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DmC: Racist?

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Judgement said:
Frekin Phinias was my favorite character in this entire game Seriously! Dante and Vergil came after him, he was the only one true to himself and the way he went about carrying himself only showed he had something to gain and great knowledge. I only hope he gets a part in the next DmC if there is one.
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Gimme five!

BTW, Phineas is one of best new characters in the new game itself. Actually, he's more like a pure demon with a heart of gold. You would love the guy: a prophet, a genius, and an inventor. I can even compare him to Beast from X-Men. I wanna see him in the sequel as one of Dante's friends, as one of the few demons who wants to use their knowledge to help mankind.
 
Riley said:
This is a discussion that NEEDS to be had if we're gonna get this whitey centric gaming industry anywhere. To break it down:

1. There are NO heroes Of Color anywhere in the game. The closest you get is a one eyed demon named Phineas who has a Man of Color voice acting him, but you won't see a SINGLE Person of Color anywhere in the game. Instead, you have to deal with Whitey hero, Cracker Love Interest, Snowball Villain, and not a GOTDAMN thing else. No representation here of anything but the White Cisgendered Heterosexual that we just don't have near enough games for.

2. Much of the reason behind the reboot was, as stated by part of the team that made the game, it was "too japanese" before. Implying that being part of a proud PoC culture is a BAD THING??? Typical white boy mindset.

3. Despite "Japanesey" being a bad thing, the character Vergil has no problem APPROPRIATING East-Asian PoC cultures by wielding a katana.

4. Dante's hair starts out black. What color does it turn when he becomes more powerful? WHITE. So being white is inherently better than being black, that's what this racist ass game is telling me.

5. Vergil shoots a defenseless pregnant womyn, intentionally killing her baby so that she can suffer before finally murdering her as well. What is the rationalization for this? They are demons, and the only good demon is a dead one it seems. This is in spite of the fact that the "HEROES" of the game are partially demons themselves. Internalized racism much?

Let's have a nice, mature thread where we can discuss the racist themes in this game calmly and intelligently. AKA I don't wanna hear any a yall's whitesplaining
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Very well thought out troll. 6/10
 
I'm posting this here because I couldn't link more than 5 vids in my last post:


I like how Bob argues that most games are actually educational in some way, shape or form.

See parents? Studying. :mad:

Loopy said:
Maybe like Aveline from Assassin's creed?
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Proud owner of that (surprisingly revolutionary) game -- mostly due to the fact that there are so few African-American female leads (even in this day and age).

Too bad she's only half, though.

Ubisoft: "Can't make her too black... how would our audience be able to relate??"

Yeah, I know it's for story purposes, but I still felt the need to raise an eyebrow at this.
 
I'm ganna skip all the other comments for later, for now I'd like to address your issues.

Riley said:
This is a discussion that NEEDS to be had if we're gonna get this whitey centric gaming industry anywhere. To break it down:
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First and foremost don't say 'whitey' with such a serious tone. I understand that the gaming industry is prominently a white male dominated industry in both the press and the development but to change it we can't be so blunt and even disrespectful, if hurts your cause and demerits your standing. We have to be the betters for it to be the right. It's harder but nothing worth doing is easy.


Riley said:
1. There are NO heroes Of Color anywhere in the game. The closest you get is a one eyed demon named Phineas who has a Man of Color voice acting him, but you won't see a SINGLE Person of Color anywhere in the game. Instead, you have to deal with Whitey hero, Cracker Love Interest, Snowball Villain, and not a GOTDAMN thing else. No representation here of anything but the White Cisgendered Heterosexual that we just don't have near enough games for.
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As a Latino I get the want and even need to have a character of my race as a protagonist, and while Garcia Hotspur is cool and all, I'd still would like some representation. And as the brother of an openly homosexual man I would also like to see a gay/lesbian character that isn't ether in it for the laughs or the sex appeal.

However, DMC/DmC might not be the place to start. The game was designed as been for Dante 12 years ago with 2 humans (technically), Dante and Trish. Dante was a caucasian man from the very beginning, specifically and American since he was actually another character at the beginning of developepment. The sequels had one European woman in 2 and the 4th quite possibly took place in Europe, judging by the architecture.

So, yes they are white, but simply because it was established in the original that Dante was white in the source material. Could there have been other ethnicities in the game, such as making Kat Black, Latina, or even Middle Eastern? Yeah, couldn't hurt, but I don't believe their choices were based on a notion that they all had to be white but rather that they didn't think to add ethnic diversity. This is not necessarily a racist mind set as much as a simple case of it just didn't occur to them. The difference been that there was no malice in their choices, I believe.

I don't think that they'd be above making a character with a little color, that if someone at the office said 'let's make the dude Turkish' no one would say 'Nah, let's keep 'em white.'


