Are women objectified in video games?

[Vampi]

As of this writing, i recently saw a video of Enslaved with a DLC Pre-Order bonus for Trip (the female redheaded character). She was wearing a skimpy kinda costume that was suppose to portray her as "robotic" (even though it looks nothing of the sort). I would think since Ninja Theory focuses more on the narrative in their games that they wouldn't take the long threaded route of sexually objectifying (if you call it that way) route of portraying Trip as a sex symbol/object etc.

I might not blame Ninja Theory entirely. Probably they were pressured by Namco Bandai (Enslaves Publisher) into making a sexy costume to garner more attention from the male audience.

But lately, with Samus acting like a feminine girl with lip gloss and looking like a Barbie doll rather then the battle hardened bounty hunter we know her as. And Bayonetta now being the flagship on how everyone mostly views a strong female heroine (even though she's probably up their with the DOA girls as far as sexual objectification goes).

I was wondering, do ya think video games objectify women way too much?

How about men?

Whenever a person says "Oh this female objectifies women" i always here a retort saying "Well men are objectified all the time like Kratos or whatever". But that seems not the same as a women getting objectified.

With women almost garnering up 45% of the gaming demographic nowadays (unfortunately their more towards the casual game side instead of the hardcore games like Ninja Gaiden, DMC or any game with a testerone man. I have to wonder when developers will stop with this fanservice-for-males-only campaign they have going on. Will female characters ever be taken seriously as a lead?

With every strong female character like Elena Fisher (Uncharted) and The Boss (MGS 3) or Alexandra Roivas (Eternal Darkness) there's a million more Tina Armstrong or Kasumi's (Dead or Alive) in the gaming industry.

Sum gamers want video games to be a respected entertainment medium in society. But when you have scenes like in God of War 3 with the Aphrodite Lesbian sex minigame, i have to wonder at this time...if society is right about games only be connected to the teenage boy sexual fantasy rather then a way to bring out an interactive game with great story and believable characters.

Also, when a person is against the objectification of women and calls it out why is it the common response back is "Oh you must be gay" "You must be fat and ugly" or "You're Jealous". Why is that?

Anyway, thoughts?

 

[moseslmpg]

Yeah, I think this is definitely the case. That's not to say women aren't objectified in other media, but it seems like videogames still have yet to outgrow the whole adolescent titillation of women with skimpy clothing and big boobs and whatnot.

This is exemplified by what is laughably called mature games with "adult situations." When I think of adults, I think of being responsible for one's financial future, for one's health, doing what is necessary to raise one's family, doing taxes, having intelligent discussions about things that matter. But apparently, the only thing that "adults" do is get naked and have gratuitous sex that adds nothing to the story or characters. I mention this because it is invariably a woman who is fetishized as a sex object that is usually the center of this.

I get where it is coming from, and I'm sure Freud would get it too. Games are a kind of wish fulfillment for the people that play them and make them, and having female characters dress and act like sluts accounts for the wishes of the "teenage male" demographic. But the thing is, if games ever want to be taken seriously, they have got to get past this. It is the the point where, I, a manly heterosexual man full of virility and machismo, sigh and sometimes even cringe at the inclusion of some overly sexualized female character or hypersexual depiction of an established character (I'm looking at you, Samus and Chun Li in that Capcom poster). If I want to see that stuff, I'll go the internet where one is supposed to find it. Otherwise it is getting tiring.

Edit: People respond that way because they either are those things, or they don't want to be called out on their immature behavior. In some sense, they know they're wrong, but they don't want anyone to point it out. It is a safe guess that most of them do not have GFs either, so they are either bitter or don't understand that women are people like them.

 

[cheezMcNASTY]

look at movies. women usually aren't portrayed as unobjectified, but the ones who are get much more attention. same goes for guys.

would you rather watch another sylvester stalone movie, or one featuring seth rogen, or michael cera?

video games are growing, it's an expanding market. just beginning to be taken seriously as an entertainment industry. we already have our game series that are on top and have pages of video game history. for example, i would call golden-eye the citizen kane of first person shooters. it won't be long before these concerns of yours are looked at as a marketing strategy and it becomes real. you just have to wait for the right innovative game designer to come along and start a trend.

 

[Angel]

I suppose it's a lot to do with the visual element - girl can be as badass as the guy next to her, but who wants to see a woman in baggy clothes? Nah, stick her in skin-tight catsuits with her breasts almost falling out of the top - that'll make her a better shot

Sex sells - whether it is in connotations or denotations, it sells. Men are more visual creatures than women, on the whole, and so designers make the women attractive in the hope it will add to the appeal of the game and disguise the crappiness of it in places. It is a tried and tested formula across the world of media - from tabloids to movies, attractive, scantily-clad people are what the world apparently wants to see. Right now, female gamers are still in the minority and even if they rose to make up 60% of the demographic, they would still not be considered because, as you say, a lot of them prefer shovelware to "proper" gaming. Even female designers have their hands tied up to a point with how to create female characters because they know full well that the game needs to sell, it needs to sell well and boobs win. Or gratuitous sex scenes. Or both.

