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Angel and Demon. where the human part came from

"What are you getting at?"

Like I said to Absent Nova, if you want to believe that Dante seriously has no weaknesses and has no tradeoff, then more power to you.

Also, they're including kryptonite in the Batman v. Superman: Class Action. I'm going to say this again, supernatural strength or no, magic is still a factor, and both Superman and Dante are weak against them.

Doomsday and Darkseid may have had enough strength to break through Superman's skin, but that only goes to show that Mundus is just as powerful as they are, even without his Portal of Immortality.

Why can't we just accept that heart wounds are weaknesses? Dante lost it when he tore his own chest open, Vergil died (and thus, got rid of one of his weaknesses by absorbing the power of hell and falling from grace -- becoming a Black Angel -- Nero Angelo -- that's D0NN1E's official name for him) from his heart wound, and Mundus killed Eva by ripping her own out.

Mundus almost killed Dante through the same method as well. So, whether you believe that Dante has no weaknesses or not, Mundus managed to bypass his defenses (and thus is capable of doing damage against him) in both Immortal and Vulnerable Non-portal Mode.

So... in the end, while whatever bodily harm may not count as "weaknesses" in the same sense as "kryptonite" does, it still hurts him, and I wouldn't be surprised if Angel weapons did even more damage against Hybrid-Demon-Nephilims. [Camephilim]

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No offense, but the fact that they said that "only a Nephilim can kill another one puts this sort of thing into "Twilight" territory.

STOP. I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT THE ATTITUDE ASPECT.

I'm talking about the fact that Twilight said that only one vampire can kill another, despite the fact that they're weak from electricity, fire, and beheadings (but not heart wounds, ironically -- maybe DmC demons are invincible against beheadings?).

And if vamps have "no weaknesses", then how come they haven't taken over yet? It's the same thing with DmC --

Why haven't the Nephilim taken over? How were they defeated? Were the demons (or the Angels who may or may not have turned against them) so good combat-wise that they defeated the Nephilim through skill alone?

Wow. I can't even... no. There has to be some other explanation besides, "No weaknesses except the fact that they get hurt through supernatural strength anyway."
 
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Zer0 said:
Also, they're including kryptonite in the Batman v. Superman: Class Action. I'm going to say this again, supernatural strength or no, magic is still a factor, and both Superman and Dante are weak against them.
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Well, it makes sense that a few shards made it to Earth with the babyship, just not the vast amount of it that always seems to end up appearing everywhere else.

Zer0 said:
Why can't we just accept that heart wounds are weaknesses? Dante lost it when he tore his own chest open, Vergil died (and thus, got rid of one of his weaknesses by absorbing the power of hell and falling from grace -- becoming a Black Angel -- Nero Angelo -- that's D0NN1E's official name for him) from his heart wound, and Mundus killed Eva by ripping her own out.

Mundus almost killed Dante through the same method as well. So, whether you believe that Dante has no weaknesses or not, Mundus managed to bypass his defenses (and thus is capable of doing damage against him) in both Immortal and Vulnerable Non-portal Mode.

So... in the end, while whatever bodily harm may not count as "weaknesses" in the same sense as "kryptonite" does, it still hurts him, and I wouldn't be surprised if Angel weapons did even more damage against Hybrid-Demon-Nephilims. [Camephilim]
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But bodily harm is just that - bodily harm. It doesn't count as a weakness, because a weakness is something unique to them, something that "ignores defenses", so to speak. Being in a physical body governed by the (general) rules of the universe, everything is susceptible to an extent, with the supernatural aspects of any given subject being what makes them more resilient to certain attacks, but also what helps strengthen certain attacks as well.

Not sure what this talk of "camephilim" is though :x

Zer0 said:
No offense, but the fact that they said that "only a Nephilim can kill another one puts this sort of thing into "Twilight" territory.
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I don't remember it ever being said that only a Nephilim could kill another, and it's obviously not true. If it was it would have been entirely boring for the narrative to know that Dante was never in any real danger.

Zer0 said:
Why haven't the Nephilim taken over? How were they defeated? Were the demons (or the Angels who may or may not have turned against them) so good combat-wise that they defeated the Nephilim through skill alone?
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Remember, Nephilim aren't some prevalent race. Their creation is so incredibly rare that there aren't a lot of them to begin with, and considering they are seen as an abomination, the nephilim and their parents are done away with. Also consider that they are killed at a very young age.

