DmC, my thoughts on the reboot

[LysseC]

I really appreciate this review, Kam, I think it fair.
I don't agree with you on the part about the plot, though. I think I'd give it a 6-7/10 5-6/10. The characters are portrayed in a way that, although a bit clichè, still explores their motives and their psychology, and they can be very relatable. The plot is nothing really original (I have not watched They Live, so I cannot judge to what extent that film influenced it), this is true, but it still raises political and moral problems (especially in Mission 20). If the ending had been left more open, without simply ruling out Vergil as TheBadGuy, it could have risen to 7-8/10 6-7/10 in my personal evaluation, because it would have been less predictable and, as it has been noted elsewhere, much more in line with the whole message against conformity.
However, I totally agree with you when you say that in a HnS game plot is not a major concern, and so I even more appreciate the fact that you don't give it a lot of weight in assessing your final vote on the whole game.

Edit:
Now that I think about it, a 5-6/10 would be fairer for the story, raising to 6-7/10 if there was a more open ending. Corrected that ranks in the post.

 

[Kam]

MGR is not even the same type of hack and slash; and I rather we not even discuss how it's better than DmC, because I honestly don't think it is. The only real comparison to DmC right now is Bayonetta.

agreed. MGR to DmC is apples and oranges. I personally liked MGR, but they're different games so it would be very difficult to objectively compare the two

 

[OppressedWriter]

agreed. MGR to DmC is apples and oranges. I personally liked MGR, but they're different games so it would be very difficult to objectively compare the two

I still look forward to enjoying the pc version, but yeah, there are a few flaws that show that it was not totally Platinum's project, the clunky weapon switching, forced stealth, and ranged weapons seem to be left overs of Kojima's team.

 

[Alittleacorn]

I really appreciate this review, Kam, I think it fair.
I don't agree with you on the part about the plot, though. I think I'd give it a 6-7/10 5-6/10. The characters are portrayed in a way that, although a bit clichè, still explores their motives and their psychology, and they can be very relatable. The plot is nothing really original (I have not watched They Live, so I cannot judge to what extent that film influenced it), this is true, but it still raises political and moral problems (especially in Mission 20). If the ending had been left more open, without simply ruling out Vergil as TheBadGuy, it could have risen to 7-8/10 6-7/10 in my personal evaluation, because it would have been less predictable and, as it has been noted elsewhere, much more in line with the whole message against conformity.
However, I totally agree with you when you say that in a HnS game plot is not a major concern, and so I even more appreciate the fact that you don't give it a lot of weight in assessing your final vote on the whole game.

Edit:
Now that I think about it, a 5-6/10 would be fairer for the story, raising to 6-7/10 if there was a more open ending. Corrected that ranks in the post.

I'd give the story a 7. It wasn't bad, but there were so many missed chances to do some great things with it that it drives my little writer mind crazy. Dante meeting/talking to his mother; more time between him and Vergil; an expansion on the world and what the media portrayed when Dante was off killing Mundus's flunkies; revealing more on Dante's back story and getting more inside his head same for Vergil and Kat, and maybe even Mundus and Lilith. If they'd straightened those things out, I could've given the game a 9.5 easy or even close to a 10 instead of an 8.5. It's the same score I gave for Enslaved, but the scales tip. Where as with Enslaved it has the stronger story than to the gameplay, DmC has the stronger gameplay in comparison than to its story.

 

[Demi-fiend]

Nope, because

"NO WHITE HAIR=NO DEVIL MAY CRY!!!!"

Heh. Zing.

Ok, let me clarify my position. The gameplay in DMC3 is the only thing I like in the old DMC franchise other than the artwork in DmC's Limbo.

If DMC3's gameplay had been in any other game... even something like... Candyland... I would immediately take interest.

A gingerbread man with a candy cane sword shooting gumdrops out of his icing-covered hands would be enough for me... as long as it had mechanics of DMC3 behind it.

It really is the gameplay that matters to me more than anything else. I like Dante, I like Vergil, but I like their DmC versions better even though I hate DmC's play mechanics.

And yes, I agree that DmC could have been better written and the twins could have been presented in a better light. But let's leave that aside for now.

If DmC had DMC3's gameplay, then I would be be set. Tearing up Limbo would have been the greatest thing ever had this been the case.

same way people still debate over the metal gear games and who made a better one back in the 80's

Kojima said that the NES version of Metal Gear was "garbage" (let's not talk about MG2 Snake's Revenge... I already know that that was a pretty bad game).