Despite the wealth of incredible storylines and details that go into making games, they are not regarded on the same level as films when it comes to creating a female character. I don't know how long it will take before this alters, if at all. Maybe from a developer point of view the majority of gamers are in their teens and therefore just need titillating more than anything else?

Perhaps it is easier to make an attractive female than a male? Perhaps just sticking a pair of boobs, some makeup and a was-that-wasn't-it flash of something else is all that's required to keep the majority of males happy, in the eyes of the developers? Maybe for a lot of women just seeing some guy's bare chest is not enough to make them want some alone time with the cover of the game box?

I'm with Cheez on this - we might just have to wait for the right designer to come along. Although there are plenty of great games out there which don't really focus on sexy women/men and just get on with the action.

 

[V]

I would suggest that the games industry and the movie industry is heavily male-dominated; that is, most film directors and scriptwriters are men, they make movies from their perspective as men. The same with games - majority of game-planners and game making staff are still men (although it's good to see an increasing number of women working in the games industry these days). We see a lot more gratuitous objectification of women for the simple reason that the people making the games and movies want more of that than they do of men - because they're men. Where we see tits and ass on screen because the makers of the media put it in, the percieved audience is male so it's assumed they will be happy to see it too, and it later becomes an expectation and a perpetuative cycle.

But to answer the question - without doubt, women are still objectified in many games. The proof - where they appear, lead women are *nearly always* young and sexually attractive; most games do not have a female lead because the audience is assumed majority male and therefore a lot of games have females put into the role of 'sidekicks' or 'helpers' who are always young and attractive to appeal to those male gamers. Note how many action games out there have a young female talking to you on the radio, for example. Rainbow Six, Gears of War, Assassin's Creed, Halo etc. put in there to add a feminine but ultimately quite redundant element. They're eye candy or ear candy. But male gamers still apparently on the whole, do not like playing as women characters. Or so I hear. It's hard to disentangle what is assumed by game makers and what gamers actually want. A lot of men had no problem playing Bayonetta, for example... and was that because the game was simply fun and engaging, or was it because Bayonetta was totally sexed up (would guys find the game as appealing if she hadn't been?) I don't know. Is being sexually available and appealing an absolute must for a female character in the gaming world? I wonder what gamers would think if we replaced all these perfect-looking young women characters with average-looking average aged and sexually unavailable ones...

There are exceptions, I'm not saying all games are like this. But the trend is definitely that women are often there as side characters and they have to appear sexually available, unless they're a villain. In which case they're often still made to look sexy. Check out the Locust Queen in GOW2. Lol.

 

[Vampi]

Angel Yes, sex does sell. But why do more often then not, the sex that is being sold is mostly for the male demographic?

Sure alot of guys might say "Oh well, women have Final Fantasy with the androgynous pretty boy?" But i'm not one of those. I want my character to actually look like there gender. Even though sum people might argue about this, Dante does look like a man. But everytime a female gamers expresses just the same level of, i guess you could say "lust", for Dante as would a male gamer would express lust for say Lara Croft or any of the DOA girs. The male gamers automatically say "Oh he's so gay" like we're suppose to be ashamed of liking him, even though when we say to the male gamer about how slutty the female game character looks, they always retort with "Well you're jealous" or "You must be fat and ugly".

Its just everytime a character is not-so-likely made for us, they're mostly androgynous and look nothing like men. Also its become popular now for male gamers to spaz out about Nathan Drake. Even though there's a mod or unlockable costume that makes Nathan look obese. Sumthing you'd never see for a female game character. Besides, Nathan Drake is more average man looking then exotic looking male character like Dante.

Yesterday i commented on Gametrailers.com on the video of Trip in her Robot costume. Mind you, her costume isn't that bad. But one of the commentators showed this pic http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Xc2myJQ-e...IV_Machine_Cyborg_BeautiShot_by_Bogdanbl4.jpg

And i called out that the "costume" or whatever it is, was ugly. I immediately got alot of thumbs down in just 2 minutes. Right now, the thumb downs that i've received as of now is 27. If you're interested to see the video in which i commented on and also the read the juvenile commentators here ya go http://www.gametrailers.com/video/dlc-costumes-enslaved/704263#comments_top

Sumone also replied to me and i replied to them back. And i got 5 thumbs up...even though i think every thought i was talking about Trip's costume not about the pic i just showed you.

