DmC's wasted potential

[BestUsernameEver]

*Sorry for any grammar mistake, misspelling, etc. English isn't my native language.

I was reading some threads here (Most of them ended in stupid discussions, but anyway) about old artworks and concepts for DmC and how it evolved since then. For example, Dante smoking cigarettes.

And then I started to think about how low is the storytelling and character development compared to what it could have been, I mean, in the first trailers Dante appeared as a kind of tortured and stressed person, that acted how he acted as a relief to his unsatisfying life, and in the final product he still does, but it isn't showed in an explicit way, I think that's why some people say that he's just a douche, when really they just don't understand his backstory. The same happens with Kat and Vergil (I think there's a comic about Vergil's past or something but I don't know much about it), Vergil just appears as the leader of The Order, they don't tell us much about how he is and why he is like that. Also Kat's backstory seemed like something interesting too, but it wasn't used at all in the game, I got annoyed of hearing her talk about her nightmares and not being told at any point of the game what exactly that was, she sort of mentions it but it's for less than a minute and can be interpreted in many ways.
I think that pointing out and making noticeable the background of the character would make them more likeable, human and interesting, also it would give them a chance to make a more deep character development.

The world of the game itself isn't advantaged at all; The Order, Limbo, the story of angels and demons, the extermination of nephilim, Mundus and demons manipulating media, what happened to Eva and Sparda, Phineas and his relationship with Sparda. All this topics are used in the game at some point (Probably I even missed some), but aren't exploited in any way, they have so much potential for a complete and appealing story. As some users said in other thread, we are working with The Order but we don't get to know or even talk to any members other than Kat and Vergil.
I don't know if they got rid of those topics because of time, because the pressure of stupid fanboys or what, but it's definitely a lot of wasted potential.

I know DMC's strong point is gameplay and not story, but taking care of the story was one of the reasons of developing a reboot to the series, so I guess a strong storyline would be greatly appreciated by gamers.

What do you think of this? You think the plot of the game is good how it is or that they could have given more attention and detail to it?

 

[Dante47]

Capcom and the fans pushed the game into what it is now.
Had Ninja Theory been given full control, I'm sure a stronger narrative would have emerged.

 

[Chancey289]

I think because Capcom wanted to have the game out faster Ninja Theory was asked to cut some corners. Based on the developer diaries it looks like they had a lot of ideas that were scrapped. Hell the early concept art made the game look very different than what it is now. Devil May Cry never had good writing or stories and this series really needs some people with some real cred on board. I would love it if someone like Neil Gaimen wrote a Devil May Cry plot. That's never going to happen though.

 

[V's patron]

^i'm sure we could find other comic writers who would do a good job too. hell DC bought the rights to do a DMC comic a few years ago so maybe you can reforge that connection? And Marvel has a lot of writers that feel like a good fit for DMC.

I feel it is hard to judge how free NT would be given they are working on a IP they didnt create so making it a new iP might have been better but capcom still might have been restrictive.

 

[Dante's Stalker]

What do you think of this? You think the plot of the game is good how it is or that they could have given more attention and detail to it?

I think they've given it a lot more thought than Capcom have in the past.
Lots of lose ends floating around, sure.
You do that when you're planning on a sequel.

 

[Stylish Nero]

I think because Capcom wanted to have the game out faster Ninja Theory was asked to cut some corners. Based on the developer diaries it looks like they had a lot of ideas that were scrapped. Hell the early concept art made the game look very different than what it is now. Devil May Cry never had good writing or stories and this series really needs some people with some real cred on board. I would love it if someone like Neil Gaimen wrote a Devil May Cry plot. That's never going to happen though.

Get the game out early?!?!?

They literally spent 4 F*CKING YEARS making this game. The longest development cycle of any DMC game hell any Capcom game most likely.

NT themselves admit spending a year just getting the right design for Dante (well the one Capcom would approve) as well as other design and art aspects.

 

[Cabbage Detective]

i just hate it when they remove things from games i bet the early ver. of DmC was alot interesting than this one

 

[LysseC]

I think they've given it a lot more thought than Capcom have in the past.
Lots of lose ends floating around, sure.
You do that when you're planning on a sequel.

