Corrupted Vergil and Nelo and mission 6

[Sparda™]

Looking at the ghost (focusing mainly on the horns) it doesn't really look like Sparda, it doesn't look like Vergil and it doesn't like like Nelo. It looks like a new Devil form that Nero could eventually fully awaken and use.
Sparda's thoery about Nero is starting to make more sense to me.

Amen to that.

 

[King Avallach]

In the 3rd battle you face Nelo, you can definitely tell it is Vergil. Plus Mundus actually calls him "Vergil". If it was Vergil's soul/ spirit, do you really think it'd serve Mundus? No! The body is that of Vergil and nearly all his will has been stripped from him, but his battles with Dante's (in a rather cliched way) awaken memories inside him, giving him temporary bursts of free will. A little bit (well, okay, not a little bit) like Chris Redfield imploring away at Jill Valentine in RE5 when she has that device on her chest pumping that mind control agent into her bloodstream. (Closest example to mind, I know there are many others.) In any case, you get the point I'm trying to convey.

 

[Sparda™]

In the 3rd battle you face Nelo, you can definitely tell it is Vergil. Plus Mundus actually calls him "Vergil". If it was Vergil's soul/ spirit, do you really think it'd serve Mundus? No! The body is that of Vergil and nearly all his will has been stripped from him, but his battles with Dante's (in a rather cliched way) awaken memories inside him, giving him temporary bursts of free will. A little bit (well, okay, not a little bit) like Chris Redfield imploring away at Jill Valentine in RE5 when she has that device on her chest pumping that mind control agent into her bloodstream. (Closest example to mind, I know there are many others.) In any case, you get the point I'm trying to convey.

Yeah, that's the best explanation I have heard in a while about this specific subject.

 

[Vergil'sBitch]

Don't refer to Resi brings back bad memories.
Vergil could have been controlled by Mundus into serving him. You're right that he wouldn't have served the demon emperor of his own free will.
Mundus could have done things to Vergil's mind (like blocked his memories).
Just remember that Mundus is a full demon and Vergil was extremely weak after his battle with Dante.

 

[Sparda™]

Vergil's Nelo Angelo form was a mere corrupt devil trigger, forced by Mundus' control over him.

A being with its own corporeal and spiritual form is easily manipulated like a marionette, rather than a free soul.

 

[Vergil'sBitch]

Hey Sparda, do you think that Vergil was kept in DT all the time under Mundus' control? Or do you think that Vergil could come out of DT at will like in DMC3?

Its just something thats come to me.

 

[Vergil'sBitch]

Off topic BTW I don't want arguments with anyone, i gotta put up with enough through my parents b*tching at each other.

 

[Sparda™]

Hey Sparda, do you think that Vergil was kept in DT all the time under Mundus' control? Or do you think that Vergil could come out of DT at will like in DMC3?

Its just something thats come to me.

As I said above, being a forced DT by Mundus, Vergil was not able to have a human form, but more of a corrupt form - like something in the middle of being in the normal form and that demonic.

We can all remember how Vergil removed the mask of Nelo Angelo in DMC1. That clearly hints It's his body inside that armor.

 

[King Avallach]

Don't refer to Resi brings back bad memories.
Vergil could have been controlled by Mundus into serving him. You're right that he wouldn't have served the demon emperor of his own free will.
Mundus could have done things to Vergil's mind (like blocked his memories).
Just remember that Mundus is a full demon and Vergil was extremely weak after his battle with Dante.

It wasn't THAT bad, I'll be the first to admit I preferred its predecessor but it's still great fun to play.

The point that you're trying to make is confusing me, one minute you're implying it's Vergil's spirit in Mundus' armour, next it's Mundus' power in Vergil's body. Could you please make your mind up? Everyone who played 3 all the way through knows that Vergil was weakened by his battle with Dante. By rights, the slash that Dante delivered would have cut several cows in half. Vergil was weakened and in that state he was unable to stop Mundus diminishing his free will and either erasing or distorting his memories until he became Nelo. No one's disputing that but the fact of the matter is Nelo is Vergil, with all the aggression and all necessary skills including his ability to teleport at will. He is, however bereft of any knowledge of his past as far as I can see and, even when flashbacks seem to occur to Nelo, they aren't there for very long.

 

[Sparda™]

It wasn't THAT bad, I'll be the first to admit I preferred its predecessor but it's still great fun to play.

The point that you're trying to make is confusing me, one minute you're implying it's Vergil's spirit in Mundus' armour, next it's Mundus' power in Vergil's body. Could you please make your mind up? Everyone who played 3 all the way through knows that Vergil was weakened by his battle with Dante. By rights, the slash that Dante delivered would have cut several cows in half. Vergil was weakened and in that state he was unable to stop Mundus diminishing his free will and either erasing or distorting his memories until he became Nelo. No one's disputing that but the fact of the matter is Nelo is Vergil, with all the aggression and all necessary skills including his ability to teleport at will. He is, however bereft of any knowledge of his past as far as I can see and, even when flashbacks seem to occur to Nelo, they aren't there for very long.

I think I can make a good analogy right here.