Lexy Its true that alot of film makers and game makers are predominantly male. But remember the Jade Raymond incident?

The only female game developer i look up to is Amy Hennig (she worked on the Uncharted and Legacy of Kain series). But women like her are few and far between. We never hear of the average looking women in the game industry (Jade Raymond is a beautiful women, but i can't help that Ubisoft exploited her because of her beauty. Thus she got totally disrespected by male gamers and from now on we don't see many pics of her).

Yes, gaming has become mainstream. That can be good and bad. With this generation of games being more focus on graphics then on gameplay. I can't help but think that game developers just focus to much on the pretty and not much on the narrative. Thus we get eye candy like Bayonetta and Kazumi from Dead or Alive.

But at the same time i have to perceive that game developers even lack disrespect towards there male audience. Game developers must think that every single male gamer just amounts to horny teenage boy who has no need for great narrative or deep characters. Thus we're stuck with the stigma of female game characters looking like Playboy playmates.

Also i would like to know. Do you think men are objectified to the same degree as women?

 

[moseslmpg]

I don't think men are really objectified at all, tbh.

Sure, the men portrayed in games are idealized and muscular and all that, but they aren't objectified in that they are treated as real characters.

The difference between men and women here is that, while it makes sense for a heroic male to be muscular because it indicates his strength and virility (muscles require work to build), and it makes sense for him to have armor and a general badass personality, the same is not true for women. For some reason, they tend to wear less armor than men, and their bare skin/sex appeal seems to be subconsciously correlated with her worth or power, which doesn't make sense because female secondary sexual characteristics develop on their own without the need for working on them.

Until they have a male character whose only purpose is to be eye candy, who is romping around in a speedo and covered in butter, then I'd say men are not objectified.

It isn't a bad thing for a character to have sex appeal, but it is bad if that is their only role. This is especially weird, as Lexy pointed out, with villainesses and non-human characters (hint: mammals are the only things that should have boobs, Mass Effect/George Lucas/Everybody). I suspect that this has old roots in the Church's labeling of women and sex as evil or taboo.

Lexy: You have good points. I think the sexual availability is definitely a result of the wish fulfillment aspect of games. These kind of women don't exist in the real world, and that is precisely why men want them in games so they can interact with them without the need to treat them as human. I wonder what is going to happen when AI gets to the point where it is indistinguishable from human intelligence...Maybe Bayonetta will file a sexual harassment suit against PG?

I'd say women are objectified as well because it is simply easier to objectify them, since female humans have persistent breasts and they have more prominent secondary sexual characteristics which appear to be superfluous outside the context of child rearing. Guys' secondary sexual characteristics tend to be more pragmatic, so it is difficult to separate them from their primary use and objectify them.

 

[HarbingerOfChaos]

I love titties that's why.


tit+anything divided by the number of however many dicks are present.


Basically it's a dick to tit ratio.

I'll explain.


The better the quality of the tits/how much of them are showing increases the quality of something.

Dicks decrease the quality.

So in order for something to be quality there has too be bigger-better-nakeder titties.

We don't want no penis fest do we?

 

[The dark knight]

We all knew this would happen..considering who made the PS3. http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/uncyclopedia/images/6/69/SecretNaziPS3.jpg

The PS3 is awesome anyway.

 

[DreadnoughtDT]

We all knew this would happen..considering who made the PS3. http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/uncyclopedia/images/6/69/SecretNaziPS3.jpg

The PS3 is awesome anyway.

I've got PS3, 360, and Wii, so it really doesn't matter cuz I can get any game I want now. XP

Women are pretty objectified, unfortunately. Where are all the badasses like Lara Croft?

Although giving Samus emotion in Other M wasn't a bad idea, they just kind of... Executed it a bit wrong, what with the stiff narration. I mean, of all the times to drop Jennifer Hale as the voice actor, they had to do it NOW, when Samus actually speaks instead of screaming and grunting? Smart move Nintendo, way to shoot yourself in the foot.

 

[The crazy demon]

Woman are objectified in game(bayyonetta is one of them).

And Vampi to answer your question males are objectified but not like women.

I wont remove this statement until we see a Dante in a costume without his coat and being covered of butter.

 

[Vampi]

The Crazy Demon: You should read Moseslmpg last post. Men aren't as objectified in the same way as women.

 

[Meg]

Men may not be portrayed realistically, but that doesn't mean they are degraded like women in games. In fact, most men in games are superhuman or in the military both of which would require muscle. So I guess they are portrayed realistically. XD Women on the other hand. :dry: There are some exceptions to the rule. Elena from Uncharted and Lightning for example.

