DMC 5, thoughts for a great continuation

[ef9dante_oSsshea]

i read it in an interview with obe of the writers that they intended nero to be half demon originally and then changed there minds and supposedly only full and half demons have a full demon form i will try to find the interview

 

[Erian1Mortal]

That concept was not meant for Neros original DT as far as I know.
They actually wanted for Dante to go to Majin DT (that critical DT state from DMC2) and have him loose his mind in the process. The "Full" DT for Nero was something he would achieve to effectivly fight Dantes Majin Form, but both things were scrapped.

That was a design they had for Dante. I'm kinda sad they scrapped the whole thing, could've made for an interesting battle.

 

[Rebel Dynasty]

Actually Fervent, the arm was vaguely explained; before the events taking place in DMC4, Nero was supposed to be one (amongst others) to go on a mission in the Mitis Forest; while there, he was attacked, his arm was wounded, and just never healed properly, becoming the Devil Bringer.

Too bad they scrapped the ideas, though. That would have been bitchin'. But, I actually do like Dante's DT in DMC4.

I don't mind the ethereal devil looming over Nero either, but meh. I think I would have been happy, either way.

 

[Enigma]

Actually Fervent, the arm was vaguely explained; before the events taking place in DMC4, Nero was supposed to be one (amongst others) to go on a mission in the Mitis Forest; while there, he was attacked, his arm was wounded, and just never healed properly, becoming the Devil Bringer.

Too bad they scrapped the ideas, though. That would have been bitchin'. But, I actually do like Dante's DT in DMC4.

I don't mind the ethereal devil looming over Nero either, but meh. I think I would have been happy, either way.

I know, it's in the DMC4 booklet too, I think. He went to Mitis Forest where there was a demon outbreak (probably due to Agnus's experiments with the gates). He was there with Kyrie, since the booklet said a priestess got wounded (I think). So he protected her.

That said, it still doesn't make sense. Why would only his arm transform? That never happened with Dante. Besides, the DB looks like Nero's arm is in a constant form of Devil Trigger. But it doesn't work like the DT: it absorbs demonic abilities (that only affect the arm). Why the DB even exists, I have no idea. What I do know is that it's his own arm, since it's red and blue. If it were infected like some people say, I wouldn't know why it could absorb things... or never die off.

I'd have enjoyed an actual devil form more than the blue ethereal thingy, because Nero didn't actually transform, really. I like to see the protagonist physically transform, not just get some ghost helping him out. I still hope Nero will get that devil form in DMC5.

 

[Rebel Dynasty]

I know, it's in the DMC4 booklet too, I think. He went to Mitis Forest where there was a demon outbreak (probably due to Agnus's experiments with the gates). He was there with Kyrie, since the booklet said a priestess got wounded (I think). So he protected her.

That said, it still doesn't make sense. Why would only his arm transform?

That's a fair question: I never really thought about it, but I wonder why it didn't spread? Maybe it wasn't so much an infection per se, but perhaps the damage caused by whatever demon attacked him forced his arm to retain a demonic state.

That never happened with Dante. Besides, the DB looks like Nero's arm is in a constant form of Devil Trigger. But it doesn't work like the DT: it absorbs demonic abilities (that only affect the arm). Why the DB even exists, I have no idea. What I do know is that it's his own arm, since it's red and blue. If it were infected like some people say, I wouldn't know why it could absorb things... or never die off.

Ah, but Nero isn't a half devil; he's only a quarter. That might explain the differences. You do bring up a point, though; his arm definitely plays a key role in his trigger, considering the colour scheme; just like Dante, his DT transforms his clothing into his DT's physical form-or rather, it incorporates them (so in other words, the sleeve of Nero's coat must have melded with that of his arm).

