Concept of Malice was lacking

[IncarnatedDemon]

When i first heard of Malice concept i was thinking "This sounds like something that can be truly great". Sadly i never believed that Malice(world) was trying to kill me. I felt it was all scripted. I wasnt fooled!

And if i cant get htat "**** it is actually trying to kill me!" to a significant degree then i think they havent succeeded.
Here is the famous wall trapping. I really loved that. What i dislike was the cutscene though. I wouild have loved seeing the walls close in without it being a cutscene.
Wall closing in (click)


I think...think... this concept of world trying to kill Dante can make DmC 2 be a very awesome game (on top of polished gameplay).

Since this concept is relateively new in DMC games it's no big deal that it lacked. It's a foundation.


Here is what i would do for DmC 2:

Make it so that the building and walls closed in as you fought enemies. There wouild be two type of Malice attempts at killing you:

1. Traversal (as you saw with the wall closing in)
2. When you fight monsters in non traversal places:
Here the walls and buildings close in making the area narrower and narrower.

This would i think give a great sense of Malice trying to kill you. And it would also give the player a awesome challenge.

That would definetly be so fun.
Anyone else who have thought of this?

 

[Alittleacorn]

There were a few moments where you had to do something in a limited time before it was lights out, but there weren't many times that I thought threatened. It's a shame the rating for the game wasn't an 18 so it could've had some gory deaths from that.

I would like to see the things you mentioned if they still have Limbo like it was. Would be cool.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

I dunno. It wasn't supposed to simply be this "all-pervasive" danger that strikes at without notice, it was also about how Malice contorts the world into something clearly dangerous, like holes and other hazards. When things start going crazy with walls closing in, trains out of nowhere, puddles of acid, and whatever, those are sorta what they meant. Malice takes many forms, and is the cause of pretty much all the hazards, even Demonic Shards. Malice's main point wasn't specifically all for a purpose of environmental hazards, but also from that narrative point that Dante is in no way welcome in Limbo - from the ways it does try to kill him, to the demons it spawns, the taunts it berates you with, and how it otherwise impedes progress by closing off pathways.

In the beginning, they give that small cutscene to let you know what's happening, and then you're tossed back into dealing with that new threat. It gives these new threats a introduction, then for the rest of the game they don't give you any warnings about them, they just throw them at you like traps and the only hints you get are ones that tell you "yeah, this is already happening." DMC4 did it Faults, too. One introduction that they exist, and then it forces you to be wary of them n.n

They could have done more, of course, but really only if there were also more instances, eg more levels. If they tried to shove so many more instances of Malice into what's in the game, it would have gotten old real quick :s

 

[King Avallach]

I believe the intended immediate impact of malice is attained, as the game is a visual gem among the hacker/ slasher action sub-genre. Its impact is admittedly lessened through the necessary level repeats needed to collect everything. I still think there is enough to malice to keep Dante on his sock-less toes during the game to whet the thirst of some of the most pathologically obsessed adrenaline junkies. Could there have been more danger imposed by the world around Dante? Maybe, but there is a fine line between engaging people's competitive spirits and utterly destroying them. First playthrough, I found the game of decent difficulty. I think ninja theory did a good job with the ratio of do-or-die platforming to destroying the hapless denizens of Limbo. More combat, I would have happily welcomed, more of the platforming, some I know would have welcomed a good deal more than me. There are few more gratifying ways to vent anger than juggle combo destroying the damned hordes of DMC games, platforming is occasionally a welcome distraction for me, in playing the game but as far as I'm concerned, it shouldn't be the focus of a DMC game.

Maybe a few more different forms of malice would be welcome should the entire series be rebooted in a similar capacity, maybe the world forming debris-bound appendages that swipe at Dante in myriad forms half way through a boss fight for one suggestion or pulling him towards a supernatural gravity well, or other pre-existing environmental hazards, they could even take a leaf from the book of legacy of Kain and put Dante in the world of the living where he's wanted as a terrorist (As much as I like this game, I cannot, rightly as a gamer, ignore the amount of games it has 'borrowed' certain themes and mechanics from.)

 

[EvilX-81]

When i first heard of Malice concept i was thinking "This sounds like something that can be truly great". Sadly i never believed that Malice(world) was trying to kill me. I felt it was all scripted. I wasnt fooled!

And if i cant get htat "**** it is actually trying to kill me!" to a significant degree then i think they havent succeeded.
Here is the famous wall trapping. I really loved that. What i dislike was the cutscene though. I wouild have loved seeing the walls close in without it being a cutscene.
Wall closing in (click)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P__8t4rGfYk#t=8m20s

Well actually it can crush you if you linger around in the pathway long enough, so it at least still has a level of threat to it.

