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DMC VS DmC - Being a fan... (Long top post)

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Asmodaius

Well-known Member
This is taking Angel's question in regard in the thread about Parallel Universes:

First: How are people within this thread defining the word "fan" when they respond? Just to get some idea of why there may be such volatile responses - if we're not all meaning the same thing then that could be the cause of some of the friction perhaps?

Second: Why can someone not like two games equally which are similar (within the context of what CoolDemon means by similar)?

I have been a fan of Devil May Cry since I first bought the first game and played it. The action, the story, the gameplay, and of course the characters. I am one of the minority who thinks DMC2 is the better game, leaner graphics and gameplay, Dante's appearance is the best in that game and I simply adore Lucia, being a big fan of ninja/assassin inspired characters. DMC3 offered with alot of new stuff to the gameplay, much of it seeming unnecessary and sometimes even confusing, but it's the game with the best story so far, in my opinion.

My fangasm was put to a halt with DMC4. I do like the story, the graphics are nice, but the gameplay was boring and I really dislike how Nero just looks like a younger Dante. Though the story is quite nice, it really leaves alot of questions to be answered, such as Nero's origins etc.. The story just seemed out of place.

I am a supporter of the new DmC. I like the new Dante's looks and the ideas of the living demonic world which interact within the gameplay. Also, I am a fan of Ninja Theory's way of telling some great stories through videogames, finding Heavenly Sword and Enslaved to be quite good, even if the gameplay isn't life-changing or anything, however, they have some stable gameplay. To me, the story of a game is a big part of what grabs my interest of a videogame. It is my first priority. Second is gameplay, third is graphics... As long the story catches my attention, the ladder two don't have to be amazing. Of course bad gameplay can ruin it for me, so it at least have to be stable and playable gameplay.

As I have mentioned in another thread, I understand Capcom's decision by giving Devil May Cry an overhaul with this new DmC. And because I like what I have seen so far, I support it.

THAT DOES NOT MEAN I DO NOT LIKE THE ORIGINAL SERIES!
I am getting the HD collection just so I can play through them again!

With all that in mind, now to the questions that Angel asked.
To me, a fan is someone who sticks to what they like. It doesn't matter if it is videogames, music, books... To be a fan is to like something with a certain passion, not to be confused with a fanatic who almost has a sick relationship to something. For example, a Michael Jackson fan is someone who loved his music and what he did in life and of course is saddened by his death - a fanatic is someone who thinks his/her life ended the day MJ died, and then commits suicide because the fan has lost his/her reason to live.

I am not fanatic about Devil May Cry. I can look past the appearance changes that Dante's been through. I can look past the fact that he is now a half-demon/-angel. I can look past that DmC has no direct connection to the original series. If the game has a great story and some nice gameplay, then I will probably become a fan of that game as I am a fan of the original series.

But also as a fan, I can see the negative things of the videogame. As said, I am not a fanatic - I don't have to totally love EVERYTHING about the games to be a fan. For example, that Dante more or less was invincible in the original series annoyed me. He is half a demon, but he is also half a human, however, the human traits were severely lacking which could at times make him unrelatable and a rather one-dimensional character. It was the rare moments when he actually showed his humanity that made me like him.

In DmC, Dante doesn't seem to have any humanity in him, being a mix of divine and demonic heritage, yet from what we saw from the first trailer, he was weak, he was vulnerable, he could feel pain, he has a weakness and what appears to be an addiction to smoking... He is ALOT more relatable now, alot more human than he's ever been before. And I see that as a positive sign.

Storyline wise, we haven't been exposed much of it, other than Dante seems to have been summoned to Limbo City by someone, possibly the hooded girl we've seen in some trailers, and that the city appears to be a living, demonic entity in itself... That's it. I am expecting much from NT in the story department though, so I really hope they won't disappoint me.

The graphics look nice and the gameplay looks interesting... If it goes on 30fps instead of 60fps doesn't really mean much to me. I have to try the game before I can judge if the gameplay is good or not. I can only say that from what we have seen in trailers that the gameplay looks cool. I just wish the scythe would be demonic instead of angelic though, as I tend to lean more to the dark side, but still, the fact that Dante can wield a scythe in this game thrills me - the scythe is one of my favourite weapons of choice in videogames.

I wouldn't say I am a fan of DmC though. Yes, I am being positive and supportive of the game, but I haven't tried it yet. I know only as much as the rest of you, and it is far from enough to make me form a final opinion about it. I just like what I have seen so far which is why I am staying positive.

However, I am outraged when someone tells me I cannot like both games. It's like saying that if I like Bayonetta, a game similar to Devil May Cry, then I must dislike DMC. It's like saying that if I like Heavenly Sword, then I must dislike God of War, as those two games also have quite similar gameplay. It's like saying that if I like Mortal Kombat, then I must dislike Street Fighter...