Okay, so scratching out the potential of it being an infection, and just going with the possibility that it was a demonic reaction to being attacked (in which it wound up stuck in that state) the absorption of powers may be Nero's specific talent. Not all devils have the same abilities, strengths, weaknesses, etc. Even though Sparda didn't have an arm like that, it's entirely possible that he had the ability to absorb powers, at least to a certain extent. Of course, it's hard to be sure, since Sparda isn't so much a character in the story, as much as the backdrop for Dante's story...but we'll ignore that.

I'd have enjoyed an actual devil form more than the blue ethereal thingy, because Nero didn't actually transform, really. I like to see the protagonist physically transform, not just get some ghost helping him out. I still hope Nero will get that devil form in DMC5.

Oh, agreed. I wouldn't mind seeing an actual form-it just would have been interesting to see the transition from ethereal devil looming over him, to actual physical DT. Now whether we'll get a DMC5, is anyone's guess.

 

[Enigma]

That's a fair question: I never really thought about it, but I wonder why it didn't spread? Maybe it wasn't so much an infection per se, but perhaps the damage caused by whatever demon attacked him forced his arm to retain a demonic state.




Ah, but Nero isn't a half devil; he's only a quarter. That might explain the differences. You do bring up a point, though; his arm definitely plays a key role in his trigger, considering the colour scheme; just like Dante, his DT transforms his clothing into his DT's physical form-or rather, it incorporates them (so in other words, the sleeve of Nero's coat must have melded with that of his arm).

Okay, so scratching out the potential of it being an infection, and just going with the possibility that it was a demonic reaction to being attacked (in which it wound up stuck in that state) the absorption of powers may be Nero's specific talent. Not all devils have the same abilities, strengths, weaknesses, etc. Even though Sparda didn't have an arm like that, it's entirely possible that he had the ability to absorb powers, at least to a certain extent. Of course, it's hard to be sure, since Sparda isn't so much a character in the story, as much as the backdrop for Dante's story...but we'll ignore that.



Oh, agreed. I wouldn't mind seeing an actual form-it just would have been interesting to see the transition from ethereal devil looming over him, to actual physical DT. Now whether we'll get a DMC5, is anyone's guess.

Yeah, Dante gained his DT when he was seriously injured, so it might be that Nero himself wasn't injured badly, but his arm was mangled. That could explain why only his arm went into DT. The question is, since DTs heal their users, why won't it revert to its uninjured human form?

True, and Dante can absorb abilities too, in a sense. He absorbs demons and turns them into weapons. Sparda probably could do that too. Besides, who knows what Nero can do? If he's a combination of Dante and Vergil like I suspect (even though the manga makes him Vergil's son), then he might have gained all kinds of abilities from that combination.

I hope that copyright thing will turn out to be a real Devil May Cry game. Heck, it can be another reboot, as long as they do it right.

 

[Enigma]

That concept was not meant for Neros original DT as far as I know.
They actually wanted for Dante to go to Majin DT (that critical DT state from DMC2) and have him loose his mind in the process. The "Full" DT for Nero was something he would achieve to effectivly fight Dantes Majin Form, but both things were scrapped.

That was a design they had for Dante. I'm kinda sad they scrapped the whole thing, could've made for an interesting battle.

Nothing I ever heard about. Could be true, but I have my doubts, since Nero's blue floating DT is not in the concept art - only in the game's gallery. If it were, then it would make sense for his full DT to be his second form that he would use to battle Dante's Majin form. As it stands, I think the DT in the artwork was meant to be his normal Devil Trigger, and the blue floaty thing was just something they made up last minute to replace it. The devil form of Dante that you showed was probably the first concept of Dante's DT. In the end, they decided to make it look more anime-like and insectoid rather than demonic.

 

[Nero DAnte]

I know, but what I find odd is that Nero's Devil Trigger was originally meant to be a full demonic form, like Dante's DT. This is it:

So why they decided to make his DT blue and ethereal is anybody's guess. Maybe because they wanted to make it seem like Vergil's soul (or spirit) is inside the Yamato. Still, it's disappointing.