Let's hope so!
However, I think that if there is some wasted potential, it's not in regards of the character's backgrounds. Dante's backstory's is well described, and if you listen to him talking with Kat in the Virility factory you can really start to relate to him. Maybe we are not directly shown the worst moments of his past, but they still can be inferred.
As for Kat's nightmares, they are explained in the cutscene that follows the Succubus' death, when Dante and her talk in the car. She says that what she called nightmares were his foster father (who was in actuality a demon) attacking her, and her escaping to Limbo.
Vergil's past,if anything, is the most obscure: we are not told anything about his foster family, nor about how he regained his memories.

If I have to point out a missing piece, I'd more likely refer to the nearly total absence of angels in the story (I already made a thread about this, so I'm not going to repeat all my reasoning here, so as not to bore people again), a fact that really impaired the great twist in lore NT made with the reboot. But, as Dante's Stalker already pointed out, this could call for a sequel.

 

[Loopy]

I think for me what was a missed chance was the idea from the 2010 trailer with Dante being interrogated and seeming confused...plus the hint that he'd had something done to his mind. I would have liked to see that. And judging from the concept art for The Order in the game, it seems like that was the place Dante was going to be held. It had all the hospital tables and holding rooms....and there's the image of Vergil with blood on his gloves.

The world of the game itself isn't advantaged at all; The Order, Limbo, the story of angels and demons, the extermination of nephilim, Mundus and demons manipulating media, what happened to Eva and Sparda, Phineas and his relationship with Sparda. All this topics are used in the game at some point (Probably I even missed some), but aren't exploited in any way, they have so much potential for a complete and appealing story. As some users said in other thread, we are working with The Order but we don't get to know or even talk to any members other than Kat and Vergil.
I don't know if they got rid of those topics because of time, because the pressure of stupid fanboys or what, but it's definitely a lot of wasted potential.

If you look at the subtitles section of the PC game, you'll see there are a lot of scenes that were cut, but there are still subtitles for. I'm assuming they recorded these lines because the subtitles were there...and if that's the case, then these bits were going to be in the game till they were cut towards the end of production.
There is a scene where I think it's Eva and Sparda taking to Dante...also one with more about Assiel the Nephilim.

 

[Alittleacorn]

*Sorry for any grammar mistake, misspelling, etc. English isn't my native language.

I was reading some threads here (Most of them ended in stupid discussions, but anyway) about old artworks and concepts for DmC and how it evolved since then. For example, Dante smoking cigarettes.

And then I started to think about how low is the storytelling and character development compared to what it could have been, I mean, in the first trailers Dante appeared as a kind of tortured and stressed person, that acted how he acted as a relief to his unsatisfying life, and in the final product he still does, but it isn't showed in an explicit way, I think that's why some people say that he's just a douche, when really they just don't understand his backstory. The same happens with Kat and Vergil (I think there's a comic about Vergil's past or something but I don't know much about it), Vergil just appears as the leader of The Order, they don't tell us much about how he is and why he is like that. Also Kat's backstory seemed like something interesting too, but it wasn't used at all in the game, I got annoyed of hearing her talk about her nightmares and not being told at any point of the game what exactly that was, she sort of mentions it but it's for less than a minute and can be interpreted in many ways.
I think that pointing out and making noticeable the background of the character would make them more likeable, human and interesting, also it would give them a chance to make a more deep character development.

The world of the game itself isn't advantaged at all; The Order, Limbo, the story of angels and demons, the extermination of nephilim, Mundus and demons manipulating media, what happened to Eva and Sparda, Phineas and his relationship with Sparda. All this topics are used in the game at some point (Probably I even missed some), but aren't exploited in any way, they have so much potential for a complete and appealing story. As some users said in other thread, we are working with The Order but we don't get to know or even talk to any members other than Kat and Vergil.
I don't know if they got rid of those topics because of time, because the pressure of stupid fanboys or what, but it's definitely a lot of wasted potential.

I know DMC's strong point is gameplay and not story, but taking care of the story was one of the reasons of developing a reboot to the series, so I guess a strong storyline would be greatly appreciated by gamers.

What do you think of this? You think the plot of the game is good how it is or that they could have given more attention and detail to it?

I can agree with everything you said. There was some potential that did feel like it got wasted. After all this controversy about Dante and being told about his backstory in interviews, we don't see very much of it. [When Dante said in one mission once "never thought I'd be breaking into jail" I really wanted to know more about this. Maybe it's potential for a DLC, but honestly I think Dante's backstory should've been covered more in the opening sequence, rather than focus on Mundus and Lilith. I really miss that lquote, something along the lines of "There are demons everywhere in every part of sociality in every corner of the world" from one of the early trailers, because that would've been a really good opening line to the game. And I because of how dark it was, I really, REALLY wanted to that scene where he was chained up or if you played that younger Dante busting out of jail as a tutorial .