 

[DreadnoughtDT]

Men may not be portrayed realistically, but that doesn't mean they are degraded like women in games. In fact, most men in games are superhuman or in the military both of which would require muscle. So I guess they are portrayed realistically. XD Women on the other hand. :dry: There are some exceptions to the rule. Elena from Uncharted and Lightning for example.

Has Lara Croft been degraded any? I haven't followed the Tomb Raider series closely enough to tell...

 

[Vampi]

GOW has remained a male oriented kind of game with its muscular yet angry main lead Kratos. GOW conveys sumwhat on how juvenile and still stuck in teenage boy fantasy mode the whole gaming industry feeds on. Take the just released info about the new PSP GOW sex mini game. http://playstationlifestyle.net/2010/09/12/god-of-war-ghost-of-sparta-sex-mini-game-detailed/

As you can see, the mini game is just as useless as ever and shameless. It provides nothing to Kratos character beside making him look like a sex fiend. Kratos started out as a person who wanted revenge for the murder of his family (yeah by his hands but whatever).

But now, since these sex mini games were introduce, they treat the females in the games as nothing but fodder for sex and meaningless. This is sumthing that's prevalent in alot of games with female characters. Women are the one's either treated as sum trophy or sexual object.

Sure there are sum females in GOW that pay a pivotal role sumwhat (Athena, Hera and Pandora...though Pandora is more a child though). But still, using this gratuitous sex "gameplay" aspect in GOW is so juvenile and makes Kratos looks like sum 13 yr olds vision of what a cool, "mature" man should act like.

I just have to wonder, while women are being treated as sexual distractions in games, and on how poor the lack of perception is imbued on sex in games, don't these same game developers insult male gamers intelligence with this stuff?

But then again, sum men or "boys" i would rather call them feed the ever growing troll that is sexism in video games.

 

[cheezMcNASTY]

pic related (and likely posted on these boards before)

Spoiler

 

[DreadnoughtDT]

Man, I didn't realize Ryu was such an ass. But yeah, that pretty much sums up what happens... Make a woman a lead character, and she flaunts everything. Very rarely does this not happen (Lara Croft and Samus Aran come to mind). And then male characters "have" to act macho and crap.

And if we reverse that? Hoo boy would people go crazy. Too bad people are letting this slip into being the norm...

 

[Vampi]

Poor Nariko. I actually liked her. She was a good female lead unlike Bayo. Bayo only has sex appeal to her character, her game is fun, but Bayo is shallow as dirt (much prefer Jeanne).

BTW, Heavenly Sword's ending is so sad.

 

[moseslmpg]

Bayonetta isn't exactly the poster girl for women's lib, you know. Nariko was fine IMO, from what I saw of her.

As for Lara and Samus, well they certainly aren't exceptions to the rule anymore. With Zero Mission (and the zero imagination suit), the badass bounty hunter we know and love died. Although Lara Croft has always been, shall we say, chesty, I don't think that was ever a part of the game, so maybe it isn't so bad.

You know, it may just be that since the industry is dominated by men, they simly don't know how to create a female character that doesn't fulfill some kind of unconscious desire on their part. Certainly, all these macho men represent a desire to be macho, and as we know, when a bunch of people get together, their collective Shadow tends to take over. I'll be the first to admit that I don't really know how to create a female heroine, since I'm a guy and don't really know what the world of women is like.

Edit: GOW should maybe consider growing up. If they are going to try and be mature, don't treat the sex as something naughty or whatever, actually show it, Right now they seem like 13 year old boys giggling while they look at a playboy they found under their older brother's bed. The sex minigame maybe made sense in the first game to establish Kratos as a "man" (since real men don't do foreplay and know that sex involves using the right button combinations at the right time), but now it is just superfluous and juvenile.

 

[cheezMcNASTY]

i'm trying to brainstorm of some games that i don't think convey female or male characters with sexism.

one game that does come to mind with female characters who aren't all girly would have to be jet set radio future. i mean sure the art style doesn't have a lot of room for it, but they were designed and behaved just like the male characters. no attempts at being shapely, or clothing that ALMOST gives players a peek when you do that trick from the right angle.

tony hawk as well (only sports games are coming to mind, there may be a pattern here), in the original elissa steamer probably had the most badass trick in the game: the front flip.

NO WAIT there IS something to be said for Halo. sure, there's cortana. but a lot of people look past keys - the female commander in the second game. she wasn't a helpless girl drawn from connecting large bubbles, she was tough as nails. also, all the female spartans were on par with the male ones. and can anyone say KAT?