Zer0 said:
Wow. I can't even... no. There has to be some other explanation besides, "No weaknesses except the fact that they get hurt through supernatural strength anyway."
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Dunno what to tell you man. They are susceptible to death because they exist in bodies, especially in the Human realm where they have to be housed in a human body.
 
TWOxACROSS said:
They are susceptible to death because they exist in bodies, especially in the Human realm where they have to be housed in a human body.
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This is probably where it would make the most sense -- it's the MoS "atmospheric" argument, only with a supernatural pretext. Don't have time to elaborate, but I guess I can agree with more-or-less everything you said. So long.

Cambion + Nephilim = Nephilion or Cambionim -- however, since I don't like those two words, I decided to create my own term: "Camephilim".

And if someone were two quarters human plus one quarter demon plus one quarter Angel [DmC Nero?] -- "Camephilimbion" -- because I like to shove as many words in there as I can.
 
So the question still remains, where does the human part come into play if they are offspring of an angel and a demon, neither of which are human (or even partially human). They look humanoid, but there's a major difference between looking humanoid (a sting-ray looks humanoid when you turn it upside down) and being part human.

Unless there's some far off backstory about how human DNA came to blend with angelic or demonic in their lineage, it makes no sense how they can have any human DNA in them.
 
Dante's Stalker said:
Unless there's some far off backstory about how human DNA came to blend with angelic or demonic in their lineage, it makes no sense how they can have any human DNA in them.
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Yeah, instead of calling Rebellion/Neutral Yamato human weapons, they should've just said "Nephilim". But then it would create confusion -- I meant that in the sense that if they called the original weapon "Angel/demon", then why don't they work on colored enemies or have elemental effects (Neutral Yamato is just that... neutral until you activate a stance)?

So, it's only "human" in the most metaphorical sense; Angel + demon = benevolence + evil. [Humanity]

In any case, Rebellion and Yamato were creations of Sparda and Eva out of necessity -- they couldn't wield each others' weapons, so they decided to create two new ones to add to their repertoire.

[Plus the Force Edge, according to D0NN1E -- but the Force Edge is in a completely different different dimension, waiting for a sequel that will never get made. However, D0NN1E never said that it was a fusion of their essences -- that's just speculation on my part -- all we know is that Sparda created both Rebellion and Yamato. So, Sparda made them, but presumably they could only be made with Eva's "blessing".]

So, the question is, why did Bob Barbas have Aquila? Well, I'll just say that he only kept it as a trophy (and maybe to augment his own shield energy since he couldn't use its power directly -- either that, or he's a former angel who's fallen from grace -- which is why he keeps his twisted mantra, "Just doin' "god's" work.") because we never see him using it.

This would also explain why the demons would use colored enemies: they used the red ones to guard their lairs, and the blue ones they captured from heaven and twisted them for their own purposes, ensuring loyalty (and thus, no desertion amongst the demon ranks -- I wouldn't be surprised if Heaven used a similar tactic) from their subordinates.

So, how to capture an Angelic enemy if they can't use Angelic weapons? Well, the only answer I can come up with, is that Mundus and the other demon kings were powerful enough to capture them, but since they weren't powerful enough to destroy them, they decided to put them to work, instead.

... Makes total sense. Absolutely.
 
Dante's Stalker said:
So the question still remains, where does the human part come into play if they are offspring of an angel and a demon, neither of which are human (or even partially human). They look humanoid, but there's a major difference between looking humanoid (a sting-ray looks humanoid when you turn it upside down) and being part human.

Unless there's some far off backstory about how human DNA came to blend with angelic or demonic in their lineage, it makes no sense how they can have any human DNA in them.
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It's the human vessels. They are straight up human bodies housing the metaphysical embodiment of a supernatural entity. The human body makes them tangible, and also susceptible to death. We totally witnessed the same thing with Killing Face - it was demonic spawn. However, it was still a fetus, so it shared Lilith's skin, but still had a metaphysical form in Limbo.

You also have to remember that no one actually says Dante is human, just human-looking. Vergil even constantly reminds Dante that he's not human.

Malik Robinson said:
When were they ever referred to as "human weapons"?
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They aren't in any official capacity. It's used as a term for "neutral" by players and that's about it.
 