The DB is a nice addition to the gameplay, but in the end I can't bring myself to like it, because I don't know where it came from or why it even exists. The only thing Nero said about it was ''Now I know. This arm was made for sending guys like you back to hell!'', and that doesn't tell me anything. I mean, are there demons whose specific purpose is to send other demons back to hell? Or is it a reference to Sparda, because he sent demons back to hell? But that wouldn't make much sense, since Sparda didn't have an arm that looked like that, and it certainly didn't increase in size for no reason or absorb demonic abilities.
But yeah, it would be nice if there were like two or three different DTs, that reflect how Nero gains power throughout the game. And if you wanted to replay the game, that you could choose any of those forms.

Dude,he's not saying that in the sense u r taking it,but in the sense that 'i have to use my curse to stop the demons or something like that.... not referring to sparda or other things

 

[Rebel Dynasty]

^ Agreed; it's more of a, "making the best out of something bad" type of deal. He hates his arm, but his arm proves useful, so he comes to accept it. I actually meant to address that as well, but I'd overlooked it, somehow. ^^;

 

[berto]

I think the best next step is not to address the story holes in the games.

People worry too much about that, there are other ways to pass on that information. You want a good game then I suggest not making such a big fuzz on the story and focusing on gameplay, the world, and action. The story thing is just not as crucial as people make it out to be, not in an action game. You can always tell the rest of the story via other medias but the game has to be able to stand with out it or it's just not a video game worth playing, just as well watch on youtube if that's going to be the focus.

 

[berto]

I think the best next step is not to address the story holes in the games.

People worry too much about that, there are other ways to pass on that information. You want a good game then I suggest not making such a big fuzz on the story and focusing on gameplay, the world, and action. The story thing is just not as crucial as people make it out to be, not in an action game. You can always tell the rest of the story via other medias but the game has to be able to stand with out it or it's just not a video game worth playing just as well watch on youtube if that's going to be the focus.1

 

[berto]

Server problem!

 

[Erian1Mortal]

Nothing I ever heard about. Could be true, but I have my doubts, since Nero's blue floating DT is not in the concept art - only in the game's gallery. If it were, then it would make sense for his full DT to be his second form that he would use to battle Dante's Majin form. As it stands, I think the DT in the artwork was meant to be his normal Devil Trigger, and the blue floaty thing was just something they made up last minute to replace it. The devil form of Dante that you showed was probably the first concept of Dante's DT. In the end, they decided to make it look more anime-like and insectoid rather than demonic.

Well, I've read that from a fan translation of one of capcoms Artbooks, but both DT's of Nero as well as the Dante DT's were in the official Artbook, I myself am not able to translate it because I can not read japanese, so I take the information with a grain of salt. Still as it stands there are a lot of things in that artbook that where pretty cool but did not make it into the game because of story or technical reasons.
I still like the game but with knowing what could've been and what we got, it's dissapointing. DMC4 is pretty much half a game and I'd like a continuation for the series or a conclusion.

 

[Enigma]

Dude,he's not saying that in the sense u r taking it,but in the sense that 'i have to use my curse to stop the demons or something like that.... not referring to sparda or other things

What? I'm afraid I don't understand. We were talking about the origins of his DB arm. It can't just exist because Nero wants to use it to 'stop the demons'. It has to have come from somewhere.

 

[Enigma]

I think the best next step is not to address the story holes in the games.

People worry too much about that, there are other ways to pass on that information. You want a good game then I suggest not making such a big fuzz on the story and focusing on gameplay, the world, and action. The story thing is just not as crucial as people make it out to be, not in an action game. You can always tell the rest of the story via other medias but the game has to be able to stand with out it or it's just not a video game worth playing, just as well watch on youtube if that's going to be the focus.

I think the plot holes stand in the way of the game having a good story. If nobody knows where Nero came from, what the deal is with his arm, and nobody, not even Capcom can explain it, then the story stops making sense.
I could invent a new son of Sparda who wasn't conceived by Sparda but came out of a bowl of pudding, but that would devalue the entire story. The DMC series has tried to tell a story, but adding a nonsensical character to it just ruins it all.

