all about sales and profits, anything less is a failure in their eyes.

Fair enough, they need to make their money back, so I can see where they're coming from. But on the other hand, so much money shouldn't be spent on making games if the result is a mad scramble to make the money back, plus a huge profit. It just seems pretty backwards to me, even if this is how the world works today.