And it is the same with Vergil. If you exclude the comic, we don't know that much about Vergil other than what we were told prior [grew up with wealthy parents, got richer from making some anti hacking thingy] and the brief explaination that hacking was his release. As for Kat, well...I don't mind that they alluded what happened with her with her foster father [although it's easy to figure out what did happen] same as how Alice Madness Returns alluded what happened to Alice's older sister, but I do feel it could've played into the plot a bit more, or that we saw her and Vergil meet for the first time. But I completely agree with the members of The Order, to have seen Dante or the other two interact with the others in headquarters would've made it more shocking result when you did see them get killed later on.

With Phineas I wouldn't have minded there being a 'I knew your parents' talk between him and Dante, and hearing a bit more of the aftermath of what happened in the real world [like say when Dante took out Succbus, Bob or him attacking the demons in the club, what did the humans see] and how the media portrayed that. Although I wasn't too bothered by the lack of angels in the plot or Sparda, because it does seem like they're setting things up on those for the future, what with Sparda still being alive to even with the Dante and Vergil's amulets being present but their true purpose not revealed. However an explaination to how Mundus only knew of only one child, how Dante escaped, where Sparda was and why Eva died [I got sad when I found out Eva wasn't fighter in Vergil's Downfall. I mean really! I imagine her as a strong kickass mother, using the osiris and defending her child, and it was just let down for me! :'(]

I'm not saying the story is bad by any means [I did enjoy it a lot] but when you do think about what more could've become of it, I completely agree that attention to detail could've definitely added something extra and given it that little boost.

 

[GF9000000Returns]

[I got sad when I found out Eva wasn't fighter in Vergil's Downfall. I mean really! I imagine her as a strong kickass mother, using the osiris and defending her child, and it was just let down for me! :'(]

*shrugs* Eva was a defenseless woman in the original games too, unless you mean by making this Eva different from the other one by fighting, then I would agree on that.


Anyway for this thread, I also agree. There were things like the anthropomorphic mole and that talking head that gives you the angel boost that were scrapped out. Even a freaking boxing match! If that involved Dante using the Eryx to fight a demon there, it would've been perfect, but NOOOO! But on the other hand they could save some of the scrapped parts for the sequel. Coming to think of it, Capcom and NT DOES care a little too much about what the old fans and antis have to say, that's why I (and I know some supporters) want them to stray away from the originals as far as possible. It can still have its original touch but goddammit, it's an alternate universe, so of course things are supposed to be different. Dante doesn't have to be a happy jokester like in the original (basically DMC4). I'll admit, I was stunned when I first saw this Dante smoke but when I thought about that a year after, it gives him a unique trait.

If anything, it's just the controls that needs to have a DMC feeling then we're all set, no more riots! NT did a good job with that, it's just a guard button they forgot to put in.

 

[Domenic93]

*shrugs* Eva was a defenseless woman in the original games too, unless you mean by making this Eva different from the other one by fighting, then I would agree on that.


Anyway for this thread, I also agree. There were things like the anthropomorphic mole and that talking head that gives you the angel boost that were scrapped out. Even a freaking boxing match! If that involved Dante using the Eryx to fight a demon there, it would've been perfect, but NOOOO! But on the other hand they could save some of the scrapped parts for the sequel. Coming to think of it, Capcom and NT DOES care a little too much about what the old fans and antis have to say, that's why I (and I know some supporters) want them to stray away from the originals as far as possible. It can still have its original touch but goddammit, it's an alternate universe, so of course things are supposed to be different. Dante doesn't have to be a happy jokester like in the original (basically DMC4). I'll admit, I was stunned when I first saw this Dante smoke but when I thought about that a year after, it gives him a unique trait.

If anything, it's just the controls that needs to have a DMC feeling then we're all set, no more riots! NT did a good job with that, it's just a guard button they forgot to put in.

no Eva in the original wasn't an ordinary human she was an Umbran witch:troll: . and this ran away screaming yelling "GET AWAY FROM ME!"

 

[Demi-fiend]

Capcom and NT DOES care a little too much about what the old fans and antis have to say.

That's a label. We skeptics are greatly offended by your discrimination!