BTW my favorite scene is in that same level with the blue wall that suddenly blocks you from collecting the item there. Spooked me the first time I saw it.

I think...think... this concept of world trying to kill Dante can make DmC 2 be a very awesome game (on top of polished gameplay).

Since this concept is relateively new in DMC games it's no big deal that it lacked. It's a foundation.


Here is what i would do for DmC 2:

Make it so that the building and walls closed in as you fought enemies. There wouild be two type of Malice attempts at killing you:

1. Traversal (as you saw with the wall closing in)
2. When you fight monsters in non traversal places:
Here the walls and buildings close in making the area narrower and narrower.

This would i think give a great sense of Malice trying to kill you. And it would also give the player a awesome challenge.

That would definetly be so fun.
Anyone else who have thought of this?

Yea, I'm down with those ideas. Could make for a good boss at least if they couldn't do with throughout the entire game. Could make for some good mind**** moments too if they did the closing walls subtly and slowly while you're busy smashing demons, then next thing you know RAAGH! the walls try to quickly spring closed around.

I think though, that the idea of a world of Malice is just too huge to really nail down concept-wise, at least with out current level of hardware.

It's like, imagine having a maze and your friend trying to go through it. If you want to impede or stop him, your imaginations the limit. Draw in walls, block him in, draw in traps, right down to crumpling the page up and throwing it in the trash, lighting it on fire, or tearing it in half.

Because at times, it feels like "if limbo is alive, why doesn't limbo just utterly crush me at this certain point". I think they need to be very careful about how they explain malice if they make another game, and make sure it's sentience is limited or conditional, to explain why the world isn't basically attacking you every minute you're there in very possible way imaginable. The idea of a world literally out to get you is an awesome idea, but tough as hell to pull off. Though this was a good try at it all things considered.

 

[Dante47]

I felt a much larger presence of danger in Vergil's Downfall.

 

[Vergil'sBitch]

I felt a much larger presence of danger in Vergil's Downfall.

Especially around the edge of cliffs :lol:
(I got that presence when fighting that thing that was picking on Eva *sorry, can't think what it's called* )

Well, there is a saying about the walls closing in.

 

[Chancey289]

The world's literally breaking apart around me trying to kill me. Then after kicking so much a$$ showing my persistence to survive the wall says "F*ck you Dante!"

I'm totally welcome in Limbo right? Seems to me that everyone hates me here. After the demons drag Dante in to Limbo they aren't looking to offer him some cookies.

 

[crush]

Spiked walls does the trick everytime. I wonder why it was left out in DmC?

 

[TWOxACROSS]

Spiked walls does the trick everytime. I wonder why it was left out in DmC?

Spikes? In a Capcom game? Insta-kill bro. That'd be infuriating

 

[IncarnatedDemon]

I don't think spiked walls is a good thing.

Here is what i thought but i didn't want to post because it really is complex thing. And giving the concept of Malice the living world whos after killing you more depth without being troublesome isnt easy.


But i think they can add a mode called "Crush".
Where Malice or The world will have a bigger role in killing you.

Example Malice may do a attack on you where she removes floor your standing on, then your forced to angel dash towards a wall and do a wall run (DMC 2 move) til the floor returns.
ISSUE with this: What will happen to the non flying enemies when floor is removed?

You could also use guns while ascending down after wall run.


This is just ONEidea for how Malice can have a more active role.
Another idea is to actually show that the walls close in during gameplay, instead of a cutscene. Why does it matter? Makes Malice more real because its happening as you play. Plus it would be much cooler to look at than a cutscene.



EDIT:
Perhaps this could be bad for DMC formula, i dont know but it sounds like it could be good.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

Example Malice may do a attack on you where she removes floor your standing on, then your forced to angel dash towards a wall and do a wall run (DMC 2 move) til the floor returns.
ISSUE with this: What will happen to the non flying enemies when floor is removed?

You could also use guns while ascending down after wall run.

Therein lies the problem. There would have to be that balance between keep the threat of the enemies without having them just accidentally fall to their deaths

In such a way, they could also allow the goons like Stygians some sort of aerial prowess to compensate, and then it becomes a battle of both staying in the air and trying to knock the opponents down. Alternatively, there could just be enemies that could fly to avoid falling to their death, although then the player would instantly get suspicious that the the floor is going to give way since flying enemies that can avoid the hazard showed up

Another idea is to actually show that the walls close in during gameplay, instead of a cutscene. Why does it matter? Makes Malice more real because its happening as you play. Plus it would be much cooler to look at than a cutscene.