I'm a videogame fan. I like videogames, preferable Action/Adventure, RPG's and fighting games. And I can be a fan of several titles. As I said above, a fan doesn't have to love EVERYTHING about a game to be a fan of that game. To me, that is on the border of being fanatic. And in my eyes, many of the raging fans seem rather fanatic to me.

There are some sceptics of DmC who have earned my respect on this board who have shown me their point of view, have explained their opinions and why they have such opinions without ultimately judging the game. They are sceptics and with good reason. Alot of changes are coming along with DmC, changes they deem unnecessary, but they have still shown respect and understanding towards supporters like me. And they are just as much fans of Devil May Cry as I am, we are just on each side of the spectrum.

One point I have yet to mention: the hardcore fan. I see a hardcore fan to be one who follows every aspect of the game. I'm a more casual fan, as I only follow the games where a hardcore fan also likes the animé, the books, the comics, the toys, the collectibles. Being a hardcore fan means to have a deep passion for something WITHOUT being fanatic about it.

Taking Michael Jackson as an example once more - where a casual fan buys his music, a hardcore fan also buys the merchandise, goes to his concerts, buys his biography etc., and the hardcore fans were those who cried their eyes out when he died, but knew life would go on and are now honouring his memory. It is dedication without being extreme.

As a last note... I don't believe in anything called a "true fan". Calling yourself a true fan is putting yourself on a piedestal, looking down on others and seeing yourself as better than other "lesser" fans. That is just plain arrogance and ego-tripping, in my opinion.

I hope that gave a clear vision on how I percieve things about Devil May Cry in general and what being a fan means to me. ^^
 

Tony_Redgrave

TimeLord Detective
Moderator
Okay, here's my response about Fans, from the previous thread - which I hope returns to being a thread about the Parallel universe thing - so we can all continue the stuff about what a Fan is here:)

So ok then: In this post I tried to say, what a fan is, at least in my own opinion. I did try to make it kinda from a objective point of you, but as being 100% objective is impossible, a few subjective hints are definitely there. With that said:

First of all, the word that started all this, Fan: A fan, sometimes also called aficionado or supporter, is a person with a liking and enthusiasm for something, such as a band or a sports team. Fans of a particular thing or person constitute its fanbase or fandom. They may show their enthusiasm by being a member of a fan-club, holding fan conversations, creating fanzines writing fan-mail or by promoting the object of their interest and attention. (info taken by wikipedia)

So, where does that lead us? We all here are members of a Devil May Cry Forum - in other words a fan club. In this forum we have fan conversations, we post our fan-fictions and fan-art. The mere existance of this forum, helps to promote the whole franchise of the world of Devil May Cry and everything associated with it. That includes games, books, novels, movies, figurines, anime, manga and everything related with that world. ANYTHING. Therefore, what does that make us according to wikipedia? Fans. Yes, we are all fans according to the (somewhat) official definition of the word fan.

However, is it that simple? No. Fans may like the same thing but for completely different reasons. Since it is a large franchise concisting of a large number of stuff, it is rather impossible for everyone to like all of them. Every book/novel/etc. gives off a different feeling because it was (excluding all the obvious differences like how different a book is to a game, and what does it give to each of us etc.), written/directed/etc. by different people and therefore it has some differences. As each new thing, can't completely produce the exact same feelings, that the original produced, but only a part of them with a mix of new stuff, it is natural, that each new part of the franchise whether it's a new game or a new book, will satisfy some fans, upset some other fans and also produce some new fans. Are we ok up until now? I hope yes:)

Conclusion: Each part of the franchise has its own number of fans. Some of those people like every different, tiny, little part of the franchise, others only like one. But, all of them remain Devil May Cry fans in their own way.

DmC, IS a part of the Devil May Cry franchise. It is almost completely different than the previous games, it has a new world, a new backstory and new characters. But it's called Devil May Cry as well. Whether it's a reboot/a story in a parallel universe/a story in the same universe with some other Dante/or whatever, it is still a part of the franchise. If one is a Fan of the old games is not a fan of the new game(s), does that mean he is not a fan of the Devil May Cry franchise? No. Why? Because as I said before -> "As each new thing, can't completely produce the exact same feelings, that the original produced, but only a part of them with a mix of new stuff, it is natural, that each new part of the franchise whether it's a new game or a new book, will satisfy some fans, upset some other fans and also produce some new fans."
EXACTLY the same goes for any variation of the word Fan.
If someone only likes Devil May Cry because he/she read one of the novels, does that make her/him less of a Fan? No.
If someone likes the new DmC does that mean he cannot like/be a fan the other parts of the franchise? No.