Riley said:
2. Much of the reason behind the reboot was, as stated by part of the team that made the game, it was "too japanese" before. Implying that being part of a proud PoC culture is a BAD THING??? Typical white boy mindset.
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It's true that the comment was really in poor taste and they really need to find better ways of saying something as simple as 'it was just too campy with a very distinct Japanese style of story telling that was pushing western audiences away' but I don't think it really is something that comes from a 'typical white boy mind set' as much as a case if loose lips.


Riley said:
3. Despite "Japanesey" being a bad thing, the character Vergil has no problem APPROPRIATING East-Asian PoC cultures by wielding a katana.
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Again, it's things he inherited from the original. But maybe you're right to a degree, you can certainly argue it.


Riley said:
4. Dante's hair starts out black. What color does it turn when he becomes more powerful? WHITE. So being white is inherently better than being black, that's what this racist ass game is telling me.
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Not at all. In Japan all peoples have black hair, on rare occasions red, and there is only black and white.

I researched the subject of white hair do to this little reboot and it is a rather romantic notion for somebody to have white hair at a young age in Asia, it represents the later cycle in life, something that can be associated with death, suffering, divine qualities, or demonic properties. In no way is it a statement of one color been better than another, simply a representation of Dante and Vergil's heritage.


Riley said:
5. Vergil shoots a defenseless pregnant womyn, intentionally killing her baby so that she can suffer before finally murdering her as well. What is the rationalization for this? They are demons, and the only good demon is a dead one it seems. This is in spite of the fact that the "HEROES" of the game are partially demons themselves. Internalized racism much?
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A fascinating way of looking at it, it might have merit. Is there a sense of internalized hatred that they vent out on other demons?

But remember that Demons destroyed their family in a gruesome way and that they are also part angels, which have waged war against the demons since long ago.

And also, yeah, demons aren't nice, they they will do to you far worse that what you can do to them without any remorse nor interest in age, shape, or color. So while what Vergil did was f*cked I have little sympathy for that creature that was literal demon spawn.

Riley said:
Let's have a nice, mature thread where we can discuss the racist themes in this game calmly and intelligently. AKA I don't wanna hear any a yall's whitesplaining
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Like I said, I understand you're concern but I think you are approaching it in a poor manner. It is important to be discreet, articulate, and mature in order to be taken seriously. Using derogatory words an phrases only damage your point and makes it seem juvenile.

While I don't agree with you 100% I urge you to stick to your believes and find more mature ways to express your concerns. It is important to let people know that you feel passionate about things that concern you and it is also important to be taken seriously.
 
no_one_cares_pinkie_pie_by_caperuza-d4d88kw.png
 
Riley said:
This is a discussion that NEEDS to be had if we're gonna get this whitey centric gaming industry anywhere. To break it down:

1. There are NO heroes Of Color anywhere in the game. The closest you get is a one eyed demon named Phineas who has a Man of Color voice acting him, but you won't see a SINGLE Person of Color anywhere in the game. Instead, you have to deal with Whitey hero, Cracker Love Interest, Snowball Villain, and not a GOTDAMN thing else. No representation here of anything but the White Cisgendered Heterosexual that we just don't have near enough games for.

2. Much of the reason behind the reboot was, as stated by part of the team that made the game, it was "too japanese" before. Implying that being part of a proud PoC culture is a BAD THING??? Typical white boy mindset.

3. Despite "Japanesey" being a bad thing, the character Vergil has no problem APPROPRIATING East-Asian PoC cultures by wielding a katana.

4. Dante's hair starts out black. What color does it turn when he becomes more powerful? WHITE. So being white is inherently better than being black, that's what this racist ass game is telling me.

5. Vergil shoots a defenseless pregnant womyn, intentionally killing her baby so that she can suffer before finally murdering her as well. What is the rationalization for this? They are demons, and the only good demon is a dead one it seems. This is in spite of the fact that the "HEROES" of the game are partially demons themselves. Internalized racism much?

Let's have a nice, mature thread where we can discuss the racist themes in this game calmly and intelligently. AKA I don't wanna hear any a yall's whitesplaining
Click to expand...

Riley said:
are y'all tryin to trigger me?
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Morgan Freeman would despair of you.

Banned for being a racist moron. Oh, and a troll.

YEAH AND I'M WHITE TOO SO LET'S MAKE SOMETHING OUT OF NOTHING OVER THIS!!!!1111ONE

Good grief...
 
Unknown said:
As Bob explains in his vid, this isn't so much "racism" as it is just flat out cultural ignorance.Very ture. Even though Japan has opened up to the world, it's still very much Japanese people....and they don't have much contact with foreigners of any type. So there are some odd ideas about all people, not just one group.
If you're blonde, they think you are at best a movie star and American; or worst a drug taker, criminal and sex addict. This isn't all the time, but that's stuff I've heard.