 

[Alittleacorn]

*shrugs* Eva was a defenseless woman in the original games too, unless you mean by making this Eva different from the other one by fighting, then I would agree on that.

Yeah that's I mean, having her fight ^^ just the way you got the Osiris led me to assume it belonged to Eva, and that maybe she used it. But then you never know if the reason she was in trouble in Vergil's Downfall was because she had no weapons on her. I'd still like to think she was a fighter, much like how Trish is.

That's a label. We skeptics are greatly offended by your discrimination!

Don't start a fight when one wasn't being picked. And don't address a group by saying 'we' when you are speaking for yourself, unless you have a number of people using your account or discussed the matter with a large number of people.

 

[Chancey289]

Get the game out early?!?!?

They literally spent 4 F*CKING YEARS making this game. The longest development cycle of any DMC game hell any Capcom game most likely.

NT themselves admit spending a year just getting the right design for Dante (well the one Capcom would approve) as well as other design and art aspects.

And there was still a lot of stuff that was still cut from the final product. If you look at the time that separate all the titles the actual development of DmC took place within a span of 2 and a half years. Early time was spent looking for a new developer and that doesn't come overnight. Capcom hopped to quite a few developers before settling on NT. At least NT didn't cop out like the DMC 4 developers did when they just programmed half a game and then copy and pasted the work they did so far to make it longer. If you listen closely you hear Capcom's DMC team saying "F*ck it that'll do. People are stupid and will buy this dumb sh!t anyway."

 

[Cabbage Detective]

Don't start a fight when one wasn't being picked. And don't address a group by saying 'we' when you are speaking for yourself, unless you have a number of people using your account or discussed the matter with a large number of people.

i am pretty sure he was joking...right? RIGHT?

 

[TWOxACROSS]

Get the game out early?!?!?

They literally spent 4 F*CKING YEARS making this game. The longest development cycle of any DMC game hell any Capcom game most likely.

NT themselves admit spending a year just getting the right design for Dante (well the one Capcom would approve) as well as other design and art aspects.

Do remember that they Capcom sent them back to the drawing board early on several times to change things; "this Dante looks too much like the classic - change it," "This is much too dark and gritty - lighten it up a bit," "This is much too violent - get rid of it."

We've gotten way to comfortable with how every friggin' franchise blasts a half-finished psuedo-DLC-turned-game out the door every year nowadays. Most current-gen games actually take about three to four years to make, with usually an entire year built around just conceptual design and other stuff that goes on before we even know the game is being made. Add onto this the fact that Capcom handed down a lot of changes which puts more time into development, and that demos were available at a lot of showfloors, which halts development of the full game so they can make a segregated demo build. They really wanted people to be able to get their hands on it and try it out to solidify an opinion. If they hadn't gone convention demo crazy, we might have had DmC by late 2012

 

[788Masri]

Yeah that's I mean, having her fight ^^ just the way you got the Osiris led me to assume it belonged to Eva, and that maybe she used it. But then you never know if the reason she was in trouble in Vergil's Downfall was because she had no weapons on her. I'd still like to think she was a fighter, much like how Trish is.

i think the Eva in Vergils downfall was nothing more than Vergils perception of her. the same way he saw a fake Dante who had the attitude of regular Dante x5 and a very bitchy and self centered Kat. the reason theyre like this is because thats how Vergil see's them. he only knew Eva as a loving mother who in the end became a victem but if you think about it she couldnt be defenseless and bought enough time against mundus to allow Sparda, Dante and Vergil to escape.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

i think the Eva in Vergils downfall was nothing more than Vergils perception of her. the same way he saw a fake Dante who had the attitude of regular Dante x5 and a very bitchy and self centered Kat. the reason theyre like this is because thats how Vergil see's them. he only knew Eva as a loving mother who in the end became a victem but if you think about it she couldnt be defenseless and bought enough time against mundus to allow Sparda, Dante and Vergil to escape.

This is literally how I saw it, too. The "hollows" weren't exactly proper depictions of the characters, but either the way Vergil saw people, or explicitly Hollow Vergil messing with his head, to the point where he perceived them that way.

 

[788Masri]

This is literally how I saw it, too. The "hollows" weren't exactly proper depictions of the characters, but either the way Vergil saw people, or explicitly Hollow Vergil messing with his head, to the point where he perceived them that way.

hollow Vergil i think was the manifestation of Vergils darker emotions that he bottled up. it is jealous, angry and proud. when Vergil out evils it he becomes the monster we all know and love