We are people. We all have opinions. Each of us is different. Same for our opinions. And same for our decisions. Fan is something we decide for ourselves to be. Something that we proclaim therefore we are. No one else can decide what we are, no one else can label us - and even if she or he does, it does not matter. We are who we are, and we decide what we want to be. If I say I'm a fan of Batman, then I'm a fan of Batman. Does that mean I can't be a fan of Robin? Or of other versions of Batman? No. It only means what I said. I'm a Batman-fan, simple as that. If someone knows more about Batman than me does that make him more of a fan? No. Being a fan cannot be measured. We just are or aren't. And we are the ones to decide that. No one else.
 

CoolDemon

X will never be Y
Tell me Asmo are you a Ninja theory fan first and foremost or a DMC fan?

You say that you like stories and that it´s what you want to be prioritized in a game. That´s just how Ninja theory´s philosphy is.

More important how is it that your a fan of Ninja theory but not Platinum Games?

Hideki Kamiyas DMC 1 was intense with story. And you know what Platinum Games said? They said that they would accept DMC assignment if Capcom came to them.

The same rules of real life applies to being a fan. In real life we choose to hang out with friends we like most. Or to take interest in things we like the most. And teachers may not say it but i bet they favourites a particular student more than others.

So are you a DMC fan or are you a Ninja theory fan? Which would you side with?

If your a DMC fan then how come you haven´t paid attention to the fact that Platinum Games the creator of DMC and the one that made DMC story nice (story that you like) wanted to make the next DMC?
 

CoolDemon

X will never be Y
There is no need to choose because he can like both. There is no restrictions.

But in a situation where he had to choose one of them which would he chose? DMC or Ninja theory?

Asmo says he likes story games and that story matters more than gameplay. That´s how Ninja theory are. So with that said if a situation where he had to choose between being a fan of DMC or Ninja theory he would probably pick Ninja theory.
 

Asmodaius

Well-known Member
I am not something first and foremost. You're not going to make me choose sides... in all honesty, I find it rather immature that you are even asking me such. I am a fan of both. Fan of Ninja Theory's philosophy about storytelling in videogames. Fan of Devil May Cry's storyline and gameplay. It's not a hierachy to me. I don't have a list where I put the things I like best on top and the things I like less in the bottom. As said, I am a fan of both. The fact that the two things I like are now merging together - Ninja Theory co-working with Capcom with making DmC - is just great. ^^

I have only tried Bayonetta made by Platinum games, and mostly because the gameplay is like DMC's. And I liked the game, however, I not enough for me to be a fan of it. And definately not enough for me to become a fan of Platinum Games. I don't care if Hideki Kamiya is part of the team. Yeah, he made Devil May Cry... Cool... but I care more about the product than those who make it.

Platinum Games might have stated they would love to co-work with Capcom in making the next game... But Capcom chose not to do that. There's probably a reason for that. I do not know what that reason is, but either way, Capcom chose to ask Ninja Theory for help. And that's how it is now.
 

CoolDemon

X will never be Y
You find me being immature because i asked you hypothetical question? I find that weird but ok.

Let me rephrase. You are fan of both DMC and Ninja theory, but which one are you more interested in? Ninja theory or DMC? Because being a fan like Angel said is taken an active interest in something.
 

Asmodaius

Well-known Member
You find me being immature because i asked you hypothetical question? I find that weird but ok.

Let me rephrase. You are fan of both DMC and Ninja theory, but which one are you more interested in? Ninja theory or DMC? Because being a fan like Angel said is taken an active interest in something.

I already said you aren't going to make me choose. So please, stop asking. You won't get an answer other than the one I stated above.
 

ToCool74

"Fair" DmC Skeptic
Premium
I don't think its unreasonable for him to ask which you like better Asmo.

True you do not have to answer.

But calling him immature for asking such a question seems ridiculous to me. Its like if someone asks if you like chocolate ice cream or vanilla ice cream better. Your not going to call that person immature now are you? I think any reasonable person would simply just answer the question. But than again, you have the right not to answer it obviously.

ONTOPIC

To me being a fan is being someone who enjoys the series in question regardless of its faults. Being a fan means that even if the series has problems you will hope for the best and stick with it. You won't just give up on it in favor of something sleek and new. You never EVER forget where the series came from and always show respect for it regardless of how boring or confusing it has become over the years.
 

Asmodaius

Well-known Member
I already did answer. I don't prefer one over the other. Wether he accepts that as an answer or not isn't my problem. As said, I like both.
 

ToCool74

"Fair" DmC Skeptic
Premium
I don't prefer one over the other.

Fair enough.

I must have missed that part of your post lol.

Its the same with me, I don't prefer the movie 300 over the movie Troy. I like both of them equally and always tell my friends that lol.
 

Asmodaius

Well-known Member
Fair enough.

I must have missed that part of your post lol.

Its the same with me, I don't prefer the movie 300 over the movie Troy. I like both of them equally and always tell my friends that lol.