I'm not saying that I agree with Kojima, I'm just saying that I wish he wouldn't just dismiss the game like that.

It's all a matter of whether you enjoy the game or not.

Edit:

I love how DmC supporters try to downplay me whenever I say something that isn't kissing NT's ass.

No, you're right. You're being fair, in this case. However, most of them also agree that the story and the gameplay needed more polish, so you need to acknowledge that as well.

it's Devil May Cry but more sloppy mechanics.

This. I'm still aggravated that Bayonetta doesn't have Royal Guard. The game itself is fast without a doubt, but I can't tell what's going onscreen most of the time due to all the flashy particle effects. And to me (like you said), the gameplay doesn't feel as "tight" as DMC3. That's all my opinion, of course.

Oh, and DmC needs to be much more challenging. I know it's beating a dead horse, but it's a horse that needs to be beaten. And until players get the true "Dante Must Die" difficulty they've been asking for, it will continue to be bludgeoned well beyond recognition.

forced stealth

I welcome the concept of stealth in an extreme action game like DMC, Bayonetta, or Bayonetta. I wish more players would, as well.

I also welcome "various solutions" to a problem other than violence -- Dishonored is a good example of this. If more action games took this approach, then I think they would be all the better for letting players make that choice.

 

[CheeseKao]

I HAVE BOTH GAMES!

I love how you ignored how I SAID THAT DmC IS A GOOD GAME!

That MGR part was unnecessary though since you're trying to ask people to calm down.

 

[Fran0823]

Now that we talk about the story

I still find hypocritical of some OG fans to call DmC on it's "Bad" (LOL...you guys have NO IDEA what is bad) story, and then they completely ignore the original's BS of a chronology because "kombat iz teh betTah2!!11!"

If you think DmC's plot is badly done objectivelu...then you must absolutely despise the orginal script...like really

You can say that you "prefer" or "Like more" the original story because it was funny, laidback and cool. And you can also say that DmC's darker, more "modern" story wasn't your cup tea. Sure, it's your opinion.

But then someone (Usually with a DMC3 Dante Avatar, no matter the forum)comes along with" LULZ Shakespearean writting!!" while criticizing plot holes,story,development like expert critics and then when asked about...I dunno Trish barging into the shop, trying to beat the **** out of Dante and then he magically trusts her after she says "Sorry" they go like "but DUUUUDE at least that was cool!" like the fanboys they actually are, no analisys, no expert literature dissection...nope, it was cool

By the way, THIS is bad:Bad gameplay,bad reboot,bad game,bad story...just BAD BAD BAD

 

[Demi-fiend]

If you think DmC's plot is badly done objectivelu...then you must absolutely despise the orginal script...like really

Actually, this is very much true for me. I really don't like the story and script for DMC3. The Dante/Vergil mechanic was somewhat not boring (I liked it ok, but to me, it was just average as a whole) and that was about it for me.

Like I said, it was the mechanics in DMC3 that I really like. They could have been used in Star Trek Klingon game (they use blades too) and I would have liked it just as much.

You can say that you "prefer" or "Like more" the original story because it was funny, laidback and cool. And you can also say that DmC's darker, more "modern" story wasn't your cup tea. Sure, it's your opinion.

The story in DMC3 was... serviceable. It told the story it wanted to tell. I mean, it didn't do so all that well (there's still a ton of unanswered questions within the story itself), but it managed to hold the game game together... to a certain degree.

But then someone comes along with" LULZ Shakespearean writting!!" while criticizing plot holes,story,development like expert critics and then when asked about...I dunno Trish barging into the shop, trying to beat the **** out of Dante and then he magically trusts her after she says "Sorry" they go like "but DUUUUDE at least that was cool!" like the fanboys they actually are, no analisys, no expert literature dissection...nope, it was cool

Before, I would have agreed with you, that some people cannot be swayed due to their fanaticism.

However, I have made peace with a couple of... people who are... stubborn at times. Although, they have admitted that the old DMC series has its flaws. I'll take that as an acceptable answer.

A few fans out there though -- yes. I will be the first to admit that they are impossible. Completely impossible to deal with. Those few will never admit to the old series flaws and will say that the old story is better than the new one because of -- reasons.

I don't deal with them. I just try to ignore them the best I can.