 

[berto]

I think the plot holes stand in the way of the game having a good story. If nobody knows where Nero came from, what the deal is with his arm, and nobody, not even Capcom can explain it, then the story stops making sense.
I could invent a new son of Sparda who wasn't conceived by Sparda but came out of a bowl of pudding, but that would devalue the entire story. The DMC series has tried to tell a story, but adding a nonsensical character to it just ruins it all.

That's not exactly how it happened. Nero's story is explained in DMC4 but somewhere in the translation to English the game lost details. One of the actors brought this to the attention of the people in charged and they liked the idea of keeping Nero's origin ambiguous. I'm assuming a lot of the plot points people don't understand are just that, lost in translation.

To go back and address the elements regarding the plot the game would have to first go back and retell what happened for those who aren't in the know and get every one caught up, that alone will get the prospect shot down, how long will that take? Like I said, there are other ways of telling a story, they should just focus on making a game and not in correcting and explaining.

 

[Erian1Mortal]

Like I said, there are other ways of telling a story, they should just focus on making a game and not in correcting and explaining.

That pretty much sums up my feelings about the plot holes in DMCs story. To tell the truth the story was always pretty basic, it was set up in a way that could be expanded upon. I believe they should do some stuff like in Castlevania: Lords of Shadow where you pretty much get a lot of backdrop through books or item descriptions. That would give the game the opportunity to tell it's main story but also give a lot of backdrop to players that are into that kind of stuff.
Thinking about it I believe DMC4 partly did that with the enemy gallery and stuff like that. I'd like to see them expand on stuff like that.

 

[Enigma]

That's not exactly how it happened. Nero's story is explained in DMC4 but somewhere in the translation to English the game lost details. One of the actors brought this to the attention of the people in charged and they liked the idea of keeping Nero's origin ambiguous. I'm assuming a lot of the plot points people don't understand are just that, lost in translation.

To go back and address the elements regarding the plot the game would have to first go back and retell what happened for those who aren't in the know and get every one caught up, that alone will get the prospect shot down, how long will that take? Like I said, there are other ways of telling a story, they should just focus on making a game and not in correcting and explaining.

Never heard of that, but I suppose that sounds probable. When translating to and from Japanese, a lot of details can be lost, I happen to know that because my brother learned Japanese recently.

That said, Capcom never explained where his arm came from, what exactly Nero is to the Sparda family line, or why he is even important in the first place. I don't think that's because they 'chose not to tell us'. Secrets of that magnitude are never kept. If there were some official explanation to Nero's origins - and especially his arm - it would have been told by now by someone who Capcom fired, or a relative of somebody who works at Capcom... anything. Since nothing has been said about the arm, I doubt there is an explanation for it. I think Capcom just wanted to make a 'cool' character with a nice gameplay addition. And so they made the DB arm.

Oh, but yes, I know some manga said Nero is Vergil's son, so no need to remind me.

You can ''focus on making a game'', but really, a game needs a cogent story. Who the hell would want to play, for example, a Metal Gear Solid game, if it kept contradicting itself and making stuff up as it went along that turned out not to make sense? And if it didn't actually ever explain that stuff? Really, I'd just get ****ed that they didn't put any thought into the plot. Nice gameplay does not excuse a nonsensical story. That would be like saying ''This Superman movie's plot, characterizations and everything else sucked, BUT the action didn't, therefore it's a great movie''. The hell it is.

In any case, they need to explain it in some way. I mean, I don't feel the need to play a game that has a nonsensical character with nonsensical abilities running around - at least not in a game that's supposed to make some sense.