Keep in mind that this is one of the most homogenous countries in the world you're talking about here. Japan won't even give equal rights to second generation Koreans there (which explains why a lot of them are Yakuza in the first place).They also don't like the half Mexican Japanese 3 generations later even though the Japanese asked them to their counry for cheaper workers or half Chinese/Japanese.

As I was saying, something occurred to me while I was thinking about why it bothered me that there weren't more um... ethnic differences in DmC.

There was something that Bob once said. He said he remembered reading a (relatively old) book with a white kid telling a black kid...

Prepare yourselves for this...

"Why would you need a costume for Halloween? You already are something."

Yikes.That's a really cruel thing to say! I guess that went on back then, but still it makes me cringe knowing things like that were said...sadly still now too.

But... before we get all up in arms over that one seemingly offensive statement, we have to remember that that question was being asked honestly, without any malice behind it. The kid had no idea that he was asking anything offensive.

And, due the time period, neither did the audience. They also thought the question was innocent at the time, as well. Either way, this book was forgotten, and no one really writes anything like that anymore unless they're looking into borderline shock-comedy.

However, a lot of games carry this sentiment.

Whenever you see a white character either in a jrpg, j-action game, or even western action game, you'll find that the white characters always have at least somewhat elaborate costumes.True, but aren't all JRPG characters dressed funny?

Separate point:
Like Fang and Vanille in FFXIII. Fang dressed in a sari and Vanille in lots of beads and fur, but Vanille looked white....Fang, I'm not sure...but I guess my point is they dressed like that to show they came from the world below and a different time period, not because of race (at least that's not what I got from it:/).

With black people (if any) you'll usually find them in normal attire, and not much else. It's as if being black alone makes an individual different enough to make up for the lack of an imaginative ensemble. Either that or could be worse by making them wear silly clothes, like they're 'signposting' that this person is different. Not sure how to put this:/

Also there's the danger of stereotype for any person in games. I know games are games, and maybe a sterotype is the quickest way to do it, but shouldn't they just show all characters as people regardless of race, gender, sexuality- all those things. Besides, it's not like there's one type of black person, chinese, latino, indian....you get the idea. Black people come from different places like the Caribbian, America, Zimbabwe, and each have differences in background and upbringing, clothes. Same for how people goruped as Latino have different places, variation in culture, dress...sorry if this sounds crude, but I'm trying to get my thoughts out as best I can. ^_^ What I mean to say is, focusing on one type of person from any race is insulting and games should just show people as people.
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I'll be interested to see what Bioshock Infinite does. That game is set in a time where racism was rampant and shows it. It's set in a city that thought it was better than America, so it took to the air to be separate from the world, wanting to deny any immigrants entry to the city because they were thought of as lesser people.

There's also a war going on between the white 'founders' of the city and the Vox populi who are made up of anyone who is not white or wealthy and headded by a woman called Daisy Fitsroy...got to say from what I saw of her, she seems like a strong character. She sees what goes on around her, and takes a stand.
So I guess the game is aiming for 'go big go home' with these issues. But the thing is, they don't paint thw white people or the immigrants in a good light. It's more like, they are both being extreme. The white founders because of their extreme racism and prejudice and the immigrant rebellion because they take to the street and commit extreme violence on regular people.

What I also find interesting is that the Irish are shown as second class in the city....but they're white. Not sure why, but I thought that was interesting that they did that in the game.

I'm not sure if the game will upset people. (There's already been complaints that the main character burns an American flag) but the game is supposed to show that kind of confict that went on at the time and examines how wrong that kind of attitude was. And to leave out that there was that attitude and racism would be to me dishonest. It happened and you can't just sweep it away. So I want to see more of how Levine and the team show this in the game
 
I don't take racism in gaming, hell in general, seriously since people cried foul on RE5, so when i see a thread like this now i want to come in and be all like:

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But i see these threads so often i can't even bring up the energy to mock you, it isn't worth my time.
 
Going back to DmC was the war with angels and demon like a racist war? Are angels and demons a different race? Or was it a war of ideology? I mean, it's made pretty clear that they don't want angels and demons getting together to have children...and the fact that the offsping of that union have a different name. Then the fact that they actively hunt down and kill all the nephilim.But they did do that because of the nephilim powers, so I guess that wasn't racially motivated (if at all demons and angels are considered different races).

A new word I've never seen before!

I don't think I'll be needing it, though.
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Anyone know what it means...to whitesplain?:/ Like to make excuses for white actions?

Not sure what else to say. Maybe we could use this thread for gaming in general as well?:/
 
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