By the way, THIS is bad:Bad gameplay,bad reboot,bad game,bad story...just BAD BAD BAD

I think you're forgetting someone here.

The letter about Duke Nukem Forever was the best part (this was when Yahtzee did a joke review for the game when it was "officially" canceled).

Here's moviebob's take on the BC reboot:

 

[Chancey289]

Now that we talk about the story

I still find hypocritical of some OG fans to call DmC on it's "Bad" (LOL...you guys have NO IDEA what is bad) story, and then they completely ignore the original's BS of a chronology because "kombat iz teh betTah2!!11!"

If you think DmC's plot is badly done objectivelu...then you must absolutely despise the orginal script...like really

You can say that you "prefer" or "Like more" the original story because it was funny, laidback and cool. And you can also say that DmC's darker, more "modern" story wasn't your cup tea. Sure, it's your opinion.

But then someone (Usually with a DMC3 Dante Avatar, no matter the forum)comes along with" LULZ Shakespearean writting!!" while criticizing plot holes,story,development like expert critics and then when asked about...I dunno Trish barging into the shop, trying to beat the **** out of Dante and then he magically trusts her after she says "Sorry" they go like "but DUUUUDE at least that was cool!" like the fanboys they actually are, no analisys, no expert literature dissection...nope, it was cool

By the way, THIS is bad:Bad gameplay,bad reboot,bad game,bad story...just BAD BAD BAD

DmC is just a rather standard sci fi plot. It's not really bad in a technical sense because at least it's decently structured and actually has a coherent plot. The original games not only have very generic plots but they also don't know how to freaking even tell a story. The canon of this game is a freaking mess and will never make sense because of how much they f*cked it up.

Plus I'm getting really tired of this They Live comparison especially since I can bet most of the people who use that have never even seen the damn movie. Yes I can see the inspiration from They Live but is it a flat out copy of it? No. I see lots of different things in DmC. That's just fiction for you. Fiction will always tend to feed on itself and spawn other off shoots. If you look at pretty much anything you will always find similarities. Nothing is truly original anymore.

DmC is pretty much considered a social satire at times. And They Live was not the first thing to take jabs at capitalism and corporate America. Not even the first thing to use the whole alien angle either.

How about we just start going around and knocking off points of every story that takes inspiration from something else?

I can just see people arguing semantics and nitpicking when it comes to knocking around DmC in the story department

Some of John Carpenter's films are considered very influential. This is the guy who made Halloween and look what Micheal Myers spawned.

Every piece of fiction inspires or is inspired by something else, sometimes liberally.

On another note when it came to the whole Shakespearian stuff people just totally didn't freaking know what that even meant. I mean for one it was a voice actress who said that on her own accord and DmC has Shakespearian themes. Nobody freaking said it was going to be Shakespeare. There is only one Shakespeare. There always will be.

 

[Fran0823]

OH GOD; NOT BIONIC COMMANDO AGAIN can't beleive THAT reboot has fans...At least the world still hates Dirge of Cerberus and considers it poison to FFVII right?

Checks forums*...goddammit

 

[Fran0823]

On another note when it came to the whole Shakespearian stuff people just totally didn't freaking know what that even meant. I mean for one it was a voice actress who said that on her own accord and DmC has Shakespearian themes. Nobody freaking said it was going to be Shakespeare. There is only one Shakespeare. There always will be.

SO MUCH THIS

 

[Alittleacorn]

SO MUCH THIS

Have most the people making the mocking Shakespearian jokes even read Shakespeare? @_@ And I don't mean only Romero and Juliet that they learnt in high school but ALL of Shakespeare's plays. I bet a large amount of them haven't.

 

[Jak]

Have most the people making the mocking Shakespearian jokes even read Shakespeare? @_@ And I don't mean only Romero and Juliet that they learnt in high school but ALL of Shakespeare's plays. I bet a large amount of them haven't.

if anything (from what i've read of shakespeare) DmC is more like something he'd write. Boy growing up in slums, finding out he has a twin brother that he was separated from at a young age. the love triangle. the revenge scheme. and the betrayal at the end of the final act

 

[LysseC]

Now that we talk about the story

I still find hypocritical of some OG fans to call DmC on it's "Bad" (LOL...you guys have NO IDEA what is bad) story, and then they completely ignore the original's BS of a chronology because "kombat iz teh betTah2!!11!"