 

[Rebel Dynasty]

That said, Capcom never explained where his arm came from, what exactly Nero is to the Sparda family line, or why he is even important in the first place. I don't think that's because they 'chose not to tell us'. Secrets of that magnitude are never kept. If there were some official explanation to Nero's origins - and especially his arm - it would have been told by now by someone who Capcom fired, or a relative of somebody who works at Capcom... anything.

I think I've heard that someone (or a couple of people) have specified where his arm came from, what his relation to Sparda was, etc. But, because no one has fully confirmed any of that as canon, one way or another, it's left us still questioning.

Since nothing has been said about the arm, I doubt there is an explanation for it. I think Capcom just wanted to make a 'cool' character with a nice gameplay addition. And so they made the DB arm.

I take you mean beyond the vague mention of his arm sustaining injury pre-DMC4? Yeah, it's highly likely they just wanted to make something different.

Oh, but yes, I know some manga said Nero is Vergil's son, so no need to remind me.

Yeah, there's that. I'm okay with it, but you'll find many others reject it; too often, people reject it because they're thinking too deeply into something that Capcom themselves didn't. I'm guilty of it as well, but only because I have an unquenchable curiosity. Otherwise, I shrug off Capcom's lack of concrete canon, and glaring inconsistencies.

You can ''focus on making a game'', but really, a game needs a cogent story. Who the hell would want to play, for example, a Metal Gear Solid game, if it kept contradicting itself and making stuff up as it went along that turned out not to make sense? And if it didn't actually ever explain that stuff? Really, I'd just get ****ed that they didn't put any thought into the plot. Nice gameplay does not excuse a nonsensical story. That would be like saying ''This Superman movie's plot, characterizations and everything else sucked, BUT the action didn't, therefore it's a great movie''. The hell it is.

I actually have to agree with this; while gameplay should be the primary aspect of a videogame (since that's what they exist for), that doesn't mean it should be the sole element to the game. A storyline, no matter how intricate or how basic, needs to exist, to some extent. Without it, what really helps us relate to the characters? Nada. So yes, I agree that any storyline present should at least be consistent-but, like I said, Capcom leaves a lot of holes, which isn't so bad, because there are other forms of media to fill those gaps-even if those fillers sometimes contradict one another, or the game (usually only in part).

 

[Enigma]

A storyline, no matter how intricate or how basic, needs to exist, to some extent. Without it, what really helps us relate to the characters? Nada. So yes, I agree that any storyline present should at least be consistent-but, like I said, Capcom leaves a lot of holes, which isn't so bad, because there are other forms of media to fill those gaps-even if those fillers sometimes contradict one another, or the game (usually only in part).

Yeah, it's just that I want them to explain Nero's arm in DMC5. I don't mean explaining it through endless dialog or an annoying prologue or something, but there *at least* has to be some logic to it. I mean, Nero being Vergil's son is one thing, but what about the arm? If they don't explain it I'll be too mesmerized by the arm, his floating Devil Trigger and the great mystery behind it to play the game normally. I mean, if the DT is somehow related to Vergil, that means it's relevant to the plot, so they have to explain it. Otherwise, the whole game pretty much makes no sense. And what if Vergil is planned to return? They'd have to explain how that would work.
I don't agree with the idea that Nero is Vergil's son, btw, but that's another issue.

 

[Nero DAnte]

MAybe Nero was attacked by demons and they i dont know,chopped off his arm and somehow, it grows back,like,regeneration?

 

[Nero DAnte]

Weg was mainly talking about the combos: ''Dante should have strong combos''. We can't have two characters (Dante and Vergil) who both have strong attacks that kill enemies quickly.

I've never heard of the demons' power being halved when they come to the human world. Do you have a source for this? Cerberus got beaten because he was already weakened, I suspect. There's nothing more to it. The game doesn't say anything further about it.

I guess for the sake of continuity Vergil would still be as strong as Dante. The idea was always that Dante and Vergil are each other's equals, though Vergil lost because he didn't feel some form of love. It doesn't matter what happens, they'll both be equally strong because the story will probably demand that.

nice sign