TWOxACROSS said:
It's the human vessels. They are straight up human bodies housing the metaphysical embodiment of a supernatural entity. The human body makes them tangible, and also susceptible to death. We totally witnessed the same thing with Killing Face - it was demonic spawn. However, it was still a fetus, so it shared Lilith's skin, but still had a metaphysical form in Limbo.

You also have to remember that no one actually says Dante is human, just human-looking. Vergil even constantly reminds Dante that he's not human.



They aren't in any official capacity. It's used as a term for "neutral" by players and that's about it.
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But that makes me wonder, why the human vessels at all, and HOW? Like physically, how the heck did they find human vessels? The story they give us is a straight forward 'then they had twins' but how did they come by the human vessels? Unless angels carry their pregnancies differently and they don't actually grow their babies inside their womb? OR maybe Sparda carried them? Like a demon seahorse doing all the hard labour (hur hur hur)
I am being quite rhetorical with my question. I can imagine a few ways how they came upon human vessels. Might make a good, creepy and morbid fanfiction.

Anyway.
Thanks for clearing up about the human part, anyhow. Especially the highlighted part.
 
Dante's Stalker said:
But that makes me wonder, why the human vessels at all, and HOW? Like physically, how the heck did they find human vessels? The story they give us is a straight forward 'then they had twins' but how did they come by the human vessels? Unless angels carry their pregnancies differently and they don't actually grow their babies inside their womb? OR maybe Sparda carried them? Like a demon seahorse doing all the hard labour (hur hur hur)
I am being quite rhetorical with my question. I can imagine a few ways how they came upon human vessels. Might make a good, creepy and morbid fanfiction.

Anyway.
Thanks for clearing up about the human part, anyhow. Especially the highlighted part.
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It's because the human vessels are the what allow them to exist tangibly in the earthly realm. It houses their metaphysical self, like a soul almost. without it, they can't be there. That's why the demons use subliminal messages from Limbo, and sympathizers from the real world. It's like...a space suit. You can't go out into space without one, and...then...you have a kid and a tiny little babby space suit is made for them. Oh the imagery.

Anyway, that's about as much as can be figured out with all that we know from DmC. Somehow, metaphysical soul bits get passed on just like other genetic material, possibly because it's not just that the soul sits somewhere in the human vessel, but it exists in every fiber of their tangible being.

How do they get a human vessel? Could be possession, could be that they make them somehow. I'd be more inclined to believe some sort of possession going on, and with the demons' campaign, they've made plenty of complacent and docile vessel weak enough for possessing. In demonology, that's a demon's prime way into a "host", being scared, emotionally weak, or otherwise complacent is like a big open door.
 
What if they are just in disguise 'cause the last time dante and vergil fought mundus, mundus wasn't in vessel. and if mundus and lilith both are in vessels so why mundus baby didn't turned into a human besides he turned into a ugly piece of s***. mundus child and dante in the same situation right? both of there parents have vessels.
 
dreadnought_dante said:
What if they are just in disguise 'cause the last time dante and vergil fought mundus, mundus wasn't in vessel. and if mundus and lilith both are in vessels so why mundus baby didn't turned into a human besides he turned into a ugly piece of s***. mundus child and dante in the same situation right? both of there parents have vessels.
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The game makes mention of vessels, and talk from the devs before the game released talked about the significance of Limbo in that the demons couldn't use their magic when in the real world, thus relying on dragging enemies into Limbo, as the human vessels that allowed them to exist in the human realm also cut them off from their magic. This is the exact reason why the Hellgate was so important to Mundus - it let him keep a connection to his magic by creating a sort of umbilical connection to Hell, and made him essentially immortal, because his metaphysical being wasn't inside the vessel.

Mundus child was just a fetus in the human world, but inside Limbo, it took on a form of its own.

dreadnought_dante said:
so why not dante
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Because Dante lived his entire life until then not knowing anything deeper about himself than what he could figure out on his own. Not until he unlocked his Devil Trigger did he start tapping into something deeper. Much in the same way that classic Dante couldn't trigger right away, and when he does, he takes on a slightly different form.

On the other hand, Mundus' kid is a completely pure-blood, and the kid of a demon king. Chances are high that he's more than a little special than regular demons.
 
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