If you think DmC's plot is badly done objectivelu...then you must absolutely despise the orginal script...like really

You can say that you "prefer" or "Like more" the original story because it was funny, laidback and cool. And you can also say that DmC's darker, more "modern" story wasn't your cup tea. Sure, it's your opinion.

But then someone (Usually with a DMC3 Dante Avatar, no matter the forum)comes along with" LULZ Shakespearean writting!!" while criticizing plot holes,story,development like expert critics and then when asked about...I dunno Trish barging into the shop, trying to beat the **** out of Dante and then he magically trusts her after she says "Sorry" they go like "but DUUUUDE at least that was cool!" like the fanboys they actually are, no analisys, no expert literature dissection...nope, it was cool

Cannot agree more on that.
DmC surely is not perfect but neither is DMC. Comparing the two plots is not a way of saying that, since DMC is not perfect, then DmC should not be criticized. As always, the right thing should be recognizing merits and falls of each game without "picking a side" and being blind to a game demerits only because this is the side one has picked.
As always, this situation has been exasperated by the still ongoing "war" between the two sides, and this is most sad.

And the fact that some fans justify DMC plotholes by saying "That's ok because it's cool!" can be accepted as long as they are willing to use the same argument for DmC. That's, I think, is similar to what Kam says in his review, when he says that plot issues should be given less weight in a evaluation of a HnS game.

 

[Bazilican]

I love how DmC supporters try to downplay me whenever I say something that isn't kissing NT's ass.

Yet I'm no DmC supporter, sooo...



At least it's not Kung Fu Chaos!
*BA DUM TSH*

Kung Fu Chaos didn't try to copy DMC, so you're still invalid.

 

[IncarnatedDemon]

My summary of recent posts of this thread:

"Hey those original fans who say DmC is shakespearins are retards!"
"Yeah those retards they say DmC is bad buts so is DMC"
"Have they read shakespearian?"
"**** them!!"

Noone has said exactly this, but your attitude towards what your discussing is simply hating on DMC by talking about how some original fans are giving DmC´s story a different treatment than DMCs.

I will be short, and i can´t bother with sources, so if you have no idea what i am talking about...DO RESEARCH.

1) Media bragged Ninja theory to skylevel with their story telling
2) Taunt was not added to DmC because of narrative
3) Some of the dialogue and scenes in DmC are really poor or simply stupid.

And what does Ninja theory say after DmC release?

Dominic Matthews, the communications officer at Ninja Theory, believes that the recently launched DmC: Devil May Cry should not be taken at face value and that players need to understand the sarcasm that underlines much of its story.

Speaking to Rock, Paper, Shotgun, the developer says, “Satire is a peculiarly British focus. From Spitting Image to Have I Got News for You, we don’t hold back in ridiculing the establishment and getting to the truth through humor. DmC is no different in that regard. It’s a comical satire on the world we live in.”

He also describes the game as a reflection of the current state of the world, which involves right wing media talking heads, subliminal messages, over-the-top violence and drinks that might have hallucinatory effects.

The development team at Ninja Theory believes that most DmC: Devil May Cry players are intelligent adults and wants to drop enough ideas into its game to make them curios and get them thinking about the world they live in.

Very mature story indeed:

I love the part where NTDante has a white wig on his hair and throws it on the ground and says "Not in a million years!".
That was totally awesome. Very funny and in no way was it a finger to fans who wanted original Dante instead of NT Dante, and it was VERY appropriate scene considering how gaming media have antagonized said fans by narrowing their complaints down to nothing more than "White hair give us white hair!!".

Also it was very funny scene, oh wait...i said that already.

 

[Demi-fiend]

I love the part where NTDante has a white wig on his hair and throws it on the ground and says "Not in a million years!".
That was totally awesome. Very funny and in no way was it a finger to fans who wanted original Dante instead of NT Dante

You're never going to let that go, are you?

Edit: By the way... which of Shakespeare's works have you read? You seem to know so much about it.

 

[IncarnatedDemon]

You're never going to let that go, are you?

I could if there was a good reason for that scene. But there isn´t, so no

It was a inappropriate scene considering how media antagonized DMC fans who were frustrated over the reboot, and i highly doubt majority of fans found that scene funny.

 

[Demi-fiend]

I could if there was a good reason for that scene. But there isn´t, so no

Let me know when the aneurism hits.

 

[IncarnatedDemon]

Let me know when the aneurism hits.

What´s a aneurism? :O