The game does exactly that from pretty much every point past Under Watch where they first introduced the fact that Limbo will try to kill you in other ways, like passageways closing off and extending.

Or do you mean that they shouldn't be scripted at all? Because that would require a lot of reworking areas to allow for them to happen (or not happen) at any given time :x Think about it, the unscripted Dragon battles in Skyrim only work because they can come at you from anywhere.in the open world that you happen to be. DmC takes place in doors in preset locations. They'd literally have to code every inch of the level in order to get varied and random effects out of it. And that could cause a whole other mess of problems - consider how sometimes Skyrims random events aren't all that welcome, and end up impeding enjoyment

 

[Loopy]

And that could cause a whole other mess of problems - consider how sometimes Skyrims random events aren't all that welcome, and end up impeding enjoyment

Too may Limbo/Malice attempts at random, especially when you don't know when or where it will happen might get frustrating, especially if it's an instant kill. It would be like playing Final Fantasy when they have loads of random battles at once and you're low on health. It's very frustrating and turns the game into something to get angry at instead of have fun with.

 

[IncarnatedDemon]

Therein lies the problem. There would have to be that balance between keep the threat of the enemies without having them just accidentally fall to their deaths

In such a way, they could also allow the goons like Stygians some sort of aerial prowess to compensate, and then it becomes a battle of both staying in the air and trying to knock the opponents down. Alternatively, there could just be enemies that could fly to avoid falling to their death, although then the player would instantly get suspicious that the the floor is going to give way since flying enemies that can avoid the hazard showed up

Well they could make it so the floor still has collision with monsters, but for the player it would lead to a fall. Besides even if it's a problem: problems are meant to be solved. That is the way of innovation

The game does exactly that from pretty much every point past Under Watch where they first introduced the fact that Limbo will try to kill you in other ways, like passageways closing off and extending.
Could you provide video links to exact durations of it doing please?

Or do you mean that they shouldn't be scripted at all? Because that would require a lot of reworking areas to allow for them to happen (or not happen) at any given time :x Think about it, the unscripted Dragon battles in Skyrim only work because they can come at you from anywhere.in the open world that you happen to be. DmC takes place in doors in preset locations. They'd literally have to code every inch of the level in order to get varied and random effects out of it. And that could cause a whole other mess of problems - consider how sometimes Skyrims random events aren't all that welcome, and end up impeding enjoyment

No i dont mean it shud not be scripted.

 

[Loopy]

No i dont mean it shud not be scripted.

But if it's scripted, it would become predictable, like it is already in the game. If it's scripted, you know where the shards will appear and when the walls will crush you. It's not a suprise once you've got it all memorised.

But having it unscripted would take a lot of work, plus it might become frustrating to play with the floors or walls killing you at random several times in a row and would make progression through the levels to be a long and slow process if you kept being killed like that at random.

 

[Railazel]

But having it unscripted would take a lot of work, plus it might become frustrating to play with the floors or walls killing you at random several times in a row and would make progression through the levels to be a long and slow process if you kept being killed like that at random.

That's why you leave hints such as cracks forming on the ground, enemies flying into the air, or platforms forming for enemies to jump on. The last two will force the player to switch tactics along with the enemy or can lead to shortcuts and hidden paths revealing themselves.

 

[Loopy]

That's why you leave hints such as cracks forming on the ground, enemies flying into the air, or platforms forming for enemies to jump on. The last two will force the player to switch tactics along with the enemy or can lead to shortcuts and hidden paths revealing themselves.

But for me that would be the same thing as having it scripted. You see a crack and remember what malice will do to you and take action to avoid it, just the same as in DmC playing through a level and remembering where the wall will crush you.

But what it comes down to is practicality. It would take too long to program at random attacks by the city.

 

[Railazel]

But what it comes down to is practicality. It would take too long to program at random attacks by the city.

Who cares as long as the final product is good, right? It would be the first time Capcom has actually taken its time with a DMC game.

But for me that would be the same thing as having it scripted. You see a crack and remember what malice will do to you and take action to avoid it.

It's all about execution. It doesn't have to consistently be "cracks = Malice attacks." For example, cracks could form but nothing happens or small areas may drop. Enemies could fly for no apparent reason or some might just be a little slow on the uptake and fall (possibly survive by flying back up or respawn).