Jill Valentine in RE5, as said by herself, was aware of what she was doing but she couldn't stop herself.

I think Vergil was aware of everything he was doing, but was forced to act so. His memories are there. The power controlling him is beyond that of his free will. Although he shakes when he suffers in pain seeing Dante's amulet - definitely remembering his family and Dante.

It's the same thing that happened to Jill. Chris shouted numerous times her name. She even replied to him by murmuring his name, while being in a condition she would never hesitate to shake or halt back.

 

[Vergil'sBitch]

What i'm saying is, that Vergil (body or soul) in the Nelo armor could be controlled like a puppet by Mundus. It seemed that when Nelo had flashbacks Mundus could have stopped them. Nelo always seemed in pain after the flashbacks, perhaps Mundus was punishing him mentally.

 

[Sparda™]

What i'm saying is, that Vergil (body or soul) in the Nelo armor could be controlled like a puppet by Mundus. It seemed that when Nelo had flashbacks Mundus could have stopped them. Nelo always seemed in pain after the flashbacks, perhaps Mundus was punishing him mentally.

Nah...

The pain Vergil felt came from the immense power controlling him, rather than a mental punishment. His will was in such a weakened state that If he'd gain full control of himself, he could collapse or even go in a state of comatose - or even instant death.

If not, Mundus' control was keeping him alive from those flashbacks he had.

 

[King Avallach]

I think I can make a good analogy right here.

Jill Valentine in RE5, as said by herself, was aware of what she was doing but she couldn't stop herself.

I think Vergil was aware of everything he was doing, but was forced to act so. His memories are there. The power controlling him is beyond that of his free will. Although he shakes when he suffers in pain seeing Dante's amulet - definitely remembering his family and Dante.

It's the same thing that happened to Jill. Chris shouted numerous times her name. She even replied to him by murmuring his name, while being in a condition she would never hesitate to shake or halt back.

Good analogy, I don't think this one can be broke down for some time. I must admit though, when Dante get's the flashback "I want the chocolate." after obtaining both amulets, I was convinced that Vergil couldn't possibly know what it was that he was doing. I mean, most of Nelo's actions seem very pre-meditated. If you see how he attacks, It's not just random flurries, he also teleports and taunts etc. Suggesting there is a method and an intelligence behind Nelo's actions. An intelligence, perhaps, not his own.

 

[Sparda™]

Good analogy, I don't think this one can be broke down for some time. I must admit though, when Dante get's the flashback "I want the chocolate." after obtaining both amulets, I was convinced that Vergil couldn't possibly know what it was that he was doing. I mean, most of Nelo's actions seem very pre-meditated. If you see how he attacks, It's not just random flurries, he also teleports and taunts etc. Suggesting there is a method and an intelligence behind Nelo's actions. An intelligence, perhaps, not his own.

Thank you.

Jill's actions are pre-meditated also.

If you carefully remember the flashback Irving has when Jill herself dressed as the Bird Lady forced him to get the Control Plaga as a last resort If he fails to put the BSAA agents off the course.

She attacks on her will also. It's some sort of sadistic pleasure, although not in the same levels as the demonic brothers, of course.

After all, the P30 substance injected inside her body, rushed all her chemical fluids, one of those undeniably being the adrenaline.

 

[Darth Angelo]

(I have always thought of Nelo as a Darth Vader type character (hence my name I guess)
I don't really strongly believe this much anymore 'cos it's full of holes but Darth Vader was not being controlled he had just lost himself in his own lust for ultimate power through years and years as this soulless indulgence of being the all powerful Darth Vader. His mind was also being twisted by the emperor.

Beens that Nelo's form doesn't seem to run out like a normal DT and it has that blue pulse running through it, it seemed like his strength was being fed to him by Mundus constantly.
Like yes he was being controlled to a certain extent but whatever free will Vergil had left had been lost in this infinite power that Mundus was feeding him. Like he had given in to a corrupt version of what he wanted all along like Vader.

 

[Sparda™]

Beens that Nelo's form doesn't seem to run out like a normal DT and it has that blue pulse running through it, it seemed like his strength was being fed to him by Mundus constantly.
Like yes he was being controlled to a certain extent but whatever free will Vergil had left had been lost in this infinite power that Mundus was feeding him. Like he had given in to a corrupt version of what he wanted all along like Vader.

Well, that would stand If It wouldn't be for the shakes of the flashbacks...

Now, If Nelo wouldn't have free will left, he'd never 'disappear' and leave behind the amulet. I think Vergil's last will was that - to help his brother defeat the one responsible for all the sufferings of his family. Like something to redeem himself from all the evil he might have caused during what he thought was to protect his beloved ones.

As I mentioned in my above posts and especially in my analogy with Jill in RE5, he was well aware he couldn't do anything about freeing himself from the control put on him, but still he couldn't stop himself. With or without his pleasure or approval, he tried to kill his own brother while being in control from the one he despised the most - Mundus.

Vergil had reverted to good, but the shame was that he was heavily wounded at the time of reverting into Nelo Angelo. His powers were at low levels, making him easier to be manipulated and controlled at will.