Exactly! ^^

Oh, and the reason I find it immature is because I don't like to play the whole "What if.." game. Hypothetical questions are unnecessary, in my opinion. If someone indeed asked me if I liked chocolate or vanilla icecream better, I'd most typically answer "I like banana best." or "I like it when I mix the two together." XP
 

chocolateghost79

First of the Dead
Premium
Exactly! ^^

Oh, and the reason I find it immature is because I don't like to play the whole "What if.." game. Hypothetical questions are unnecessary, in my opinion. If someone indeed asked me if I liked chocolate or vanilla icecream better, I'd most typically answer "I like banana best." or "I like it when I mix the two together." XP
why you no like chocolate better? :) jk
 

CoolDemon

X will never be Y
Exactly! ^^

Oh, and the reason I find it immature is because I don't like to play the whole "What if.." game. Hypothetical questions are unnecessary, in my opinion. If someone indeed asked me if I liked chocolate or vanilla icecream better, I'd most typically answer "I like banana best." or "I like it when I mix the two together." XP
It's not a what if. It's making a point..
If you answered the question i asked you would see why i asked.
 

Asmodaius

Well-known Member
why you no like chocolate better? :) jk

Depends... can I lick it off this guy?

dantedmcredesign.jpg


;P

It's not a what if. It's making a point...

And what point would that be? I don't need to prove anything to you.
Maybe instead of poking me with your questions, you could focus on the main topic of this thread.
You could state what your definition of a fan is.
 

CoolDemon

X will never be Y
Well a fan to me is pretty much the same thing. But i believe that we're a lesser fan of something and greater to something else. And we can stop being a fan of something.

And the main topic is about being a fan. And my what i was gonna point out is about that, but you didn't answer my question so yeah.
 

Asmodaius

Well-known Member
Well a fan to me is pretty much the same thing. But i believe that we're a lesser fan of something and greater to something else.

And the main topic is about being a fan. And my what i was gonna point out is about that, but you didn't answer my question so yeah.

Well, as said... I'm a fan of both. Not going to choose between them. Sorry.
 

cheezMcNASTY

Entertain me.
Premium
A fan - someone who likes one or several works of the same series.

Example: A fan of the Halo series. Likes every Halo game (give or take Halo Wars) from Combat Evolved through Reach.

Example: A fan of Halo: Combat Evolved and Halo 2, but not the later releases

I consider a fan different from a fanboy/fangirl. Fanboyism is liking beyond obsession and hating everything that competes with it because of fear that it would make what you like less than perfect. It's being a fan in the fanatic sense of the word. It doesn't make you more or less of a fan nor does it bring any extra entitlement; it's just a higher degree of personal obsession.

Example: I used to be a Halo fanboy. I hated Call of Duty games because it was the other mainstream first person shooter. Now that I've backed off my fanboy obsession I admit that both games are good and both games have their flaws. Neither is terrible but I am still not a fan of realistic shooters.
 

Asmodaius

Well-known Member
Neither is terrible but I am still not a fan of realistic shooters.

Well, that's just your personal preference in gaming. There's nothing wrong with that. ^^

Fanboyism is another extremity I dislike. It's not as far as a fanatic, but it's still unbearable,
Glad to hear you have recovered. ;P
 

Meg

Well-known Member
Moderator
I find it fascinating how the same word can mean different things from person to person. Like how "pants" in America means jeans, khakis, and such, but in England it means the thing you wear under your jeans, etc and "trousers" are outer leg wear.

There is also different ways to say carbonated beverage. Where I live its soda, but if you go out near Pittsburgh its pop.

There's also debate as to what "hooked up" means, but that's not a family topic. ;)

Its no different than with what a "fan" and "fanboy/girl" and "fanatic" are. To mean a fan is someone who enjoys something enough to recommend it and looks forward to the next installment. For instance, I love Christina Perri's music and she seems like a really sweet person. I look forward to seeing what new music will come in the future and wish her the best. I'm a fan of her.

Now a fanboy/girl, to me, a passionate fan of something. Passion is key here. I love Lightning for multiple reasons. I have a deep compassionate (type of love that is not intimate) love for her. I can get defensive if I think people are saying things that are wrong about her. I'm a fangirl.

A fanatic is someone that collects everything they can that relates to the thing they are a fanatic of. To me, obsessed and fanatic are interchangeable. Some that has every book, game, poster, toy, etc. of something is a fanatic. They may or not be a fanboy/girl. Reason I say this is because if their fanatic-ness is only on the surface, if they lack passion, then they are not a fanboy/girl.

In conclusion!

Fan= likes something enough to recommend it and looks forward to new installments
Fanboy/girl= Passionate fan
Fanatic= fan that collects everything relating to the thing they are a fan of. May or may not be a fanboy/girl.

Makes sense? :)
 
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